healing

[Wildflower]

Hi R,

I'm really not trying to upset you, and I'm really sorry if you're shaking because of what I said (I'm shaking a little bit, too, okay?)  If I knew of a way to express how I feel right now without bringing your world crashing down, I would.  You know that, right? And if you read Portia's and Guest's responses, you'll see that they're supporting you, not protecting me, so don't worry that everyone thinks I've made you look bad.  I'm the bad guy here.

But I really feel the need to express my side, okay?  And I really feel as though I'm not being heard right now, but that's okay, isn't it?  I'm not so childish that I think everyone has to know exactly what's going on inside my head.  But I want to give it one more shot.  Maybe ask you questions instead of just explaining how I feel?

So, tough question:

But Wildflower, look, I'm on a sunny ledge here, half way up the mountain. Come and join me do.

Has it occurred to you that we're all sitting here on this field - on the same level - with different 'keys'? With different areas of expertise?  You're good at A, Portia's good at B, CG's good at C, I'm good at D?  As of this morning, I now feel as though you think I'm just a child who doesn't get it, and the real reason you didn't listen to me is that you didn't think I had anything of value to add to our discussions (though I hear you saying that's changed - not trying to take that away from you).  

And I also feel a bit frustrated because I'm telling you that I 'get' the bit about "I'm not trying to hurt you", but you're telling me I don't quite, but I will when I'm higher up the mountain?

Well, I really think that I 'get' it, R, and I'm defensive and protective about it right now.  And insecure.  I'm not saying "You should have known and I'm crying because you didn't."  No.  I'm saying, "Here.  This is a big nerve.  Please don't touch it until I've been allowed to grow some skin around it.  Please let me have the success I've had so far.  Please don't read this very paragraph and then tell me how it's symptomatic of how far I have to go.  Even if that's how you feel, please keep that to yourself until I've got some skin around this issue, okay?"  That's what I need right now, and I think that in this case, I really do know what's best for me.

As I've said to you before, I've never had a problem with what you say and having the spotlight on me.  I'm not saying change. I'm not saying don't turn the spotlight on me. I'm saying, "Please hear me out on this one issue."  And I'm saying, I like to be supportive, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, is there?  I mean, by wanting to be supportive and caring, does that mean to you that I'm weak and lower down the mountain?  Do you think that's necessarily the result of being damaged, instead of something I've worked very hard to 'reclaim'?

Regarding the delegation issue, yes, it's been tough, but again.  I told that story because it's something I feel I've got under my belt.  When my boss said that to me, my feelings of insecurity occurred within a small amount of time, but I got over myself.  I asked him to explain what he meant and where I needed to do more work. And I asked him if I'd been doing what he wanted me to do.  And by doing that, I was able to hear WHY he was saying that, and I was able to explain my reasoning.  He still does that on occasion about other issues (yesterday in fact), but I've learned that he's probably reacting to something I did/said, so I try to get to the bottom of it before letting my feelings go spinning out of control.  Or maybe after my feelings have spun out of control and I've got them settled again.

So please hear me, R.  I'm trying to tell you 1) I get it, 2) being supportive is important to me, 3) I'm feeling a bit talked down to at the moment, and 4) the delegation issue isn't really something I need help with right now.  I'm open to talk about it and share it, though, as long as we're sitting together on this field, on the same level, as friends.

What I'm not saying is that you're wrong and change and you're doing terrible things.  No.  You really are great.  You have great insight at times.  You really, truly are helpful.  And I've learned a lot by talking with you and reading your postings.  And I'll continue to do so no matter how this issue resolves (as long as you don't want me to go away, that is).

Does this make any more sense?

Wildflower

[Wildflower]

I'm removing the content of this post because I think this was coming more from hurt feelings than from a desire to be helpful.  And I'm not entirely sure I was seeing things clearly as opposed to through my own issues.

So I realize this may have been read, and I apologize to those who read it.  I'm not taking it down to hide, but in an apology and in hopes that we can move on.

Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

I thought I would take some time to do what I said in an earlier post about 'integrity'.  I thought I'd try to look at what happened here for me, before I came back in again so I'm writing this offline and posting before I read and get too frightened to think!!  Sorry to be such a wet!!  

