Healthy community

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Amen, CB! 

Richard

[teartracks]

Hi CB,

Wonderfullly said and painfully true.

What's wrong with admitting that we are selfish, self-absorbed?  That we gossip sometimes?  That we arent completely loyal friends?  Why do we feel as though we have to prove that we are perfect in order to be accepted? I have been, I have done all those things.  But it isnt the sum-total of who I am.  I am bigger than those things.  I am constantly turning a corner in a labyrinth and coming across something unexpected.  I am dirty and I have skinned knees.  I have a bloody nose.  Sometimes I hurt people coming around the corner, sometimes I help them up.  Sometimes I dont realize who I ran over until I look back.  Jeez, I'm a mess.

Thank you so much for your sobering input.

Last night I watched Mia Farrow's biography on Lifetime.  She said this that struck me as truth in my life experience and especially in light of all that transpired  on the board recently.

“I get it now; I didn't get it then. That life is about losing and about doing it as gracefully as possible... and enjoying everything in between.”

So, I'm agreeing.  I get it that Just because everyone in the community is not behaving well, doesn't mean that the community itself is unhealthy.

Almost every time there is 'conflict' like the one this week, I write what has come to sound even to me like a tired form letter chastising members for not being heads up and for not self monitoring more effectively with the whole of the VESMB community in mind.   I never feel really heard when I fire out these retorts.  (I now realize, I wasn't saying what was in my mind clearly.)  So today, I'm going to try and speak my fear in a way that won't insult reason.

 Here goes:  Back toward the end of the  ReallyMe days, someone said something to the affect (or is it effect) that a board they had participated on had been reduced to a handful of women because of the destructive activity of person(s) bent on destroying the board.  In other words, a perfectly good board had been destroyed by conflicts intentionally introduced for that very purpose.  Destroy, destroy, destroy.   You see, when I fire out my same ole, same ole retort during conflicts, it is not because I object to people who are at the stage you describe here: I think that there are some members here that are crashing and burning and that it is not a negative thing at all.  They are crashing and burning on their way to a lot of insight.  That's a good thing.  Painful to watch though. Rather, it is because I fear that the best place I know for those exact people to experience what you describe is under attack and that they and I may be but one conflict away from having this soft place to fall.   My fear is not of the conflict bound to come from these who've suffered untold abuse.  My fear is that VESMB will be reduced to a handful of like minded members who have for whatever reason (perhaps the herd mentality), agreed not to disagree, bent on thereby, converting the best board in existence on voicelessness to one of exclusion.  If you don't agree with the handful, you're out!  People who spend their  time smoozing and blowing kisses to one another endlessly.  My one and only fear is that VESMB's effectiveness will be reduced to THAT!    I may be wrong, but I think I'm observing a shorter elapsed time between conflicts and a movement to exclusiveness.  As much as I would like to think that my fears have no real foundation, when it's all said and done and I've said my piece, that's what everything I've said about conflict on the board  is  about.  Threats to the very existence of the board is my overall and somewhat consuming concern.    Blessed or cursed, I see the big picture.  Be it blessed or cursed, I tend to look at the big picture.  I remain a, sometimes scorned, defender of VESMB as best I understand its intended function.

A remaining question may be, tt, do you have a person or persons in mind as you write this.  The answer is no.  Do I become suspicious as conflicts manifest?  Edit in:  As regards the foregoing, you betcha.  Do I think I have the market cornered on discernment?  No.  Do I think that what I've said here necessitates a response from anyone?  No.  Do I think that what I have to say has merit and bears consideration?  Yes. 

tt

[Leah]

What is Conflict and is it Healthy or not ?                  I simply need to know!  Love to ALL, Leah


Conflict is a state of opposition, disagreement or incompatibility between two or more people or groups of people.

In political terms, “conflict” refers to an ongoing state of hostility between two or more groups of people.

Conflict as taught for graduate and professional work in conflict resolution commonly has the definition: “when two or more parties, with perceived incompatible goals, seek to undermine each other’s goal-seeking capability”.

