Ho-ho-honesty about the holidays

[sunblue]

Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback......It is always comforting when someone understands what you're going through.

Finding Peace:

I'm so sorry about the loss of your pet.  I know how attached one can become to a pet....and it is an important loss.  Despite the sad news, I couldn't help but smile when I read how your "incubator" criticized the stain on the bedspread.  How like an N!  My N would do that too!  A stain on the rug is the world's worst tragedy!  Disgusting!

I'm still not sure what I will do at Christmas.....I feel myself getting into that spot where I can't move....Everything, even the slightest thing, seems to take so much effort.  Today was a difficult day.  I couldn't keep the "outburst" with my Nmom out of my head...it played over and over and all I can hear are her words, "I don't feel sorry for you....It's your fault for not giving in."  And etched in my brain is the image of my child-like father meekly standing by her side, silently enabling her and throwing me under the bus yet again.

So I was on the computer a lot today, watched the parade on TV.....and took down the fall decorations to make way for all the Christmas ones I will put up.  I surfed the Web for jobs....but this economy is really affecting that goal.

I did see some interesting info on the Web today about how you deal with dysfunctional families on holiday.  The number 1 tip was "Give up hope."  It said you need to give up hope that anything will be different....and they were right.

It is kind of scary to know that you are alone....A few years back I lived alone....and those circumstances didn't change...Perhaps that's why I've been so hesitant to move.  I know what it will mean....but I am aware of how bad others have it...especially on holidays like this.  Today, I tried to count the blessings I do have.S

I think what Hopalong said was SO true.  She noted that it's necessary to change your acceptance of reality  (from "This must change and this is NOT FAIR or RIGHT" to "this is just what is."  But that is soooo hard!!!  It's so hard to accept the reality that you're not cared about by anyone, especially your FOO.  AND, that the person in the family who is idolized, loved, cherished, is the Nsibling who caused the desctruction of the family. 

I've been thinking I might try to find a therapist who understands N...I've been to others in the past, but frankly they did not understand N well....and lacked empathy, something which I really need.  So I may try again.....if nothing else, I'll pay them their going rate just to have someone offline to listen to me.....Of course, I realize in doing so, that just gives my Nmom more ammunition...that I am the one who is "sick".....

Have any of you found that therapists can help with this particular issue?  Do they recognize N as a distinct, valid illness that causes realworld problems?  I'm just curious.

ANyway, hope all of you had a nice Thanksgiving...and a good dinner ....Yesterday, at work, many people asked where I was going for the holliday....and I'm really not good at lying...so I just explained that my family resides permanently in "Dysfunction Junction"....so I wasn't going anywhere....But how else do you explain our brand of Nfamily issues to those who have never experienced it?

Well, I'm off to check travel costs...maybe a small trip may work out after all?

Happy Turkey Day!

[finding peace]

Hey Sun,

Thank you for understanding about my baby – she was my baby in so many ways.

The incubator’s reaction was appallingly funny – in a dark humor kinda way - it is so typical.  Being a child, she couldn’t legally put me down for making a mess – but she certainly did mentally eh?

It is all about giving up hope.

And, for me, it was so painful; that death of hope.

That hope was all I had for so long.  It was all I had to hold onto.  I clung to that hope, because the reality was too harsh to believe.

Better to believe the dream may come true one day, or so I thought at the time.

But it was a total lie.  Two years ago I had the final blow-out with my incubator.  At that time, my hope died.

When my hope died, it was so incredibly painful.  I was in a fog for quite awhile.  But I came out.  I still have my moments, but they are getting easier to get through.  The past couple of days have been tough.

Dr. G has a very poignant story, here is the link:

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=148.0

I think it says it all.

I now have the family I choose – 10 or so years it took me, but it is there.  So it is a different hope I think – a more realistic hope that you will find a true family. 

Although, I have to laugh, I am feeling pretty grossed out by them.  Please don’t think badly of me – I can’t help it – I am a bit of a germaphobe.

My niece, who I love to pieces, actually caused my tummy quite a bit of distress tonight – I still shudder when I think of what she did. 

They have a dog with extremely bad breath.  The dog won’t drink out of a bowl – he has to drink out of a glass, and it must be ice water.  Oh lord – she shared a drink of water with the dog.  I sat there and watched the dog drink, she would take a drink, the dog drank.



::gagging::

Ewwwww.  Sorry I am a bit of a germaphobe – ewwww bad doggy breath germs.  AND SHE DRANK IT.  ACK!

Yuck it is still grossing me out!

::shuddering as I try to roll with the waves of nausea::

Have you ever smelled the breath of a 10-year-old dog who is dentally hygienically challenged?

EWWWWWW.

I had a very hard time eating dinner after I saw that.

Love them, but really, ewwwwwww.

I thought of you often today (NOT in relation to the smelly dog breath – that was just an aside.  And I apologize to those out there who have no problem sharing dog saliva – It just isn’t in me.)

You know, for years I had the T-day with my family.  I hated it.  No matter what, it was always awful.  The catering to the GC.  The sly subtle put downs to me. 

If you had T-day with the incubator and sperm donor – in all honesty what would it really be like?  From what you have said, I get a mental picture of them putting a speaker phone on the table so that they can have GC there – and everyone else is ignored. 

And I am so very, very sorry for that.

Sun – you deserve so much better - they are really, really broken.  It is nothing that you have done, there is nothing wrong with you that made them treat you this way.  It is them, and their inability to love more than one.

I have an autistic nephew (GC’s son).  When he was first diagnosed, my incubator actually said that she can’t think of the baby – her heart was too sad for the GC.  Her words:  I am worried for my son and can't think of ***, he doesn't matter - it is my son's pain I am feeling.  I can remember thinking at the time - isn't your heart big enough for both?  I guess not.

How sick and sad?  I still can’t fathom it.

Time to find some better people – eh?  Even if they drink stinky doggy breath – at least it is real.

It is your turn Sun - time for you to shine.

Love to you from a still very nauseous Peace,

FP.

[sunblue]

Hey Finding Peace:

Seems like the pooch had a serious case of the doggie breath blues....I can understand why you were grossed out.....Some dogs who have a real problem with doggie breath can knock you on your feet...especially when you're around food.  It can make your stomach queasy.  Still, I couldn't help but imagining you at the holiday surrounded by your niece and this bad breath pooch, who I'm sure has the sweetest look on his face as he hopes for a nice belly rub........I'm thinking Doggie would do well to get some dental hygiene products in his Christmas stocking from Santa.   

I know my brother tends to be a germophobe too.  He has taught his daughter not to open any door with her hands....I can't say I'm into that....but whatever floats your boat.

I spent yesterday and today putting up Christmas decorations...Still not done...I'm no engineer!...I actually paused before I hauled out the decorations, thinking why should I bust my butt for Nparents who could care less about me???  But then, I told myself that I was really doing it for me.  I like the decorations and lights....and while they get to enjoy them and don't appreciate it.....I still didn't want to punish myself anymore than I've already been punished.  The weather is nice here for this neck of the country...so neighbors were out hanging lights.  There's a friendly little competition between neighbors ...I don't engage in that..I count my blessings if I can get the lights to work.  But the neighbors joked with each other and one put up the volume on the Christmas music for everyone to enjoy.  There was an uncomfortable moment when my next door neighbor asked about my Thanksgiving and who I spent it with.  I really am terrible at lying...so I told them my parents and brother both spent it elsewhere so I just stayed home and relaxed.  She gave me a very surprised look and told me that if she knew she would have invited me to her husband's huge thanksgiving clan dinner. 

My N parents returned late today.....a day early....but only because a snow storm for tomorrow is expected and they didn't want to drive.  For the last several years, they have essentially repaired and redecorated my Nsister's house.  My Nsis is perhaps more narcissistic than my Nmom...She imposes on my senior dad to do all kinds of repair jobs even though he shouldn't be doing that.  He's constantly painting and fixing and repairing.  I found myself today helping carry very heavy doors from their car to the basement.  I thought, "How crazy is this?  I'm helping them with a project they're doing for my Nsis, the one they chose to spend this holiday, and every holiday with...while I spent the holiday alone putting up Xmas decorations at their house?"  I haven't said more than 5 words to them...They disgust me.

It's really hard to realize that you are all alone.....That days go by and not a single person calls you or emails you and wonders what you are doing......I'm wondering what I can do to not play the "pretend" game at Christmas.....it gets harder and harder.   Now I realize that my so-called "healthy" brother adopted a "limited contact" relationship with my parents.  He rarely sees them, but checks in with my Nmom and dad about once a week.  Usually, my mom refuses to talk to him or claims she has no time....and i can see it's just an item on his weekly "to do" list that he checks off.  He has clearly added me to that category even though i have done nothing to him.  In fact, I have always been there for him, especially his daughter.  I was quite close to my niece, taking her on trips and activities, helping her with homework, driving to and fro...but now that she is big enough not to need a babysitter, I literally haven't heard from them.

So when you wrote about your niece, I figured that you still have either your brother or sister (parent of your niece) in your life.  I'm wondering if you've ever noticed N characteristics in your siblings?  Do they reach out to you...or do you find yourself always initiating it?  Looking back on my life, I have to acknowledge that each and every relationship has been a one-way street....me always reaching out, trying, doing for others, caring about them.....but it never came back to me. 

What's really bad about these "incubator" outbursts...is that there comes a point when there's no turning back.  I read an interesting article in a magazine about how to deal with dysfunctional family at the holidays...it said you should try for reconciliation or resolution but that "giving in" was passivitiy and that wasn't a good thing.  But isn't that the whole issue with Ns?  Unless you are passive and "give in", they punish you be refusing to have anything to do with you.  Unless you are a helpless, enabling co-dependent (as is my dad) and do whatever they want, there's nothing for you.  They punish you. 

I'd like to think that there is hope that I will not leave this earth before knowing what it feels like to have someone care about me.  But I really don't hold up much hope at this time.  People don't seem to want to widen their circle to let anyone else in.....and family does not exist.  It's hard not to think the problem is me....

Anyway, just a little rant.  I hope you had some leftovers...and maybe slipped a little goody under the table to that pooch.  I know he doesn't smell like roses, but I'm sure he has other characteristics that make up for it )...

Sunblue

[debkor]

Hey Sun,

I have been thinking about you and you were in my thoughts on TDay while I was at the dinner table.  Don't give up Hope..There are people who care about you.  I am one.  Although I am not in 3d I do care and do think about you.

You don't have to pretend anything.  I would tell the neighbors well Thank you...I would like to have coffee with ya all sometime though and maybe I could stop over around Xmas time.  Would be nice to spend some time with ya all.

Start grabbing a book if ya like to read and go to a diner have some coffee, soda, tea and bring your book.  Eventually people will get to know you, say Hey, and conversation maybe there will be some friendships started.  God I'm a talker and if you were in my diner I be gabbing away and a big HELLO... I can't imagine that I am the only one who likes to Gab and will talk to pretty much Everyone.   Get out There..put yourself in a place.....and direct your life...you are the director!

I say this because you had asked about T's.  Mine was very good and I do believe he was very good with dealing with N issues and Me (codependent). 

I went with ex from week to week and the only thing that changed was the Week and maybe some new things added I found out.

He once said to my Ex...Deb is a very thorough person...and I"m thinking...wow he knows me...and OH BOY did he.

He then turned to me and said, Deb if you were making a movie of your life and there was a beginning and then the middle and an ending...what would you want...You are the director and you can change, cast, do Whatever you want with it..Can ya think about that...

I'm thinking, What the hell, I'm in a crisis and he wants me to do a movie of my life...how the hell am I supposed to know how it would end..I can't get past today.  I think I even said that..

So now I'm a thorough person and I think Deep so I some times do deep thinking get it together before I speak about what it is I think or feel, especially with something so intense in my life.

I think the T was counting on This and was putting all bets on me being thorough not that I thought about that at the time. 

So I would think about this movie deal and felt kind of silly but I did it.  I went from past to present everything that was my life....and when I wanted the ending I could not do one. 