I saw myself reply in the agony of the moment.  Yes, it was 'agonising'.  I replied with my heart open.  As open as could be (not necessarily a mistake right here and now - but definitely a mistake generally in the world at large, and especially with my mother - Nina Evans applies) but it shows a pattern, a repeated pattern.  

Now what was the point of having my heart open?   So you could see what I 'intended'.  Well, that should be OK but I'm not so sure that it helped you or me, truthfully, when perhaps both of us had experienced the pain of something clashing, some firework lit somewhere in our hearts, before one or both of us had touched down to our usual 'place in the sun' rather than 'place in the heat (of the moment)'.

But you see, I get an internal conflict here.  I'd feel I was letting you down if I wasn't completely honest with you.  It would be 'easy' to walk away.  Shut down the computer.  Literally walk away. Stay away for a couple of days.  I didn't intend to 'forge relationships' here but, well, it happened and it doesn't seem right to just stay away when I feel like it any more.

I wanted to walk away a few days ago - not for any 'bad' reason but just because I'd had enough.  I didn't know for how long.  An hour, a day, a week, a month.  But loyalty and obligation bring me back at least to explain - and once I'm here to 'explain' then I'm hooked back in again.

It's loyalty and obligation which also bring me back to my mother - but that's not a bad thing.  Just for once, I'll not think there's something wrong with me!  It's when the person I'm loyal to is (probably) bad for me that the problems start.  But I don't think it's a bad thing to allow loyalty and 'obligation' bring me back in here when the apple cart has got upset.  That's also why I will stay with my husband.

But perhaps there are better ways of 'staying in'.  Of being more 'detached' as Portia says, stepping much further back than I did.  Not right back.  Just 'further' back.  As I am already doing with my husband.

It's difficult to know what else I could have said differently.  Let go, find 'humility' and play the empathy card perhaps.  But I don't know what empathy to feel across the miles.  I can only make assumptions.  So then, why not 'just' share the feelings and thoughts I have as honestly as possible.  The alternative is to say just nothing at all.

I think I've said before that I've no discrimination.  It wasn't 'allowed' when I was a child.  And so it's hard for me to do.  Treat everybody the same, all or not at all.  'Context' is all.  One is allowed to discern and discriminate and choose.  I'm not sure I chose - I reacted.  I'll try to remember that next time I'm riding down that bumpy track at 50mph.  Perhaps I could just ask.  'If this is hurting, what do you want me to do that's different/to make it better?'

The other thing is about my use of the spotlight, zooming in on someone else to deflect from myself.  I won't say that I don't.  But what I will say is that I do it in order to say - "OK, enough of me, I've taken up a lot of time and attention.  And now I must make reparation.  Here is a gift.".  But at that time and in that state (at the end of something that's 'all about me') I've noticed that I do it very poorly indeed, very inadequately, very clumsily.  The last time I 'almost' did that, I chose not to after all.  So I must be moving forward a little in this stormy sea of pain and change and confusion - no rudder, no map and a lifetime of bewildering relationships.
R

Wildflower - I did see the first sentence of your post above as I came in.  And you're not the bad guy.  I can't imagine CG or Portia wishing to suggest that for a minute.  There are no bad guys here at all.  And I guess in reassuring you, then I am reassuring me cos I then have to include me as well.  We're all just struggling.  All of us just the same.  I just feel so agonisingly dreadful when someone is hurting - just as I think you do.  We express it differently, live it differently.  But I'll know next time that that is 'all' I am feeling and I'll look more closely next time and try to find a better way than 'agony'!!!  

I'll come back later or tomorrow to read some more but I won't post straight away just because I was posting until 1.30am last night   and I have two working days ahead of me, a day of preparation and a day doing something I've not done before.  I'm sure I'll survive but I'm now stoking up some energy. Take care. I'm taking a deep breath now - woosh, off you go message - land the right way up and make everything better please.  
R

[Wildflower]

Now what was the point of having my heart open? So you could see what I 'intended'. Well, that should be OK but I'm not so sure that it helped you or me, truthfully, when perhaps both of us had experienced the pain of something clashing, some firework lit somewhere in our hearts, before one or both of us had touched down to our usual 'place in the sun' rather than 'place in the heat (of the moment)'.

