Called my mom's bluff

[Overcomer]

These are all good advise.  I did play into the dance didnt I cb?  She wants to communicate but whenever I communicate about anything I fall into her trap.  That is why I usually choose to NOT talk with her.  She gates the fact that I straight arm her but it is not safe to not.  Then I do unload my frustrations on her via email because it is a safer form of communication.  She always turns on the disapproval so I try to not go there.  I think I have pretty much shut her out and for that i good

[Ami]

Dear Kelly,
  Interacting with an NM is like being in a Alice in Wonderland world, where the rules keep changing. Things appear and disapear. When you say that you just SAW " them, the NM says,"No ,you didn't."
  It is  all illusions and lies.
  It is being  a world that makes no sense ,and in the end, YOU are at fault for daring to see the truth. It is the proverbial "no win" situation, Kelly.
  YOU are fine. YOU have good sense. It is her, Kelly, not you!!!!               Love    Ami

[Overcomer]

My H and I just had a huge fight.  My frussation over my mom has spilled over to him.  He does not help at all. I do all the laundry and cleaning and taking out the trash and paying bills etc.  So my d lost her license for a month so I asked him if he would drop her on the way to work.  No was his answer.  I alex up as I picked up HIS STUFF AND TOOK OUT THE TRASH !

[CB123]

  YOU are fine. YOU have good sense. It is her, Kelly, not you!!!! 

Ami, you are free to share your opinion--so please don't hear me trying to shut that down.  But I am rooting for Kelly here--and I really want to emphasize what I believe is true.  So PLEASE don't get offended when I disagree with you.

Kelly--it is you.  There's no way it is all her.  No, you are not fine.  This is a deadly dance and until you see your part in it, you are not going to be able to dance to your own song, in your own patch of sunlight. 

You can look at it as though she is dangling a hook that you always grab.  Or you can look at it as though you are dangling a hook that she always grabs.  Both are equally true.  The dynamic between you is very, very deep and well-entrenched.

You are having to manage your life entirely on your own.  You are dealing with an alcoholic husband that is worse than a kid.  You can't train him--heck, you can't even be sure he's listening.  Or that he will remember what you've said.  He's got a cushy situation here, and it is a huge wound for you to walk around with every day.

Your mom doesnt respect you--probably doesnt respect anyone.  Your daughter is autistic and is never going to be able to much adult support for you.  This is hard. It's understandable that you feel very, very alone.

Money could buy you some of what would make your life easier.  And your mom has money and sometimes, capriciously, she parts with it.  Sure, you have to put up with the way she makes you feel--but that's never going to change, right?  With or without money.  But, if you can get the funding, you can create a few sweet memories--a beautiful home, a wonderful celebrations for your daughter.  And in those things, you are going to have a bit of respite from the aloneness that you feel. 

I'm not sure you are making a bad choice.  I have made it myself.  And I think it was the right choice at the time.  But, you need to realize that you are keeping yourself locked to her and that you will never, ever get away.  And she will never ever be any different than she is now. 

It is you, Kelly.  If you can own that, you will feel so much more control over your life.  If you can look at the situation and admit that you are taking what comfort you can out of her money, then you can decide if you want to continue doing that, or if you want to stop.  Your H is another story--but you can look at that situation much the same way.

Much love to you, Kelly,
CB

[Hermes]

Hello O.C.  

" He does not help at all".  That in itself is a frustration, and I am at a loss to know why your H gets away with all this.

Hermes

[Overcomer]

So he says he does not get a say in anything and that I do not listen to him and I tell him because he gets drunk and pants and raves.  The responsibility for everything coupled with the extreme frustration is getting to me.  Right now I am part happy because I have my new business and part sad because I have dysfunctional people surrounding me!

[Gaining Strength]

OC, I am going to be direct.  You said, "The only thing I can do is change the way I respond to her.  "

You know what you need to do but you don't do it.  For months I have read your posts that sound as if you are on the vege of really taking in what people here have learned and applying it to your situation with your mother but week after week you then post your repeated pattern of engaging with her time after time.

You are correct when you say, "The only thing I can do is change the way I respond to her.  "  But now you must change how you respond.  Stop saying it and do it.

your friend - really - GS

[Hermes]

Dear O.C.