I'm thinking, my T is smart and after something he wants me to do and figure out ...something that is holding me here.. or something I'm not resolving...

Went to childhood, family, friends, up to present....Oh no...I would like to change that for everything to be All good...Be a family without these crazy things going on but I can't so I can change me staying and I really need to leave or him and why am I staying when I'm so unhappy and hate it damn well knowing he is what he is (which I really didn't know exactly what) but something I have never lived or known ever in my life...OR did I?

Everytime I took this movie to the present and even seen me saying..GET OUT...I would feel anxiety and Trauma...and thinking...What if he don't come back?  What if he stays out?  and then think...what if he does?  He should...so back to the beginning...AND BAM!!!

When I was little I could hear from my room when my parents didn't know or were so Angry that they didn't give me a thought that I might have heard...I would hear my mother so mad at my dad that she would burst out..GET THE HELL OUT.  Now I'm a kid and how the hell am I supposed to know that she didn't mean it and it was Angry words and I don't think they knew how damaged I was and the Fears I had because of that.   I'm sure my F really pissed her off for good reason and she just Blurt Out...or really meant Get the Hell Out at the moment or the night..but I couldn't, didn't or should have understood.   I heard this on more then one occasion and I don't remember much except for one night when I went running out of my bed and begging my father not to go and my mother to forgive him and them to make up.  I could not imagine being without them together and fearfull that some day it may happen.  I remember them comforting me and saying that would never happen it was just words but I never felt comfortable and worried that they were just trying to make me feel better and someday I would not have my father there. 
Abandonment/Separation Fears ...things that went so deep that I carried them into my adult life when I was married ...old unresolved issues/Fears/Damage.

I never got to reveal this to the T because he was killed in a car accident but I do think he knew put bets on that I would keep going back and seeing what was stopping me From leaving...staying in something that was so unhealthy wanting to get out...saying I would get out...but never being able to do it. 

And I thought I'm redirecting my life back to the same old thing...things I didn't know...things I feared to move forward with...things that I had to resolve to move on or things I did know but would not bring them to conscious for they were so traumatic to me I buried them and when this crisis happened...I was stuck, I couldn't go further, I was traumatized all over again but had things from my past unresolved which made it even worse when I needed to Act.  I didn't.  I froze.  I was scared, what if he don't come back? 

I stopped directing my life or maybe that is where I directed it in the first place to marry my Ex when I shouldn't have with red flags all over the place. 
I am the director and there are things I cannot change but understand what I could not and can now and the past can't be changed by my present directing and future into directing my life where I would like it to head....no ending..not till death do I part....some life curveballs but then I redirect and keep going...

I do think and wish I knew for sure this is what he wanted me to realize..and go back..get present...and fly directing my life into the future..with resloved issues within myself.  And it worked.

The beginning was still the beginning the middle was still the middle (but with understanding what was keeping me prisoner and frozen and fearful and even probably setting myself up) and then I moved to future...and ending.  The ending would be peace and contentment...and doing everything I could to direct and redirect for that..being whole and happy with life ups and downs and still moving forward with direction...

When I went from present (at that time) my thoughts were not of my ex in them.  He was not kept out he was just not there.  No future husband was, no white picket fence, no nothing...just my kids and maybe some struggles, hard times, but happy doing it...and ya know...

I had no money, Nada, not one dime..and I struggled was lonely at times..but happy..directing forward..moved out of state by my sister, got a small house, a car that was on it's last leg, no friends, even no TV, had kids who depended on me, scared and Happy all at the same time. 

Now I do have the white picket fence, dogs, remarried another child, still a crappy car (lol) more money but not rich, life's ups and downs, things that happen that you really wish did not but redirect to what I have to work with and keep going....

Direct your life Sun...and redirect your life Sun ...and keep going...to where you want it to head/be...and what you want out of this life....and the things that cannot be and not for you to direct...someones else Life Movie is how they direct their own....and something you are not in control of...but what you want you can get...maybe not with the people who were Family but you can have it...with your family you make of your own....friends/animals whatever you direct into your life...or out...

