Pregnant N sent me away

[hardtotrust]

Thank you, thank you.

[hardtotrust]

I was just trying to get ready to answer the last posts, I received one SMS from her:

"You always judged me and condemned me. hard for me to share my expectations. believe time and god will appease my heart. far be it from me playing the victim."

 

I thought about complaining, remembering things she did and said etc, but decided to send something different:

"Cool, God can do everything for you, if you are in the mood to follow Him. Happy to hear that.Your expectations and longings were always satisfied and will continue to be. Right now everything is the way you chose them to be. Best wishes for you and the baby. I didn't forget what I heard about you being a great mother, it is a beautiful process."

Answer:

"Understood. be at peace, it's everything I also wish at this moment."

Frankly, I have no idea what she's thinking about. Looks like a test to see if I would run and try to talk to her about her expectations, without her having to talk, discuss about what happened before.

Earlier today, I was capable of remembering her and not having bad feelings, although I didn't forget how unworthy I was to her.

One thing is for sure, I have to admit. If she really wants me by her side during the pregnancy, I won't be able to say no. So far, so good, because she is still seated on her throne, waiting for me to go after her. For example, she never said she was sorry, that she needed me to help her or that she wanted to talk. The closer she got to was this message.

But if she takes a more direct approach...   

[papillon]

Wow Hardtotrust,

What a nightmare you're in. I don't even get most of it, but what I do shocks me.

I don't get them at all, the girlfriend, the mother, the lovers, the lot. They all sound severely damaged to me. I'm worried for the baby and the environment he or she is coming into with that lot.

If bubba is your, (hopefully you can find out DNA) I hope you can get sufficiently supported and boundaried to offer bubba the best possible world in that 'problemarena'.

Please believe this -  Just a healthy pappa alone can make all the difference and a happy life for a child .

But, as my old italian neighbour would say, "Yous a gonna needa lotta helpa".

I totally agree with what Izzy said, "I have been following this and would like for you to be the father. You two will never be a couple? She is an N? She will want what she wants!"

Unless she un-enmeshes from her mumma, gets help, learns to recognize her needs and need for male adoration is problematic, and unless she is serious about a life with you and gets help then there is not much hope of any happy life for you with her. It takes 2. That probably hurts but maybe not as much as the hurt that you're in for with more of the same from her.

What do you want Htt? Do you want a life with he problemsr? What's realistic for you?

But then, if bubba is yours, and is real, that's fantastic too and

CONGRATULATIONS!

Pop the champers somebody , Hardtotrust is maybe gonna be a pappa.

If it was me, I'd get over her real fast, then I'd become very bottom-line quickly, and get the wheels turning to give my child every opportunity for a healthy, heard and happy life - considering and regardless  - of the other players.

Big challenges and changes ahead for you. I hope you're okay. I'll read again later. Like I said, I don't get a lot of it.

Life is full of absurdities isn't it? Sometimes I think children are the only ones who 'get it".

I read this truly superb saying once  -  "Children are the ultimate Zen Masters". That is so so true.

((HTT))

Papillon


 

[Ami]

((((((((((((Hardtotrust)))))))))))))
From her messages alone, she seem very,very hard to deal with.
You sound like you have good sense, hardtotrust.
 The baby is fortunate to have you.
 Do you still love her and are hoping for  a relationship with her or have you given up that hope and are only focused on the baby?
                          Ami

[lighter]

::slapping forehead::

Ummmm... htt....

It sounds like you're not going to be able to keep a No Contact rule in place, keep your distance in the delivery room and that she'll have anything she desires from you.

She just may have to endure some whining, while she manipulates it forth.

Good luck with that.

[hardtotrust]

Oh Hardto trust,
  It is so sweet to see a man so excited about a baby. It warms my heart!                        Love to you,   Ami

Thank you, Ami. I guess I have never developed this side of my personality. I was the youngest of two brothers, there wasn't a baby around to get used to. Then, I was always afraid to have a baby, because I felt like I couldn't protect myself, imagine a baby. Now, in the last few years, I think everything repressed about forming a family is coming back full force. But I know it will be a challenge for me, one that I am willing to face as soon as possible.

Ummmm..... I used to collect baby clothes as a sort of hobby. 
...
Give yourself permission to be the best father you possibly can be.....
after the DNA test.
K?
If you can avoid turmoil, heartbreak and craziness.....
I think you should.

