Energy Vampires

[Gaining Strength]

Wow Certain Hope.  I love this thread.

I have had alot of experience with the paranoid.  When I read it I thought immediately of my late husband and after he died I began to believe that he fit the descriptions of BPD, so I really clicked into Lighter's post.

I am electrified by this line:
Little acts of degradation, manipulation, secrecy and shame on a daily basis take their toll. Trauma by accumulation sneaks up on its victims.

Is anyone here interested in EFT?  One of the things that has caught me us short concerning it is that it is recommended that you get at specific instances of wounding but I have found that next to impossible for the very reason identified by the above statement.  That line really goes to the heart of my "victimization" and my extremely difficult time in getting it identified.  It hid in great part because it was not some specific, horrific act against me but it was much more insidious, little acts that could be excused away.

Thank you so much for posting this CH.

[Hopalong]

(((((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))

I am so sorry. I got a knot in my chest just reading that.
You love them so much and see their father-hunger.

Is there a kind male friend, or an uncle, you can bring into their lives?
A great teenager?

At least they have a great lively wonderful mother.
And they will surely turn out well.

love
Hops

[Certain Hope]

(((((((Lighter))))))  I know. And I am so very sorry.

My kids' dad was never there for them and even when he was still in the visible picture, he was too busy tending his own perverse needs to be anything but a damaging influence. And then came npd-ex. I tell you, they would have been better off without... and a solid male influence doesn't have to live in the home.

They're okay, though, Lighter... they know that they have my love and that nothing that's happened in their young lives was their fault or responsibility.

Your grief is palpable. I was so sorry, for so long, that they had to learn such hard lessons before their time...  and yet I know that God made them resilient and flexible and full of more than enough of what it takes to grow and thrive through all that. Please know that this is a normal stage of mourning for you and it will pass.

And I know that you have what it takes to continue making all the difference in their lives, Lighter. You really do. More big hugs to you... this is so hard, but they will not miss what they never had... and they know, they always have known, I bet, where to turn for the real thing.

[Certain Hope]

Dear James,

Wow. When you won you always felt like you'd lost...  oh, do I know that feeling!
Again, I'm seeing anew the element of competition between one of my friends and me, as she'd try to engage me in helping her.
With us, it was always alllll her many troubles and issues pitted against my teeeeeny tiny smidgen of wisdom, experience, and ability to help... and if I managed to make a suggestion that she'd actually accept, and if she'd actually admit that it had helped, then her next set of woes was even bigger and more horrendous... sheesh.
Now that is a weird sort of... dare! A challenge to play a rigged game... a game of chicken.
In fact, I think... "I dare you to try to help me" is exactly what she was saying... knowing all the while that it'll never be enough, and never be right =
she always wins.
You wrote, "the competition perhaps was me trying to find myself against the madness that the N made me feel"
Yes, that I do understand. Maybe you were trying to define yourself... where you leave off and he begins... and there he is, continually raising the bar.
For me, it was my own lack of internal boundaries which allowed all her junk to flow in me, making me almost desperate to help her, because if I couldn't help her, then I couldn't help myself. Aarghh... nonsense!! I am not her and I do not have to be what she needs in order to be complete, successful, and well!
 Thank you, James... for another piece of one of the puzzles!!

P.S.  What is dragon's den?

[Certain Hope]

Wow Certain Hope.  I love this thread.

I have had alot of experience with the paranoid.  When I read it I thought immediately of my late husband and after he died I began to believe that he fit the descriptions of BPD, so I really clicked into Lighter's post.

I am electrified by this line:
Little acts of degradation, manipulation, secrecy and shame on a daily basis take their toll. Trauma by accumulation sneaks up on its victims.

Is anyone here interested in EFT?  One of the things that has caught me us short concerning it is that it is recommended that you get at specific instances of wounding but I have found that next to impossible for the very reason identified by the above statement.  That line really goes to the heart of my "victimization" and my extremely difficult time in getting it identified.  It hid in great part because it was not some specific, horrific act against me but it was much more insidious, little acts that could be excused away.

Thank you so much for posting this CH.

