Antidepressants - Good or bad

[James73]

Hey all, I saw a program on tv a few months back that discussed the issue of whether Antidepressants are good for us or not, it came to the conclusion that they weren't and I just wanted to see what everyone else thinks on the subject.

My view, partially effected by this tv prog, is that if we are depressed using drugs to make us happy does not solve the CAUSE of the depression rather the SYMPTOM of depression. You may say what's the difference as long you are happy? Well say someone is depressed there is a reason for this depression, they are in a situation which makes them unhappy. This has come about by others and environmental factors making this person unhappy combined with the fact that this person has allowed themselves to be in a situation for people to make them unhappy (obviously some situations are harder to dodge then others and some situations we dont know we're in until many years down the line, plus environmental circumstances are normally foisted upon us from birth).

So if we take antidepressants we become happy again, or we take some semblance of happiness that the drug companies define as a normal level of certain chemicals in the brain - seeing as none of us will perfectly fit the "normal" model it is forcing us to be happy against our will and against nature. So we've now taken the medicine and we are happy but our lives our still the same, we have not confronted the things that have been making us unhappy rather we have swept these issues under the carpet in a fog of chemical induced happiness. What I am really trying to get at is if we take anitdepressants how can we ever face our fears and become stronger people? How can we change our lives for the better if we are happy even though we should be unhappy? If someone is making our lives hell and we are on antidepressants because of it are we taking drugs to enable this person to abuse us more and more, are we taking drugs to supply the abuser with an endless Narcissistic supply if they are an N??

It seems to me some people in extreme dire straights will benefit in short term from antidepressants, to get them over any suicidal thoughts and the like, however for the majority of people who are depressed antidepressants will only seek to make us mindless zombies for people to abuse and will make us incapable of having the motivation to change our lives for the better because we think we are happy due to the drugs.

Not sure if this all makes sense but I feel drug companies are not to be trusted at all and doctors only prescribe what they are told to, sometimes from the drug companies themselves!
What do you all think?
James

[poetprose]

Well I will never touch another SSRI again, I was on them for 2 to 3 weeks, and went manic on them...... my pdoc said that i am one of the ones who can not take them, ( duh no brainer), 

Besides I am dealing with the causes, not the symptoms, I do believe that I am better , and it is because of all the hard work I am doing, evaluating my attitudes, changing the ones that are not healthy for growth, working each day with an attitude of gratitude

I am stubborn to not allow misery to rob me of a good quality of life........... I've seen it to much, this is one area where I can be thankful to know my father in law............ he is what happens when you allow pitty and woe is me to be the captain of the ship

I honestly believe that if people who suffer from depression, like myself can get ahold and really grasp this thought -"WE ONLY DO THIS TRIP ONCE"...........and really believe it!!, they will get motivated to change, and in that change they will see that the drugs are only the tip of the ice burg and that the real work has to be done inside......... the anti depressants can not do that, all they are designed to treat the symptoms of the depression NEVER the cause................... I have decided to die "living" not die "dieing"...... make sense?


So James good post and i totally agree with you!

[Portia]

James

I think I pretty much agree. Have you read Prozac Diary? I read it and felt as though the writer had resigned themselves to a life on meds. Maybe that works for them (maybe they've changed since?).

Maybe it's up to each person to decide for themselves just how much the pain hurts at any given time.

Education about how these things work and how we can each work towards managing our mental health - that might help. In the UK it seems to me as though we expect the medical profession to cure everything. And mental health is only now just beginning to be publicly discussed without shame.

That's another thing. When you're depressed (or grieving as CB says), you might feel SHAME because you're supposed to be HAPPY! and that makes you more likely to say yes to the magic pills that will enable you to fit in and pursue that elusive happiness factor........while being even more depressed or anxious inside.

Great. I feel angry and fed up today. Brilliant! I'm human

Humour works for me James

[Overcomer]

I argued against them because I was not depressed but my doc gave me lexapro To remove some of my stress.  Well, they made me gain weight but I do have glimmers of REAL happiness and optimism.

[Portia]

Spot on CB.

Another area of medication management, used a fair bit i think here, is that in elderly peoples homes. We've had numerous homes in the news for physical abuse too.

The shame thing, I read it in Viktor Frankl and it was one of those things that made instant perfect sense to me. Being depressed or unhappy is seen as socially unacceptable, instead of being part of being human. And let's face it, there are enough things in life to be unhappy about!

