Pregnant N sent me away

[Ami]

Thinking of you, today, Hardto trust!  My heart goes out to you in your heartache.                              Ami

[hardtotrust]

Yes, Hardto trust. It is a 'bite" dealing with N's---a huge bite ,a huge pain, sorrow, grief and angst right down to the bones. I wish I could take some of the pain away.
 I bet it is your baby and the baby will be a joy to you.
 That is the flower in the  'dirt",Hardtotrust.
 That is how I see it,anyway.         Love   Ami

What a bite, Ami. I am down. Just two messages and she did it again. I spend my time thinking how simple it would be to just sit, talk, understand and be happy. But, no.

Thank you!

imagine how humiliating it would be to run around buying baby items, getting all happy and weepy in that delivery room.... plenty of photo ops with the new bundle of joy
then finding that you aren't the father. 

Thank you for walking in my shoes, Lighter! You summarized it all.

And then, if that sequence of facts happens, in the end, after the truth is exposed, she would probably smile seductively  and say something equivalent to "Ooops!", and go away unaffected, as I have seen many times before. And if I complained, I would hear something like she “should have known that I had a bad temper" or that "if I have a problem with that I should see my therapist". Or maybe even one that I heard before: “But I never lied to you, you knew it all along. I don't need to lie to anyone.”

And the worst of all is that I am quite sure I won't be able to forgive myself if I let myself in that situation again. I don't think I would be able to move on. It is dangerous.

Do you think she'd keep that a secret if it turned out you weren't the father? (do you think you'd try?) Imagine her having that over your head, the child's head.
Do you think she'd beat you over the head with it, threaten you humiliate you when you weren't doing her bidding or making her happy (not that you could)?
Do you think she'll put your name on the Birth cert then use the fact that you may not really be the father to beat you emotionally the rest of your life?

It is possible that she would keep the secret. IMO that's what she went for when she hurried the wedding. That way it would be more difficult to raise suspicions and for me to get out when I found the truth. But that depends too much on who is the father. If it is a VIP she wouldn't keep it a secret.

Actually, I think she would do same she is doing now. Rewriting the script (as in Narcissistic Lovers). She would imagine she never did anything wrong, would try to get together with the real father, if she wasn't successful would accuse me of damaging her life and so on, the same way I heard about her “ex”, he was the bad guy, that prevented her from marrying her former ex (later I heard from a friend the same story, me being the bad guy now, that took her away from her fiance...). She wouldn't remember that she suggested that we live together, that she promised to be my family, nothing.

If it is a young lover with no credentials, the reaction might be different and even after a negative DNA, the official story, to uninformed people, could be that it is mine and I left her, for example.

If I get too much involved, it is possible that I would help her keep the secret. And yes, I'm sure she would use it to humiliate me and keep control.

BTW, I was lucky that, just after she sent me away, I heard a story of a friend who thought it was his baby when it was born, he was happy, thought that the baby looked like him. DNA. No, it wasn't his. He couldn't go away, he was too involved with the baby and the mother. Had a second baby. DNA. No, again it wasn't his. He had to distance himself from his friends. And now she's spending his heritage. Not a bright perspective. I understood this story as a BIG warning.

According to the law here, she can't put my name on the Birth Cert if I don't agree. I would be notified and then I would legally ask for the DNA. That would be perfect.

But remember, she's so manipulative that even if the baby is really mine, she might avoid the DNA and say it isn't so to punish me for not being obedient.

So, yes, I have been in contact with a lawyer and I have been researching about it. I found a similar case, I'm trying to get a copy of it.

I think the very best scenario is that you aren't the father.

Most people say that, some are praying for it. I surrendered. Whatever God decides. If it is not mine, it will be the final punch, but I will be free and have the opportunity to forget about it all. If it is mine, it will be the flower in the dirt, as Ami said, and I may write a book called “NC while raising a child with an N”!

What if she goes all sweet and goopey just to get an emotional fix or financial support from you then her head starts spinning again, which is surely your future if you go back?
 

