Feeling "lured" into N mom's facade :Need some objectivity

[nolongeraslave]

My mom sounded really sweet on the phone and offered to give me some extra money.  I got nervous and said "Are you going to use this against me?" She said "No honey, I'm your mom. You always can talk to me. Your problem is you run away. We're family."  Then, I got off the phone "feeling fuzzy" and thinking "Oh, she's being nice and I'm getting some extra money!" I felt like a little girl just wanting some love..that kind of mood often warrants the wrong attention.

Of course, she did throw in the "Work on your figure (meaning lose weight). Stop taking anti-depressants. I would be happy if you were normal. You just don't know much about men"...stuff like that coated in a sugary sweet voice.


BUT, I feel like she's being really sweet to lure information about me.  I'm working like hell to keep my life separate from her.

I need the money, so a part of me is thinking "this isn't that bad." Can someone look at this objectively? I also feel guilty for talking about her behind her back...just b/c she offered to give me financial help.

Ah, nolongeraslave..you are not a commodity to be bought! Just b/c someone gives you money doesn't mean you owe them your sense of dignity and self.

[nolongeraslave]

HAHA..it was a joke. Her niceness didn't last that long. She just called me stupid on the phone and magically transformed into "her mean" voice. She threw some guilt there. Whatever. She was guilting me about some financial stuff, BUT everytime I say "Okay, then let me pay for it!"-She gets mad and says "Don't be stupid. Let me help you!"

 Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Sealynx]

I don't see them as mean or nice. I think we form those presumptions when they meet or fail to meet our current expectations. They are very much like cats toying with a dying lizard. The cat is not being cruel, its just being a cat. Like the cat, they toy with people because because they lack the ability to feel compassion or empathy which you need to feel both love, hate and everything in between. If you can't feel what the person is feeling, you don't know when to stop or back off of a topic.

I think they spend most of their time dodging spoken as well as unspoken requests for emotional reaction. They have no idea what "act" to put on, so they revert to meaningless often used statements like commenting on your weight or some other old dialog that will illicit a familiar response and put them back in charge of the conversation.

My mother sends me money every holiday. She says "I love you" when she calls but never really wants to hear what's going on to me. She insists on "kissing me goodnight" when I visit. She does these things regardless of my mood or what I am doing at the moment. Its robotic.

[Hopalong]

Take the money.

Then don't answer the phone.

Paint.

Hops

[swimmer]

Take the money if you like, but don't pay for it by sacrificing yourself. 

My mother did this all the time with money......I just can't say thank you anymore, it's too confusing... So I don't cash checks anymore (they actually stopped coming).  I know the pull though, I could use the money.  I exercise the freedom in not buying things, and doing with what we have....  Something my mother never does, so it feels good. 

You deserve money without the reverie of bs:). So if you take the money, you owe her nothing..... That is a gift you deserve.

[nolongeraslave]

That's a good way to put it. I just sometimes forget b/c "giving money" was seen as being used to gratify my parents' dysfunctional needs.

I'm having PTSD-like symptoms today, after talking with her. I go automatically numb, but then all of the unprocessed emotions come out the next day.  Just a little venting.

My therapist told me to try to tell "Let's not talk about men and dating", but I ended up anyway. I was trying to explain to her why I would prefer Indian guys raised in the states. Naturally, my experiences with men directy from India slipped out.   She's desperately trying to pressure me to date a guy from India that she wants, but I know him and I aren't a good fit.  She said, "You just don't know how to answer questions properly when guys try to test you."  Bitch, please. I'm getting second and third dates. If I didn't know how to act on dates, I wouldn't be getting asked out again.  She's very bizarre. A few years ago, she hated the thought of my brother and I getting someone from India. Now, she's trying to make Indian guys raised here look "bad." I think she just wants to get me to do what SHE WANTS. She can't stand it that I'm making my own decisions. For godsakes, she can't even make HER OWN DECISIONS. Maybe she's jealous that I have the ability to think things through.  My friend said, "Your mom just wants you to be in a miserable relationship, like her."

I told her one of the guys that I'm talking to is in Spain for a few weeks with his friends. She jumps in saying "He probably has another girlfriend. He should call you if he's out in Spain. Maybe he doesn't like you."   She has a history of accusing ALL of my exes cheating on me.

I know this is BULLSHIT.   Everybody has the right to live a life, go on vacation and relax. Who the hell am I to accuse this guy of having a girlfriend or not liking me? When I'm busy at work, would I like it if someone said "You must be having a boyfriend?" NO!  She's the type of person that would pressure me to keep calling a guy to see if "he's interested".  All what this does is come off as needy , demanding and scare someone off. I want to respect a person's privacy and time. They can call me when they want to. I can't pressure them by blowing up their cell phone all day.  Someone like my mom will keep calling you until you answer, and then she will accuse you of doing something bad or trying to ignore her.

What pisses me off is that she KEEPS asking "Is he interested? Is he interested?"  I told her, "Why don't you ask him?" I sure as HELL am NOT going to lower myself by asking "Do you like me?"   She guilts me by saying, "You should know."  Yeah mom..I'm going to take my sweet time.  How fucking hard is that to comprehend?

I just want that woman to talk to a bunch of dating experts, and have them tell her that  she's coming off as a desperate idiot. No wonder she stays married to my step-dad, because I'm sure she will drive any other man insane.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I wish I had time to read this whole thread, but I don't so I'll throw this in and then cut out ...

Double-edged messages like "Don't be depressed but don't take antidepressants," "lose weight but don't lose it any old way, lose it the way I tell you (even if it doesn't work for you)"... they are wrong and cruel and stupid. I hate them ... the messages that is. I have been given the damned if you do, damned if you don't messages all my life. It's enough to make you give up because you cannot win.

My mom rags on me about my weight but criticizes any new diet plan I try (I don't even tell her any more). She "worries' about my depression but "worries" about my taking antidepressants (I don't any more but not because of her stupid mixed messages). I am "too lenient" on my kids and "too strict."

There are some ways that I think being straight-up nasty all the time would be kinder than mixing your messages so that your poor offspring keeps up hope that they might, someday, be able to win.

[Ales2]

  you are not a commodity to be bought! Just b/c someone gives you money doesn't mean you owe them your sense of dignity and self.

In many ways, I traded my NMs control with money onto my employers when I started my first post-college job. It took me years to learn that I became dependent on them in a very unhealthy way (giving up my dignity and boundaries) and that is why I was continually underpaid, undervalued and living in fear of being fired and losing my job. Take note - your observation is a good one -  for a mother to put their kids in a position to be manipulated by someone with the purse strings is very abusive.... it wont matter down the road whether thats an employer, a loan company, or a spouse....

[nolongeraslave]

I wish I had time to read this whole thread, but I don't so I'll throw this in and then cut out ...

Double-edged messages like "Don't be depressed but don't take antidepressants," "lose weight but don't lose it any old way, lose it the way I tell you (even if it doesn't work for you)"... they are wrong and cruel and stupid. I hate them ... the messages that is. I have been given the damned if you do, damned if you don't messages all my life. It's enough to make you give up because you cannot win.

My mom rags on me about my weight but criticizes any new diet plan I try (I don't even tell her any more). She "worries' about my depression but "worries" about my taking antidepressants (I don't any more but not because of her stupid mixed messages). I am "too lenient" on my kids and "too strict."

There are some ways that I think being straight-up nasty all the time would be kinder than mixing your messages so that your poor offspring keeps up hope that they might, someday, be able to win.

The last sentence makes perfect sense, along with everything else.

As sick as this sounds, I kind of "miss" being in denial.l  It was easier in a way that you didn't have to deal with all of these thoughts and emotional reactions.  I just did what NM wanted without thinking anything.