Cool. I remember now, a few years ago, knowing that she started thinking about babies, I bought her a pair of baby shoes. She had an on-and-off relationship, I was her friend. It was my contribution to her at the time, the first step.

Ok, the rational thing is to wait for the DNA. I am really afraid of what will happen if I let myself be used and discarded again (if the baby isn't mine). I don't know if I will be able to forgive myself. But right now, I am very fragile.

Just thinking of you, Hardtotrust.Sending you peace and well wishes.                                Warmly,    Ami

Thank you again, Ami. Yesterday I wasn't down, but I was so sad... I felt like crying all the time, had to hide many times at work. The messages here helped me a lot.

...
Be sad. 
Cry. 
Scream and rage.... complain here. 
Then make a very good plan you can stick with, no matter how low or fragile you get.
If you don't take control of your life...... you'll lose it.
...

Wow, Lighter, your post is simply wonderful, I'll read it many times, because I feel you said all the right things and since I am not very rational today, I really need some references.

I have been following this and would like for you to be the father. You two will never be a couple? She is an N? She will want what she wants! Are you nervous about that part of it, if the baby is yours?

Oh, Izzy, thank you. At first I would rather the baby isn't mine. Then there was doubt. Now I really want to be the father.

Yes, she is the most narcissistic person I ever met. Of course I only discovered the degree of narcissism after we started a relationship. I knew before she had problems, but never thought they were bigger than mine. The baby is due August, 5th.

[hardtotrust]

I hope you can get sufficiently supported and boundaried to offer bubba the best possible world in that 'problemarena'.
Please believe this -  Just a healthy pappa alone can make all the difference and a happy life for a child .

Papillon, those two phrases will become my mantras!!! That's all I have to cling to in this relationship.

Wow, everything you said is wonderful and wise, I'll read it again many times.

Thank you, thank you.

((((((((((((Hardtotrust)))))))))))))
From her messages alone, she seem very,very hard to deal with.
You sound like you have good sense, hardtotrust.
 The baby is fortunate to have you.
 Do you still love her and are hoping for  a relationship with her or have you given up that hope and are only focused on the baby?
                          Ami

Thank you, Ami. Thank you.
I hope I can make a difference in my baby's life, the way Papillon explained.
I really don't know what I feel for her right now, but my plans are all for the baby, not including her.

::slapping forehead::
....

...keep your distance in the delivery room and that she'll have anything she desires from you.

She just may have to endure some whining, while she manipulates it forth.

Lighter, I'm not sure I understood what you meant. Could you explain it to me a little more?
Thank you.

Thanks everybody for all the support.

Right now I feel uneasy, don't understand what's happening.

Hugs.

[lighter]

Your N is reaching out her feelers..... getting your attention..... having you engage with her in crazy making conversation..... so you're becoming more confused.

Instead, why not assume she's trying to engage with you, to confuse you, choose not to have any contact at all.....

by that I mean ZERO contact.

No e mail.

No Im's
No phone no face to face no messages from friends or relatives or nurses or the guy at the post office who's friendly with you both.

Just know that any contact is a trap and that if you engage you won't feel better you'll feel worse and more confused and you can't escape what bad feelings you have now by being in contact with her....

so get that straight in your mind and stop letting her drag you in.

If your plan is really to wait this out till the DNA test.... then do that.

If it's not..... then jump in anywhere.

It's up to you to set self protective boundaries.

The N wants to tear them down and it sounds like she'll be able to.... that you already know that and accept it.

I'm telling you what I see from here and the phrase....

"you can't save people from themselves" comes to mind.

I don't always dispence feel good advice..... if it's making you uncomfortable say so and I'll stop with the reality posts.

Beware women who approach you in your e mail.  That's my last piece of advice on this post.

(((hardtotrust)))  I understand where you are and I'm so sorry it has to hurt so much.

Lighter

[hardtotrust]

I just had a talk to a friend and...

Ouch! Back to earth!

It was shattering. We talked about the NLP "psychotherapist" that my ex-girlfriend and I went to last year. He was a key element in making me stay in the relationship.

It turns out he looks like an N, too. Has a long story of different "personas" (supermarket owner, car dealer, councilman etc), much like Sam Vaknim explains. Now he is acting like a cult leader, promising the cure to all your problems and even taking people off their medications. But many people are discovering the truth. He is not even a licensed therapist. This story itself could fill a book.