I think I've said before that I've no discrimination. It wasn't 'allowed' when I was a child. And so it's hard for me to do. Treat everybody the same, all or not at all.

The other thing is about my use of the spotlight, zooming in on someone else to deflect from myself. I won't say that I don't. But what I will say is that I do it in order to say - "OK, enough of me, I've taken up a lot of time and attention. And now I must make reparation. Here is a gift.".

Okay, R, I hear you.  I’m sorry I got so upset, and I’m sorry that I upset you in the process.  In the future, if you ever hit a nerve again (if you’re not too mad or upset to talk to me again, that is), I’ll try to do a better job of sending up flares before getting too upset.

Take care,
Wildflower

[Anonymous]

Hi R,

I'm really not trying to upset you, and I'm really sorry if you're shaking because of what I said (I'm shaking a little bit, too, okay?)  If I knew of a way to express how I feel right now without bringing your world crashing down, I would.  You know that, right? And if you read Portia's and Guest's responses, you'll see that they're supporting you, not protecting me, so don't worry that everyone thinks I've made you look bad.  I'm the bad guy here.

Hey baby, you're not speakin' for me are ya'. You're never the bad guy.  No bad guys here.   I admire you the way you've stood your ground, and   maintained communication. No, you are in no way, ever a bad guys. The bad guys are out there in the big wide world somewhere, unfortunately, but none here, and particularly not on this thread. What do you reckon.  I'm sorry my silence on this topic has made you feel that's what I think, cause I don't.

I just wanted to give you and Rosencrantz room without my interruption, I didn't feel I could add anything, and I'd probably just make light dumb jokes when you're trying to resolve something important. Like a saggy tit joke or something about testosterone and balls. Or Gosh!! Forbid!! Maybe bore everybody to death, go right off topic with a mother story.

So ((((HIG))), and sorry    pleease

I'm open to talk about it and share it, though, as long as we're sitting together on this field, on the same level, as friends.

What I'm not saying is that you're wrong and change and you're doing terrible things.  No.  You really are great.  You have great insight at times.  You really, truly are helpful.  And I've learned a lot by talking with you and reading your postings.  And I'll continue to do so no matter how this issue resolves (as long as you don't want me to go away, that is).

Does this make any more sense?

Wildflower

I think the last thing Rosencrantz would want is for you to go away. shock horror  
OH MY GOSH. And I would absolutely positively desperately hate it.
No Wildflower toread or talk to.        
Don't you dare.
I'm being assertive. hahhahahahaahahahaha
You get back here right now young miss. hahahahahahahahahah
 
No I'll stop now cause I'm serious now. I saw your last post and hope it's not hurting anymore, and it's all better now.

CG

[rosencrantz]

Hi Wildflower - Hi!!!

I just came back in and started reading.  I didn't realise that CG and Portia had posted whilst I'd been thinking and writing.  

And I started re-reading the post I posted back there and I'm happy to say...

I'm a twit!  I'm a twit!  I'm a twit!!!!!!!

I'm reading that long post and I'm thinking shut up you silly woman - just shut UP!!!  I can't even bear to read it again.  I know I posted some stuff that (could have been) relevant.  I know I posted what was there truthfully in my mind.  But, really!!!  REALLY!  Never again!!!!!  

I'm a twit!  I'm a twit!  I'm a twit!!!!!!!

And I'm happy to so declare it!!!

Sorry for being a twit!!!

Need another T shirt, CG!!!  Twit in residence (occasionally!)

And the integrity bit - yes, it's important not to rely on others to make me feel better (or not!) but I can't do it on my own (not yet anyway).  And it's more likely to be one of those things I need to reverse.  Allow myself to 'need' and rely on others.

And on the back of the T shirt - Tortured soul seeks hairshirt for love and companionship.  

And I'm not giving anybody any more searing insight for at least, oh, I guess I could hold myself back for maybe a day, maybe two!  I'm not sure I'd be able to keep myself under control for much longer!!!      