One should not confuse the distinction between the presence and absence of conflict with the difference between competition and co-operation.

In competitive situations, the two or more parties each have mutually inconsistent goals, so that when either party tries to reach their goal it will undermine the attempts of the other to reach theirs. Therefore, competitive situations will by their nature cause conflict.

 However, conflict can also occur in cooperative situations, in which two or more parties have consistent goals, because the manner in which one party tries to reach their goal can still undermine the other.

A clash of interests, values, actions or directions often sparks a conflict.

Conflicts refer to the existence of that clash.


Psychologically, a conflict exists when the reduction of one motivating stimulus involves an increase in another, so that a new adjustment is demanded. The word is applicable from the instant that the clash occurs. Even when we say that there is a potential conflict we are implying that there is already a conflict of direction even though a clash may not yet have occurred.

Stress and conflict are a normal part of life, and healthy behaviour involves the ability to cope and adapt.

 Psychologists make a distinction between --  behaviour that successfully defends and copes  -- and behaviour that fails to adapt and resolve conflict.





Edit in:   Now, I know, understand what Conflict really is all about.

Love to ALL,   Leah

[lighter]

I get it..... Thru conflict we are learning effective and healthy ways of using our voices. We are learning what works and what doesn't! We are learning good communications skills....

Oops

It'll be interesting to see what we've learned....

when next,a newcomer, braves the board.

Food for thought.

Lighter

[Leah]

I get it..... Thru conflict we are learning effective and healthy ways of using our voices. We are learning what works and what doesn't! We are learning good communications skills....

Oops

Hi Oops,

Great to read you and truly hope all is well with you.

But, the odd thing is though ...

that during my life long experience of learning good communication skills

they were most certainly NOT learned via conflict !!


And, I really do value and appreciate that of which the professionals i.e. the Psychologists have to say ..........

Stress and conflict are a normal part of life, and healthy behaviour involves the ability to cope and adapt.

 Psychologists make a distinction between  --   behaviour that successfully defends and copes  --  and behaviour that fails to adapt and resolve conflict.

Love to ALL

Leah

[Certain Hope]

Dear tt,

I appreciate your post.. and I agree.

Most of all, I appreciate you.

Love,
Carolyn

[CB123]

Rather, it is because I fear that the best place I know for those exact people to experience what you describe is under attack and that they and I may be but one conflict away from having this soft place to fall.   My fear is not of the conflict bound to come from these who've suffered untold abuse.  My fear is that VESMB will be reduced to a handful of like minded members who have for whatever reason (perhaps the herd mentality), agreed not to disagree, bent on thereby, converting the best board in existence on voicelessness to one of exclusion.  If you don't agree with the handful, you're out!

I know, Teartracks.

And that could really happen.  I like the way you are facing that fear head on and saying it out loud.  I think that helps--at least it does me, when I do it. 

If it does--if VESMB changes into what you fear, it will burn itself out.  If the energy that is fueling this conflict is the actual presence of conflict, it wont be able to thrive without it.  It's like a fire that burns itself out when the materials that fueled it run out.  Rage that has no remaining target will turn on itself. 

I may be wrong, but I think I'm observing a shorter elapsed time between conflicts and a movement to exclusiveness

I think you're probably right--but I think that may be because the conflict is fueled mainly in PM land, so it may not be time-between-conflicts.  It may be ongoing and has never really ended.  So what you are seeing is not a new conflict, but a flame shooting up from an undergrown fire that continues to burn. 

Be it blessed or cursed, I tend to look at the big picture.  I remain a, sometimes scorned, defender of VESMB as best I understand its intended function.

I know.  I think the big picture is important and I think we need people who see it.  Step back and bit and get the bigger picture. VESMB will be here for as long as we need it to be here.  We are VESMB.  When we are ready to let it go, we will.  If we still need it, it will be here.  I don't think that anyone can actually shut it down.  Most of the really messy stuff is probably not even happening on the board--most of it seems to be behind the scenes. 

Hang in there, TT.  You've been here a long, long time.  You've seen a lot.  This too shall pass.

