Varying Sibling Reactions to NPD

[sunblue]

I just read Dr. Grossman's info on voicelessness and it really hit home.  I've studied NPD for awhile now to better understand my family's situation.  I am the adult child of an NPD mom and an NPD sister (the "chosen" one).  I also have a co-dependent dad and a "healthy" brother who is happily married.  I have suffered from major depression since a child (although I was diagnosed only as an adult).  It is frustrating that no one in my family will recognize the correlation between the NPDs in my family and my depression and lack of self-esteem.

However, what I really wonder is why siblings are not affected in similar ways to an NPD parent.  For example, my brother seems not to be affected at all, having developed a healthy marriage, family and friends, etc.  He does not have depression or self-esteem problems.

I, however, am the damaged one.  I don't have any relationships and have always had severe self-esteem issues, coupled with major depression and PTSD.

Of course, my NPD sister, having benefited from all the attention from my NPD mom and co-dependent dad, thrives.  Because of her destructive behavior, my brother and I have nothing to do with her.  But naturally, my parents devote their whole lives to her.

Can anyone offer any insight into why siblings react so differently when they've been raised in the same house by the same NPD parent? 

[Hopalong]

Welcome, Sunblue.

I think it's because you were the girl child.
Same for me...my brother seems untroubled by my mother's nature.

Well, he's Nish himself, or a bunch of other things.

But I think Nmothers often try to grind their daughter into pulp, while males get the charm.

(Somebody else wrote a really good post on this recently...maybe someone can point you to it.)

Glad you're here, you're in good company.
Hopalong

[Ami]

I just want to say that---- that is a GREAT question. I would love to hear people's responses.  I do have a question for you, though. You said that your S is destructive. How? If she is destructive, then she does not 'live well"? right?
   Also, are you close to your brother to know about his life    I am just curious ,myself, .That is why I am asking.                                Thanks  so much          Ami

[sun blue]

Hi Ami:

Thank you for your response and I thought I'd follow up your questions.

My sister (who I strongly believe is also NPD) is destructive in a variety of ways.  She is extremely controlling, selifish and self-centered.  She has done many terrible things to my brother and I.  For example, she backed out of my brother's wedding (as a bridesmaid) at the last minute because she didn't like the dress.  On his actual wedding day, she wrote a hate-filled and obscenity-filled letter in the wedding card she gave him telling him how stupid he was for getting married.  It was truly hateful.  Then, a few years later when my brother and his wife had a child, she disowned them all because she wasn't selected as godmother (they wanted a married couple who held Christian beliefs and my sister did not fit either of those criteria).  When she disowned them, she refused to to to the Christening; she ripped up the baby picture they sent into little pieces and mailed it back to him; she refused to be in the same room with them so our family could no longer be together on holidays or vacations, etc.  When her own live-in boyfriend (of 20+years) announced he was pursuing a certain job, she immediately announced she was throwing her hat in the ring for the same job (consequently, neither was appointed the job).  She continues to monopolize my parents under the guise that she has a "nervous" condition.  My parents spent every weekend, holiday, vacation, free time with her.  When I was a child, she was very abusive to me and made it clear she wanted nothing to do with me.  On the other hand, when we were all young, she adored my brother and make him her own.  She was so physically and verbally abusive to me, I had to study in a walk-in closet to avoid her wrath (we shared a bedroom as children).  So, you get the drift.

As for my brother, I am close to him on some level.  However, his number one priority is his wife and child who he adores and who adore him.  He really doesn't have a place for anyone else in his life.  I think also he has learned to deal with my dysfunctional parents by distancing himself from them and probably extends that to me a little bit.  Perhaps because he was adored by my sister and didn't incur her rejection and wrath growing up, he grew up having a better sense of himself that allowed him to find friends and a family of his own.  He also never had to deal with the depression I do.

It is really hard accepting that you're alone.  A healthy family doesn't act this way.  But no one in my family has ever taken an interest in me or my life.  It is worsened by the fact that my father is extremely co-dependent.  He never stands up for me (or for himself) and just goes along with whatever my sister and mom want.

So, there you have it.  In my case, I just wish I could get at least my "healthy" brother to see the direct correlation between how my parents behaved towards me and my depression and self-esteem issues.  I think that would help.  By the way, as an adult, I found myself in a short-lived but extremely damaging relationship with an NPD.  I didn't know it at the time of course.  But I've learned that people who find themselves in these sorts of relationships do so because it is what they know, what they are used to, and that speaks to their families and how they were raised.

If anyone here can recall that other post that speaks to this issue of siblings of NPD parents, I'd sure appreciate a link.

Thanks!