Oh and Wildflower, I'm not 'mad', well not 'mad' mad anyway!!! JPN,  maybe.      Worn myself out again!!!  
TTFN
R

[Wildflower]

Rosencrantz, Portia, CG?  I'd like you to meet my tough outer shell.  Outer Shell?  Meet Rosencrantz, Portia, and CG.

She's going back to sleep now.

I'll be back in a little while...gotta, um, catch up on a little work here     .

(((((((HIGS))))))))
Wildflower

Ahem, Outer Shell?  Do you have anything you to want to say (nudge nudge)?  

((higs))

Well, it's a start, anyway...  

[Anonymous]

Hiya    Wildflower's Outa shell, you're cool too!

(((BIG HIG)))

CG

[Portia]

Higs everybody, may I splatter some thoughts/feels down? Then I want to leave for the day and go shopping…ha ha ha ha (I don’t shop). Why am I laughing like CG? It’s infectious. Is there a vaccine?

R: the mountain freaks me out. What was in your head when you wrote it please? You can get a hair-shirt and be a twit if you want to (does it help?) but heck, tell me about that. Right of reply/reverse questioning as always (i.e. have I done the same and you want an explanation?). Ha ha. Just got an image of a torch with a light at both ends.

WF: outer shell is outta shell? Like a Russian Doll, peel peel. I missed the post you deleted. You apologised to those who might have read it, but what about us nosy-parkers who missed it and have our curiosity raked up? I’m joking, I’m joking, I don’t want to. Unless you want me to! <-See that? Immediate worry ha ha what a circle/cycle.

CG: just been reading you the 11/12 year old. Bit of a bad day huh? In-*******-credible (but I do believe you, credible). How did you ever get to trust anyone? ….pause…..Plus, by gum, you on R’s men thread right now, I’m gonna give you my heart soon and you can take me apart with your laughing fingers. And stop that thought right now.

You know my latest Bore-to-Death subject: ‘Healing the child within’ and all that other jazz? (I’m saying this in the voice of Frank Sinatra, just for the heck of it): well, this is the very last reference: you all read it/read something similar? CG – you say no, I won’t believe you. I ask because I think you’ve all done the therapy jive and I ain’t. Might be wrong there, which wouldn’t be anything new. Out to those shops! P  

[Wildflower]

Hi CG,

Hey baby, you're not speakin' for me are ya'. You're never the bad guy.

I'm sorry my silence on this topic has made you feel that's what I think, cause I don't.

No, no, CG.  Nothing you did made me feel like a bad guy.  Not at all.  That was me talking.  I felt bad for kicking up dust instead of letting it go – the bad guy in the sense of upsetting the apple cart.   I kinda fumbled the last part of the first paragraph, too.  I just wanted to point out to R that she still had support (nobody taking sides).

I just wanted to give you and Rosencrantz room without my interruption

Thanks for the room.    As R put it, it was fireworks between us, so I was relieved that you and Portia weren’t getting caught in the mix.

Like a saggy tit joke or something about testosterone and balls.

      You kill me, CG.  In the best way possible.

Hi Portia,

Thanks for the reality-validation back there .  Sorry I didn’t reply earlier but I was kinda, ahem, focused.    And I just want to say, this chiquita doesn’t think your communication lacks anything.  Some people need Portias, not Wildflowers.   {EDIT: Does that translate?  I like your style Portia.  I like it when you ask a bunch of direct questions and express exactly what you're thinking.  What I meant was that some people need to be asked tough questions or hear direct comments, otherwise they'll stay stuck.  That's not really my strength, I don't think.  At least, when I try, I feel like it comes out all wrong.}

Yeah, my outer shell imagery is all outta whack lately.  Somehow, at some point, my inner child started looking after my outer shell.  Strange. (shaking-crazy-thought-outta-my-head emoticon).

‘Healing the child within’ a bore-to-death subject?  No way.  Nope.  I’ve already ordered the book.  And I haven’t read anything similar (I don’t think).  I’m following a scent my therapist gave me a while back, which is that I need to forgive the child who acted out when I was in third grade, and the mess of a teenager years later.  Forgiving that teenager has been, by far, the hardest job – but I think we’re almost there ('we' being all these people I tow around with me   ).

