Author Topic: NM's birthday  (Read 10096 times)

binks

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2009, 01:17:57 PM »
Being assertive might not work the way you expect.

I sent this email to my mum a little over six months ago, she couldn't stick to it. Was nasty on the phone straight away. Tried a visit, nasty again. Reminded her of these rules, but to no avail.

Hi Mum

We were all rather surprised that you didn’t want to come over and see us at Easter, especially as Fuchsia was poorly and ended up having to stay in for a week. Your not phoning to see how she is compounded that surprise.

As we seem to be having some problems communicating successfully I have devised some ground rules for us all to follow.

Firstly, I will happily speak to you when you remain – sensitive, compassionate, kind and loving. However, whilst you remain spiteful, vindictive, uncaring and self-absorbed I will need space away from you.

These good manners should be extended to all my family.

If you would like to see us, sometimes it needs to be at our house or your place depending on all our needs.

If you would like to go along with this then please phone us.

Your loving daughter

Bianca


A bit of explanation;

Fuchsia is my daughter, her only grandchild.

She was complaining that we never asked her over, but we did and she kept refusing to come.

The bit about extending good manners to my family is because she sent hate mail to my husband and to my father-in-law two months after his wife passed away.

Six months NC now, one of the best things I have ever done.

English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2009, 08:25:18 AM »
Why do I do this to myself?  NM came over for Thanksgiving along with other family.  I was anxious for 2 days because I ddin't know how she would humiliate me.  I keep letting her manipulate me.  For one, she told people I wanted to sit next to her--that I should sit at the head of the table.  I didn't want to sit anywhere near her, BUT I sat where she wanted me to sit because if I didn't, she would embarrass me by saying something or crying or some other kind of temper tantrum.  Which would embarrass me to no end.  So I had a choice of being very tense sitting next to her or extreme embarrassment. 

I feel sooo stuck between her wants and my wants.  If I do what I want, she would embarrass me. If I do what she wants, I am miserable and tense.  Hmmm... a choice between embarrassment or misery.  I'm miserable both ways.  After this weekend (where I will have to spend more time with her--my brother's in town.), I'm going to have to set serious boundaries and tell her that I want limited contact with her.  That is my only way to get unstuck I think.  I'm not sure what boundaries to set.

I don't WANT to talk to her or SEE her at all......but that would lead her to embarrassing me at work and in the family.    And also I would become the SC instead of borderline GC. Is embarrassment and humiliation as painful to you all?  Is the pain of it normal?  Am I too sensitive to humiliation? 

Ami

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2009, 08:32:30 AM »
Dear English
 What you are describing is totally typical for an NM. It is the angst of life with an NM. You are seeing it correctly. She is really THAT bad. That is  what is under your dilemma, IME.   I don't think you can  face how bad she is.
 I am just facing it now after years of moaning, crying  and falling apart on the Board. You can read some of my old posts. I was a dog howling from pain. I could not believe a mother would treat a child like that.
 Keep sharing, English.                            xxxooo   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2009, 05:54:49 AM »
Thanks Ami,

I've decided to go LC.  I'll tell her tomorrow.  I just can't deal with her any longer; I am angry and hurt. I've been talking to my brother who is visiting for Thanksgiving.  After talking to him, I realized how angry I am with her.  I can't stand to be around her.

Butterfly

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2009, 07:38:05 PM »
((((English))))

I, too, have been where you are.  It is extremely difficult to learn about N and all of its ramifications in our lives.  The only way that I could cope upon my realization that my mother has been intentionally trying to ruin me since I was an infant was to go no contact.  All attempts at confrontation with the NM--whether it be comments about her behavior or explanations about why I don't wish to be near her--have only served to increase her abuse toward me.  I have been NC, for the most part, for about two years now.  The only contact has been three horrible email messages from her and my guarded responses. 