I have to go with G.S. on this one.  You say yourself: " the responsibility for everything coupled with the extreme frustration is getting to me". 
Sorry, O.C. But the bad news is that it will get worse.

You have heard the expression "enabling", I am sure.  Well, unfortunately, you are enabling these two, both your H and your M.

All the best
Hermes

[kelly as guest]

Well, well, well.  Advise HEARD!!  And I know it doesn't seem as if I am getting out of the situation and maybe I am not.  But I AM making stides to move along.  I have applied for so many jobs I cannot even count them anymore.  Several have almost panned out.  One did but it was out of the frying pan and into the fire and so I chose to go back.  I like what CB said in that maybe I have to bide my time until I can find a way out.  Maybe my new venture will be lucrative.....my hopes is that it is.  It makes me more passionate about it because I see it as a way out.

As far as the wedding, I decided I am going to set a budget that I can afford and then I am going to say to my mom......what do you want to contribute if anything?  I need a figure.......then give it to me and I will spend it as I see fit.  Otherwise I can see the mother of the groom and my mom going out of control and I get caught spending more than I can afford.

As far as my H?  He told me he would move out and I could fend for myself.  I was yelling as he walked out the door, "I already do everything so what difference would it make!!"  I also told him that he is drunk all the time so it is no wonder I ignore him.  He told me I ignore him and I do.  He gets on these drunken rants and I just cannot stand it.  He knows I need his part of the income but if I have to wait tables I will to make ends meet.  He is such a jerk.

And my mom?  Yes, it is a dance.  And yes, GS, it probably seems as though all I do is complain and complain and complain but I do not DO anything.  Sometimes I think when things quiet down that I can bear.  I just do what I need to do and hope that something will happen that will force my mom out of the business.  I know the bookkeeper told her, if we keep overspending then you will have to put money into the business every single month!!  I also told my mom it is only a matter of time until she is out of money.....

So I HEAR you and I will definitely think and TRY to move forward.  Right now I am very motivated with this business.  I had quite a bit of success with Arbonne and I was probably number 300 in Iowa - I am the first here!!!

[Leah]

Dear Kelly,

You have had truly awesome, sound, sensible, wise, life giving, advice.

All of which, I agree with.  "Getting out of Traction and into Action" is what works.   Continual verbalizing does nothing at all.

Kind nicey nicey words of "It's not you, it's her" and "I'm behind you" only serves to "enable" you to remain, where you are now.

Truth is, things can, and, will, only get worse, until final crunch time, when a crisis of some kind, inevitably unfolds, as it does, in life.

In all honesty, I too have read your posts, and have had the same thoughts, that you are "enabling", both your H and your M.

To the detriment of your own personal health, and emotional health, your own well being. 

Only you have the ownership of you, and your decison, regarding ownership of your own thoughts and actions. 

If I were to have a problem to share, for insight, and sensible support, then I would hope that the ones who have provided it here, on your thread, right now, would do the same for me.  "Telling it as it is."

Nicey nicey 'enabling' pats on the back of victim retention, and, perhaps, even, a patronizing "there there" -- never ever serves to pull someone out of a quagmire in life.

Truth and honesty, straightforward, sensible, with respect, and genuine consideration and care -- gives freedom to the proactive hearer, every time.

Life is for living, a life, in fullness.  Emotional health is precious.  Money cannot buy Emotional Health. 

All of which, shared, from personal life experience.

All the best for you, Kelly.

Love, Leah

[kelly as guest]

Well you used my favorite word "quagmire" so I guess now I have to listen!!

[Gaining Strength]

Overcomer - It is really not about what you do it is about how you respond.  You said it yourself, "The only thing I can do is change the way I respond to her.  "

Write wrote about marvelous technique to use in difficult, trying emotional confrontations.  That is a very good example of how you can change the way you respond to her.

Getting out of the situation you are in is not about changing jobs, it's not about having more money or more control or a different husband it is about "chang[ing] the way [you] respond." 

I just do what I need to do and hope that something will happen that will force my mom out of the business.

This is complete victimization.  You are not aware of having any power. You are just "hoping" that something will happen.  When you change the way you react to your mother you will begin to reclaim your power and you will begin to see what you can do for yourself.