[nolongeraslave]

I just spent the weekend with NM. What the hell was I thinking in the first post? She was horrible. I'm crying right now and can't wait to leave. She hasn't caused me to cry in a LONG time, but she snapped at me this morning.  When I said good morning to her, I could tell she hated my guts. 

From telling me that I was getting fat, getting mad at me for telling her that we can't talk about my weight anymore, to guilting me on how everyone thinks I'm weird, how I'm a bad daughter, how I don't spend enough time with her, and all of those other bizarre mind games that I don't want to talk about.

The good thing was I saw one of my good friends and went to see one of my favorite bands. My mom was PISSED that I did this, but I have the right to be happy and have fun.  She wanted me to stay by her side like a puppy, but it's hard to interact with her b/c of her behavior.

When I was about to leave for the concert, she rudely said "You're getting fat! Why are you wearing that yucky shirt?"  Then, she went on about how her comments are normal and how something is wrong with me for not being able to handle it.  My friend said, "She planned that fight with you, so she could make you late for the concert." True. 


Right now, she just guilted me not talking to my brother and sister-in-law. I TRIED opening up the conversation with my brother, but he doesn't respond! So, what do you want me to do?  While my brother is nicer than my NM (he doesn't try to control me), I did have some flashbacks of cruel things he did back in the day when I needed help the most.  Honestly, I don't know if I want to get too close to him.

 What NM doesn't realize is that she's responsible for playing siblings against each other. She will say "I wish you guys would talk," but then she talks shit about us to each other.  My mom used to hate my brother's guts and put him down to me (calling him selfish and cruel), but she suddenly loves him now.  I know she's talking a lot of shit about me to him, but I guess that's a price to pay for freedom from that hellhole.

She knows I avoid her, and she can improve this by changing her behavior. But, she won't.  If she won't change, I have to limit my contact with her. She's just too mentally and emotionally damaging. I've been having suicidal ideations (I won't act on them), because I think there's no point to life with her in it.  That would be letting her win though. 

I might even leave early and hang out at the airport for a few hours. I just don't want to stay in this house.

[swimmer]

Nolongeraslave,  I'm so sorry to hear about this.  I know how it is feeling trapped in an N household.

Sounds like you have a good idea to head for the airport.  Hang out in the terminal and fly standby on an earlier flight.  Only think about today and how you do not deserve such treatment.  Your feelings are real and important everyday. 

Do whatever you have to do, you don't even have to explain. If it is your wish, just walk away now....

(((((nolongeraslave)))))) 

[gratitude28]

I hope you did go to the airport early.
My NM couldn't wait to get away from me when they came to visit. My dad pretty much forces her to come see us, and I think she realizes she would look like the mean person she is if she refused. I see her hatred too when she looks at me.
Nolonger, you are a wonderful person. Just from reading your words here, I can tell you would be a great friend, fun to be with and kind.
I have had visits where I literally told NM that if she did not stop her abuse, I would pick up the phone, reschedule my flight and leave. I am done with her.
Cut her out of your life as much as you can. Love yourself, no matter what she says about your body. My guess is that you are very pretty and she just tries to find something she knows will bother you.
xo and I hope you are dancing around your house, glad to be home.
Love, Beth

[Hopalong]

NLAS, I think you are hypnotized. (I was too, for decades.)

No matter how toxic it is, no matter how much she undermines your confidence and toys with your fears, you keep calling her, talking to her, listening to her...because you believe you need the sound of her voice in your ear at regular intervals, in order to be okay.

Beliefs are just...beliefs. Not facts.

The fact is, you're a smart wonderful young woman who should separate from her mother.

You can always go back and visit, you can always schedule time with her from strength.

I know how difficult it is to go NC, even scary. But you must start going LOW-contact. You must begin to change the intervals and most especially, change the subject away from your personal life. This will become a practice. Literally changing the subject on her, "Oh well, let's skip that, what are you planning for dinner?" It's bumpy at first because the owNer-mother will want to keep talking about what SHE wants to talk about (which is your personal life, and which is destabilizing to you)...but if you just calmly keep changing the subject she eventually realizes she's encountered a new wall. Even my Nmother gave up, after so many years of controlling every conversation. And it didn't even take a "fight". I began to calmly and politely change the subject from her invasive stuff. Neutral topics only--education today, stories from the news, weather, cooking, new flowers. NOT: men, love, sex, marriage, etc etc. That was my PERSONAL business and not hers.

Dating or mating IS personal life. Culturally, it may feel appropriate and natural to discuss all this with your mother but that's completely arbitrary.

You have a right to not answer a question, to change the subject, to call less often, to return calls when YOU want to or not at all. And you have a right to NOT discuss your personal life.

I urge you to practice this, and do not be dismayed if it's awkward at first. You're taking back your life.
LOW contact, and under your terms. Don't let the phone become the trance tool that puts you right back into a state where you feel helpless to not hear her voice, letting her into your head in vulnerable areas.
CONTROL THE GATE.

love
Hops
PS--PS--I'm sounding really bossy today.
Very wired up re. deadlines and my D...so take me with a hug and shaker of salt!

[nolongeraslave]

Hopalong-I don't call her anymore. She's the one that calls me, and I just pick up when I want to.  I only went back to visit to see a favorite band of mine and to visit friends. I just stay at my parents' house, because they will get pissed if I stay at a hotel.  No worries about sounding bossy.

After I wrote that last post, my mom walked in on me crying while packing.

She asked why I hated her, and I told her the truth.

"You have narcissistic personality disorder. You need help. You lack compassion, you brainwash people, and you put me down all of the time. I don't want to be around this behavior. You need to learn how to have a normal conversation, without talking about their weight."

This pissed her off and she got my brother to come in to be on her side.  She started invalidating me by saying "I have so many friends! Everybody loves me! All of the other girls at my job have much worse controlling parents. You're lucky! Everyone thinks I'm the best mother!" At that point, I felt put on the spot and just didn't know how to explain the years of cruel behavior on her past.

My brother said he didn't care about my mom's comments on his weight, so my mom used that to guilt me.  My brother chimed in and said "Mom does everything for you guys." WHAT? My mom has done so many things that are psychologically neglectful and cruel.  I stood up for myself and said, "She only would cook for me, because she didn't want me to be independent. I WANTED to learn all of this basic stuff, but she would't show me."  My mom uses the "I cooked and cleaned for you, so I did everything for you!" excuse.  Growing up, I told her that I would do these things myself. She insisted that she would do it, because she had to have it HER way.

This argument is probably the red flag that I ned to start working on cutting financial ties with her. I'm trying to get the car in my name, but that's going to take a month. Nmom is going t o try to stop this, because money is her favorite thing to use against me. I'm not going to let her!

[Nonameanymore]

OMG it's like reading about my life a few years back.
I ll tell you this: I was raised with the belief (according to some law of attractions experts 'a belief is only a thought that I keep thinking') that I wasn't lovable, no man would be interested in me, if they did it would be to put their paws on her money and that men see other women on the side, they always cheat, and there was nothing nice in me to make a man NOT cheat. I was further sexually educated with her saying that 'when a man ejaculates, it's like he pissed you'.

As for the 'best mom in the world', yes, for a time, my friends did think so, because she would put on an act, being a completely 'modern' different person that she was when our front door was firmly shut.

I have told her recently (she tries to email twice a year, I fell in the trap and replied a couple of times) that she has NPD and have further placed an article on NMs on my website and when I blogged through myspace to promote my forthcoming memoir, she got in, and posted a humiliating false comment. Don't mean to offend you NLAS, but did you really think she would say 'Gee, yes, I have NPD, I take full responsibility for treating you the way I did all these years?' If you did, I don't blame you. I still think she will as well one day and keep hoping but know this day will never come.