"Medium chill" responses have helped me in dealing with others as well as NM, including NF and GC siblings, etc.  I've seen medium chill described here as 1) providing no personal information to Ns, 2) not reacting positively or negatively to what Ns say, 3) smile, nod but stay utterly detached emotionally, and 4) nothing rude but nothing warm either.  But, for me to get to this point, I had to go NC for a long time first.  My few email responses to my NM have consisted of comments on the weather and neutral news items.  That's about it.  Nothing of substance and nothing about me.  I know that any phone conversations or visits will quickly deteriorate to abuse, attempts at control and severe criticism. 

One thing I have also had to watch out for is the NMs desire to ruin me in the eyes of others.  It has been my experience that this will never stop and the further I distance my self from NM in all aspects of my social life, work life, neighborhood, etc., the better off I am.  I recently relocated to a new state, and I do not even tell people that I have a mother.  If someone asks, I simply say she lives out of state, nothing more.  I'm even considering "killing her off" in my conversations, ie.  "I lost my mother several years ago."  Or, "She's no longer with us."   

My heart goes out to you.  Please stay strong for you and love you--that is crucial.

Joy

English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2009, 03:56:44 AM »
Thank you Joy.  I'm just at the beginning of my journey and have a lot of fear and anxiety. I just realized my M was NM at the end of August, and I've been observing her closely to watch her behavior.  My brother is visiting this Thanksgiving, and he has been real helpful.  I realized how angry and bitter I am toward her in my conversations with him about her. It's gotten to the point when I am around her that I get tense and shut down.  I only give yes or no answers to questions and never volunteer anything personal about my life. I get nothing good out of contact with her.  It's all about her and making her feel good at my expense.  I just can't take her any more.  AAAAHHHH!!!!!!

I sure wish I had a mother.  Someone who I could trust and feel safe around.  Someone I could tell my problems to.  Someone who would love me unconditionally.  Someone who would give me helpful advice.  I wish I had a mother. :(

Mother
safe
secure
loving
holding
comforting
wise
trustworthy
happy
helpful

Ok all, what are some qualities of a mother that I left off.

Ami

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2009, 07:52:28 AM »
Dear (((English)))
 I know what that wishing is like!!!!            xxxoo  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ales2

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2009, 06:47:04 PM »
OMG my NMs bday is dec 19th.... thanks for reminding me...all I can do is send a card, a bland one... thats the best I can manage. Nothing else is appropriate.

Ales2

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2009, 08:18:37 PM »
For English:

MOTHER
kind
supportive
an ally
respectful
empathetic
understanding
encouraging
accepting
listening
guiding (w/o controlling)
sincere
honest
trustworthy

English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2009, 04:40:38 AM »
Thanks Ales.

My NM is none of those.  It's a good list.  Oh well, I can wish right?  I know; I'll ask Santa Claus.  Should I leave him cookies and milk?  What should I leave the reindeer?  Cookies..mmmmm...chocolate chip of course.  And real milk, not the skim that I normally buy. :lol:

English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2009, 05:37:00 AM »
At the moment I'm struggling with the conflict of my feelings versus her feelings.  I always put her feelings ahead of mine.  I have to stop that.  It's like welll I don't want to hurt her; she's so sensitive and fragile.  I should put her needs ahead of mine.  I can let her hurt me, but I cant' hurt her.  Her feelings are more important.  I still haven't gone LC with her.  I'm afraid of the conversation.  The anxiety is tremendous although I am not returning her calls.  My brother said to write down what I want to say to her and just read it; stick to the script.  So here goes:

Mom,  I'm going through some stuff right now so I need to make some boundaries.  I will only talk to you on Saturday mornings.  The next time I see you will be at Christmas; after that I'll see you for my birthday (in Februrary).  I'll decide after that when the next time will be.  I am doing this because you hurt me every time I talk to you.  (No I'm not going to say this part about getting hurt. She won't hear it, and I'm too anxious to say it.  ) If you say anything critical or question me or David (my son), I will just hang up. 