That is my biggest fear and the most certain thing to happen. Everyday I think about the day I'll receive a call that she's giving birth to the baby. What should I do? There's no correct answer.
Thanks again, Lighter. Your post isn't long, it has all the best advice I need these days.

Thinking of you, today, Hardto trust!  My heart goes out to you in your heartache.                              Ami

Thank you again, Ami!

Always good to know somebody cares. 

Today I miss her...

Hugs to everybody.

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

Thanks for your thanks.

Questions?

Have you been in any serious (unfortuanately that also usually means expensive  ) 'let's get-down-and-dirty' face-to-face therapy with an empathetic skilled psychologist  re- your own voicelessness/invisible issues you mentioned? You said your parent's were N and you were always invisible. Have those wounds healed yet?
Also, I was just wondering have you done any co-dependency therapy or enmeshment therapy. Like I said, just wondering? No offence intended.

Thanks
Papillon

Edit - adding that I noted you'd been in joint therapy with her and and NLP therapist. My questions were more to do with your own personal stuff, not joint stuff. Just wanted to clear that up. Thanks

[hardtotrust]

Hi Papillon!

I have been in therapy for about 20 years (not all the time, but always returning). The first four years were extremely good, the rest was garbage, shallow therapists that just want your money.

You defined exactly the kind of therapy I've been looking for: "serious 'let's get-down-and-dirty' face-to-face therapy with an empathetic skilled psychologist".

When I went to the NLP therapist, my intention was to do regression and Erickssonian Hypnosis, but as mentioned before he is a fraud, doesn't know anything about the subject.

I was seeing a psychoanalyst, she is good, knows the stuff, but wasn't capable of focusing on my original pain, everytime we started that, a few minutes later she would be telling me some story about a patient or her life, rambling.

Now I have the phone number of a guy specialized in regression, I am considering it.

I have read a lot about codependency, improved a lot.

I don't think my deepest wounds have already healed. I think I have been able to face them more clearly only a few years ago. I also understand now that I have been depressed most of my life, isolating myself and afraid to get out of my home, afraid of people.

Worse than that, besides the wounds, I worry about the conditioning. I see now that I was able to suffer so much abuse from this ex because that is exactly what my mother conditioned me to. She just had to pull the levers. Now, I feel like a slave that has been freed but just can't get out of the house of his master.

Thank you! Hugs.

[lighter]

Crap. 

You're right. 

There are no good answers..... if this is your baby OR if you allow yourself to included in this woman's life if it's not your child.

I can tell you from experience...... avoidance is your only rational choice..... should this not be your child.

If it is....... I don't want to read your book of heartbreak, sorrow, confusion and struggle to be understood while your child suffers in the middle of chaos, however quiet that chaos can be made by your complete capitulation.

Look around this board..... again I ask you.... and see what the children of N women, and the men who live their lives to calm that storm, grow up to deal with.

I must say.... I have more empathy for those men.... who's children have grown to lable them weak..... unwilling to protect them. 

But, you see, trying to stand up to a person who cares only for themself and some bent handful of sick needs..... means you actually cause more damage to the innocents.

Tryijng to protect them causes collateral damage. 

You have to leave the child home alone with that nut..... you can't be there at every moment to protect her.  You won't want the nut in a rage when you leave for work....

so you'll towe the line and things will spiral into something you saw coming. 

Can's say you didn't.

Nope.... I don't want to read that book.

[Ami]

Thinking of you, hardtotrust!!!!!                                  Hugs to you,  Ami


(((((((((Hardtotrust)))))))))

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

I hope you don't mind but I've moved this post out from your thread over to member stories. I was reflecting on the post I wrote and I've felt quite uncomfortable about it. Here's how I see it. My therapy stuff really isn't inappropriate here, and it was completely off the topic of your current situation and what's going on, which is the really important issue in this thread. Therapy talk, - maybe we can have that chat at a later date when the air clears  a bit for you, and when you know where you stand with bubba 

What's happened is I'm concerned that I have inconsiderately hijacked your thread and turned it into 'Narcissism Central'  about me, meaning posting my story and my therapy experience.  What's going on in your life is so destabiliizing for you, and I realize embarrassed emoticon just how important it is to stay on topic with you. I'm feeling it must be so incredibly difficult for you at the moment. I hope you're okay today, and I'm sorry for going on about me.

