Author Topic: religion & NPD  (Read 8439 times)

findingme

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religion & NPD
« on: October 20, 2004, 10:06:39 PM »
Just curious how many of you have Ns that claim to be Christians?  Three of my four have a strong "faith" & attend church regularly.  They even sound pretty good when they talk about their faith (they usually *sound* good!).  It's just when the N flashes & the real person appears, their behavior flies in the face of all that they proclaim to believe & leaves you thinking "huh???"  

p.s.  I am a Christian, so this post is not trying to blame Christianity for NPD or any association with it!  Just wanted to compare notes...

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2004, 11:30:09 PM »
I have a crazy Nfather that claims to be "born again". That's great if you can actually walk the walk, but this guy is such a sham.

He was married to a very nice Christian woman, her I believed. For some reason he got it into his fool head that her son was gay. He happens to be married and is expecting his second child. You can't convince Ndad that this is not true, but he believes it and his wife just didn't "understand" that Jon is a sinner and this needs to be resolved. Got to the point where his wife finally filed for divorce. And this was no small feat for her. Dingdong Dad just doesn't understand why she might be upset about Jon "being gay" and he's now got the entire church they belong to in their business. There is a lot more to the story, but what he claims to be and what he really is are worlds apart. Amazing to me, yet appaling.

Ellie

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religion & NPD
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2004, 11:35:30 PM »
...

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2004, 12:53:10 AM »
Hi y'all,

A PK here (preacher's kid).  My experience is that many people really are trying to be "correct" and live righteously.  But the Myers-Brigg "J" part of some people kicks in when other people fall short, in their eyes.  Religion can draw lots of Ns because who can argue with God? And they speak for God, you know.  Just one step away from being God...

There is a wonderful book by the founders of AA called the Spirituality of Imperfection.  It talks about people learning to be "not-God".  I wonder if there is some link between the compulsion to be right, to be perfect, and placing this importance higher than the impulse to nurture healthy relationships and substance abuse. But that is another thread...

One of my favorite quotes is from the Dalai Lama: "Kindness is my religion."  Says it all.

Peace, Seeker

OnlyMe

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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2004, 09:08:51 AM »
Excellent thread idea!

Both NParents - pillars of the church.
NM sings in choir, bible study, and the minister is always a 'friend' - comes to her place for dinner - and when ND died in June the minister kept at me to try harder to be close to NM, that he 'Knew' she was wanting that, and it was time for me to extend my hand and open up to her, that she was just waiting for me, etc etc - even HE doesn't see her NPD.  That was horrible for me, for once again, N was believed and I was not.  
What better place for Ns to prove that they are good than in a church environment?  Others in the community see her singing in the choir, so OF COURSE she of wonderful!
Ns are very skilled at performing perfectly for each situation, and all the pompous posturing seems to flatter the people in their lives.  However, I have noticed that NM never lets anyone get close to her, so no one ever really gets to know her, just her facade.  She lies, uses people for her 'need of the moment', and discards them when she is done.

I have been struggling with the Fifth Commandment : "Honour thy father and thy mother".
I have been doing so, just because it is right, but am having quite a struggle with that one.  I think they should be honourable, to be honoured. :?:
~ OnlyMe

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2004, 09:41:47 AM »
Ack that commandment : "Honour thy father and thy mother" is in fact a huge threat - something like 'so that your days on the earth may be long'??

So if you don't 'honour' them, you'll die? What kind of a loving rule is that? It's a rule built on fear, intending solely to keep the population under control. It's utter rubbish, written by men who wanted to suck up to those in positions of power in the State-run religion of the time.  :shock: Got a bit carried away there but it makes me mad, religion is responsible for so much human suffering.

And have you noticed, there isn't one religion that focuses on life and only life? All of the major religions have an afterlife of some description. So they control you in this life, with promises of rewards in the next. What nonsense but how effective in stopping people thinking for themselves.

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2004, 11:33:51 AM »
This is Ellie - not logged in

Quote
Ack that commandment : "Honour thy father and thy mother" is in fact a huge threat - something like 'so that your days on the earth may be long'??


Funny that you bring that up....

Nparents always interpreted that one to mean they had the power and right to kill their child of they didn't obey them - at least that's what they taught me.

Such LOVE!!!!! :x

kat

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religion & NPD
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2004, 11:56:06 AM »
I also was raised by Christian parents - spare the rod and spoil the child and all of that.  

However, I wound up going to a Christian camp over the summer and meeting a great older counselor.  She cared for all of her campers the same way, and over the years mentored us and introduced us into leadership.  She is now the camp director.  I look at her mentoring and influence as the way I got away from my parents.  To this day she is more of a mom to me than my nmom is.

I have a few comments about honoring your parents.  I stil do go to church - and our pastor was raised by 8 stepdads who regularly beat him and his mother up.  He was talking about honoring your parents even after abuse.  

His words have helped me tremendously. His way of interpreting honoring is give credence to what they have to say.  Mostly everything that my nmom says is wrong and unhealthy and I can dismiss it.  Rarely, does she say things that are valid (and it takes a long time to disect through all her words to find it).  

