Author Topic: Another layer of the onion  (Read 35352 times)

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #135 on: April 28, 2010, 04:37:20 PM »
When I was young I did not realize how fear based my existance was.
I was unaware of how afraid of my father I was in large part because I longed to connect with him. 
Of my two parents, he was the only one who did anything with me or who paid me any attention.
I did not realize that his attention was out of his bizarre sense of duty rather than out of love.
I would have done anything to be included or to get his attention.
I went to extraordinary efforts to do things that I thought were important to him.
I was completely unaware of the dynamics I was caught up in.
The residual anxiety has been with me my entire life.

It follows me and has unconsciously attached to everything around me.
That fear of being excluded and turned on finally has a connection for me.
Now I hope, that connection having been made, that I can use Schwartz' 4 steps to retrain my brain and focus on what positive is happening rather than the negative.

Hopalong

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #136 on: April 28, 2010, 05:30:10 PM »
Hi sweet (((((((((((GS)))))))))))).

Hugs from me and my ghost furry B.

I was thinking. Do you suppose neurological reprogramming can also be accomplished by adding some indirect approaches?

(Note, please: This is not a criticism. An observation, or better put, a query, since I could be reading it wrong.)

I sometimes sense that you might be approaching your history and pain incredibly frontally. And indeed that has probably brought you very far.

But I wonder if medication for GAD (I needed it for years, and what a change it made enabling me to shift my comfort zone a bit) -- would permit you to try some new actions, such as seeking group support, asking for help from others in 3-D, etc., rather than as many hours of thoughts or rumination, about it all?

Not as a REPLACEMENT for deep thinking, but as a BALANCE to it.

BTW, when I first went on my mild dose of generic ADD Rx, I feared anxiety symptoms (my panic attacks were legion for a couple decades). I specifically asked my MD if, should those sympoms occur, there was any contraindication to take a mild muscle relaxant (diazepam) during my adaptation to the ADD Rx. And he said, none whatsoever, and he was right. I took a LITTLE anti-anxiety Rx, started the ADD Rx, and soon dropped the former and halved the latter.

And I have been TREMENDOUSLY helped by this appropriate Rx support. May not use it always and I am content to change things later.

But when I hear your fear, your quivering, and feel your white-hot pain...I wonder why you should not have the same kind assistance? To help you begin befriending your outer world, and your human community needs, while you continue to do this heroic work on your inner world?

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2010, 06:58:34 AM »
Thanks for your suggestion Hops.
I have taken anti-anxiety at times in recent years and find it helpful when the anxiety is at its worse.
What I am going through now is uncovering the deepest pain that began so long ago.
This is important work for me.
I come here to post because it is a safe place and because I believe that this is all related to the N experience in my life.
In writing about my work, I find that I am able to uncover more and more.

I have lived with fear my entire life but only very recently recognized that.
I do remember using the phrase, "waiting for the other shoe to drop" for several years,
but I was not then able to relate it to the anticipation of my father's harsh belittlement.
Now that I have made that connection, I can use my techniques to reprocess this.
For me, the key is bringing this stuff that has been conceal in my unconscious into my active understanding.

The fear was instilled by constant criticism and the unconscious expectation of that criticism. 
Many years ago, while in college I read a philosophical piece that referred to a PanOpticon.
The PanOptican was used to instill in prisoners the possibility of constant surveillance.
When I read that I connected immediately - even though I did not understand why.
But the connection came from that experience that rebuke was lurking around the corner only which corner would it be?

Ever vigilant. 
Ever expecting the disempowering move.
Now that I am aware of this I can "reattribute".
Using Schwartz' 44 steps and EFT and visualization of what I want. 
The combination will bring about the desired results.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2010, 07:47:33 AM »
I have unlocked yet another very important piece of the puzzle.
My father actually longed for me to fail.
I hear his voice telling me, "You deserved that." and "You get what you deserve."
Meaning that I deserved failure.

I have lived in this doublebind of feeling expected to do well and knowing that being successful would bring his rath.

I look back at the things that I was successful at and he either did not respond at all or picked out and highlighted every single minor flaw.  He was racked with perfectionism and used that to tear down each and every step along my path.

Much of my anticipatory anxiety is the fear and expectation that I will fail with each and every task at hand.  That has lead me to the paralysis.  Now that I know that I know I can fight it.

Today I am moving forward, not out of fear but out of hope.

I dedicate my move forward to my son and to my beloved dog Paros.

Hopalong

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2010, 08:56:43 AM »
I am glad you post what you need to, GS. I think sometimes questions must be a distraction and I'm a barrel of them. No worries if you answer or not, that's your right to choose.