Thanks
Papillon

[Ami]

WOW Papillion,
  You ARE a butterfly who came out of the catepillars cocoon. What an uplifting story!!!!            Love   Ami

[hardtotrust]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ami, Lighter, Papillon, Izzy))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I just don't know how to thank everybody for all the support, attention and time I've been given by the people in this board.

I'm reading very carefully the previous posts before answering. Thank you!

Just an update. Felt like stating that all present situation is her responsability, sent her an SMS:

"Just to make it clear: the present situation is 100% your choice. Hope you know what you are doing, because there is no turning back. It wasn't me who chose to get away from you and the baby".

Answer: "OK, just stay calm"

Me: "What do you mean?"

Answer: "patience, I feel that the distance has been an ally. in the divine hands we won't escape what's destined for us.kisses"

Me:"I remember quite well what you were doing the last time you asked me something like that, to wait. But you said one thing that is right, surrender it to God, do nothing".

The last time she told me something like that, she said she wasn't seeing anyone, later I discovered she was involved with a 20 year old, then, confronted, she said she never lied.

Answer: "I'm working a lot and with a big belly. I've been taking courses for distraction. Nothing more".

That time, sometimes I invited her to go out at night, she said she had to go to her course, it was very important for her. That's where she was seeing the guy. When I took courses in the same place, she had the guts to treat me like a boyfriend, kiss me good bye and then return to stay with the guy.

Going back to my books on N.

[Ami]

Dear Hardto trust,
 You must be replaying FOO(family of origin) patterns in this relationship(IMO). It seems that you are replaying betrayal, abandonment, pain,being disrespected, etc.
 For me, my friend is helping me to see my FOO patterns and as I do I feel more and more free and more whole.
 I think it is like the quote,"He that does not learn from the past is condemned to repeat it(paraphrase).
 I am so sorry, Hardtotrust.
 Something else that has been "hitting" me for awhile,but it is hard to say, is that I think it is a revelation for you how much you want a child ,in general,and how important it is to you.Maybe, you did not know this before.Am I right or wrong?.
 I think that you have discovered another part of yourself, the nurturing, softer emotional side, that you might not have known was there. I have felt this for awhile ,but felt funny saying it b/c of the tragedy in your present circumstances.
 As we say ,on the board, "compost what does not fit"(lol)
 I am thinking of you, hardto trust ,and wishing the best that CAN be, in this situation , and for you ,personally.     Love to you,   Ami

(((((((((hardtotrust)))))))))))

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust  ,

How far along is the pregnancy now? There mustn't be too much time to go. Are you functioning okay at work? Are sleeping/eating okay? Are you socializing? I'm just wondering how you're going. Also, you may have already answered this and apologies in advance if I've missed it, but has she agreed to baby being DNA tested after birth?

Thinking of you
Papillon

Edit - PS to Izzy and Ami,
Thankyou for your kind words.

 

[hardtotrust]

Hi Papillon,

154 days until the due date. Functioning terribly a work... Not able to concentrate. I am sort of punishing myself, reading and listening to things related to babies and paternity, like this: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-hospice28jan28,0,4777090,full.story?coll=la-homepage-calendar-widget

I'm ending that.

Sleeping - more or less, trying to get off natural sleeping pills, able to sleep around 3 A.M. Socializing - a little, but every morning it is terrible to get out of bed and face people.

She has agreed to DNA, but that means nothing. Later she said she expected I didn't raise the issue of paternity again. I'm not counting on her good will, preparing for legal measures.

Today I am trying NC again, sent a message saying that will only deal with facts, not promises, that I am not her backup, and that someone will get in touch with her at the right time.