Time for me to wander out of my own wanderings for a bit (can i borrow that?)

Wildflower

[Anonymous]

HI Portia,

WF: outer shell is outta shell? Like a Russian Doll, peel peel. I missed the post you deleted. You apologised to those who might have read it, but what about us nosy-parkers who missed it and have our curiosity raked up? I’m joking, I’m joking, I don’t want to. Unless you want me to! <-See that? Immediate worry ha ha what a circle/cycle.

Shit I missed it too. F**K work. Why do we have to work?? Did you miss it too Rosencrantz??

CG: just been reading you the 11/12 year old. Bit of a bad day huh? In-*******-credible (but I do believe you, credible). How did you ever get to trust anyone? ….pause…..Plus, by gum, you on R’s men thread right now, I’m gonna give you my heart soon and you can take me apart with your laughing fingers. And stop that thought right now.

Yeah, went out to the shed and dug out an old motorbike helmet to wear for when you get back Rosencrantz.    I got the feelin' you're gonna whoop my ass good honey!!    Oh I'm so excited!!    Remember, be gentle the first time    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[

quote]You know my latest Bore-to-Death subject: ‘Healing the child within’ and all that other jazz? (I’m saying this in the voice of Frank Sinatra, just for the heck of it): well, this is the very last reference: you all read it/read something similar? CG – you say no, I won’t believe you. I ask because I think you’ve all done the therapy jive and I ain’t. Might be wrong there, which wouldn’t be anything new. Out to those shops!

P  [/quote][/quote]

Don't think I've read it Portia, but I read so many damn books I may have. When was it written? If it's a newy, I haven't. Who's the author?
Did ya' buy me anythin', huh, huh, did ya?

(((HIG)))
CG

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the comments and thoughts Wildflower, and  I hope you had a good Easter. I took off with some books, got lots of reading in, and stayed away from chocolate and fags. I think it's fantastic the way the way you were able to reconnect with your "good dad." I wonder if that happens much, or if your experience is fairly unique.
 
Your comment about writing John a letter. I've thought about that a trillion times. I could do that, but I have a huge reluctance. It's like a 'disrespect' thing for me. In my personal life I have this issue with keeping agreements, being at appointments on time etc. I'm never ever ever late. EVER. And if I make a promise, I always, always, ALWAYS keep it. Even if it kills me. Really. For some reason, promises to me are holy. Mine and other people's.

I'm very harsh on myself in this regard, and I guess because I've known about his promise to his family, (Mother knows what a stickler I am for keeping my promises, and insisting othr's keep theirs) maybe she made this up too? Hmmm, never thought of that before) I have to respect that. If John promised his wife that he'd have nothing to do with us again, then that makes me feel very awkward. That woman never hunted me down, and terrorised me, or emabrrassed me in front of my friends, like my mother did to her children.

But, I will say this. I think I can find some way to acknowledge John now, as a part of my life. Like I said, I've got photos of us together and I think I might go buy myself a little frame, and pick out a nice one of us together and put it up out where I can see it. It always  gives me such a nice warm feeling to look at the photo and remember him, so why not? And I don't have to worry about the Witch of Endor over-reacting to it. She's gone years ago. And I fear finding out he's dead. In my heart he's young and handsome and kind and out there somewhere making the world a better place.

Then I think of the old crow, and that makes me think of all the memories I had to bury to keep her stable, and as a result my world stable. Things she didn't want to be reminded of, and things I didn't dare remind her of or she's go nutso. Talk about suck the life from my bones.

That woman would wear 3 or 4 different outfits in one day. If she bought a matching set, (hat glove shoes and handbag), she'd buy the same set in 4 or 5 different colours. And change as many times in one day.

And I had to compliment. Uggh, (groan) all the time complimenting. Giving the 'right' answer to her, "How does this look? Does it make my bum look too big? But then men like something to grab onto, don't they? Can you zip me? Do you think I've got too much eyeshadow on? Look at my stomach, does it look bloated? Wait till you start getting your period, you'll know what I mean. If you don't keep up your appearances, there's always a prettier one out there who will." My emotional fatigues sets it about now remebering it.

I hated this talk so much. Even now I am the worst to go girlie shopping with, and I'm totally hopeless to have girl talk with about fashion. My eyes glaze over and I go into a trance, and start chanting in a robotic monotone "You look lovely, yes I think the blue dress and blue eyeshadow highlights your blue hair beautifully. It's a very appealing combination. Now I've done my duty, can I go and be sick now please?"

No, don't ask me at all, I'm no bloody help. Don't take me shopping if you need to buy new clothes, or ask me how you look. I'll say "Great! Fantasic! Ten Years Younger," and you'll come home with just 2 things. Bags of the greatest pile of hideous outfits, and the thought that I did it on purpose.

I just read what I've written and I'm saying to myself "How did I get here???"

I started talking about John, and how you suggested that maybe I could drop him a line, then I thought about mother, then I thought about her effect on me, and then I went to how her effect on me has retarded my ability to relate normally in so many ways. The I thought about how I don't bother so much with changing my retardation behaviours because I think it would take too long. I just try to be aware of them and not let them cause damage. For example, I tell my friends I'm no good to go shopping, and warn them, "Don't ask me for advice. It's lousy." This is about as good as it's gonna get I think.

I think if I devoted the time it would take to repair the damage she's done I'd have no time or energy left to be mother or friend or wife.

In my mind I liken it to the world's biggest messiest bunch of different coloured string. My mother has put me over here in a corner with this huge messy bunch of string, and it's as big as a house. My job is I have to unravel it and sort all the colours into their groups, and join the different colours together, and it's gonna take forever. Am I going to spend the next 20 years doing, if it's going to be perfect? And in the end all I'm gonna have is a big ball of string to lug around, THAT'S NOT MINE! It's just her legacy to me. Yikes!!!!

How much of my kids lives or making friends or spending time with friends would I miss out on? How tired would I be all the time? Too tired to enjoy MY LIFE. I'd be be over there somewhere, tucked away in some corner of life, neglecting my own things, and spending my life STILL FOCUSSING ON HER CRAP & SORTING OUT HER CRAP!!!!!   and that would just end making me mad and resentful. At her for manipulating me and me for being a sucker.

So I'm adjusting to this, "I'm not going to be able to put all the peices of my life back where I'd like them to be, but I can at least remember them, and know where they'd go."

Does that make sense? Anyway Wildflower, sorry for rambling on and on.
I had planned to only make it a short one.

Guest.

Hi Dawning, I don't know how to take this over to your thread. My ball of string is all I ever got from my mother. She added no value to my life whatsoever. A complete liability with no redeming features. Every time she flew in on her broomstick it would take 6 months to clean up the psyhological emotional and sometimes physical damage she caused. And I'd be lucky if she didn't cause me to lose a few relationships with others temporarily as well. Not worth it, I finally decided nearly 10 years ago. Best thing I ever did, for my family and me.

CG

[Portia]

Hiya WF. Whoah!
 

What I meant was that some people need to be asked tough questions or hear direct comments, otherwise they'll stay stuck. That's not really my strength, I don't think. At least, when I try, I feel like it comes out all wrong.

Ah, gosh, well, (thank you for the kind words) – yes, perhaps some people do….but then again, we’ve all got to be in that place where we want to hear haven’t we? And if we’re not, no amount of talking will get to us. But please don’t say that’s not your strength. You’ve seen how I’ve got so angry and impatient on this board before? I’m not proud of some of it, no. It doesn’t come out wrong with you! WF, I meant what I said before – (did I say it or just think it?) – you’re warm, compassionate, kind – just what people need when they’re feeling low, not an inquisitioner like I can be at times. Different strokes…etc. Hey, how are you doing? You okay?

CG, you’re going to tell me next you used to be a biker and get me all steamed up aren’t you? Brrm brrrm. Oh yes! Did you wear leathers? Black ones...? more on the funny kinky thread tomorrow maybe..(no I’m not trying to tease but you made me LOL literally again).

Hey, and just in case, I meant that in all good terms (about the men thread and heart stuff), you see the obvious and I want you to see my heart and tell me – coz I want to see too. You’re great at it. What’s your rate then? And ya don’t need that book – you know that stuff (recovery, healing, observing: thinking/feeling/observing/loving child) but it’s the Charles Whitfield book. I say you don’t need it coz you talk as though you’ve done it (if you haven’t, how come you’re not a major therapist?)

