Question about antidepressants

[HeartofPilgrimage]

FIrst, a disclaimer: I know that this is not a medical advice board, and I know that most of you are not medical personnel. BUT, I have weird side effects to medications and so I'm looking for the input from you, a group of people who probably have a lot of accumulated experience with antidepressants.

I have had enough episodes of depression that I will probably need to be on antidepressant meds for the rest of my life. After I have been on any one medication for awhile (at least a year), I start having weird side effects. These side effects don't show up for a long time after I begin.

Right now I have a rash that I have had for about four years. It consists of red patches all over my body. They are not raised and they actually look more like bruises than lesions because if I am good about using lotion or cream on them you can't even feel them on my skin. It is called pityriasis lichenoides chronica. I discovered quite by accident that this rash is due to my chronic use of AD meds because I tried to go off my meds last year, and the rash got better (but then I got to where I couldn't even function --- irritable, no concentration, interrupted sleep, etc.).

Also, I have been on Cymbalta for a year now (my doc switched me off of Effexor even though he still swears the rash is not caused by the ADs ...). For the last few weeks, I can barely get out of bed in the morning and have tingling in my face (especially lip area) and hands. I have not taken Cymbalta for three days now (under doctor's supervision). It has gotten better but now I am experiencing AD withdrawal (which is basically the same symptoms --- weird dreams, can't get going in the morning, etc.).

Anybody else have weird reactions to antidepressants (things not listed on the package inserts or on the website?)? Any suggestions?

I would love to get off the meds but am not willing to drag around for the rest of my life, which is what I experience without them.

[Hopalong]

Hi Pilgrim,
I don't know if this would be right for you, but I used ADs for years (Prozac, Effexor, Cymbalta). They helped a lot but I got to a point where I felt overmedicated and wanted to not take them forever. I wanted to believe in my brain's capacity for regeneration.

I got off the Rx (no picnic, I feel for you) and switched to doing 4 things. If I do all these things consistently, I swear the AD effect is every bit as strong as any Rx I've ever taken--and with no side effects. It's real, iow... When I drop one, I sense the AD effect lessen.

1) regular exercise
2) "blue light" SAD light in the mornings (helpful for any depression, not just SAD)
3) tea (I drink 3 cups of black tea daily)
3) supplements, specifically: fish oil, vitamin D (but I take antioxidants and Co-Q10 also)

Fish oil's amazing for your skin, as well.

love,
Hops

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Thanks, Hops, I am going to brew myself a cup of tea right now. And, go find those supplements I had forgotten about. They might not be as potent as they were when they were new, but it's something. I am disgusted with having my ... rear end ... drag in half an hour after the rest of me arrives ... if you know what I mean.

[Ami]

Dear Hop
 I have never taken AD's and hope I don't get to the point where I must. I respect when people get there and must do it. Thank Goodness AD's are there in those cases.
 I try to embrace the feelings even though sometimes they have been so bad I have  collapsed on the floor.I read Alice Miller who says you must go through the dark tunnel in order to see your past as it was.Then, once you see it, you can see that you were always ok. It was THEM, the abusers who were wrong. I talk to God. He is my everything. I exercise, take fish oils and   let myself cry.
 Pain comes out through tears.
 I am taking singing lessons and sometimes I just sob. My teacher sits there and lets me.
 Having people who allow tears is crucial.        xxxoo   Ami

[Twoapenny]

Hi HoP,

I have always had bad reactions to anti-ds and have never found one that I was able to take long term.  Either they didn't work or, if they lifted the depression the side effects they gave me were so bad I ended up coming off them for that reason.

I switched to complementary therapies (primarily homeopathy) and have found them wonderful.  I see a homeopath on an as and when basis now but initially saw him every three months with phone consultations in between if necessary.  A good diet, supps and exercise is also really helpful as Hops suggests, plus it might be worth getting checked for food allergies.  I found out I was allergic to dairy which I'd never known and a whole host of health problems stopped troubling me when I cut dairy out of my diet.  Wheat and dairy tend to be the most common but I think it's easier to actually get a test and know for sure rather than cutting stuff out to see what happens which is quite a lot of hard work, sometimes for no reason!  The other therapy that helped a lot is acupuncture; the lady I see is also a herbalist and sometimes gives me a rememdy to use as well.  I've used the Bach Flower Remedies a lot and find those helpful, although I've gone via a trained therapist for them rather than trying them out myself.

[JustKathy]

I'm not able to take ANY type of AD. I have had several psychiatrists try me on ADs for my Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and I ALWAYS have adverse reactions. They have the opposite effect on me - they give me depression. Some have turned me into an absolute psycho-woman. I've probably tried 10-15 different ones, and all have been terrible. The last one I tried was Effexor, which made me suicidal.