More weeping in the streets called for! More hugs for all, more real connections.

Instead of have a nice/good day, maybe we could say: have a real day!


Hi Kelly

How much of your progress would you attribute to the lexapro  - maybe that's a difficult chicken/egg question. Do you have breaks in taking it?

[Overcomer]

that is a good question.  I have been on it for 6 months now and I am cutting back to every other day because of the weight gain.  I have been in a bad way during this time but have just recently felt optimistic.  I have been climbing out of this pit for so long and maybe the meds helped?  I do not know, I only know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for me in several arenas.

[Portia]

Thanks kelly. It sounds as though you're taking the control too, rather than the attitude of the meds controlling you, which seems important to me (speaking as one who doesn't know what she's talking about, never taken this type of med, just witnessed it).

I'm glad about that light

[James73]

Hey guys, yeh I like the notion about fitting in socially, ie be happy or you'll make me feel depressed syndrome, Portia love the attitude and Im right there with you, if I wanna be a moody grumpy turd for a while I will be and if people cant deal with that then tough!  I also feel these meds in general can be used to help people out of a hole as long as they are also willing to work on themselves too as Portia says, if drugs are needed then effort needs to be made so that they wont be needed again much like OC has done - good for you OC!  I did try some anti's a while back and much like miss Poet they didn't agree with me, I felt awful and got total insomnia, I was lucky to get an hours sleep a night and it took me ages to get back to rights again, it was funny when I began to deal with my internal feelings I looked depressed on the outside which is perfectly normal but my doc was quick to point that out to me as if it was socially unacceptable or as though it was an afront to them and others that I was depressed, thinking back I should have said well if you was me at the moment you'd be sodding depressed too!  Ah doctor's... don't listen, don't think  and don't care, well most of em anyway 

CB youre definitely right about over prescription, doc's arent there to deal with mental probs unless theyre a quack and if someones in their office looking depressed and saying they're depressed they are very willing to deal out the drugs, I've even heard about some doc's having quotas and the like to push some drugs more than others!

Portia youre spot on with the humour thang, its a great depression kicker! 

[Motherless]

I was put on Lexapro also.. took it for quite a while and did help me with anxiety and daily upsets. Things that would drive me nuts in the past wouldn't even make a dent.

It did cause weight gain and did have (excuse me for saying) sexual side effects. This was after I questioned my therapist if it did have these little bonuses. She told me it was a "clean form of Celexa" with little or no side effects. She took it herself and wasn't bothered by it all. That wasn't me at all.

It doesn't upset me now, thinking back that I took it, as it did really help me through some very rough patches with my Nmother. I have been drug free for over a year now.

BUT - please be warned when coming off the drug Lexapro. My therapist started weaning me off of it very slowly and correctly. That didn't stop what happened next.
After finishing the last doses I started having "brain shocks" caused by what is clinically termed discontinuation syndrome .. a feeling of having my head being yanked back, extremely vivid dreams (more like nightmares), and trouble focusing or concentrating. These lasted for a three month period, diminishing over that timeframe very slowly.

Am really not sure I would go back on Lexapro again. I still take Alazopram. It’s a generic form of the tranquilizer Xanex. ... but only on an as-need basis.

[Hopalong]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/05/18/autism_misdiagnosis/

There's a very interesting discussion of Rx in this Salon article from a few days back...the best part is the Letters section, which works almost like a forum. To read them, go to the last page of the article and scroll to the bottom. Once the Letters come up, it helps to select Oldest First.

Hops

[Brigid]

I have only had time to skim through the responses on this thread, but I did want to make some comments.  In my case, which was situational depression, not chronic depression, I found the anti-depressants and also the anti-psychotic drugs that I took for a short time, to be a Godsend.  I was only on the anti-psychotic drugs for a few months, but they restored my appetite which had vanished and caused me to go to 110 lbs.  The inability to eat had made me so weak that functioning at all was difficult.

The anti-depressants (I took Lexapro, after having a very bad experience with Paxil), did not make me foggy or glazed over or happy.  They helped to calm my shaky nerves, to relieve some of the obsessive thoughts and anxiety.  I took the Lexapro for about 7 months until I felt I was over the worst of my depression, then weaned myself off.  I was under the care of a psychiatrist at that time, which I highly recommend for anyone who is taking these kinds of meds.

