Author Topic: Instinct and inspiration  (Read 3019 times)

Hopalong

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Instinct and inspiration
« on: April 18, 2010, 11:40:32 AM »
Seastorm's thread, and Mo2s mention of Gavin de Becker, and a couple recent shows I've watched (horrifying consequences when victims of Npaths aren't believed by others) add up to the starting point for this thread.

I'm a thinking that justice delayed is justice denied. Always worth pursuing still, if a legal or criminal consequence is possible. But there was another thing, on a CNN hero, that amazed me last night.

A woman who lived in a rural area and was abused by her father, raped and beaten, as were her siblings...grew up. She survived. She became a lawyer. What she does is go to rural areas to be an advocate, legal advocate, for victims of domestic violence. She travels down thousands of miles of roads where women and children are trapped without cars, money, or any resources for escape--and are being abused. She finds them in various ways but she doesn't abandon them until they're out and safe. She has literally helped over 10,000 rural poor women escape severe abuse. It was an astonishing story of victim turned hero.

And that got me thinking about de Becker's thesis. And how THAT could also raise the numbers of those who escape abuse before it begins. What if THAT were taught in every preschool? True, a child is trapped. But even if they were taught there is some way or will be very soon some way, for them to protect themselves? Surely, teaching this instinct stuff with great intensity would change some outcomes.

De Becker broke down and analysed every single step that led so many women to the final point of being murdered. (This can be extrapolated back to simply being in a destructive relationship that's harming you, even if there's no physical violence.) One woman, who'd been beaten with a baseball bat and left for dead upside down in a trash can with snow in it, inside a freezing storage unit, left there to finish dying while he dropped the kids at daycare and went back to work....somehow, she got a cell phone call to 911 and she played dead and was found in time. So De Becker told her, I analyse so many murders, but not often someone who has "been killed" (and survives).

What his studies show, and what the hundreds of stories of women who survive told him, is:

--you have an inner instinct ("This feels odd. I am uncomfortable with him. Why is he doing this? He wants me to go into his house. I don't really want to be here/alone with him/going there, etc. Something isn't feeling good about this...") WE ALL HAVE IT. And it's not a shout. But it is real. We all have it because we are animals. IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE RESPECTED AND ACTED ON.
--you are taught by this culture in a thousand ways to violate your own instinct. You THINK your way into ignoring your own whisper of warning. (OUR culture teaches us to become crazy. Like an antelope who hears a rustle in the brush and tells itself, I think I'll go closer to that sound and find out more about it. That does not happen. The antelope respects its instinct. The antelope doesn't tell itself, he's a poor misunderstood lion and I can be the one who shows him how to be nice to antelopes. Or, I'm really lonely and I'm the only antelope who isn't married. Maybe getting married to a lion is a good idea.)
--the way to become safe is to UN-teach the cultural/religious programming that girls and women are swarmed with. To be kind, find consensus, reasonable, cooperative, submissive, vulnerable in heeled shoes they can't run in, more focused on their sexuality power to attract than their instinctive power or intellectual power to build a safe and creative life, more concerned about what the neighbors or the town might think of "am I being a proper/sexy/"successful" female?" than almost anything else.
--you can UNlearn that denial and repression of your instincts.

My personal example is that when my 2nd husband, a pathological person (not violent but had the potential--shoved me hard once--and definitely a liar and manipulator and very unhealthy person who harmed me and my daughter emotionally very much, and whom I should never have married -- anyway, what happened (that fits some De Becker things) is:

--he wooed me like crazy, delightful, funny. But was in a HURRY to marry. Literally chased me around making me laugh even though deep inside, I was also feeling pressured, rushed, badgered. (I let my eagerness to be back in the culture's "safe place" for a woman, married, and my loneliness which I hadn't learned how to heal in a healthy way, overrule my instinct.)
--I still was trying to be intact, hear my own voice. I went to a marriage counselor on my own, we did a premarital test with him together. I liked the counselor, kept seeing him on my own, though we were very different. (He was a conservative Christian. I didn't care about that difference between us because I wasn't "superior", and he was a good human being and because of my own huge investment in TOLERANCE and LOVE whether I think like another or not). But I should have been intelligent enough to see that having this person helping me heal my own psyche was not a wise choice...because there are "RULES"--some but not all of them misunderstood ones--taken from the Bible that really, really harm women and girls. And ... everyone.
--I told the counselor in so many words one day: "J. is really really pressuring me to get married and I feel as though I need more time. My inner voice is telling me this is too fast. He is so delightful and I am sure I love him but this is just so fast and I don't know what to do about him pressuring me to set a date. What do you think I should do?"
--The counselor said, "Oh I think you should go ahead and set that date right now, get married. Then you'll get all this stress behind you." Fatally, I decided HE knew better than I did. I AGREED WITH HIM TO OVERRULE MY OWN INNER VOICE. And within a week, got engaged. We married a few months later.
--J. was abusive --verbally and emotionally, calling me his F**ing wife, roaring and yelling, on our wedding night. I spent the night sobbing in the bathroom. I have never since been so hurt. I'd never seen him drink more than one glass of anything, he'd had a lot of champagne, and it was, Hello, Mr. Hyde. I should have gone to the courthouse and gotten an anullment the next day. But I felt SHAME. And confusion. So instead, thinking it was all so spiritual of me, I recommitted with him in the woods the next day (he was also so contrite). I forgave everything, wanted to keep the vows I'd made because I made them in my CHURCH (get the connection?). Felt that love should fix everything and maybe he'd abused me because "he needed more love and had a stressful day"? Honeymoon was a nightmare of tension and feeling unsafe and unloved. I knew I was in deep trouble. But...I talked myself out of getting a annulment (I would feel SHAME because of the CHURCH and so many PEOPLE had come to the wedding). 7 years of hell. (I still didn't listen. I persuaded myself over and over that having made a promise in front of the culture, and in front of an altar, was more important than how I felt. What my inner voice was saying, iow.)
--After the honeymoon I went back to the counselor and told him what had happened. I was angry. Why had he pushed me to marry? Why had he advised me so forcefully when I'd told him what my inner voice was saying? Why had he done that? He told me the truth: his unmarried sister was kind of promiscuous and in some ways, I reminded him of her. Because of his beliefs, he was really uneasy with me being unmarried.
--Later he sent me a bill. I wrote him that not only did I not owe him a red cent but he was lucky I wasn't going to sue.

And I'm okay now. But all of these things just came together in my head this morning and I really really wanted to start a thread that is about this INSTINCT. The self-protective instinct we all do have that tells us right off the bat whether this person is a predator or unwholesome or unsafe person. WE all know it because we are animals and we have animal selves and we need to respect ourselves more than we respect the culture, the TV, fashion, pressure to be "sweet and understanding", or pressure to feel powerful only when we're beautiful and sexually attractive.

I'm still a compassionate person. (Even for abusive people, at a safe boundary). I'm still affectionate. I do a lot of loving in my life.

But I'm less "sweet". Less compliant. And I wish I had respected, and been taught to respect, my own inner voice a hell of a lot sooner in life.

Anybody want to talk about that gift, that instinct? Hindsight...the signs are always always there. We ARE smart enough (cancel that, "smart" gets us in trouble, I mean instinctive enough) to have safer healthier lives, and to teach our children, boys and girls, to have that greater safety too.

Sometimes deconstructing is the only way to do it. Justice delayed. But to deconstruct a piece of your past back to the point that you remember your first whispering instinct (and don't punish yourself for not having respected it, you did as you were programmed and it's nothing to be ashamed of)...but to deconstruct to that moment in a relationship where you REMEMBER your instinct, that whisper...

It's empowering. Or it is for me. That's the excavation that takes me back to before I was harmed. And she, listening, alert, quick and nimble and able to make a rapid lifesaving course correction...she is still there, in me. With all of the grief and regrets, after a long time, I find it something to celebrate. That's why I believe inside every single one of us no matter how hurt, confused, damaged, struggling, recovering, is that wholly alive and beautiful and wise and instinctive animal. We have her too. We all do.

She is in every one of us. I'd love to hear stories about her. And tell them to children, for future generations' sake. (Instead of stuffing their heads with gore stories, letting the media culture groom them...for more of the same.)

love,
Hops
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 11:52:21 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

nolongeraslave

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 11:59:48 AM »
Hopalong, that was a great story! I can't believe that counselor said, "you reminded me of my sister."  Good for you on getting out.

I feel as if my instinct is going to be on an on-going battle with the lovely NM. She knows (unconsciously or conscioiusly) that I'm learning how to trust my inner voice, and she's doing everything she can to trample on it.

It's easy to say "Don't listen to her," but she's good at putting you in a "crazy-making state." A "Huh? I'm confused?" mentality. 

Usually, when I calm down and recover from her, I'm able to rationally listen to what my inner voice is telling me.

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 12:15:34 PM »
Okay Hops, I'm going to make a cup of tea, after reading you. Focus focus. I don't have to remember my whispers. I have real, concrete, words said, to remember. Real memories. I know those memories back to front, ingrained, the brain filmed them. Hopefully the tea will disperse the adrenalin. To the other side, I have a tab open with skype ready to download. You know my problem? I trust it when it's done, I believe it when I can see/feel/experience it. I have been let down, not supported, left on my own, laughed at, treated as stupid or silly, played tricks on, lied to, bullied.................many times. My expectations are so damn low. I expect to be dumped.I expect to be taught another fucking lesson. All. The. Time. 'Dare to hope' came into my head yesterday.is it a book or something? You know what happens to me when I hope. So it's best to squash some of those magical thoughts. And it is magical thinking you know? People simpy do not behave like this. I am setting myself up for an almighty slap. Got that? Good. Time for tea. God I'm upset. Not at you. Jesus H. Adrenalin.