Wow. Your father must've grown up feeling absolutely worthless, to project that so intensely onto his own child.

Do you know anything about how his brain was programmed? I'm imagining really vicious grandparents, or twisted hellfire preaching, or both.

Doggie?

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

CB123

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #140 on: April 29, 2010, 11:58:21 AM »
Strength,

I hope you will post more about what you are feeling...this hits close to home.  I have reacted differently than you--I tend to be hyper achieving until I crash in utter exhaustion.  Which I did today.  Only took me three years  :(.

Anyway, I hope you will share your insights...I am working on my demons from a different angle than you--I will share what I learn if it turns out to be helpful.

Hang in there.

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #141 on: April 29, 2010, 02:05:30 PM »
Hops - your questions give my fight life.  Your questions are questions that Imust ask myself and have an answer.  It is through the questioning that I am able to get deeper to the core.  I am forever greatful for your prodding and your sharing.  It makes me feel alive.

My father's parents were not kind people.  They were very formal, especially my grandmother.
My father told my brothers about a time when he was a young child and his father had been away.  His mother took him to the train station to pick up his father.  As a child child is wont, he asked with glee, "What did you bring me?" and his father replied with muffled rage. "I brought you nothing! You are an ungreatful child and you will never receive from me again."
Trouble is, my father told that story as a learning tool, seeing nothing wrong with his father's retort. 

As you might imagine there are more stories like that which my father thinks noble.

CB - thank you for your comments.  I admire your work ethic and pray that I am moving right into that same attitude.  I am sorry that you have crashed at long last.  But I am very interested in reading what you are uncovering in your own work.  This place of sharing has such healing potential.

I am not stagnant but just slow.

Thank you both for your words.

Worn

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #142 on: April 29, 2010, 03:11:39 PM »
((((GainingStrength))))

Wishing you strength and insight as you go through this.  Worn
You live and learn. At any rate you live.  Douglas Adams

sKePTiKal

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2010, 08:28:19 AM »
It's hard for me to remember that you are fearful, when I keep seeing so much strength and courage. It's a contradiction for me, but I do know (from experience) that great fear can co-exist with the possibility and resources to overcome it. However you choose to overcome it, I know that you are only one thought, feeling or moment away from total success.

Perhaps my suggestion to "turn away" from the darkness of the past and try something else was premature. I do know that it can seem like a very large leap until the time is absolutely "right" for the person involved. In hindsight, this "event" or step in the work seems simple, so small it could be missed... yet so "logical"; so commonsense. And maybe it's possible for this to happen at the same time as your current working process - I don't know. I hope my suggestion didn't offend!

I do know, that the one thing that seems to be missing in all your descriptions of your experience, the doublebinds, etc. is that moment of celebrating a success, the hug of pride from a parent in a job well done - and consolation and encouragement for a good effort that "just missed" the goal. And I do know, that it's possible to do this for ourselves - no matter the old taboos, fears and patterns. This all by itself, can start to scrumble that brick wall one beats head on.

"Nothing bad will happen", if you try it - maybe you won't see anything "good" immediately, either !  :D But the important thing, is that nothing bad - no other shoe will drop - if you try it. It's like trying a new shade of lipstick...

((((((((((GS))))))))))))

Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2010, 11:55:02 AM »
Oh yes PR.  What a good point. So odd - it took me years to recognize that fear just for the very reason that I saw myself as being strong.  It is some very odd conflict but I do think it makes sense in that my father was so subtly ruthless with his incessant criticism and putdowns and this took an internal toll while by nature I am strong.  The unconscious voice he implanted went to work chipping away over time without ceasing.

Quote
I do know, that the one thing that seems to be missing in all your descriptions of your experience, the doublebinds, etc. is that moment of celebrating a success, the hug of pride from a parent in a job well done - and consolation and encouragement for a good effort that "just missed" the goal. And I do know, that it's possible to do this for ourselves - no matter the old taboos, fears and patterns. This all by itself, can start to scrumble that brick wall one beats head on.

Yes this is correct.  Thank you from my deepest heart for seeing this.  It is a way of being understood that goes beyond words.
What has taken my years to actually understand is that not only was the hug and pride not there but in fact success brought out a sabotage.  Thus a double fear when I undertake something important - fear of failure but also a repressed fear of success.  Just writing this is enough to trigger that sensation of humiliation.

I am battling this out in a kind of give and take - working on dredging up this darkness from my unconscious and bringing it forward while also keeping a focus on the positive and keeping my eyes focused forward.  This may be a disastrous method.  Perhaps I should do one at a time.  I am not sure.  The only thing I feel strongly about is the need to bring all of this up, to get to the core wounds.
I do feel hopeful and I feel close but there is still a tremendous barrier.