Different people will have very different reactions to the meds and the dosage.  You need to be monitored by a professional who is aware of the side effects, reactions, and potential problems.  They can make adjustments or changes as they deem necessary, or determine that you do not need them at all.

Brigid

[SilverLining]

I went through four years of treatment on a variety of antidepressants.  At first they seemed like a miracle.  I felt "normal" for the first time in years.  But after 6 six months or so the positive effect started to fade out, and the response from the Dr was to add more chemicals to the mix in order to find the right "balance".   After 4 years and about 50 different chemical cocktails I made the decision on my own to get off the chemicals completely.  It has been 9 years and I wouldn't touch any of that stuff with a 10 foot pole. 

IMO these chemicals might work to "kick start" someone out of a chronic depression but something else is needed to effect a long term cure.  For me the real cure has been strict attention to diet, exercise, and other health matters, along with exploration of psychological issues related to my past in an N-ish household. 

My brother took a different path and has been taking antidepressants for 14 years.  He's 80 pounds overweight, has no energy,  barely functions in an entry level job.    Yet he swears the antidepressants are worthwhile.   I remember a time he wasn't so lethargic, so I have a hard time believing he has been "cured" by these chemicals. 

I read a new theory recently about depression and the neuro chemicals in the brain which fits well with my own experience.  These researchers believe the problem in depression isn't so much in the chemicals themselves (e.g. serotonin, dopamine, e.t.c..)but the way emotions are regulated by the individual.  These emotions are expressed physically, but, not ultimately caused by, a certain balance of chemicals.  Unlike the non-depressed, people prone to depression don't bounce back from the depressing experiences which everybody experiences everyday.  And it might be a learned response. Antidepressant treatment might temporarily kick the depressed into a different chemical balance and different emotional state, but problems in the regulatory system are not addressed.  So the learned responses and depressed states tend to come back.


So did some of us learn to become chronically depressed in our N-ish environments?  It sure seems to fit with my experience.  I don't believe I was depressed in my early years.  But by the time I made a physical escape from my FOO in my late teens/early twenties I was a basket case.   It certainly didn't help that I was "self medicating" with alcohol, tobacco, massive amounts of caffeine and so on.  It wasn't until I gave up on these substances that things started to really improve. 

Peter Breggin has written a couple of interesting books on the subject.  One is titled "Talking Back to Prozac" which is his response to the the popular "Listening to Prozac".  It's seems to me a good idea to investigate both sides of the issue before committing to a long term course of chemical treatment. 

   

 

[Hurt]

I was going to ask my T about getting some... you guys are scaring me a bit!  I was hoping to use something short-term and not get hooked, or gain a bunch of weight.  Do you feel its better to use an AntiD over say a drink at night?

Hurt

[James73]

Hey Hurt, sorry this thread is concerning you although its best to get some facts and ideas about antidepressants before taking the plunge. If you are looking to take them it may be a case of trial and error before you find the one that suits you. I wouldn't recommend a drink to ease depression as Alcohol is a depressant and the high will be replaced by depression the following day. Is there any reason  you need antidepressants at night? Are you having trouble sleeping? There are pills for that too although Ive never taken them, there's also some good herbal remedies plus a thing called 5-Htp which is great for sleep I took it for a year or so when I was having trouble sleeping some years back, good stuff, although again id research it rather than take my word for it as I could be a raving nutter, which im not, but hey you can never be too careful     
 
You also say you want to take them short term although the ones prescribed to me, and Ive heard many are like this, are to be taken for a minimum of 6 months (it may be 3 but I think its 6) and then you have to come off them slowly, so it could be like a 9 or 12 month course minimum, does anyone else know more about this?

[isittoolate]

I was taking Paxil and became more 'anxious' so I switched to Effexor.
I also take Lyrica for neurological pain, plus it is for GAD and fibromyalgia.

Sometimes we can be on a prescription drug for a while and it becomes part of the daily ritual, like brushing one's teeth, so if there is a physical change, aka side effect, one might not suspect the pills one has been taking for 1-2 years.

***I realized my vision was blurring. I was more tired, (although I was low in potassiium) a bit confused, and have swelling of hands and feet.--feet part can be normal problem, but not hands.

I checked Lyrica side effects*** so now the question is--do I stop  all the crap and go back to the pain?

If I stop Effexor as well, will I be who i used to be or just a depressed version of who i now am? The Effexor (any anti-depressant also helped alleviate the pain.)

Perhaps a bullet would help?
xx
Izzy