And I do think that is where he wanted to bring me...I think.  I don't fear well I fear things at times but I don't let them stop me unless of course they Should for safety...but ...one day at a time..direct..and don't put bets on that it will always be like this...because like my T's bets (I think) were on me as I put bets no you...that you will direct your life...where you want it to go...it is possible...No more, hoping...Now just waiting for it to happen...It will...I promise you this...just be patient and think....it will...it will...I will direct my life from now on...I will make it happen...I am my own director...as scared shit as I am....I'm the director.

I know it sounds so corny but that is the way it worked for me.


Love
Deb

[finding peace]

Hi Sun,

Well, I am ok with doggy licks on the chin or cheeks – just can’t handle swapping saliva with dentally hygienically challenged dogs. 

I didn’t have to give him treats under the table, he sat on my BIL’s lap at the dinner table and shared a plate with him. 

(Not even going there  ::shuddering:: )  : )

Although, have to admit, I loved it – my FOO would have had a heart attack – his love for that dog was apparent in every move he took – beautiful!

The niece I was referring to is my H’s brother’s daughter.  You remembered I have a bio-bro and a sis – thank you!!!  My brother was a budding P as a child.  He and I are very close in age (< 1 year apart).  He hated me from the moment I was born, and made my life as miserable as he could when we were children – and I mean miserable – he was as nasty as they come.  He is the GC.  Prior to NC, as an adult, he would still tell lies about me to my parents – just to try inflame and already difficult situation.  He is not a nice person. 

My sister was better, she is a lot younger than the 2 of us, and was left alone by my parents – I pretty much raised her.  She didn’t get any of the varied types of abuse that I got.  My Dad left her alone, and my mother spoiled her.  She turned out to have some Nistic traits – but she wasn't really mean/nasty/manipulative per se, just very, very, very self absorbed and shallow.  She was a good one for always asking me for something, but if I asked her help for something, unless there was something in it for her, she would, without fail, refuse.

I am no contact with the lot of them; little over 2 years now.

I don’t understand why your brother is treating you the way he is …. I wonder if having you in his life is too much of a reminder of the way your incubator treats him?   On the flip side, maybe he is self-absorbed like my sister, but not overtly mean/nasty? 

Whatever the reason doesn’t really matter – what matters is that you deserve a lot better, and you have done nothing to deserve how you are being treated.

You are a lot nicer to your bioparents than I would be.  You mentioned that they left you a list of chores and are asking for your help around the house?  Well – have to say, I would be tempted to say to them, you enjoy sis’s company so much, why don’t you have her over to do the work – then you can chat and have a great time!!!

I spent ~6? years living alone.  It was hard at first, but it morphed into one of the most peaceful times of my life.  If I wanted to read a book or watch TV – I could without someone haranguing me about something.  I limited contact as much as possible.  (The day that caller ID was invented – well that was a day for serious celebration!!).  Although, here I think we have different perspectives?  I wanted to get away.  It sounds like you don’t want to get away, you want them to change?  I think maybe that although I would have loved for them to change – part of me realized that they never would.  I still held onto some hope though, at least until I went NC.

While I was alone, I spent a lot of time developing my career by default, ie., I spent a lot of time working – a very N’istic company – it was awful at the time, easily 70+ hours/week.  We used to joke at that company that we would make more money working at a fast food place.  When you calculated the hours we worked versus our salaries – we made far less than minimum wage – and the stress was over the top.  But, it paid off in the long run, they trained me and now I can make a nice living for my family from that training, it is a pretty rare field with few experienced in it. 

I had 10 years of therapy.  I sometimes wonder where I would be today without it – certainly not where I am today.  I think therapy is a really good idea if you can swing it, although it is tough to find someone good.  If they lack empathy – seems to me that they need to find a new career. 

That was so sweet of your neighbor.  There are some really good people out there.

I agree with Deb, don’t give up all hope. 

I do know for me, the hope that my family would change held me hostage for many, many years. 

When that hope died, I became free.  It was not an easy process at all; that death of hope as it pertained to my FOO.  It was incredibly painful.  But it got easier over time.