I was thinking of something today.
i have developed a real addiction to places on the internet.  I
That addiction is 100% related to the need to connect.
That is the other side of the same coin that I write so often about in terms of loneliness and rejection, etc.
I know (not feel) that this comes from my childhood experiences where there was no connection as a child and the ones made when detected were twarted.  Perhaps this is an important place for work.  Not sure really.  Just know that I must continue to move forward and figure this out as I go.

I continue to be profoundly thankful for the comments and insights and suggestions that you and others offer me here.  These interactions are lifegiving and push me further and further forward.  and that is thanks to you too Logy, I appreciate your comment more than you will know.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:56:42 AM by Gaining Strength »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2010, 09:27:24 AM »
Well, as to meeting the need to connect via the internet - I really don't think that's such a bad thing, you know? I know that I have such a strong sense of needing to be somewhat mysterious, withdrawn... hiding... my self from people - especially in 3-D; especially meeting new people (and so "busy" internally trying not to repeat the old patterns... and busier still trying to not kick myself for being this way) that without this place, to blab out the real "me" and say out loud "what I really feel" where others can respond - my connections with people would be few & far between. I have to remind myself that I have a real need to connect with others and this need is good for me - like fiber is good for digestive system.

This internal busy-ness reads as standoffish to others, I guess. Or dull, stick-in-the-mud. What brings this up, is that we went to a gathering of our new neighbors last night. And even with hubby and an old friend by my side - I still couldn't bring my "self" out enough to be "me" all that much. I knew it was a mistake, but I immediately set up my chair on the perimeter and edge of the "group" and sat down - creating the old "steel wall" boundary that only a few intrepid (or amazingly kind) people would dare approach. I did enjoy the people who weren't put off by that. (The better to flee, if I needed to... sigh!) Then, I sort of attached myself to my social butterfly hubby to see how the group mingled & schmoozed. My immediate neighbors here were there - and the wife is a no-holds-barred extrovert who is tons o' fun. I tended to settle in with her. And as usual, I found myself more comfortable with the topics of the groups of men than the women - except for this neighbor. She's outspoken and straightforward; no pretenses. I like that, I guess, because I'm still afraid to show that side of myself. I am very much that way, with people I know well; but in social situations I clam up like a teenaged girl at her first dress-up dance!!!!!! Drives me nuts and I can't pretend to myself that this is some sort of inner "confidence" or just being an introverted person - I'm not; I'm very interested in people and their lives & stories. This is just a hold-over from my mom shaming me and my reactionary feeling of self-consciousness or unworthiness based on a false idea that there is some "right", "proper", "appropriate" way to BE.

As to working in two directions at once, GS: that is the nature of the process, I think. Just the way it is. And it's not that dangerous - because even if you do make a mistake NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN. You simply recognize the mistake, stop doing that, and try something different. Like my social personality: it's based on the fact that I worked & competed with men in traditionally male occupations, so I'm naturally comfortable in their groups and I thrived on the attention & approval from them that I didn't get from my dad. I avoided groups of women all my life - precisely because I expected to be treated like my mom treated me - so I keep making the effort to connect with women because I want to, I need to and it's the "cure" for this fear of shame, puritanical hellfire & brimstone condemning "judgement" about "who I am" that I endured with her.

It really does start getting better; easier from this point on for you, I think. But I have to admit that even after the really "hard" parts of the process, I am still the product of the FOO I came from... and even tho' I "know the enemy" so much better than before and it's easier than ever for me to know "what's going on" and my part in that and how to change it... it STILL comes up to be processed, dealt with and resolved, and go on........ again. For me, this is my "normal". It's not a disability or disadvantage because I am coping with it; making some allowances; and I keep trying & going on.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2010, 10:42:29 AM »
I have not read your last post yet PR.
I have something that I need to get down before I take in your wisdom.

I want to write about two things this morning.
The first is this process, how it works and where I think I am in it.
The second is about what small tidbits more I am gleening about my relationship with my mother.

Understanding the process is important for me because it is a kind of a road map.  As I understand it, I gain hope in the midst of the journey.

I have felt as though I have been going backwards for a couple of weeks.  That is always a terrible experience where hopelessness peeks his miserable head in everynow and then and recovery takes longer each time.  Keeping hope is essential to staying on the journey no matter how lost I seem.  So last night, amidst a spot of hopelessness, I saw a repetition of something that I remember from other healing experiences.  First of all the journey is long.  The high energy and expectation when the work first begins always wains and discouragement sets in somewhere along the way.  That is where I have been - lost.  But last night I remembered that this is good news, that it always gets worse before it gets better, that it is darkest before the light and I found renewed hope and renewed determination.