When my ex and I were together, one day she told me, while we were in her room, "Next session I will throw a condom on the table and tell him, If you want to do it, now is the time". As I was trying to recover from the shock, she said "Come on, you know I'm joking, I don't even use condoms".

Remembering these things and thinking about the possibilities, I woke up again. Let's just wait and keep the distance.

God, am I naïve...

Maybe saying here somethings that happened, it will be easier for you to understand how afraid I am of being humiliated again.

Thank you, Lighter, all your advice once again is wonderful.

Don't worry, I like reality posts, I know I need them, even if it takes a while to get them. You are really helping me. Your last post is exactly what I need now.

I'll read all the posts again today.

[dandylife]

hardtotrust: You wrote, "When my ex and I were together, one day she told me, while we were in her room, "Next session I will throw a condom on the table and tell him, If you want to do it, now is the time". As I was trying to recover from the shock, she said "Come on, you know I'm joking, I don't even use condoms".


Clarify: Is she saying to you that she is going to offer herself sexually to her NLP counselor at the next session?

That wasn't quite clear to me.

Sometimes, couples joke about sex like this and when they know each other well enough, it can be okay - as long as you have the same sense of humor?

However, alot of times, people with molestation or past sexual abuse issues will be inappropriate with sexual remarks and behavior. That's kind of what this sounds like to me. It sounds like she has some deep sexual issues - she's trying to appear "out there", "open", "unusually sexual". It's really just a mask. (IMO)

Dandylife

[hardtotrust]

Yes, she was saying that she was going to offer herself sexually, it was a somewhat frequent subject of discussion. She is a somatic N. I do believe she has past sexual abuse issues.

[Ami]

it is a really sad situation ,all around, Hardtotrust. I am really sorry,friend.                   Ami

[hardtotrust]

Thank you, Ami.

Right now, I feel I can't face the whole situation. And I guess it will always be difficult to me to accept that someone so close can lie and manipulate so much.

[Ami]

Yes, Hardto trust. It is a 'bite" dealing with N's---a huge bite ,a huge pain, sorrow, grief and angst right down to the bones. I wish I could take some of the pain away.
 I bet it is your baby and the baby will be a joy to you.
 That is the flower in the  'dirt",Hardtotrust.
 That is how I see it,anyway.         Love   Ami

[lighter]

I'm sorry she's humiliated you so badly.... I missed what it was that she did but.....

imagine how humiliating it would be to run around buying baby items, getting all happy and weepy in that delivery room.... plenty of photo ops with the new bundle of joy

then finding that you aren't the father. 

Do you think she'd keep that a secret if it turned out you weren't the father? (do you think you'd try?) Imagine her having that over your head, the child's head.

Do you think she'd beat you over the head with it, threaten you humiliate you when you weren't doing her bidding or making her happy (not that you could)?

Do you think she'll put your name on the Birth cert then use the fact that you may not really be the father to beat you emotionally the rest of your life?

I think the very best scenario is that you aren't the father. 

Please check with an attorney and see what your rights are.

If she puts your name on the cert.

If she doesn't.

If you turn out to be the father.

If you don't and you've allowed yourself to become involved and put on the certificate.

What if she goes all sweet and goopey just to get an emotional fix or financial support from you then her head starts spinning again, which is surely your future if you go back?

Is that the way you want to live?

I'm hoping you aren;t the father and you have the strength to take your lumps, learn your lessons and make a clean break for yourself.

90% research

10% execution

Do some homework.  Pay an attorney for a couple hours information so you can make informed decisions and be proactive in your life.

You may be the only sane parent this child has if it turns out to be yours.

Be prepared ahead of time and don't keep getting confused and all tied up in knots over whether you're the father or not.

It will be what it is.

Have your thoughts and plans settled before that time arrives, is my advice.

You don't have to be blown around the earth by your emotions.... you can practice putting boundaries in place and make decisions that aren't all about the heart.

You have your mind and your spirit to call strength from as well.

There are many stories here of weak manipulated silent fathers..... and how they impacted their children's lives.

You won't win with someone who has no empathy for you or her children. 

She won't ever be reasonable..... but she will pretend and make promises to get you in line.

End rant.... sorry so long.