[JanetLG]

Sunblue,

I can relate to a lot of what you've posted. It sounds like you put up with an awful lot in your childhood. Your sister sounds absolutely appalling.

I'll tell you a bit about me, and you just watch the similarities!

I have an older brother who seems to be 'OK' - except he's quite distant, off-hand, can't form proper relationships and prefers to sit on the fence rather than have a firm opinion on anything. Both my parents thought the world of him when we were all growing up (he was the first born). My Mum is the one with NPD, and my Dad is the one who wouldn't stand up for himself, or me, as my NMum was so strong. He is the only one that I still have contact with, now

I was the targeted one, causing me to have anorexia for 12 years - I have had no contact with my NMum for 13 years.

Then there's my sister. Because she was appointed the Golden Child by my NMum, she is unbearable now, and I believe she's got NPD too. I have no contact with her either.

I left home at 22 and moved in with an Nboyfriend (chosen by my NMum and Nsister), so I had a bad relationship there, too, for 6 years.

Are you the middle child? Would you mind saying how old you are? Many people here are in their forties or fifties - it seems to take that long for the penny to drop! I'm 45, and only found out that what my Mum's got is called NPD a year ago.

It's a hard thing to deal with, but this forum is the best place to talk it out, IMO.


Janet

[Gaining Strength]

I think there are many reasons that siblings react differently.  The simple answers are these; first, each child is different, they are born different and react differently to different stimulus and second parents treat different children differently even if it is imperceptible to the children themselves.  The two reasons can make enormous differences.  It is not unlike how two siblings can seem to eat or drink the same and yet one may become obese while the other not or one may become alcoholic and the other not.

That's my opinion.

[isittoolate]

hi sunblue

welcome
Makes sense, happened here

Mom, Dad 5 kids and I am in the middle.
I was born shy-and backward if that can happen, because I have brown hair and the others are all redheads; they taunted me about not belonging. I was ridiculed for various reasons, and neither parent stepped in. I felt very 'hated' by my siblings and felt very 'unnecessary' to my parents.

Now Dad was a raging physical abuser to all of us (razor strap) and Mom was a 'stand back and don't interfere' mother. I am an older genreration from you. Am 68, my parents died in '86 and'94.

All kids left home as soon as we finished high school. All other of the 4 married and had 2 children and are still married to same spouse, so are celebrating anniversaries, 50th, 49th, 45th, 40th this year and I am alone.

I had 2 bad relationships: One commom-law and we had a daughter. He was physically abusive and an alcoholic, so I left when our daughter was 2½ By Golly she missed him and I felt so gulty. #Two relationship was '98-'02 with a Psychopathand now no contact for 5 years. It was because of him that I learned about Ns and Ps.----pretty late in life , I say.

Anyway, now I know that my daughter married and N and he caused her untold agony ( now divorced) as well as  did the 'conquer and divide" so that we have been apart for 16 years.

I realized that all the pain caused to me as a child, besides my father came from one particular sister. She was a controlling bi*ch and was the instigator of all the harm and ridicule I went through as a child and I went through even more when I ended my first relationship. She wanted to divorce her husband, that would be the 49th anniversary above, and told our parents I was having an affair with her husband and she was divorcing him. They believed her, so we can change that now to, live with him for 10 years, married for 20 for her second relatinship, but my parents used to follow me around, or check to see if my car was home by a certain time and I was 28+.

When I was 30 and my daughter was 5, I was in a car crash and disabled. I was away from her for a year, but there were visits. Anyway another time of abandonment for her, then when her husband kicked me out (owing me $55,000,00--damned N) I drove away and abandoned her again.

The solution to all my problems would have been to speak out for myself from the beginning----make my 'voice' heard. Told mom on my sister, yelled and screamed at Dad when he beat me., I should have spoken up to people when I was in my teens, spoken up re guy#1 about his drinking before it was so bad he couldn't turn it around. He killed himeslf. I ought to have raised my daughter to do this but I didn't know how important it was to speak up, be assertive, say No, and mean NO! I ought to have ripped hell out of my son-in-law!!!!!

I think every feeling a person has ought to be spoken aloud, and once it is out it is not gong to back up to your insides and cause you untold stress in later years.

I have lived 68 years for nothing!

Good Luck

Izzy

{EDIT} I have 3 grandchildren--- remember daughter married an N? --- the eldest lives with the father and is Nish at 21 The other 2 are with my daughter {and I don't think they are.) ages 18 and 15.

P.S. I sued S-I-L for my $$ and got it!