The pain, loss, wounding that I am working on now is huge and primary.  It is peeling back the layers of repression of things I never wanted to know.  It is uncovering the lack of love, the lack of support, the antagonism that befell me from my father and mother, the very humans who should have encouraged and loved and planned for. And as always when the emotional knowledge follows head knowledge the pain is acutely severe.

I am digging at that place where I uncover the source of my shutdown - the anticipatory anxiety that I have snippets of from ages 5 on through 10 when I both longed to be with and be noticed by my father and feared the extreme rejection and humilation.  It happened in this process that love and longing and humiliation became joined and intertwined in my life.  Now I am lost in a wilderness as I try to extricate love from retaliation.

All of this has been repressed for so long and the pain so severe.  I am connecting these dots of longing to be heard, to be understood, to be included with the certainty of being slashed, eviscerated and punished for trying only to get back up and try again and fall into a wretched pattern where rejection and belittlement were part of the process of fighting for inclusion and support, fighting for my right to be.  But the default for me was always humiliation and rejection.  THAT is what I have been writing of.  It is the cycle of survival that for years I have described as having a wheel stuck in the mud, where the harder I tried to get out, the harder I pressed the accelerator, the deeper I became stuck.  Insanely the harder I have tried to get out of a difficulty the deeper into the mire I have gone.  This is why bringing this stuff out into the open is a critical, key step in releasing it.  It is a form of shining a light on the string holding the elephant captive.  It involves reexperiencing the pain that I have for so long repressed as a means of survival.  Reexperiencing the full force feels like it will kill me. Though I know it must be in order to be free.

My father flourished on humiliating me and he always finished with "I'm doing this for your own good."  As obvious as that would be to dismiss as an adult, as a child, dependant on this man for life, thought it angered me, it became a part of my "truth" and has lived a life of its own in my unconscious for lo these many years, reaking havoc along the way.

Here is one example from my earliest years when a sadness and need of compassion earned punishment and rejection.  I have written about this before but it ellustrates what I am writing about so well.

One Sunday evening when I was about 4 our family gathered around the television to watch Disney.  This evening it was Dumbo.  When it came time that Dumbo was taken away from his mother, I began to cry.  My father told me to stop crying or leave the room.  But I was four and it was a terrible scene and only know do I understand that the punishment added to my tears which then began to flow harder.  I was sent to my room - dismissed, rejected, isolated and alone.  I stayed in the hallway in view of the TV but out of their sight and I watched and I cried and cried utterly in silence.  My mother never once comforting me in the moment or later that night or next day.  I have memory after memory of similar experiences.  For years i could not write of them because I feared that they would either be dismissed or that I would be told that his was just punishment.

The rejection and isolation were institutionalized in my family with the phrase, "No, you are too young and you are a girl."  that phrase was enough to cut me out of most family activities.  I could go on and on with such stories of isolation and rejection but I know what a scar they have had on my soul and this story is enough to evoke the memory of many.

My father made it clear that what good I received was by the kindness of his heart.  I deserved nothing that was not bestowed on me by his generousity.  This sounds like a small issue but in truth I now know that I have waited all of my life to have the things I wanted most to be bestowed on me rather than earned.  There was no earning in my childhood and this was a process that was repeated over and over and over again so deep inside, down into the recesses of my being I saw that my struggles to earn were yet more opportunities to snatch success out of my hands.  The "not deserving" is the next place to go.  I am working on it simultaneously with the "rejection."  But the pain and loss of "not deserving" is even greater than the rejction and humiliation of being punished for wanting to belong.

I can go deeper and deeper into this but I am going to switch to the small things that have been coming up in terms of my mother.