Dear GS,

I'm just beginning to realize the many ways in which the paranoid type has always been able to effectively push my buttons.
I think that's because I'd tune in to their fear and often mis-read it as a need for reassurance, when what they really desired was to consume me.

Doesn't take long with one of this type to recognize that any attempt to declare separate-ness or assert boundaries is interpreted as a breach of loyalty... a betrayal.
There's a stringent requirement with the paranoid... one must see 100% eye to eye with this type at every level, else be declared the enemy.
No peaceable compromise is allowed... only absolute surrender.
Wearying of the battle and walking away is interpreted as a direct assault, bringing on a fresh harangue of accusations and claims of victimhood.
This used to draw me back in, with further attempts to convince the person of my care and concern, but no more.
Lighter keyed in to the relationship of this type to Borderlines, but NPD does it, too... the difference being, imo, BPD is scared to death... but NPD purposes to destroy its targets because of its furious, burning hatred of anyone who would dare to think herself good enough to care for them.

That line you cited got me, too...   Little acts of degradation, manipulation, secrecy and shame on a daily basis take their toll. Trauma by accumulation sneaks up on its victims.

That's the story of my childhood, unintentional as it was... but I'm getting to relive and reprogram those little occasions daily, now that I'm aware... with my children and "normal" (heh... so he says ) husband... and even alone, often as I'm reading here on the board, recognizing how I might have reacted in the past (and why) and how I feel about it now.  Every day, I'm seeing that it's okay not to sort it all at once.. every little bit helps and eventually, it'll all come together.
I wasn't familiar with EFT, but looked it up and did a bit of reading here...  http://www.emofree.com/  I dunno, GS.... I kinda feel like if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is... but I just don't know.
Thanks for you comments... helped me alot, too, to continue thinking this through.

Love,
Hope

[Gaining Strength]

Doesn't take long with one of this type to recognize that any attempt to declare separate-ness or assert boundaries is interpreted as a breach of loyalty... a betrayal.

That line just makes me shiver Certain Hope.  It points to the hopelessness of a "relationship" with such a person.  I really does give me some clarity about my relationship with my late husband.  I loved him for many reasons but I also felt locked into a desparate situation that I could not for the life of me understand. 

I'm getting to relive and reprogram those little occasions daily
I am too and it has really changed my life!


http://www.emofree.com/  I dunno, GS.... I kinda feel like if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is... but I just don't know.
Yeah, I don't know either. It appeals to me on one level and the thing about it  is that even if it doesn't work there seems to be little danger.

[Certain Hope]

I understand about your late husband, ((((((((Gaining Strength))))))))
These can be the most intense relationships imaginable and it's very difficult to recover from the effects, I know.

With what I've now learned, I can see that my own relationships with borderline-symptomatic people began when I was starved for emotional connection and had absolutely no internal boundaries against over-identification.

Not knowing what was healthy, having only related to very emotionally disconnected people, I'd take in every bit of feeling these folks could radiate.
My parents... nothing. No "I love you", no touch, no discussion of feelings.
My husband of 15 years... nothing. I remembered the other day, out of the blue, how he'd screamed at me when I cried at finding my pet bird dead...
he was just a void, where feelings were concerned.

So along came these people full of feeling... simply radiating emotion... and I'd take it all in with relish,  positive or negative, and think... ahh, I'm alive - I can feel all of these things! This is so wonderful... what life was meant to be... sharing with a real, genuine human being who isn't afraid to feel... who gets to the heart of matters!  ugh

Took me a long while to realize that with a borderline, the drama is endless... and the moment you try to declare a time-out, you become the target of that age old fury-like-a-woman-scorned.
And then, if you are blessed enough to escape that hell for a bit, your heart groans to return to the fullness of emotions like you'd never before experienced. Without that constant upheaval, life feels so flat...  and pretty soon you're like the person who just got off the rollercoaster, after screaming in terror through the entire ordeal, and running right back to the line to do it all again. It's a very painful addiction. I do understand.

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

Thanks Hops and Hope. The one thing that can reduce me to tears.... is my children's need for a father who can't be there for them.  Awful:**(

and they know, they always have known, I bet, where to turn for the real thing.

::vision of 300 pound stranger (in pool) flashes before my eyes::

Heh.... I know what you meant, Hope; ) 

[finding peace]

I am sorry lighter

They have you to balance the equation, and that will make all the difference.