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[Gaining Strength]

(Izzy, I am surprised to read this last sentence, "I have lived 68 years for nothing!"  After months of watching you grow stronger I really thought you have begun to change your view about your life.  No?) (whispering so as to not interfere with thread)

[isittoolate]

hi GS

I just read that book yesterday about my grandson's near tragedy and I just cannot believe so much when on after I was dismissed. It is a distressing book for me, whereas It might be just another true adventure story to strangers (no-relatives)
*whispering too. but feeling a bit off from my usual demeanour*

[sun blue]

WOW!  First of all, thank you to all of you for posting!  I think it's really helpful to hear from other people going through this.  It also made me feel better that others are only figuring this out later in life (like me--mid-40s...OUCH!)

From the discussion so far, it seems there are a few similarities in this situation.  I'm a middle child like some of you posted and perhaps that makes a difference.  Also, there seems to be a common thread of having at least one sibling who is also NPD (my older sister is).  Third, the non-NPD parent seems to be co-dependent and submissive (my dad is extremely so and thus I could never count on him to intervene on my behalf, then or now).  Also, it seems that those of us most affected by an NPD parent have difficulty or inability finding or maintaining relationships (I've never been married or had any serious relationships to speak of, let alone children unfortunately).  It also appears that other somewhat "healthy" siblings are aloof  and non-emotional when it comes to these issues.  I know mine sure is.  He just refuses to try to understand even when I spelled it out for him (and when my therapist tried to explain it to him).

My NPD mother has been very emotionally abusing but not in a physical way.  Her ways are all emotional.  It was interesting when someone said they wished they had stood up to these NPD abusive people.  That might play a role in relationships we have later on with significant others, but when it's your parents, you don't know any different.  I know in my house it was always a situation where we all had to walk on eggshells, making sure no one disagreed with or failed to pay attention to the NPDs in the house.  The result is that the only person who ever had any of their needs met in the house was the NPD (in my case, my mom and my sister).  The result was total disinterest and neglect in the lives of the rest of us.  For me, that meant growing up with a severly negative self-image, feeling like a total failure and lacking in value.  This translated into every area of my life and still does.

For me, the hardest thing is giving up "hope" that you'll have the parental relationships you needed and deserved.  I'm coming to accept that I will never have that and never have that.  I keep thinking, "What if?"  What if I had not been neglected (emotionally)?  What if someone had paid attention to me and cared about me?  What if someone had given me a "voice"?  It's very hard for me to see both my NPD sister and "healthy" brother having positive experiences in life when I have nothing but negative ones and am the one who seems to suffer the most of this familial NPD relationship.....

What's also frustrating is from the outsider's perspective my NPD mom and sister are "perfect", "wonderful".  They are two completely people with others and with us.  They are the ones who appear to be wonderful and successful.  I, on the other hand, am the weak one, the unsuccessful one, the loser.  And it makes me angry because I truly don't believe it's my fault.  But there is no one who will validate that.

But I am glad I found this message board.  It is very helpful to hear from those who are adult children of NPD parents.  For me, my challenge is what do I do now?  I have discovered that I cannot count on my dysfunctional parents or "healthy" brother and so I am left literally alone.  How do you function with this?  How do you not take it personally?  In the past, my therapists have always told me that I need to focus on the fact that it is "them" who are the unhealthy ones, not me.  But I just can't help thinking that it is me, that if someone I were different that my NPD mom would take an interest in me.....

Narcissism is just a horrible disorder because the pain and damage is not endured by the NPD person but to those around them, those who are true "victims" of the disorder.  It is just so unfair......It just seems like the NPD person never suffers.  THey are completely fine.  They don't mind sacrificing relationships with children or spouses or others in favor of their NPD children or those who buy into their behaviors...

I feel not only heartbroken but completely broken by this.  I mourn the loss of normal family relationships, of the love and attention I never received but which people all around me seem to receive.  It is such a lonely world.

Thanks again for listening and for posting.  It was really great to hear your situations and the similarities.  It just proves there is something to this because goodness knows, the NPDs in our lives would never acknowledge their disorder or allow a doctor to diagnose it officially.

Thanks!

[Ami]

^{Narcissism is just a horrible disorder because the pain and damage is not endured by the NPD person but to those around them, those who are true "victims" of the disorder}




Dear Sun Blue,
   I just HAD to post before I went to bed b/c I heard such anguish in your post. I can say that I have a husband and two good children( which I am grateful for),but I almost died from the pain of my mother, in spite of having a 'family".
  I don't mean to minimize at all what you have suffered- in ANY way_ and I hope that it does not sound that way-- just to say that she destroyed me- family or no family.
    Sun, I am so, so so sad for what she did to you. You so, so did not deserve any of the awful treatment. Birth order makes sense in playing a factor about who gets scapegoated.
   I bet the other two may look "perfect",but they most likely are suffering ,also. The N mother is a curse on all .We had one thread where people said that the scapegoat was luckier b/c the golden one can never break away. I don't know. It is ALL terrible.
   I hope that you stay and keep sharing. I think that you will find a "home" here.I wish that I could give you a BIG hug      Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

Hi (((((((Izzz)))))))))

I hear feelings a-roiling. I think it may be painful when it starts to come out but please let it come, and know no matter what, when you grieve,

you are not alone.