I still have my moments, although they are fewer and don’t last as long.  There are times when I am so bone-weary of living what I have lived.  Sometimes, it is so hard to get up and face another day.  My pets helped me through the really dark periods when I was alone.  Now I have kids.
 
It is hard – so often I fall back into the old pattern of thinking that there was something I did to make me the black sheep.  Then, I look at my children – and there is no way I would ever treat them as I was treated, and it helps.  I look at their little faces and think how could anyone be so cruel to a child?  I believe it is because they are broken, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around why the can't seem to change.

If you were the mother of your family Sun – would you treat anyone the way they have treated you?  I can tell by your posting that the answer to that is no.

Unfortunately, at least with my FOO, the only option for me was to walk away. 

Sometimes, I write here, and I have no idea if it helps or hurts.  Please know that the last thing I want to do is cause hurt.  Sometimes, I feel so messed up, it is like who am I to give any kind of advice?  I hit these moments, and where I used to get so down on  myself, I try and remember to give myself  a break.  Sigh – it isn’t always easy though.

I don’t know the answers Sun – I do know my heart breaks for what your family has done to you.  It sounds so similar to what mine did to me – and it was awful.  NC doesn’t make the past go away per se – but it makes dealing with the present so much easier.

I care Sun and I know that there are those in 3D who will as well, it just takes time. 

Take care and with love,
FP

[Lupita]

FP, I have not seen you in a long time. I am so happy to see you today.

Hope everything is going well for you.

Love to you.

[finding peace]

Hi Lupita,

Thanks for your note!  I was taking a bit of a break from posting.  You sound so good these days - I am so happy for you.

Sun,

I am sorry - I re-read my post and it sounded pretty depressing didn't it?  I am very sorry - didn't mean to put that on you.  I am still having a hard time with the loss of my kitty (and talking about my FOO usually gets me down).

Hope you are doing ok.

Love to you both,
FP

[teartracks]

Hops,

Many people are filled with cheer during this holiday season. For years, I have been filled with gradually increasing sadness, dread, anxiety, depression.

I'm glad you've broke the code on why the holidays are a dread and that you're crafting them to suit you.

tt

 

[Hopalong]

Thank you, TT!
I figured out that other urgencies...mainly the upcoming hearing with my brother...drove the rest (holiday expectations and tension) the rest of the way out of my life. It is such a pleasure. I realize that all this time, I've done it for my Nmom. Whatever pleasure I might once have taken in it is gone now, given my brother out to tear me apart. (Which I won't let him do, no matter how the court hearing turns out Friday.)

I truly am immunized. I am barely noticing as the shopping ramps up around me. I'm really just not thinking about it. My D doesn't do Xmas, and I feel completely comfortable, for the first time, not participating. Sort of happy that she's boycotting...it doesn't even feel like boycottoing. I just now feel I get it. She doesn't do it yet she's always home for a while shortly before or after. Suits me fine!

A lot of it is because my mother is now out of it so her holiday demands just aren't happening. I will certainly take her a cozy gift and some extra love. I will buy lovely socks for Gennulman (in fact, since neither of us has money to blow, I think I'll suggest to him: how about we each get the other ONE really nice pair of socks?). But thank heaven, he is not into the holidays either.

I just had a really good visit with my D who was home for 2 nights, and I am going to Miami for a week with her in January. Meanwhile, everybody else being so distracted about Xmas feels in a funny way like being left in peace.

It's cozy and calm in my home now. I notice the stars, the weather, the air. I don't feel any reflexive sense that I have to "do" Christmas. The minister's wife is now away, at their retirement home. And I'm sure she's into it all. But what I'm going to do is point her to the Xmas tree (already decorated) that's draped in plastic in the basement, show her where lights and ornaments are, and basically invite her to do whatever she likes. Just...count me out.

It feels like such freedom. It's early December and I'm sure there will be some festivities. But I just feel a peaceful detachment I've never felt before. (I am realizing...it really is all Mom's absence. Plus my brother's malignancy. There is no more tension in me about it. Nothing to pretend.)

love,
Hops

[lighter]

((((Hops)))

How nice to have that January visit planned.

You sound so good, Hops.....I'm glad.

Lighter