Peace

[lighter]

In my county they have mandatory divorcing parent classes.

They assume one parent is going to be a menace in the equation.

It's mostly about helping the ONE GOOD ENOUGH PARENT soldier through and provide sanity and stability enough to save their children.

No matter what nut job other parent does.

That helped a bit but......

it was also a blueprint of new ideas for the nut jobs in the room: /  Yikes!

Talk about looking around and labeling people, lol. 

::sigh::

that was quite a day....

I think it was 3 hours of fun and frolic.

Anyhoo.... I was sitting next to a guy who winked at me..... juuuuuuust like my soon to be X winks. 

Blech. 

Nutjob #1,  and very cute too. 

Blech  blech blech.

Then there were those that didn't ask any questions.....

 they just sat and sneered at the teachers, lol.....

never any questions.

The good guy single parents, moms and dads, to their credits.... were asking questions about keeping schedules straight and providing necessities while the nut jobs undermined them at every turn. 

It was heartwrenching to listen to and just know that their only defense is to be stoic and take it and keep telling their children....

'you're too young to understand now..... but mama's/daddy's going to take care of you and you're going to be just fine'

While the nutjobs were free to do their worst. 

I will tell you this..... some of the most poignant on target questions were asked by a same sex couple (who kept getting in my way to talk to the guy teacher) I really wanted to speak with at break. 

There were nightmare stories of drug addicted parents that came and went in their children's lives like the plague, bc they never kept promises and will always dissapear..... again.

Oh..... so tragic and the struggle for the sane parent is so lonely and so fraught with apathy. 

There should be some darned consequence, the nutjobs care about. 

Fines....... bench warrants..... something: /

The teachers said that they see people brought into the class in handcuffs bc they refuse to go to the class of their own free will.

if you skip it there is a bench warrant issued.... if you get a traffic ticket.... it comes up.

Someone who's been there..... tell me about forming a parenting plan that helps.

A plan that N will sign bc he'll look bad if he refuses. 

Has anyone here made such a plan,

 in case someone get's stupid....

or....

toxic?

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lighter,

Wish that I could help...

the thing is, I feel that this approach you're suggesting doesn't make sense in light of npd

"tell me about forming a parenting plan that helps.

A plan that N will sign bc he'll look bad if he refuses. "

First, it's too sensible... and second, taking that approach could very well bring you to offer him far
more in the parenting plan than the judge will find reasonable (by the time his aNtics are over).
I don't think you'd want to have to try to backtrack from a plan that you only wrote in an attempt to appear reasonable.

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

Hope:

All I wanted to include were consequences, reasonable ones, if one parent didn't honor the agreement..... ie

take the children on schedule.... fail to give proper notice of skipping visitation so the kids don't end up packed and sitting on the front stoop as pick up time comes.....

goes......

sun goes down.....

weeping ensues.
Phone calll comes from out of State....

after the children have cried themselves to sleep.

Makes me want to vomit tears thinkin about it.


Some bone crunching punishment for insane punitive parents who sacrafice their children to the God's of Hate and Vengence?

If a nut job parent spends 2 years fighting over visitation.....

and 200K....

Then doesn't take any of the vistation they fought for.....

is there not any accountability?

Really really?

Nada?

Nicht?

[Certain Hope]

Lighter,

He is going to blow it in a much bigger way than you can even imagine... because he's npd and you're not.

Please... I say this with all love and tenderness... try to chill. You won't have to explain to your children why he does the things he'll do... and you don't have to prepare for all that in any way other than to maintain your own health and strength so that you're all you can be for them when they need you.

((((((((((Lighter))))))))))

[lighter]

Hope.....

right now....

that's just not good enough: / 

[Certain Hope]

Lighter,

From my experience, that's all there is... and it's not as little as you think.

I've had to explain to 3 children why they couldn't have any contact with their dad and try to pick up the pieces with the child whom he actively molested. I'm not trying to say it's less than horribly awful to have your children know the things of which their father is capable.
I'm saying that everyone survives, processes, learns how to live, to love, to find happiness... and life goes on.

Love,
Hope