Author Topic: replaying N wounds blocks healing  (Read 6513 times)

Gaining Strength

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replaying N wounds blocks healing
« on: September 07, 2008, 04:02:08 PM »
The wounds that N parents inflict on their children generate specific brain patterns that are alterations of the normal patterns.  those patterns are reflections of dysfunction - they interrupt the "rational", reasoned processing of experiences.  N parents wounding is not rational.  It calls "love" what is nothing close to love which is nurturing and support and protection and providing sustenance.

Once the pattern is invoked it effects the way that children of Ns process everything - including behavior from people who are not Ns.  The great tradgedy of this is that children of Ns have a tendency to face the world as though everyone in it were an N and these children of Ns become locked into destructive patterns that stand in the way of healing.  So difficult to see through new "lenses" but essential.  Healing IS seeing through new lenses.

For me - the key to healing is the 2nd Agreement from don Miquel Ruiz's toltec wisdom:
2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

Anyone here made progress in this endeavour?  Would you share how you do it?

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 04:24:58 PM »
from the book review inHops: Suffering

"Victor Frankl, a Viennese psychologist and neurologist, survived three concentration camps but, in the same stretch, lost both his parents, his brother and his young wife. His response was not to subside into despair but to pay closer and closer attention to what was going on about him and, even more particularly, inside him."

Frankl seems to have figured it out.

from the book review:
"A week before he killed himself, my friend Pat met me for lunch. Halfway through the meal, he looked up from his burger and said, "I'm already afraid you're going to leave." I reassured him as best I could, but ultimately, I did leave -- life couldn't be put off -- and when I look back, I can see what a relief it was to go. His pain in that moment was more than I could bear. And ultimately more than he could bear. "


I'm stuck in this last place - sometimes Pat and sometimes the author - waiting from someone to relieve my pain or hoping to relieve someone else's.  The only way I can see to real healing is Frankl's.

I have come here day in and day out trying to find some kindred spirit to hold my pain and to recognize it.  That endeavour never lifts me up, usually leaves me empty and longing for more connection - like an addiction.  Frankl transcended - my being feels greater "comfort" with Pat and Louis.  That's where I have to make the changes.

Hopalong

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 10:05:21 PM »
Hi (((((((((((SS))))))))))))))

Have you read Frankl's major work, Man's Search for Meaning?

It was huge for me.

love to you, lots...

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 10:17:50 PM »
No but I am thinking that it is a must for me at this time in my life.  Your Suffering post was so timely for me.  It was what I needed to hear at this juncture in my healing.  Such a gift of coincidence.  Thank you and the cosmos.

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 11:48:07 AM »
I was in significant distress last night and this morning and turned to EFT to try to get to the source.  After some work I got to the message that in my FOO I was choosing between "condemnation" and "rejection" on an unconscious level with every thought and act. 

The preference was "condemnation" and I have lived into that all the while experiencing both.  the fear of both is paralyzing to me.  Breaking free of these is essential to healing for me.

Ami

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 12:01:26 PM »
For me, SS, under shame is grief. I have tremendous grief at how my life went, most specifically how I was betrayed by the 3 people whom I should have been able to trust.
 I am seeing my F ,now. He betrayed me as badly as my M,but his exterior was nicer.
 He told me that he didn't help me when I was being abused b/c no one helped him. I thought he loved me and cared for me,but he saw me being hurt and did not care.
 He really did not care.
 When I told him that my door was broken down repeatedly when my H was in a rage he said,"That is life."
 He did not care and does not care.
 I am grieving that,now.
 Underneath, I feel more real and have less shame.
 The pain is horrible, but I felt it as a child and repressed it.
 It is a pain that is as bad as a death.
     Ami
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

sKePTiKal

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 12:02:40 PM »
Philosophically speaking, I think the buddha was correct: Desire is the cause of all suffering. (And attachment, in the psychological sense, can usually be boiled down to desire.)

Replaying the old wounds is useful only in the sense that we can see with adult eyes what we couldn't understand as children. Then, as now, I believe the suffering from those wounds is caused by desiring what is impossible: that our parents be normal, loving; decent human beings and able to see us as we are and love us anyway. When it's finally possible to accept that impossibility - to feel in our hearts that it's unchangeable by us - then we can begin loosening the the internal "commands" that cause us difficulty, pain, paralysis - that are really just our desire beating it's head on the same old brick wall.

Commands like changing who we are, in hopes of getting that pat on the head, the hug, patience as we slowly try to master new skills, without criticism.

Commands like beating ourselves up emotionally, in the desperate hope that maybe THIS is what the parent wants... and THIS is what will finally achieve the desire we seek.