. . . .and even though his words have helped tremendously, it's not easy when I wind up on the phone with nmom for hours!

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2004, 12:19:15 PM »
Good Question..I wondered the same thing.

I was raised catholic.  We went to parochial school.  My parents are Eucharistic Ministers :roll: I always thought it was so hypocritical that my Nmom could stand on an altar and give out communion to people when she couldn't even apologize or recognize that she was fallable herself.  So needless to say, honor thy father & mother was HUGE in my house.  My grandmother watches the mass everyday and you can find tons of religious articles in her house. I was told my grandmother that I needed to go back to the church cuz the  :evil: devil must be in me and that it would clean my conscience :roll:

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2004, 12:37:58 PM »
Organized religion is 95% guilt trip, 5% other stuff.

Children of Ns grow up with massive amounts of guilt the Nparents pour on them. To have to then accept the guilt the church throws out is overwhelming.

Ellie

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religion & NPD
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2004, 12:49:28 PM »
Angrygirl again (not logged in)

I remember when my Nmom would say "Honor thy father & mother" to me, I used to think of this from one of the psalms -  Fathers do not nag thy children, lest they lose heart (but I changed it to "Mothers")  :P

bunny

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religion & NPD
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2004, 01:09:09 PM »
Quote from: OnlyMe
I have been struggling with the Fifth Commandment : "Honour thy father and thy mother".
I have been doing so, just because it is right, but am having quite a struggle with that one.  I think they should be honourable, to be honoured. :?:



Here's how I interpret this commandment: "Don't attack, kill, or maim your parents. Treat them as well as you can, safely."

bunny

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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2004, 01:36:50 PM »
I interpret it to mean: provide your parents with great respect, which is, for me, the natural way. Now, of course, that would imply that the child would be loved and treated in a natural way. I think it also means to give them more slack than you do others in this life. I did all that -- wait, I WAY OVERDID ALL THAT. The twisted wickedness of Nparents makes all of this non-applicable. Sometimes when I remember all the squirming I did trying to please the unpleasable, it makes me embarrassed. I wonder what others thought to see such a strong woman melt into a puddle. I have a friend who tells me I always "made excuses" for the NQueenmother's treatment of me and, as far as that goes, for all her actions. But, my friend had a regular mother and she doesn't get it. You can't pet a snake, nor can you turn your back on them.

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2004, 02:03:19 PM »
Hello Carie Anne,

It's funny you should post this question - I've been thinking about this very thing over the last few weeks.

I come from a line of at least 5 generations of pure narcissism, mostly female.  There's my generation (the great grandchildren), my mother and her sisters generation (all three women seriously damaged by their abusive, neglectful, histrionic mother; my grandmother).  But the root of those three generations of chaotic dysfunction, as far as any of us can trace it back, would be to my Great grandmother, who is still alive.  She and my Great grandfather had their first child in the 30's.  He was in the war, she was the "good chrisitian" housewife/mother.

My Great grandmother is of rigid German heritage, and her father was an abusive drunk.  

My Great grandmother's narcissism is so obvious, everyone in the family sees and recognizes the dysfunction.  The two of them (my Great grandparents) are EXTREMELY pathological in their religiosity.  The way the church owns them, it's disturbing to watch.  Nearly everything that comes out of either one of their mouths, for all of us three generations after her, was riddled with bible babble.  There's nothing like being told by your Great grandother that "if you let the Lord into your heart he will heal you of your chronic, incurable disease" - trying to express to me that my disease is the work of the devil - and that loving jesus will cure me when medical science can't.  And it's funny cos - jesus hasn't healed my Great grandfather of HIS bowel condition that he's has since he was in his 20's.

They are a strange couple - he talks in tongues at night - and claims that on somenights he becomes posessed by demons.  I've heard him ranting in the wee hours of the morning - babbling, fighting, screaming at the "demons" - I suppose this is some form of dementia - maybe schitzophrenia.

Their religiosity caused 4 generations of massive dysfunction in all branches of my family.

Anonymous

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religion & NPD
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2004, 02:17:06 PM »
From Ellie:

MAYBE our Nparents saw the following verse to mean: 'No matter what you do to your children, they may not get angry! Don't let them speak, don't let them show emotion, don't let them be happy, but teach them how you interpret MY word"

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"Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord. Eph 6.4"


MY Nparents missed this part of the Bible:

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"Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD, but those who deal truthfully are His delight."
Prov 12.22



MAYBE our parents (for those abused) lived their lives by this verse:

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"Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"
..........Psalms 137:9"



And our fathers thought us girls were nothing to respect because:

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"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
..........1 Corinthians 14:34


AHA!! That is why I got my face smacked for speaking in church!!!! Now I finally know!

And here we go again - sorry males of Nparents, can't find any thing stating why you couldn't speak....

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"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
..........Timothy 2:11


Now I know why we are all hurting:

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"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34


OR MAYBE it's this:

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"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
..........Luke 14:26


OOOPS, Nparents MISSED the very last part "and even his own life"......


OK, I'm done.... :roll: