I see it clearly

[lighter]

Thanks for all the responses Hops, Overcomer, Sally...

and Ami:

What I've got niggling in my gut for you is.....

that your mother shamed you and manipulated you to the point where just being honest with yourself promotes more shaming cycles inside yourself.  At least, I fear that's the case.

it's an interesting place to be when you realize there isn't any privacy or hiding these dark things from those around us any longer.....

 if we're to let the sunshine in and disinfect the familial infections.


You just have to start telling.... you're aunt is someone you can tell,l I believe..... and know that the shame it brings up will pass and that in itself is cleansing.  Just to speak your truth and find that it doesn't kill you after all. 

TELLING is part of the healing process.

More than anything, I think we see telling as betraying those we spent so many years protecting and trying to please.  That's a big obstacle for healing. 

We're such trustworthy nice people, used to keeping secrets and taking abuse till we're on the brink of bursting..... that we have to finally BURST before we protect ourselves out of the despair of realizing we won't EVER EVER EVER be able to be loved or valued, no matter what we do. 
::whew!::

Then, of course, we don't look exactly sane bc we're so angry and horrified and wounded it's difficult to express all these stuffed emotions in a cohesive manner that doesn't come accross as unstable. 

Well..... we aren't exactly stable by the time we get to this point, are we, lol?

Nope.

Calm and steady, sit with the overwhelming HUGE feelings and just be with them without reacting to them. 

Write write write about the feelings then read and re write it all down again and again until you've internalized and understand. 

THEN you can discuss anything calmly.  Rationally.  In a cohesive easily understood manner. 

I get that now. 

It takes time and feeling better is worth it. 

We're worth it.

We're the people other people seek out to be with.

It's time we become our own good advocates and company in our lives.

You're right, Sally.  We are chosen by the N's because we make life good and easy and better. 

We have the ability to be our own good companions.  Self care.  Becoming comfortable in our own skins, Ami.

It's work and time, discovery and creating new habits.  Losing old thought patterns that keep us mired in fear and shame. 

::sigh:: 

I'm planning on having a great day today!

I already am and it's only going to get better with pirate mustaches and the best pirate costumes I can creatively put together!  Whoo HOO!  I'm livin in the moment, guys!
: ) hee

[Ami]

that your mother shamed you and manipulated you to the point where just being honest with yourself promotes more shaming cycles inside yourself.  At least, I fear that's the case]



Lighter,
 This is so big that I am speechless. This is my problem. I feel ashamed of any honest emotions or thoughts. My God, I am so sick that it is scary.
   This makes "beaten down" look good. I am so beaten down that beaten down is a step up.
  This is the answer for me.
  What I want in life is simple and free. I want to regain my gut and my core that my mother  and father stole so viciously. I want to be honest inside my head and not feel ashamed of every thought, emotion and reaction.
  I am just " struck with awe" that you gave me the answer.i want to write more ,but I am just struck silent with my whole life pain distilled to a sentence. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Lighter

P.S> WHERE do I go from here?
                                                                                              Love  Ami
 

[isittoolate]

Ami
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Demand much from yourself, little from others and you will prevent discontent.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that quote familiar?

I sense you can understand what is required of you to have a happy life, but you don't know how to look after yourself (P.S> WHERE do I go from here?
                                                                                              Love  Ami[/b]

You hand back to your mother all the toxic shit she has piled onto you and live your own life with your children. you do this with anyone who is upsetting YOUR applecart. You have No Contact with any Ns at all! Find a therapist!! and follow her guidance. If you cannot afford one, then follow the guidance that fits you, from what you glean from this group.

you have an N husband? Hand him back all his toxic shit, the same as to your mother and now you are on your own!

Do not despair! God is with you as you have said so many times, and perhaps you might call on Him more often even than on this Group, since you so believe.

If God is telling you one thing, in your  heart, but you see "something better in writing" which advice are you going to follow?

Make lists and stick to them: otherwise you might be flying all over the map in your endeavour to heal.

Make any sense?
Love
Izzy

[Overcomer]

You tell.  Co Dependent people keep secrets.  Tell the alcoholic you will tell people about his behavior.  Ask the N if it would be alright to let your pastor know what they just said-or when someone walks by ask them if they knew whatever the N just said to you.  You will shut up an N by exposing them.

[Ami]

Dear Izzy,
  I can receive tough love,but do you have to use my own words  to bite me in the ass(lol)?
  Guess what, everyone- my aunt called me. I will call her back tomorrow when I am on the exercise bike. It  is easier for me to talk to some people while I am exercising.
   I have no expectations. .                                                    Love    Ami

[Ami]

i have to add something to "What do I do now?" It is a serious question. I have been like a brainwashed person. Many of us have. I feel like I have been indoctrinated by a cult(NPD mother) I,literally, gave up my perceptual filter at age 14 and let her program me. I remember the moment I made that decision. How could my" beloved "father lie to me?He told me that she was fine. he was the only kindness that I knew( beside my grandmother). I never could have faced that he would lie to me on such a heartfelt and life changing question. I thought that I I must be the most awful,untrustworthy person in the world to see this 'normal" mother and be imagining all these crazy things.I,obviously, could not count on my reality.I ,also, was a horrible, shameful person inside to be seeing these things  and thinking these thoughts about her when she was normal . Then, since I could not trust myself I thought that  I needed her to show me the way.
   All the twists and turns of life with her- throwing myself away little by little in order to think that she was O.K.                                                                   
 I just woke up - today. Rip Van Winkle--from Hell.
 
 

[isittoolate]

Good morning Ami,

Nice to see you awake.

now we have heard your story quite often and now we want to hear ONLY about you. What you are doing for yourself?

I think if you keep repeating the same thing, age 14, N mother, I hate myself, it is like the needle stuck in a record groove. It must be nudged over to the next groove to make any sense.

Another thing is when you respond to someone with advice, don't tell that person your story. It's a backward step for both, especially you. Think carefully about the person to whom you are responding and think hard on your advice and is it advice that can also help you? YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You can help yourself two ways!

Love
Izzy

Edit: I  meant to say that when I first left the N, all I could do was talk about what he did to me. I was at a gal's place, who used to be a customer of his. She does Reflexology and all the while I bitched about him, on an on and on, and one time coming home from there I heard myself and what I must sound like to someone who didn't even understand N-ism and likely thought I was making up things. After that I decided I would stop the repetitive monologues and try to think of another topic. If was hard after years with him, but eventually I was able to put him behind me. ---that is what makes me wonder if your going over and over the details is preventing you from moving forward???

[lighter]

that your mother shamed you and manipulated you to the point where just being honest with yourself promotes more shaming cycles inside yourself.  At least, I fear that's the case]



Lighter,
 This is so big that I am speechless. This is my problem. I feel ashamed of any honest emotions or thoughts. My God, I am so sick that it is scary.
   This makes "beaten down" look good. I am so beaten down that beaten down is a step up.
  This is the answer for me.
  What I want in life is simple and free. I want to regain my gut and my core that my mother  and father stole so viciously. I want to be honest inside my head and not feel ashamed of every thought, emotion and reaction.
  I am just " struck with awe" that you gave me the answer.i want to write more ,but I am just struck silent with my whole life pain distilled to a sentence. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Lighter

P.S> WHERE do I go from here?
                                                                                              Love  Ami
 

::Sigh::

I'm just glad you aren't focused on your Nhusband any longer.  Sorry sorry sorry..... one of my triggers right now, lol.   

OK..... I think that hurt baby/child Ami has some work to do.  I think that you have to go sit in the shower and wail like a wounded animal while pretending you're 3 and 4 and 5yo and telling your mother and your father (in your wounded child's voice) how much they hurt you and how you felt when they did the things that gutted you and feel so so so so sorry for that little child. 

She needs to be heard.   

She needs you to know how badly she hurts.

She needs YOU to validate her feelings.

Don't suck in air or hold your breath when you're crying.  Just wail and cry and carry on.  Plan it.  Don't have anything else to do the rest of the day and go get in that shower and sink into the despair and sadness.  Be puffy be pink and concetrate on exploring the pain.  It won't be easy.  You'll HATE it but it WILL make you feel better IF YOU CAN GO THROUGH IT and stop avoiding it and trying to push it down.  You're mother always told you to stop sniveling and stop feeling sorry for yourself and stop trying to blame her.....


well......


I'm giving you permission RIGHT NOW, to do just that.  Talk to her.  Be 3yo again and tell her everything.  Be 12you and tell her everything.  Be that confused hurt vulnerable tender child and talk about how they made you feel.  Tell them everything and don't hold back the tears or the feelings or the hurt or the anger or the sadness.  It's ALL VALID.  It's all necessary. 