Ya know, I was a compulsive, voracious reader from the time I was 5 or 6. I read way above my supposed grade level, from the start. I taught myself how to build a house by reading construction manuals. But about 5 years ago, I simply stopped reading. I had no explanation or reasons for it. I've read maybe a dozen books in this phase. The only comparison I've got is art work. As a student, you look at many, many different kinds of art - immersing yourself in various historical styles, modern work, all of it - and this is encouraged by art schools. Supposedly you're "educating" your eye. But what I found, is that one tends to mimic, appropriate, unconsciously imitate what others have created before you. So I stopped looking at art, except for the need to see what kinds of art are being marketed - and sold.

I wanted to create art that was different, unique - more ME - and less susceptible to those unconscious leanings toward meeting what appeared to be the "criteria" for what "serious" art was.

Books are art that communicate ideas and experiences. I think I stopped reading, because like with the art - I wanted to find out what MY ideas and experience was; what was unique to me - without the clutter of other people's ideas, experiences & opinions. Guess therapy was a real logical choice to begin that, huh? I'm not dissing the value of reading & collecting wisdom, clues, and understanding from books - I've benefited too much from them to not value reading.

Just wanted to make the point, that I found it was more important for me - to finally let other people's ideas, wisdom & experience go for a bit - and spend the time figuring out what MINE were. That is the technique I used - getting to know myself - all of myself - a lot better.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 02:41:24 PM »
I did the SAME thing, with the very SAME reasoning, about reading poetry, when I wrote the most.

Thanks, Amber.

First time I've heard anyone else articulate that.

xo
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Izzy_*now*

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 02:49:38 PM »
Hi SS

I. too, read Frankl. It was my first book in these past 6 years after the N. I had a lot to wend my way through, but I never forgot that he said that no matter what had been taken from us we still were the owners of our own thoughts.

So many things I've read and the Forums I've been on to share, the last one being here, I often might have diagreed with someone's post but couldn't explain to myself, WHY? and the posts with which I agreed, I tried to Understand why it fit with my life.

It's like we see here "Take what you want and leave the rest."

I have naturally always gone back to my childhood, but family is family so I went elsewhere where troubles had arisen. The search led back to my family and as angry, and put-down, as I'd always felt with them, that was my answer. Had that been a healthy relationship the following problems might have been my issues, but my issues began with my family, and that is my final conclusion.

I consider them toxic, still after all these 65 years and they are on my toxic list, along with the N who my daughter married.

That's a bit of how I did it!

Good Look
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

miss piggy

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 06:03:37 PM »
Hello SS,

I have also read Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning and highly recommend it.  In addition to what Izzy quoted re owners of our thoughts, the other point he made that stuck with me was the story of his release.

He and another prisoner were walking through a farmer's field.  One prisoner was taken up with destroying it.  Frankl stopped him, which angered the other man.  What?  After what they have done to me?  Frankl replied, if you do this then you become just like them.

The book is short but chockful of insights like that.  What I appreciate most is the message of being is enough.  I'm sorry you were hurting, SS.  I'm glad you are able and brave enough to work through it.  MP

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 02:15:27 PM »
No one will ever understand you.   I have pondered this thought and realized that a lot of my hurt has been over this very thought. 

I am so glad you have shared this.  I see the importance of that concept.  There is a priest who used to say over and over how we are driven in life to be understood.  I stayed in that place nodding in agreement and rehearing his words over and over.  BUT that is the problem - while it may be true that we long to be understood that longing sends me right back to PR's point that "Desire is the cause of all suffering. "  I believe that I have FINALLY arrived at the point of stepping past frustration and accepting the fact that you state, "no one will ever understand you."  It is sad but I see your point that letting it go is the only way to freedom.

I talked to my therapist today and told him that my unconscious delimma of "chosing" between being condemned or being rejected left me in complete frustration.  Had I been able to understand then what I have paid a hefty price for understanding now is that a better choice for me is/would have been cutting my losses and choosing not to be in relationship with them. 

That place of frustration is for me a place of "comfort".  It is what I have always known but it has been painful and destructive.  It becomes clearer and clearer that I actually opt out of those places of frustration (couldn't make a choice until it became conscious to me how I was participating in this frustration.) 

OK - I'm going to stop.  I know what I want to say and am not pleased with how it is coming out right now.  I'm going to put down my computer and come back later and try again. 

I have lived in the place of frustration not recognizing that there were other options.  Now I see that there are options.  The place of frustration is one that I grew up in and was forced into (by projection) and stayed in as a means of survival.  The double bind was that using my determination to get myself out of bad places ALWAYS cost me severe punishment - more condemnation, more rejection (just like I experienced with my FOO at my brother's custody hearing 2weeks ago).  So I quit using my determination and my will.  FOR YEARS all I could do was research issues about healing but apply none of what I learned.  Now I can.  Now I can actually see how I can OPT to not need to be understood by others, I can actually OPT to see how I and others are reacting out of my and their wounds and stop the loop of reacting, reacting, reacting.  But in order to do this I must consciously call into mind what choice I am making and call into mind how I have been stymied in the past and  -  well let me stop and try again later. 