I took my little boy to visit with her for a couple of hours yesterday.  When it came time to go we needed to scurry to get to my son's guitar lesson.  There are always several things that must be done on our way out.  My son has without exception ditched his shoes who knows where, gotten food and drink without cleaning up, left a light or TV on upstairs, etc., etc.  So we have to get cleaned up and out of the door.  As I am hustling to corral my son and get him to follow up she comes toddling in on her walker and wants to talk about  planting a rose outside in the front of her house.  I am scrambling to keep my son on task, hurrying and getting irritated.  The suddenly the picture gets clear - this is an incredible pattern with her - when we leave she then - for the first time in the visit - tries to engage me.  It is a very subtle and complicated dynamic. 
1) She not only never helps me but she passively, regularly competes for my attention and my help with my son.  As a person with ZERO reserves and few, few resources this passive agressive behavior always takes a toll.  More is being demanded of me than I have to give.  It is small and subtle but it has in the past engendered an explosive reaction.  Yesterday I finally saw why.  She in her N trait way, looks for points of stress to pile on more.  She also has a way of choosing to not notice when I am fully capacitated.  When my arms are full or my personal gas tank empty or I am dealing with a intractable child she always pounces with something  utterly inconsequential and yet the straw that breaks her daughter's back.  And this past week when I was loading my crippled dog in the back of the car, trying to get my son to come and get to the next stop she came to the door and began again.  It was in that moment that I saw the whole dynamic.  She has no interest, no concern about my being, my struggle, my self.  She is clueless and utterly unconcerned.  That little flash was a lightening strike.  It made it clear that she does these things in order to overload me, to test me, to exert her power.  She occassionally says things that make it sound as if she cares but she really operates only on perfunctory use of language that she has learned but has no emotive meaning to her.  She is a soulless automoton wreaking havoc on my emotions simply to test her manipulative power.  I think this insight will give me even more freedom from emotional engagement with her and i have already gained quite a bit.

Hopalong

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2010, 12:44:11 PM »
GS...

the rapid-clutching-engagement (more attention to MEEE) just before one is trying, overwhelmed, to exit...is
EXACTLY what I lived with my Nmother for many many years. I recognize your description as though it happened to me, on the same threshold, same porch, same driveway, in the same single parent stress.

What I hope may comfort you a little, in your very important acceptance of that reality...is that one day you will wake up and see that whole horrible panoply as something else.

For all its gothic drama, her behavior (and his) -- is just

a symptom.

Your mother has the disease. NPD. And it really does penetrate to the bone marrow. And you are right.

She does not care.

It is not, however, because she would not in the wild swirl of fantasy and distortion in her mind, LIKE to think of herself as a caring mother. Nor that your father doesn't have an equally insane narrative going on in his. You've heard the dialogue, you've shared it here. And it is insane.

It is because they CANNOT care, because that is a symptom of the diseases they have. Surely she has NPD.

Your father? Perhaps NPD comingled with sociopathic disorder. Some deep personality disorder. One or more of those. That is real isn't it? In spite of the uniqueness of each family, isn't this diseased the way heart disease is heart disease whether it's Bill Clinton's or Bubba's down the block?

Your parents' conditions are DISEASES of the mind and heart. You do know, in your rational mind, they are incurable.

Part of nature, that some living beings are unwell and unable.

I am so sorry that your parents are among them. But they are.

So, you are and will be doing things to reject that inheritance. Because you have knowledge of psychology and these diseases that they, generationally, socially, culturally, can't and won't ever have.

You have the knowledge to stop the cycle. That's what you're doing.
And you can become a healthy person.

The timing and speed, you're doing the best you can. The outcome, though, you won't be much like your parents at all, inside.

Without them.

love to you,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2010, 03:19:28 PM »
Quote
is EXACTLY what I lived with my Nmother for many many years

Oh my goodness - that's EXACTLY why I love this place.  Because every now and then we REALLY connect

Quote
What I hope may comfort you a little, in your very important acceptance of that reality...is that one day you will wake up and see that whole horrible panoply as something else.

Oh yes hops - I totally get it.

No question that she still irritates me but that irritation is ever so slight.
I like to use it as a tool to get into the deeper stuff that still does the damage - out of sight - out of awareness.


The damage is no longer current.  My expectations are gone.  But man oh man the detrius left behind.


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So, you are and will be doing things to reject that inheritance.
You have the knowledge to stop the cycle. That's what you're doing.
And you can become a healthy person.

Thank you Hops - so encouraging.
thank you too, you and PR and all who take the time to comment for allowing me to pour my work out here.
It must be boring to see such detail poured out on these pages but boy does it help me to work it all out.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Another layer of the onion
« Reply #149 on: May 02, 2010, 09:48:46 AM »
Keep the "boring" detail coming GS!!!!

It is part of your story - and so, a part of YOU. It is also the absolutely real content and experience of walking in your shoes, along your path, on your journey. Those details contain the "gems" or "keys" to finally working free from what binds you. As you work free, the story - and details - begin to take on other values and different places on the scale of importance to you. Just like a good thriller, there are twists & turns, what seemed "bad" is now "good" and vice versa... and in the denouement, Alice's rabbit hole will be turned "right" side out again and other more pleasant revelations will be in store for you.

I'm glad to say, that for the most part, I'm seeing a whole lot of "happy endings" to the "stories of us" who've wandered in here, in "crisis mode".
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.