Start with how you handle this reception.  Have a plan for how you will react, what you will do based on every possible response your mother might make.  You will have a plan.  Having a plan and following through is empowering.  Doing what you need to do and hoping is victimizing.  Yelling and screaming at your husband is disempowering for both of you.  You must stop.  You must get a plan and then act on it.  Do this without depending on the results.  Keep your focus on the action not on the results.  That will be empowering.

[Ami]

I agree that in any sick relationship, we both have our side of the dance. I was looking at it from the side of the M, which is sick. When Kelly,or I, or anyone dances WITH the person, we are part of the sickness.
   The answer,I guess, is NOT to dance---but to detach.
  I had a huge revelation about my H, today. I saw his side of the dance and I broke my part of it, in my mind.He doesn't know and I am not going to tell him,but I saw his side and  saw that I will not "play"(dance) ,anymore.
  I don't know the specifics yet,but I know that I saw the truth about the relationship and I am free ,inside. The "spell" was broken.
  I think that I pulled out from the dance. It had NO fanfare. I just saw it.
   After experiencing the worst tragedy possible(in many ways), I am "new" in the sense that I can't hold on to old ideas. They were what killed my son.
  I am seeing truth,in a way that I never did  before. S/how I got in to a different dimesion with this and I am no longer the same person,in many ways.
  I really can't explain it,b/c I don't understand it.
  It feels like my head opened from the top,like a cartoon character, and I can "see" differently.
 Scott would want me to break the patterns  that killed him.                 Ami

[Overcomer]

Well, right now I am an emotional wreck.  One of our key employees quit.  Another man who used to work for us is starting a business like our own and she is going to work for him.  But the reason I ran out of the office crying is because I cannot do it anymore.  The thought of sitting in another meeting with my mother and hearing her drone on and on and on about the same things is more than I can bear.  AND not to mention that, YES, I have allowed my H to be a complete drunk and then get defensive when I call him on his stuff.

I am hearing what you are all saying and I am beside myself.  I am balling right now and I cannot hold it back.  I feel trapped and you all tell me to DO something and I am trying but it seems everytime I try to DO something it is like a knee jerk reaction to everybody telling me to do something that it is not rational but reactional.

The thought of starting out a new year doing the same old thing we have been doing for 14 years is more than I can bear.  I mean it is making me CRAZY!!  I feel like I am being walked to the gas chamber and I am wrongly accused.  I feel like there is nothing I can do about this right now!!  Yes, I can look up jobs on careerbuilder.com.  I can apply and hope beyond hope that they will hire me and not work me into the ground.  I can be optimistic about my new business, but realistically it cannot happen for at least six months.  And without my H's paycheck I am further screwed.

So what do all you people with great advice suggest I DO??  Do you suggest I tell my mom to go screw herself and my h as well?  Do I just drop kick them and run the risk of not having any money??

Give me some ideas here.  Stop being a victim.  How?  If my mom calls me and asks me why I ran out crying my impulse is to say BECAUSE THE THOUGHT OF WORKING WITH YOU FOR ANOTHER YEAR IS MORE THAN I CAN BEAR!!  And if my H says, "Do you want a divorce?"  Should I say YES, I WANT A DIVORCE......YOU ARE A DRUNK AND YOU DO NOT HELP ONE IOTA AROUND HERE!!

So I set all my boundaries and then I have no job, no money and suddenly I am supposed to be emotionally healthy because of it?

CB said it.  She had to bide her time until the timing was right.  I AM setting boundaries towards my mom.  I confronted her on the "don't rain on their parade and you didn't have a budget for your wedding.." remark.  I told her FINE......I will have an inexpensive wedding reception.  Isn't that the right thing to do?  Why do you guys jump on me when I feel I AM trying to do this.  Yes, it IS frustrating because every time I make an escape attempt it does not come to fruition.  It is not as if I am complaining and not trying to get out of this.

I have more to think about than just me.  My youngest d is autistic.  Is it right to sell the house I just bought and move into an apartment?  Divorce my H?  Uproot everything just to make a point????

My reactions need to be less emotional.  I always get to this point where I cannot stand it anymore and then I go off the deep end.  I truly want freedom from my mom AND my h.  I REALLY want this business to make it so I can walk away from them both!!  I do!!!!!

[Ami]

I am so, so sorry you are hurting Kelly. ((((((((Kelly)))))))))))))))
                                                                                                         Love to You, Dear friend,   Ami