I know what I want to say but still struggling to articulate it.  I want to respond to all these very interesting posts.  Very helpful.  AGain getting great help,  making real tangible progress.  Thanks, thanks all.

Hopalong

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 10:04:39 PM »
You can!
You are!
More and more.

It just takes practice.

So you won't get it every time. That's okay!

(I always, always only heard the word "back" in "Two steps forward plus one step back." I never did the math to realize that I had taken a step forward.) I get that now. I think that's what compassion for self is.

As are you...so many steps.

kudos,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 10:20:51 AM »
Ami – you wrote in part: I thought he loved me and cared for me, but he saw me being hurt and did not care.  He really did not care.  When I told him that my door was  broken down repeatedly when my H was in a rage he said, "That is life."  He did not care and does not care.  That is so painful to read.  Living in a world of rage and broken doors is not life and we a human definitely intervene to protect those we love.  Love is sanctuary, protection, encouragement and building up.  Violence is the opposite and sanctioning violence is the same as violence itself.

PR – attachment as suffering is exactly what I needed to hear again.  I am devouring your point that our attachment to creating love out of what our parents heaped on us is attachment.  Revisiting the past helps me see how I continue to try to rework this and how I find a comfort in it. 

PR & Hops – your words about reading and poetry touch a profound experience beyond my comprehension.  How I admire you both.

Izzy – you wrote that Frankl said: he said that no matter what had been taken from us we still were the owners of our own thoughts.  That appears to be essential to his survival.  I must learn to reject the projected thoughts of my parents and own my own thoughts.  Thank you for this.

Miss Piggy – if you do this then you become just like them. I have a way of turning these words on others when I don’t like what they have done but I must apply these words to myself.  If I ultimately turn hatred and projection onto my brothers and parents then I am just like them.  There is a paradox in the healing process in that it is necessary to experience that hatred in order to break through the grasp their own hatred bound us with.  But we must break through and release that.  How and when is ever an imponderable.

CB – whew – I can’t thank you enough for this quotation "No one will ever understand you.  Realizing this is freedom.
This is helpful too, Healing, for me, has come from the realization that the wounds are just part of my experience but not part of ME.  I remember years ago someone telling me that although I was the child of an alcoholic that was not ALL that I was.  At that time it had a strong effect on me.  But the point that you make is even more powerful  - the wounds are of my experience but not part of me.  Time to extract the me that lies underneath the scars. 

I have quit trying to discover the TRUTH of the situation, and straighten the other person out.  And I am being kinder to myself--not trying to straighten myself out. 

That has really helped the tendency to condemn myself--or to reject others.
  I certainly see the power in these words.  I think applying this concept into my thought process, my “valuation” is a way out of the “judgment” that my parents put on me and which I accepted.  THAT judgment is the pile of bricks on my back.

Gaining Strength

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 10:33:35 AM »
AS I realized that as a child I was trapped between the unconscious choice of condemnation and rejection the weight of this choice almost choked the life out of me.  I could see that I “opted” for condemnation as rejection was for me the equivalent of death.  The irony is that condemnation led to rejection and so the outcome would be the same.  I can see that as a young child I opted for condemnation because it seemed that by performing well I could overcome the condemnation but rejection seemed to be a deathknell.  I see now that had I, instead, chosen to remove myself then I could have taken the sting out of the evil choice of condemnation or rejection.  Of course as a child I could not remove myself.  I needed my parents in order to survive.  But NOW I can choose to remove myself.  Now I can make this choice and I can apply it in reverse – I can see what that would have meant for me long ago. 

The great crime of what the wounds of parents is that it has such a deep and long life. It is a cancer that is extremely difficult to extricate. Difficult but not impossible.

sKePTiKal

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Re: replaying N wounds blocks healing
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 11:57:59 AM »
SS -

the real impossibility in those situations with those kind of parents, is that it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to not BE who we are. Even if we are adept at creating false selves, playing our prescribed roles in the FOO...

... we can't stop being who we really are.

When there are no real parents in the environment, we simply don't KNOW this.

All we learn from "those" parents - is to meet their expectation; play our assigned role; repeat endlessly the same cycle.

When we can touch our real self and get to know her - then slowly, gradually, it becomes "possible" for us to learn that we can simply be ourselves in life and that doing this doesn't necessarily result in the usual abuse.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.