But overall I am incredibly better than two months ago!

Sorry for the short answers, didn't want to miss the moment.

Still reading the previous posts carefully.

Thank you!

Hugs!

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrsut,

Just quickly, and in case you missed it, I wanted to let you know I moved the therapy post. Hope you're okay with that. This thread is too important. Will get back to you later.

(((Hardtotrust)))
Papillon

[hardtotrust]

There are no good answers..... if this is your baby OR if you allow yourself to included in this woman's life if it's not your child.

I can tell you from experience...... avoidance is your only rational choice..... should this not be your child.

And even if it's my child, I won't be able to be a good father or example while being in a destructive relationship with the N mother, the way you explained above.

I agree. Avoidance is the rational choice and after some contacts in the last days, I'll try to be more rational again.

Right now, I think there is a positive way of seeing things: in a few months I may be granted a child! I would like to have one. It won't be possible to be very present in the first years, but OK.

If it is....... I don't want to read your book of heartbreak, sorrow, confusion and struggle to be understood while your child suffers in the middle of chaos, however quiet that chaos can be made by your complete capitulation.

Ooh, GREAT, Lighter! Now I'll have to deal with my rejection as a writer as well!   

Look around this board..... again I ask you.... and see what the children of N women, and the men who live their lives to calm that storm, grow up to deal with.

I must say.... I have more empathy for those men.... who's children have grown to lable them weak..... unwilling to protect them. 

But, you see, trying to stand up to a person who cares only for themself and some bent handful of sick needs..... means you actually cause more damage to the innocents.

Tryijng to protect them causes collateral damage. 

Can you help me with that? Mentioning some examples that you think would be more specific for me? Forum names, threads that I should look for? If you think it is more appropriate, please PM me.

Thank you! Hugs!

[hardtotrust]

Thinking of you, hardtotrust!!!!! (((((((((Hardtotrust)))))))))

Thank you, Ami!

I hope you don't mind but I've moved this post out from your thread over to member stories.

Papillon, you are unbelievable gentle. I see no problem in your posting your story here. I understood it as sharing. You were offering something very personal and helpful. And I relate to your story very much. Please, be free to repost it here anytime you want, but it was a good idea to ALSO post it in Personal Stories because more people will be able to access it.

Thank you, Papillon!

Dear Hardto trust,
You must be replaying FOO(family of origin) patterns in this relationship(IMO). It seems that you are replaying betrayal, abandonment, pain,being disrespected, etc.

Guilty!

Something else that has been "hitting" me for awhile,but it is hard to say, is that I think it is a revelation for you how much you want a child ,in general,and how important it is to you.Maybe, you did not know this before.Am I right or wrong?
 I think that you have discovered another part of yourself, the nurturing, softer emotional side, that you might not have known was there. I have felt this for awhile ,but felt funny saying it b/c of the tragedy in your present circumstances.
 As we say ,on the board, "compost what does not fit"(lol)
 I am thinking of you, hardto trust ,and wishing the best that CAN be, in this situation , and for you ,personally.     Love to you,   Ami
(((((((((hardtotrust)))))))))))

Ami, I don't know how to thank you for such sweet words.
You are right. I have discovered my nurturing, softer emotional side on the last few years (as in Stitch's story), but only in the last months I really understood how much this issue of having a child has become important to me.
But your words made me feel this issue very strongly now. 
Can I say something?
I just wanted to belong.
I have never felt I was part of something. I never belonged.
The story of the Ugly Duckling - only in my thirties I learned about the end of the story. I didn't know it most of my life. I only learned the first part, about not belonging. I guess I repressed the rest, maybe. Then I learned the end  (as in Stitch's story).
That's why it was so important to me when she promised she would be my family. It was all I ever wanted. I would be part of something.
Now, if there's at least my child, it may mean something, not a whole family, but someone I can be there for. To listen, to validate, to reaffirm, to care for.

Thank you again, Ami.