Love

CB

[Leah]

Hi folks,

Well, I really don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and I truly don't wish to be privy or included with whatever it may be, or not?

Personally, I don't assume.

I would so love to share of the beautiful uplifting PM that awaited me this morning from a member who has been 'lurking' -- the Bible verse therein was pure delight.


I am grateful for ALL the uplifting and encouraging words expressed, exchanged and shared here, and knowing some genuinely lovely, kind, sincere gentle hearted friends that I have made here.


What is paramount to during this stage of personal healing journey is that of spiritual healing, of which, I am thankful.


"God Bless You"   (((((((( everyone )))))))))


Sincerely wishing everyone a truly Wonderful Peaceful Sunday.


Love to ALL,

Leah

[Overcomer]

I think I have figured it out.  When I am strong I will add a word of encouragement or advise.  When I am weak I will listen.  I will try to avoid reading posts from the same few and will try to get to know people who only pop up every so often.  I will avoid those people who rub me wrong and will try to avoid making the thread about me even if the situation reminds me of my life.  If I do draw comparisons I will bring it back to their situation and try to offer support.  I will love and respect

[Leah]

Hi folks,

Gosh, it's a bit too hot in the garden for me today, though I am not complaining, the sunshine is more than welcome after so much rain lately.

However, whilst sitting in the garden peacefully, listening to the birds and hearing children's laughter in the distance, I pondered awhile on what has sadly occurred here on the board today in a relatively short period of time -- seemingly all in an instant.

This is what I don't understand ...

Today:  Chronology of Choice of Words – and the final outcome

   A personal thread is created with the choice of the “ We “ statement.

   The much discussed, and as I understand, recommended use of the  “ I “ statement was not used.

   Thereby, understandably, questions and responses of clarification will occur - as did happen.

   A member posts that to question the creator of the thread - is 'absolutely out of order’ kind of thing -- directed at the two members.
 
   One member then responds – highlighting the full context of her post.

   The second member receives an acknowledgement response posting from  the thread topic creator and all appears well, and in addition, and in conclusion, the member expresses words of encouragement and thanks, with blessings, for something that she learned from the thread topic creator.

   The second member responds to the member who had chimed in with an admonishment -- and in doing so, merely expresses her feelings of being wrongly perceived.

Final Outcome:

The second member is informed (with notification to the board owner) on a separate new thread, that a boundary has been set, and that henceforth, she cannot post or make reference to the thread topic owner.


http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=8017.0 

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=8021.0

This is truly so sad to see here right now, today.

Am I missing something?  I really don’t understand “why?” all of this had to be.

Truly, I am bewildered.

Love to ALL

Leah


Why?   Are we seemingly devouring one another?   



Edit in:   By the way, this, my posting, is of independent thought, and coincidently, there is a certain newish thread out on the board -- of which I have only just noticed, and read.   Thank you, Leah.


>>    In actual fact, I am one of the two members who received the admonishment.

[lighter]

Hi Leah:

Thanks for being so concerned that you've inserted yourself, once again, in something that doesn't concern you.

I'm unable to deal with more conflict or appearance of such.

So, I'm drawing boundaries with everyone I feel I need to.

My choice is to step around, gently, or leave the board.

I understand your need to understand, but.... we don't always get that satisfaction, do we?

Lighter

Hi folks,

Gosh, it's a bit too hot in the garden for me today, though I am not complaining, the sunshine is more than welcome after so much rain lately.

However, whilst sitting in the garden peacefully, listening to the birds and hearing children's laughter in the distance, I pondered awhile on what has sadly occurred here on the board today in a relatively short period of time -- seemingly all in an instant.

This is what I don't understand ...

Today:   Chronology of Choice of Words – and the final outcome

   A personal thread is created with the choice of the “ We “ statement.

   The much discussed, and as I understand, recommended use of the  “ I “ statement was not used.

   Thereby, understandably, questions and responses of clarification will occur - as did happen.

   A member posts that to question the creator of the thread - is 'absolutely out of order’ kind of thing -- directed at the two members.
 
   One member then responds – highlighting the full context of her post.