We are here and will be here and so will your T...

and you are 68-going-on-40.

lots of love,
Hops

[Iphi]

And it makes me angry because I truly don't believe it's my fault.  But there is no one who will validate that.

It isn't your fault!  You are right to feel angry!  I'll validate you!  I don't believe you are a loser for one second and anything they say to you to that effect is just a pernicious lie.

Well, the Ns suffer (I have seen it) but right now I just don't care.  Because they think I should care and I am OUT of the business of gratifying Ns.  Kaput!  They never do a thing to actually alleviate their own suffering - they never learn anything as people. They never grow.

((((sun blue))))  I'm sorry you have tried so hard to be honest and make the most of your relationship with your brother and it just doesn't sound like he is able to step up.  I understand and have similar issues with my sister. 

I'm glad you are here.

[Hopalong]

Hi Sunblue,
(I love your name, btw.)

I am so sorry...you're in that terrible pit that feels like a child left alone on the curb in the winter while the mother drives by laughing...

I promise, it won't last. Eventually your life force will drive you out to form new families of friendship and community and support and caring and happy healthy activity and your life will fill up with the present. Then the pain of the past and fear of the future won't have room to take over.

They'll visit, as they do, but you'll return to the present, which is all we have, any of us, ever, really.

with love,
Hops

[isittoolate]

Thank you hops
A few places in the book I almost choked up but an getting there!

and sun blue

My daughter is your age group. At this point in life I am learning that doilies (damn and I crocheted so many) are no longer necessary and that big hair is out, long sgraggles are in and that people no longer send Thank You notes for Wedding gifts, or any other gift not handed to them in person. Well at least I wear slacks on the street....I'm not THAT old.

There is always something about the middle child, but as well, the placement of the others, as well as depending on the household.

I gather Dad with his raging, and that someone suggested he had a "dry-drunk' personaliry--was  the N--- or close to it and Mom was  the co-dependant!

Apparently the way it goes is that if you "couldn't fix your father" you will end up with a man who, like daddy, needs fixing, and so on...

I wonder about your brother not understanding you when you tell him....... but if he is happy with his little family, and knows there is dysfunction, he just might not want a part of it.......................in case it's contagious??????.... and ask yourself again... just how healthy IS your brother??????

My so-called healthy siblings, in my opinion, are avoiding the whole issue. I happen to be competent and strong and have come through many tough times and traumas, but yet no one will say, "Way to go, sis! I could never have done that! I would have sent my spouse into the fray for you!"

If you are at all as I described myself and have never been one to stand up for yourself--well it's assertiveness time! Ask your Therapist!

i.e. I have known a man for 40 years,. He was my boss. For at least the last 13 years he has telephoned me and tells me things about my daughter and the kids. I liked to hear them, but I would get depressed and then he had been making me mnadder and madder and madder, and now after therapy, I told him I don't want any more telephone calls from him if all he is calling for is to talk about her and the kids and what they do for him and not me. After I hung up, I thought I ought to have said "It cuts like a knife"! Then I realized I don't talk in those descriptive terms. Right now I don't care if he ever calls again!!

I think you can start thinking about giving up hope that things will change. They won't--not unless parents go into therapy. They must be my age, and I signed in as "is it too late" but am now Izzy, and everyone said NO it was not too late and I am getting feeling about things I ought to have done, ..........etc.


You might never get validation from within, but you will from other sources, workmates etc. I am the best worker anyone ever had!!! Case closed!! I know it because every supervisor I ever had has told me so....and they had nothing to lose by praising me.....not like family!

I have mentally built a fence and put all the toxic, or non-helpful, people on the other side. No one is allowed on my side without my permission. My daughter is and my thought for her is "She and I can exchange pleasant emails". Not damned much but it makes me think more highly of her.

In my honest opinion, the N suffers, in his/her own way because although we often think that they love themselves, they really hate themselves with a passion. That is why they need Supply from the unknowing victim.

I stopped mourning my loss some time ago and now live 2000 miles away from them all. I won't say I don't think of them, but I have a thought for the family as well. "They are good folks, no criminals and are human, have flaws and somewhere they must have a good point or two" then I let my mind drift away from them to something better.

Address me directly sun blue if I have been any help, please?

Love
Izzy


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