Boy she will have a fit.  The problem is that I am imagining her crying and blubbering and feel guilty and fearful.  Why do I put her ahead of me?  I should be the one crying and blubbering because of her.  You know there really is no point in being around her.  When I am, I shut down, get tense, and am miserable just so she can get her NS from me-which isn't much because I shut down.  Her NS is more important than me.  I just can't get it through my head that I am more important than her NS.  How do I do that?  How do I get this image out of my head that I can sacrifice so she will be happy.  But she can't sacrifice for me.  I have GOT to break this stranglehold she has on me!! HOW do I do that?  I need a mantra or something maybe.  To convince myself that I am more important.  But I'm not-yes I am-she is more important- no I am-I can't hurt her feelings, but she can hurt mine-I am important......

gratitude28

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2009, 06:25:11 AM »
English, I am responding only to your initial post. My NM also thinks she "knows" me. But the things she assumes about me are actually her own perceptions of situations. She will tell me she knows I am worried about something when I was not even concerned... As a child I think that influenced me a lot and made me absorb those feelings. It's a way to dominate yet again. They tell us what they think we should be experiencing.
I am glad you are seeing her with open eyes. It helps so much. I am able to see all of NMs tricks now and they rarely affect me at this point, because I know the root of each one (attention). My NM is never happy with presents, no matter how thoughtful, expensive, whatever they are. So I just get something flashy now and let it go. It's not worth the effort. I think it was very thoughtful of you to make a copy of her favorite show. If you had bought her a diamond, she would have found a flaw.
xxxooo
Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Hopalong

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2009, 09:00:17 AM »
Eng,
There's a theory about "Start with the underlying positive" for any time we have to confront someone or set a new boundary. So, if you feel you can address the better (buried) part of herself, maybe this would make it easier to say:

Mom, I know that you value having a lot of contact. I am working on some healthy things for myself that mean I have to set new boundaries with you and have our contact in a structured way. I will talk to you on Saturday mornings, but not at any other time of the week. I will visit you...etc. I am also taking responsibility for what is healthy for me and my family, so if you begin to criticize X or X, I will hang up immediately, and talk to you on the following Saturday...

Dunno if any of that's needed or an improvement, but it's what came to mind.

You can manage your discomfort about her discomfort. Her discomfort is her opportunity, don't take it away from her.

love,
Hops
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English

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2009, 03:45:21 AM »
Thanks Hops
I will use your suggestion about what to say to her.  Today's Saturday, I'll hold my breath and jump in. 

HeartofPilgrimage

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Re: NM's birthday
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2009, 02:17:27 PM »
I'm with CB!!! Why should you have to announce that you're going LC? Just be a busy person ... and realize that she IS going to try to guilt you when you don't call or visit as often, be prepared inside for that.

Get a new hobby or a second job that precludes you from calling or visiting when she's used to it. Have a cold or sudden diarrhea so that you have to cut your phone calls short!

I think the feeling that you OWE her an explanation for cutting your contact with her down to a normal adult level is all part of the boundary problems ... you don't owe her the announcement that basically you are only going to contact her with the frequency that other reasonable adults contact their parents. Even if you contact her LESS than other people you know contact their parents, you don't owe her an explanation. IMO, the only time you need to explain to her is if you decide to not provide normal expectable contact, such as helping her out if she's in the hospital, or attending Christmas as usual, or if you plan to not call her at all for an extended period of time.

For awhile, my young adult son hardly ever called, and he seldom even returned our phone calls. Yes that hurt my feelings, but I also knew that it is pretty normal for a young adult to seek distance from his parents. Now he's back to returning calls promptly and even taking the initiative to call sometimes. Non-N parents get that they are no longer the center of their adult child's world. IMO, the best approach is to get an idea of what normal families do for contact between parents and adult children, and then don't exceed that level of contact even though your N mother is gonna howl like crazy.

Well, anyway that is my opinion. I agree that ANNOUNCING low contact is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. You are just asking for a scene! I don't think you owe your mom an explanation for having a life and not having time or energy to cater to her every whim.