[Wildflower]

Ah, gosh, well, (thank you for the kind words) – yes, perhaps some people do….but then again, we’ve all got to be in that place where we want to hear haven’t we? And if we’re not, no amount of talking will get to us. But please don’t say that’s not your strength. You’ve seen how I’ve got so angry and impatient on this board before? I’m not proud of some of it, no. It doesn’t come out wrong with you! WF, I meant what I said before – (did I say it or just think it?) – you’re warm, compassionate, kind – just what people need when they’re feeling low, not an inquisitioner like I can be at times. Different strokes…etc. Hey, how are you doing? You okay?

Thanks again, Portia.    I think I’ve been plummeting down a self-doubt hole for the past day or so, so that means a lot to me.  I think I’m getting my feet back on the ground now, though.

R, are you okay?

CG, you’re going to tell me next you used to be a biker and get me all steamed up aren’t you? Brrm brrrm. Oh yes! Did you wear leathers? Black ones...?

CG, please tell me this is true!  Did you know (are you psychic? ha ha ha ) that my good dad has always had motorcycles…and he used to pick me up from school on one every day??  The other kids used to line up at the fence when he arrived (this is so cute) and ask him to take them for a ride.    I even had a little baby helmet (though he never had one…still doesn’t…need to talk to him about that (one-eyebrow-raised emoticon).)


(((HIGS)))
Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

Hi guys - can I come back in???  Room for a little one??  

Well, hi!  I've been really busy working on my feelings in between all the other things I've needed to do.  

Hi Wildflower.  I'm still not quite sure 'what happened'.  I'm really not.  I have a feeling of being on shifting sand and....  Mind you, I've just realised the irony.  You certainly made me hear you, WF, and it certainly created a painful impact   (Now what was I saying about you never hurt me???  Me and my big mouth!!!  )  

Because I'm kinda getting lost in all this, I won't try to struggle on with explanations.  

But I should clarify this bit : I don't understand why you think I think you're like a child.  The thought never entered my head!  

But I see you've asked me questions. So here's my 'working through' to find some answers.

I mean, by wanting to be supportive and caring, does that mean to you that I'm weak and lower down the mountain? Do you think that's necessarily the result of being damaged, instead of something I've worked very hard to 'reclaim'?

The answer to the first sentence is (puzzled frown)  'no, not at all'.  

The answer to the second is 'I'm not sure if you mean what I mean.  I don't think being 'supportive and caring is 'wrong' or a bad thing.  I wouldn't have used the word 'damaged'.  I think that sometimes we may work hard to reclaim things that aren't good for us.'  

But I wasn't talking about being 'supportive and caring'.  I was talking about being afraid of hurting people.  I think these are two different things.  Being supportive and caring takes you 'out' to people; being afraid of hurting people holds you back and away from people.

But I can't know where you're coming from, so here's where I'm coming from :

I've had issues with being too 'gentle' in my life (as a result of guilt and shame) - it's been bad for me and stopped me looking after myself, and it's been worth 'fighting off' and sending it back to childhood where it belongs.  But that's nothing to do with being a child.  More likely it's about being too grown up, too soon.  Having a 'delicate' parent who is too easily damaged and taking responsibility for it (as a child) comes out in the R-adult as 'fearing to tread' and feeling terribly guilty and/or ashamed for the harm I perceive I have caused.  But actually whatever is going on is all 'out there' and there is no causal link at all - or a very circuitous, tenuous link.  I 'naturally' take responsibility for everything that goes wrong and have to be quite 'sharp' in being aware that I'm not!!!  

The ledge, Portia - thanks for asking.  It's a recurring symbol for me.  When I was having that very difficult time with a therapist, I 'saw' myself on a massive sheer rock face on a tiny ledge.  No other ledges anywhere up or down.  Very alone.  

