Author Topic: Job Advise  (Read 31898 times)

Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2004, 11:13:38 AM »
Hey Bunny:  Thanks for the hugs again - and who is going to pay the $100 an hour to talk to a therapist?  See?  I cannot win for losing!!!!  When my mom and I went to her pastor I accused of him of not giving sound advise because he wouldn't want to put her large contributions in jeopardy.  Then the advise that he did give I followed but my mom did not.  Then she said something like, "Well SOMEBODY has to work!"

Oh well, more tears and dread................

Kelly

Anonymous

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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2004, 11:47:33 AM »
Dearest Kelly,

May I suggest the following?  Make a list of the suggestions made here and possible outcomes.  Make a list of what you have tried in the past, what worked and what didn't work as a result and why.  And why it might be worth another try.  

We are familiar with your pain and the reluctance to go through the additional pain associated with change.  It's like childbirth.  It's very scary, painful, and who knows what's going to happen?  But it also makes life interesting too.

I hear a bit of rationalization and "yes, but"-ing in your replies.  That's natural because you are confronting something that's hard.  This may also be why your daughter is a bit frustrated when you voice your feelings.  She may be wondering what you are going to do about what's bothering you.  You see?  

Unfortunately, there are no easy answers.  Like Tom Hanks says in "A League of Their Own": "It's the hard that makes it great.  Otherwise everyone would be doing it"  He was talking about baseball, but it can apply to anything worth doing for your own growth and greatness.  

If you are willing to keep plugging away, we're willing to keep encouraging you.  Hugs, Seeker

Anonymous

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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2004, 12:35:36 PM »
Seeker:  Another thing Tom Hanks said in that movie was, "Are you crying?  There's no crying in baseball!"  Love that movie.  But is there crying in a adult child of a N's life?  Well, I would say there is because I have been crying a lot lately.  And you are right, I am the queen of "Yes, buts......" learned that one from Nmom.  No one can have a right answer without an alternative or a reason why it won't work.....................that is the invalidation I have felt all my life and I am truly sorry for "yes, butting" you!

I wrote my husband this morning (an email at work) and told him I am sorry for being on edge lately.............he is supportive of me but probably doesn't realize that I need him to step up right about now and take some of the pressure off of me.  Cleaning up dog poop or unloading the dishwasher would really help me right now.

Well, I will think about REALLY breaking the cycle of abuse with a plan.  Need to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it means my standard of living has to go down.

Thanks for calling me on the excuses.............................they are just that - excuses.  I am terrified of what it will look like but I guess I am willing to make some steps forward to have my soul back..............

flower

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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2004, 08:47:24 AM »
Hi Kelly, I sent you a private message. Hope you are okay.

Anonymous

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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2004, 09:36:43 AM »
Hi Kelly, lottery ticket symbolism guest here. A post of yours from an older page:

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Well, this whole week my mom has not been in work and because of that I think she is probably "trying."
But you won’t know for sure what it was about unless you ask her, directly: “Just curious, why didn’t you come into work that week?” and find out her answer. If you don’t ask people, you don’t know. And if you don’t tell people, they don’t know! I have to keep telling myself this, people aren’t telepathic. I have to tell them what I want, or they don’t know.

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We talked a little bit about work and she said something like, "Please deliver me from all this."
Maybe she meant it? For real?

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So I have figured out that, 1. She doesn't like the day-to-day monotony of working in our business, but 2. She does like the people in our industry to think she has it all together and that we are successful.
Has she actually said these things? Seriously.

Why do I ask you to question your interpretations here? Because:

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We have not turned a profit ever since we have been in the business so to sell it at this point would not be an option - she would lose too much money.

Yikes! If you are paying yourselves good salaries and not making a profit - I hope she’s got a lot of money stored away in case it does fold. I hope she can continue paying the school/college fees that your children are used to. I’m now worried that the business is a ‘house of cards’ ready to crash. Would that be a problem?

What would you feel if she said tomorrow: “I’ve had enough. I’ve tried to make this work and I’m tired. You can have the business or you can leave. I’m for folding it.”

And:
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he is supportive of me but probably doesn't realize that I need him to step up right about now and take some of the pressure off of me. Cleaning up dog poop or unloading the dishwasher would really help me right now.

“probably doesn't realize” – not unless you tell him, straight: “I want you to do this. Do you want to do it?”

Give others some of the responsibility. You don’t have to do it all by yourself. None of it.

Overcomer

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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2004, 09:47:05 AM »
Boy that was some good advise.  Telling people.  Asking people.  I guess I am the queen of talking around what I want.

The house of cards.......that is analogy I have used many times.  No, the business has been run poorly for years.....................she has put lots of money in it.  But it can turn a profit if we stop acting like we've got it all together and stop living beyond our means.  

No, she hasn't said that she wants people to think she's a success.  Isn't that kind of a N thing?  Don't Ns want everyone to think they have it all together? I can watch her in action and know what she is doing.

Oh well, all advise is good.  Thanks...............and boo hoo, I didn't win the lottery the other day.  I don't think I even got one number that matched!!!  Does that mean I have to pay them?
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Anonymous

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« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2004, 10:32:47 AM »
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I guess I am the queen of talking around what I want.
Me too. That’s why I saw it.

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But it can turn a profit if we stop acting like we've got it all together and stop living beyond our means.
Would you like to just live comfortably with it and stop striving so hard? Work at it, make a profit, feel more secure?
Or – is it Mom’s acting out of line with reality that gets to you? Do you wish she would just stop acting like she’s Ms Wonderful and be real, just a regular human? (Me again too.) Then – and this is a flight of imagination okay? – you wouldn’t have to compete with her. Even if you don’t compete, hey, if things were just a little more real and down-to-earth, you wouldn’t have to be Superwoman, for your husband, your children….etc.

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Don't Ns want everyone to think they have it all together? I can watch her in action and know what she is doing.
Yes they do, to cover deep shame and feelings of inferiority. They have to keep proving that their existence is okay. This isn’t necessarily conscious. Which makes them seem insufferably vain, arrogant, unfeeling and so on. Yes you can see what she’s doing, but why is she? Is it making her a happier person? Maybe you could ask why she does it, as in ‘no, really mom, why do you do it when you don’t have to?’ She may not realise that she doesn’t have to! It’s possible.

Keep those lottery tickets, frame them!

Anonymous

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« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2004, 01:28:18 PM »
I DID say something to her about being "real."  She said she had no intimate relationships and I told her that that is because she is not "real."  No one know the "real" mom.  Well, she immediately said that people do not need to know things that don't concern them.  Meaning, that if people really knew her, they wouldn't like her so she just acts like this wonderful woman who has it all together.  And again, from all outward appearances she does.  Nice home.  Nice cars.  "Successful" business.  Great family - oh, not great family.  "We" are real.  "We" don't have to live with appearances (well, maybe the nice house and cars.........but we are not hung up on regularly attending church just because that's what we do...)  That's where it all falls apart for her.  My brother and I were complete rebels, drugs, alcohol................my dad speaks before he thinks.  It kind of blows her whole persona.........that's why she makes herself "somebody" outside of our town.  She does the national board and committee thing.  She travelled a lot in her former job.  

She thinks I compete with her.  Does it sound like I compete with her?  I think I try to knock her down a notch.  Is that competing?  Or is it because I don't want to strive to live up to her impossible expectations?  Is that competition?  Or is it rebelliousness?  Or is it survival?

Gonna keep buying those tickets.  $2 a week for the rest of my life.  I guess I'll call it investing in the hopes of moving on................and I'll always keep my eyes open for another opportunity.  There has to be something out there that will make me feel good about myself.

Wildflower

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« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2004, 02:11:42 PM »
Hi Kelly,

Lots of stuff to sort through and think about hunh?  Life's pretty complicated, even without N's.   :wink:

But hey, this really really hit me, and I needed to respond:

Quote from: Kelly
There has to be something out there that will make me feel good about myself.


No.  There isn't.  There's nothing out there that will make you feel good about yourself.  There's no magic person, no magic pill, no instant solution.  Pretty harsh thing to say, hunh?  But unfortunately/fortunately, it's true.  Because if we had to depend on something else to make us feel good about ourselves, our self-worth would be dependent on the outside world - which is an ever-changing chaotic place. :?

The only way you'll be able to feel good about yourself is to learn to love yourself.  If you can do that, then it doesn't matter what comes in and out of your life, who comes in and out of your life.  It's important to have people in our lives, don't get me wrong.  But until you can be around others without needing them to hold you up, you can't really be with them.  Same goes for things, like cars and houses.  You have to learn to love whoever you are - without those things. :)

So it's not so much about who your mom is, it's about how you feel around her and what you can do to control your life in such a way that she doesn't take too much from you (if that's what she's doing).  You'll never change her - understand her...maybe.  :wink:   The only way your life is going to be more fulfilling is to fill up your insides and stop looking for cures in the outside world.  It's up to you to steer your life in a direction that brings you happiness. :)

{EDIT: I should qualify this by saying that there are tons of things out in the world that can make us happy or feel good, but we have to know ourselves on some level in order to know what those things are.  The Acting Out thread has been touching quite a bit on this topic, I think.}

Hugs (((Kelly)))
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2004, 05:10:58 PM »
What I mean about some "thing" out there, I mean a job where I feel fulfilled.  When you live in your parents' shadow it is hard to feel good about your accomplishments.  When I was younger I worked at a place where I felt good about how good I was at the job.  I had been there a long time and knew I was one of the best.  At this job I am vetoed at every turn by you know who!

Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2004, 11:12:49 AM »
Hi Kelly, before anything else, can I say: I think you’re brave, I think you’re real and human. And you’ve proved you can be a success and that you can survive, that’s done. Talking like you have done, reading our replies, isn’t necessarily easy. The more odd, strange ideas about yourself (and your mother) that you can consider, the better. How about this one:

Your mother is quite happy being who she is. Do you want to make her unhappy by causing her to change? She likes her life. She enjoys the limelight. She needs it. Without it she’ll be unhappy and lonely. Do you want to see that happen?

What is the problem? Where is the problem?

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When you live in your parents' shadow it is hard to feel good about your accomplishments.
That’s true. We can live in our parents’ shadows both physically (at work) and in our heads - trying to be better than them, different to them, trying to prove something in relation to them.

In relation to them. Once we can stop doing anything in relation to our parents, we’ve cracked it. I haven’t yet. But I’m learning. Your mother is not your problem. It’s your concept of your mother, your ideas about her, that need to change? You’re not wrong – you’re just not concentrating on yourself. Your mother’s life has nothing to do with you. Even paying the education fees: get her to pay them direct through the banking system, or to the child, cut yourself out of the loop. It wouldn’t mean you aren’t grateful etc, it simply indicates that she is doing it because she wants to – and that her generosity doesn’t depend on your being grateful. Once you stop feeling controlled by her (and it’s up to you to do that, to change your thoughts and feelings, it’s not up to her to change) – life will so much simpler, calmer, clearer.

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I had been there a long time and knew I was one of the best.

You’ve proved yourself to yourself. You did it, you succeeded. Do you need your mother to recognise it too? It would be nice, but it might not happen and it’s not worth fighting for.

Also, nobody is going to come along and say: “you’re right Kelly, your mother is wrong and we’re going to do it your way instead of hers”. It’s not going to happen. What if it did? Your mother might be shattered. Her confidence – the little she really has – would be gone. Do you see how pathetic she is?

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At this job I am vetoed at every turn by you know who!

It feels like a struggle of some sort. Maybe your struggle for love and recognition from her, but maybe she sees it as a fight for heading the business. I get the impression that you’re more adult than she is, more mature, more self-aware. So you have to take responsibility for your own happiness, your sense of worth. You don’t want the prize for most embittered employee? That’s where it could end, if you don’t let it go. And letting it go is in your head – it’s not solved by moving job alone.

I don’t know you Kelly, I’ve read your posts that’s all. What I’ve written may not apply, it may be wrong. A lot of it applies to me in the past. Yes this is a disclaimer! Hope some of it helps you to think about things differently. Cheers, lottery symbolism guest

Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2004, 04:14:47 PM »
Well the advise is wonderful.  I guess the hang ups I have are in my head.  I am my own worst enemy.  I did have the school send the tuition bill directly to my mom so I didn't have to ask for it, but she did call me the minute she got it to tell me she got it (still needs me in the loop, I guess, wants me to feel what she is doing for me....)

We have had some pretty deep emails where she accused me of wanting her dead, and I told her I didn't want her dead I just wanted her to stop being so negative and that I would be happy to leave the business if that's what she wanted.  Well, she's backed off a bit and went to some employees and apologized for the negativity.  I am on my way - thanks to all of you for the moral support!

Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2004, 04:15:39 PM »
Well the advise is wonderful.  I guess the hang ups I have are in my head.  I am my own worst enemy.  I did have the school send the tuition bill directly to my mom so I didn't have to ask for it, but she did call me the minute she got it to tell me she got it (still needs me in the loop, I guess, wants me to feel what she is doing for me....)

We have had some pretty deep emails where she accused me of wanting her dead, and I told her I didn't want her dead I just wanted her to stop being so negative and that I would be happy to leave the business if that's what she wanted.  Well, she's backed off a bit and went to some employees and apologized for the negativity.  I am on my way - thanks to all of you for the moral support!

Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2004, 04:20:43 PM »
(((Kelly))) hugs!

Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2004, 03:32:36 PM »
So guess what?  All of these posts on this forum has brought my emotions to the surface and I emailed my mom and told her I was bursting into tears and depressed.  We corresponded back and forth (can't talk - it gets too ugly - email seems to be a diffused way to communicate) and something I said got through to her at least temporarily.  She came into work and was upbeat and was saying nice things to the employees and was "counselling" me to work on my self esteem and giving me words of encouragement.  It seems weird and I am not sure if I should trust her enough to let my guard down.  Then I told her that I needed to know her intentions for me for the future.  I need to know if she is going to help with college, etc.  Because I realized that by her not telling me what her intentions are, I imagine that she is pulling my string, etc.  I felt like that was part of the control thing.  And honestly, if she told me she wouldn't help me at all, it would be easier than wondering if and when she would help get my kids through school.  So she agreed to sit down and talk.  So I have made some headway.  Then she started giving me advise and I wanted to email back and tell her to butt out but I just let it go.  If she continues to push, I'll thank her graciously but tell her that I need to figure ME out without her advise.  I think it is getting better but time will tell since it has only been good for a couple days.  And I know you all will tell me to beware.
Kell