   The second member receives an acknowledgement response posting from  the thread topic creator and all appears well, and in addition, and in conclusion, the member expresses words of encouragement and thanks, with blessings, for something that she learned from the thread topic creator.

   The second member responds to the member who had chimed in with an admonishment -- and in doing so, merely expresses her feelings of being wrongly perceived.

Final Outcome:

The second member is informed (with notification to the board owner) on a separate new thread, that a boundary has been set, and that henceforth, she cannot post or make reference to the thread topic owner.


http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=8017.0 

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=8021.0

This is truly so sad to see here right now, today.

Am I missing something?  I really don’t understand “why?” all of this had to be.

Truly, I am bewildered.

Love to ALL

Leah


Why?   Are we seemingly devouring one another?   



Edit in:   By the way, this, my posting has no relation or bearing on a certain newish thread out on the board -- of which I have only just noticed, and read.   Thank you, Leah.

[sKePTiKal]

OK, I've thought about this - about my participation on the board. Originally when I arrived here, I had worked through most of my emotional issues in therapy and hoped that I would find reassurance & support as I continued my journey of healing here. Turns out there was more emotional work to do - but none of it as debilitating as what I went through in therapy.

Have to say I've found that reassurance and more - I've found some funny, interesting, thought-provoking friends! People that I respect when they tell me I'm chasing my own tail - missing the obvious - or deceiving myself, even if I don't know them that well - or them, me. In the process, I've spent a lot of time on the board... posting, reading, learning, trying to help where I can, even if it's just commisseration and understanding. And it's been more time than I can afford to spend, in the future. I am re-engaging myself in 3-D... and taking care of things that slipped off my priority list, while I was working to get where I am today in self-acceptance.

CB is right that conflict is a normal part of any human group... and that healthy conflict helps us grow. Seen it happen, in 3-D.

Where I take issue with accepting the board's conflict of the past year, is that it has been normal. What I mean is, that I don't believe it's healthy or normal for people to try to control HOW people interact with them. I think NC is a good policy, if two people are rubbing each other the wrong way or are so far apart in their journeys that "never the twain shall meet".

On the other hand - for person A to dictate to person B the definition of help, constructive criticism, empathy, or any other interaction - and to play the victim, over & over again if people don't follow those "rules" of interacting with person A - yes, I mean Ami - only serves to put the "needs" of one person above the common good of the group. And I would question those "needs"... because most of us found our way here in the first place, BECAUSE someone "needed" to control us. I believe Ami's need to be the victim in all disputes manifests as a self-created, self-fulfilling prophecy and the consequent tippy-toeing around (walking on eggshells) we all do because of this, isn't a very healthy relationship at all and it has been impacting the health of the community, as well. It becomes an obstacle to newbies - in that it provides a confusing experience of what the board is like, and what could be a valuable resource for many.

So... while my decision to spend less time here is based on my own individual progress and needs and not the negative stuff, I did want to say plainly and simply why these conflicts - always with Ami at the center of them - bother me. I keep hoping that maybe "this time" she'll hear what people are trying to give to her... and that she hasn't cornered the market on feelings, bad experiences & pain - we all have our stories to tell, too. But this, for me, is like hoping my mother will someday tell the truth about what happened to me and what she did to me "for my own good". And I'm ready to let that struggle go....

[Ami]

Dear Amber
 I think you brought up a profound point.
 I think we are ALL playing out OLD dramas using each other. That and mainly that is what causes our fights.
 I am glad you brought up this point, Amber. It is good to see the futility of replaying old patterns.
          Ami

[Izzy_*now*]

hi PR
I hope you are not leaving but spending less time is good.....for me anyway.

Your last post was right on target. I couldn't agree more.

Now I see that Ami agrees to a profound point. Hmm! Which point, Ami? Then you put All of us in the fray. Not at all true since there are those people to never enter the fray.

PR. I especially like your post, as I feel that my thoughts are further validated.

Izzy

[sKePTiKal]

Izzy, my dear! No, I won't go completely away - I have too many new friends here... I just won't be a regular anymore.
You can always reach me in PM-land...