When I wrote about the 'green and sunny' mountain ledge, I didn't regard myself as coming from any 'superior position' - I certainly wasn't in that field any more tho!  I'd forgotten all about it.  I was in a terrible panic.  Desperation to get things 'right'.  Put things the 'right way up'.  Like everything had got tipped over and thrown around.  I'm still not quite sure what happened in my feelings.   Come on everybody, quick, we've got to climb the mountain to get to where it's green again.  Quick, quick, give me your hand.

I'm sorry if you thought I was looking down on you from a superior height, WF.  It didn't feel like that inside me.  Nor did it when I made my initial observation : I was reaching out as one to one - hands across the sea.  There was a 'differential height' image involved I acknowledge and I'm trying to understand how that might feel and what I intended.  Well here's another image which resonates with the mountain ledge for me : if I believed I was in a lifeboat, reaching out into the sea to give you a hand out of the water - would that feel that I was looking down on you, too???

I suppose it assumes that you wanted a helping hand, and you probably didn't.  It was me who needed the helping hand but, in my 'lifescript', my only choice is to give a helping hand to someone else. Or 'here ve haf ze projection, zis girl vants ze help, knows she won't get any so projects her need into someone else and then helps herself by helping the other person - boy can I get tortuous!!!

I thought the information about management was an interesting fact to share but it was shared in total panic!!!  I was being a headless chicken again!!!  Panic - don't think, anyone, don't feel - terrible things are happening.  Close the hatches.  Distract everyone, quick!!!  Just keep talking!! Gabble, gabble, gabble.  And if I keep writing, keep my thoughts working furiously, maybe I won't have to feel the guilt and the panic and the pain, and then the 'knowledge' that I'm a terrible person won't overwhelm me before my feelings have a chance to subside and my rational mind can take over again.  

These feelings aren't the fault of anyone else.  They are mine and I own them (let's make sure everyone understands that) but when these feelings take over, I'm likely to want to throw myself off the nearest cliff  so I have good reason to want to keep them in check until 'I' get back in charge.  

Does that make me really peculiar, really sick? I don't think so really - just experiencing a LOT of pain and being 'too' empassioned about everything.  There's too much I can't detach from, Portia!!!  But I think these feelings come from childhood again.  I don't see where else they could have come from.  Childhood reactions, childhood decisions.  When buttons get pressed, that's where we drop back to.  As if the earth just opened up and dropped us - plummet, crash!

I now feel as though you think I'm just a child who doesn't get it, and the real reason you didn't listen to me is that you didn't think I had anything of value to add to our discussions

Gosh, what painful honestly.  You said that you heard me say that this had 'changed'.  But I never said that or implied that at all, in the first place or ever.  So it couldn't have changed.  That just wasn't what I was trying to say.  It's so completely 'not' what I was saying.  I can't emphasise enough that it's not what I was saying.  

But I just felt so AWFUL that you were thinking that's what I intended to say.  And it felt like every time I tried to tell you that's not what I was saying, somehow you heard something EVEN WORSE!   I felt absolute DESPAIR!!!    As well as panic and all the rest.  

I can relate these feelings of mine back to childhood and my mother.  I don't think you're like my mother, by the way!!!!    I know you are mishearing me because something I said tripped a wire, pressed an unexpected button.  And now I wonder if you'll ever 'hear' me, who I am,  because I got the impression somewhere somehow that you'd actually felt these things for some time and it had all suddenly burst forth.  

If I say to you "I was taught to ask 'who, in your life, do I remind you of' in circumstances such as these", will you once again feel that I'm offering you something from up the mountain rather than in the long grass???

I’m sorry I got so upset, and I’m sorry that I upset you in the process

.

I'm really struggling to say this right : It's OK for you to get upset.  And my upset is my own.  It's not your 'fault'.  And it's not something you 'did'.  And I don't want you to feel you should act different 'because' I got upset.  OK, you said, felt, thought whatever it was that set me off, but my upset is my own.  And here's proof that it's OK - cos something good came out of what I experienced.  Another bubble seems to have 'popped'.  A hugely positive step.  I'll tell you later as I think I've taken up more than enough board space for now.
TTFN
R
PS And WHAT, CG have you been up to over on that other thread?  I'll have to wait until tomorrow now to find out.  What horrors await me?  Just wait til I get that hairbrush!!!