Now, when I start with a new doctor, I tell them upfront that I will not take ADs, and if they have an issue with that, then I can't be their patient. The only thing that works for my anxiety are benzos (Klonopin). Any psych that tries to talk me into taking an AD, I leave and find a new doctor.

[Logy]

I have taken AD's on and off since I was 30 (so for over 20 years).  Since my initial depression episode I have had several more.  Each time it took me longer to recover and get off the meds.  Each time I have taken Paxil.  After I got off them the last time I still had issues.  Not so much depression but irritability, anger, over-reaction to things.  Everything pissed me off.  So I went on a low maintenance dose.  I do have side effects - sluggishness, tired all the time, low sex drive.  But at least I'm not angry.

One thing though, and it does bother me, is that I don't cry very often.  I used to cry frequently, whether sad, happy, watching a sappy commercial.  So I feel just numb emotionally.  I do think crying is therapeutic, as long as it doesn't interfere with functioning.  So my plans are to go back to the doctor but it scares me to change meds.  It also scares me to try other things.  I would like to try homeopathy.  

Twoapenny, how did you make the transition from ADs to other therapies?

Logy

[HeartofPilgrimage]

You are all really helpful ... hope everybody will keep the suggestions coming! Here's the deal with my depression: Depression runs really really strongly in my dad's side of the family. And, it is only one of a cluster of illnesses that I think are related. I also have narcolepsy, which is not really bad (like you sometimes see on the science channel), it makes the depression worse and vice versa. Another branch of the family has epilepsy. We all have migraines. As we get older, many of our relatives develop type II diabetes. So, although there certainly are aspects of my life that exaggerated my predisposition to get depressed, I think the physical reasons for it are really strong in my family.

When I get depressed these days, I usually don't really feel sad. I don't even have guilty thoughts or self-defeating ones. I just am utterly exhausted, all the time. I can't concentrate, can't remember anything, and get so easily confused. In early adulthood I did a lot of inner work about recognizing the negative messages I send myself ... so although that work is never really done, I think I can safely say that that no longer drives the train.

There's a theory that recurrent depression scars the brain, so that no matter how much healing inner work you do, you can't handle stress and stay out of the depression pit. I think that's where I am. I think I have physical scars that siphon off all the good chemicals in my brain when I have stress. It seems like anytime I get stressed, I'd better watch it or about 6 weeks later I'm in a full-fledged depression.

So, although I can truly appreciate the value of doing a lot of inner work and "just being" with the negativity ... it's hard because of the way the depression manifests itself in me. I am so foggy and forgetful and confused that I can't think straight.

The physical change suggestions I definitely am going to try. I have thought about those things before but am finally getting disgusted with the side effects of the ADs. It's hard to do serious lifestyle changes when you're doing fine! But I'm not doing fine right now.

[Twoapenny]

HoP,

My own disclaimer!  Obviously I am not a doctor and am not attempting to diagnose or treat you on-line but...............................have you investigated the possibiity of adrenal exhaustion?  Being completely worn out all the time isn't unusual if your adrenal glands have packed up and aren't functioning properly.  If I remember rightly, when your body isn't getting enough energy put into it - either because you aren't getting the right nutrients or because stress/trauma etc is taking energy quicker than you can put it in, then you start getting your energy from adrenaline (which comes from your adrenal glands).  It's what would usually sort you out with the old fight/flight response if you came across a woolley mammoth whilst out gathering berries   In my own situation, years of being on constant alert, dealing with high levels of stress - not just because of my family but because I had to do everything brilliantly all the time to convince everyone I was worth something, using drink and drugs to blot out pain etc etc etc all added up and eventually I was constantly worn out all the time.  Again, I'd recommend someone who knows what they are doing, but with diet, supps and plenty of r and r you can repair that sort of damage and get to a point where you don't feel constantly exhausted.  It's worth bearing in mind that all drugs are toxic to our systems because we were never designed to process chemicals, so ironically the things we take to pick us up when we're tired - from prescription meds to sugar and caffeine - actually make the problem worse because our livers then have more toxins to get rid of so have to work even harder to keep us going.

As I said, I'm not a doctor and am not saying this is what is wrong but it might be worth reading around it a bit more and seeing if anything might help in that regard.  The most important part of any recovery is rest - any most of us just don't get it!!

[BonesMS]

I'll share my experiences with antidepressants....

First of all, I have been diagnosed with several forms of depression, (e.g. Seasonal Affective Disorder, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Dysthymia, and I can't recall what else).  When I went to one therapist, who later turned out to be an N, he put me on Prozac.  It worked...for a while...but my body developed a tolerance to it and it STOPPED working.  (I tried to explain to this therapist that my being a recovering drug addict could be a factor given that I had developed a tolerance to the drugs I used to abuse but the NIdiot wasn't interested in listening nor was he interested in HEARING me!)  Eventually, things got so bad with his N-ness that I had to fire him!

Then, in the fall of 2008, my general practitioner put me on Lexapro and Trazadone.  Unfortunately, their side effects were SO BAD that I literally COULD NOT function and my then-employer had NO tolerance for anyone's illnesses and I lost my job.  Having other physical illnesses, including my heart, didn't help matters any.  The original general practitioner who prescribed these meds had to return to her home country as both her parents became seriously ill and I've had a succession of other general practitioners who (1) don't really know me and (2) don't seem interested in taking the time to REALLY listen when I attempted to discuss the side effects of any medications.  As a result, I had to take myself off the Lexapro and Trazadone COLD TURKEY!  (I do NOT recommend this method to anyone else!)  I've regained some of my physical functions but the Depression is STILL there!  Now, because of my drug history, I am EXTREMELY reluctant to trust ANY antidepressants!

Bones

[Nonameanymore]

Dear HoP (and girls),

I am taking St John's Wort for a few years now.
They don't have any side effects and they do kick in quite quickly.
I read in a couple of books that a lot of people are happy taking them instead of pure chemicals but my disclaimer is that I can't seem to be able to quit them.
For me it's not so much the mood thing, but the lack of energy I feel when I don't take them.
Something that you may want to look at are Bach Flower Remedies - not sure where you live but Neal's Yard Remedies do a blend of them called 'Optimism' that really kicks ass! (it's an English company but I think they have a distributor in the US as well).

I agree with others who said that a good diet and exercise regime can do wonders. But when I feel blue, I sometimes feel that it's my life that needs sorting and not so much my nervous system. I am confident that when I will decide to uproot certain things, I will be totally blissful...

In the meantime, I will keep taking my St John's wort....!

P.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I am taking all of your suggestions to heart: herbal remedies, lifestyle improvements, looking up adrenal fatigue.

I have been pushing and pushing myself for years, and I'm probably also getting to an age where the old style of coping (just push through the fog) isn't working so well because my body is just saying "NO!"

I just want to get through with my degree so I can work with children without a supervisor always looking over my shoulder ... I'm on the home stretch, internship and dissertation is all I have left ... so I've just got to somehow muddle through this year to 18 months.

[debkor]

Hi HofP

I don't know anything about antidepressants but when I was peri-meno and stressed up to my eyeballs b/p when sky rocket.
I visited my Dr and he prescribe me an antidepressant to take at night.  I went home and became depressed having to take them.

My sister went down to the local health food store and bought me 7 flower remedy (pill form) that people took to help them sleep, relax, and found that they lower b/p.  I figured wha the hec...and low and behold...I was so relaxed and when I visited my Dr. one month later he told me to keep taking the antidepressants my b/p was normal...Uh! doc, never did.  I told him about the 7 flower remedy and he told me to keep taking them.

You can look up the rescue remedies but I'd run it by your Dr. first if you decide you want to try it...

Love
Deb

[SilverLining]

There are a lot of great suggestions above.  I used antidepressants for 4 years during the 1990's and eventually weaned myself off.  I consider that phase of my life an extension of the self medicating (with alcohol e.t.c..) I started at age 16.  It wasn't a cure for the problem, it was just a way of covering it up.  Lifestyle and thought improvement has been a more lasting cure for me.  I gave up caffeine, alcohol, tobacco,  a rotten job I hated.  I started taking vitamins and making sure to get regular exercise.  I did a lot of study of narcissism and family problems,  distanced myself from the FOO, and learned new methods of dealing with my own thoughts.

The comments above confirm something I have suspected for years.  It seems to me very few people are permanently cured by AD's without other  behavioral and lifestyle changes.  Both of my siblings are on large doses of antidepressants, and IMO it's causing them enormous problems.  My brother is 75 pounds overweight and developing all sorts of medical issues.  Before taking AD's, he was healthy and fit.  My sister keeps trying to quit the AD's, but the withdrawal symptoms scare her out of it.  They both live the most static lives of anybody I know.  Very little ever changes for them except their prescriptions.  They aren't cured, just drugged into numbness.

The medical community is just now getting around to acknowledging the possibility of withdrawal symptoms.  The previous response was always to prescribe more chemicals.  From what I have gathered Cymbalta is especially difficult to quit. 

 

[HeartofPilgrimage]

So far, the weaning myself off is working well! I have been taking my meds every 3 days or so, which is enough to stave off withdrawal symptoms for now, but at the same time the side effects are much much less. I feel so much better.