It might look something like this....

"Mama, when I was little and I needed you, when I was crying and alone and you left me locked in my bedroom with a bladder infection, burning and screaming..... I was so sad and so small and I needed you so much... I didn't understand anything but that you were my world and I hurt so badly and you won't come you won't come you won't come and it won't stop hurting and daddy won't come and I'm so alone and frightened......"

You need to sink into the heartbreak and let that little girl be heard because she's trying to speak all the time, even as you try NOT to hear her.

It's like being tapped on the shoulder all the time.... like being haunted.  Like having unfinished business that will ruin your life if you don't address it and hear it and let it speak and ONCE YOU DO......

She'll feel better. 

She'll have more peace. 

You'll keep working on your coping strategies and self care rituals. 

You'll find a couple very good friends and a group of people to share things with.

People who don't requirethat you sacrafice yourself so that they can feel better about being sick and broken and living in a state of altered reality that requires people to mutilate their true selves. 

Gaining your voice means you honor yourself.

You have to figure out what Ami likes to do.

You've been focused on what mama wants Ami to be... on pleasing her. 

What does Ami want in this life for herself?

What interests do you think you might want to explore?

That's where you start and before you know it.....

you'll have things to do and places to be and not so much time to post on this board anymore, lol. 

 Maybe you drop by and help other people who remind you of yourself not so long ago.... a lifetime ago?


You share your lessons and you find that only drives the lessons home for you. 

It solidifies your life's lessons in concrete ways that allows you to LIVE them, rather than try to incorportate them in abstracts you can't really FEEL yet. 

All the sudden you're FEELING better.  You're feeling whole.  You've found your core and you're sharing the real Ami with others.....

and yourself. 

[Ami]

Thank you,lLghter
   There is a lot of good information ,here.                        Love    Ami

[isittoolate]

lighter

That was absolutely wonderful!!

and so sensible!

Izzy

[Overcomer]

This is what I mean about snapping out of it.  You do not remove your scars by denying them however you get no where by replaying the offenses over and over and over again.  I used to do that and you end up making yourself sick by reliving the hell.  The first step is to set major boundaries and the second is to tell and the third is to tell yourself that it is over and you will do whatever it takes to not be the victim anymore.  It is easy to obsess and think about all the injustices in life!

[lighter]

Thanks Izzy.

Ami...  you're doing great work and at some point you won't feel the need to talk about what your mother did you so much.  That's when you'll have let the little child inside have her say and get it all out. 

You haven't done that yet and/or if you have..... then maybe you've become stuck in the role of victim?  Not really sure but no one here wants Ami to be a victim.  We want you to be triumphant in the posture of "survivor." 

You'll get there..... bc there are those ahead of you, lighting the way.

[Ami]

Dear Lighter,
   I get what you are saying.                                                                                                                                        At this moment,though,, I feel so very alone . Facing that my "dreams and "life' were a lie makes me feel so vulnerable. I feel so, alone . I am facing the world all alone. I just want to cry and cry . I  have not faced 'real" life since I was 14. I was in a shell of illusions.I covered myself with sickness, worry and longng for my mother. It was a comfort. It was like hiding under cotton .
   I know that I am "it". I have to be my friend. I have to be my support. I have to learn how to take care of myself and to honor myself.
  It just feels so over whelming  .Does everyone go through this even if they don't have an N mother?                     
                                                                                                                 Love  Ami
   

[lighter]

I think everyone goes through it, Ami. 

They just call it "carving their own niche."

I guess self discovery can be painful for anyone, esp those with abusive childhoods.

You have a very difficult path and you deserve to feel sorry for yourself.  Go ahead and do that.  You truly are entitled to feel those feelings and MUST in order to move through and past them. 

Just know that you'll find yourself in that lonely place you're in. 

The VOID. 

 How scary and dark and alone it is. 

For everyone who goes through it. 

And everyone does. 

[Hopalong]

Ami...

I don't know.

But I think you could scream WHY ME? 1,000 times and it might help.

How about reading the book When Bad Things Happen to Good People, or some philosophy, or some Holocaust survivior stories?

Especially, how about reading Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl?

I think you need to discover that your life has meaning and that you have an identity that is more than pain.

You do.

Hops