* simpLy. I have no idea what "people simpy" means. Sounds like some kind of taboo soup.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 12:29:48 PM by Portia »

Hopalong

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »
Yes, NLAS, I so have heard how you get hypnotized and confused when she is talking into your ear.

It would be so good for you to set protections in place BEFORE her voice begins in your ear, so you don't spend your life recovering yourself after damage. It would be such an empowering thing. A new practice, like those LC things I was talking about...

You really can do this. And in those times when you know you can't, you really have the choice to NOT do it.

You have the gate. You can begin now to control the gate to your own psyche. That's the thing to learn. All sorts of mechanical and meditative and behavioral ways...that are NEW in your rituals with her. You can begin to insert them, use them, experiment with them.

Be prepared for it to not work well. Give yourself permission to fail. That's what will let you try.
That's OKAY. ALL that matters is that you begin to make it different. Even in small secret ways like setting a timer.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 01:44:06 PM »
(((((((((Portia)))))))

(I'm posting this twice maybe but it seemed to vanish.)

Tell a story.
When and if you're ready.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2010, 03:05:30 PM »
Your story is very powerful, Hops. I know that instinct-voice you speak of. And yes, you're right - along with please and thank you - kids need to hear these stories. I do believe that the classic fairy tales convey many of the same messages as our stories. I have mourned the loss (through disneyfication) of those stories.

There's more I have to say, I think - maybe another angle too - but I have to go think about this a bit first.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 03:10:16 PM »
A story Hops. I feel I'm waiting and waiting and testing my thoughts all the time,and that is on the subject of 'goodness', not wickedness. The wickedness is plain and simple, sorted. The 'goodness', which is a team batting on my 'side' seems to exist, but maybe it's just in my head? How do you trust your hopeful expectations? Answer: you don't. You wait and go a bit crazy, cross-questioning yourself. I'm a finisher and I'm practising patience but I'm not sure if that is having an unstabling effect. I'm living in two worlds. There's a lot of information available which i don't have a clue about and it's just repeating FOO patterns: being excluded, being 'tricked' tested etc. And then I get real people acting a bit crazy/wary around me, and I think WTF. Am I scary? Give me a break. It pisses me off and makes me tired. But I know I have choices and a brain and I intend to use it when and if appropriate: for thinking. Is that the story you wanted Hops? Because you have to tell me what you want: I don't know unless you tell me. What I want is to move on from this ridiculous situation.How does that happen do you think?
* "ridiculous situation" ha! I can hear myself there and it is worthy of a wry grin, which is on my face now. True! <emoticon>
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 03:25:55 PM by Portia »

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2010, 03:14:58 PM »
Amber, I don't know about classic fairy tales. I heard/read enough. I think it's like Santa: fairytales can teach kids that the world is wicked and to expect and accept that and if your life doesn't include being roasted in an oven, maybe it's not so bad.

Hopalong

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2010, 03:34:38 PM »
Hey Portia,
I didn't have an agenda for what kind of story...just encouraging you to talk.

I know you feel circled, wary, on alert. Sounds PTSD-ish.

I don't know if you're talking about your bf, a circle of friends/acquaintances, family members. I don't know what behaviors of theirs --collectively or individually--are triggering the fear and desire for flight and finishing in you. I don't know if those feelings are self-protective or because after so much hurt, isolation begins to feel better than any human engagement.

I've experienced chapters of that too. Until I found a safe community.

I believe you, if I understood correctly, that the self-protective instinct can become dysfunctional to the point of paranoia and flight when there is no danger. It's actually reacting to the lion attack from 10 years ago, not the salamander at our feet now. Because of what happened earlier and the grooves it wore in the brain. (I remember a woman who practically wore boxing gloves, metaphorically. I realized from her early experiences she was like a returning Nam vet. Confusing a dropped tuna can with a shot.)

So I don't know exactly what is happening for you. I am sorry my post triggered trauma memories.

I do have a lot of faith that you will be able to sort it out. I didn't mean to sound as though cerebration isn't an inbuilt gift as well. It surely is.

I just was wanting to talk about the instinct itself, deconstruct how I learned to disregard it (but don't have to any more), celebrate my recognition that it was/is THERE, think about children learning that.

As life goes on, I hope to keep creating great health and peace in my life by balancing thinking and inner voice. That's the thing I am trying to learn. So I don't run myself into exhaustion (not being a very fit antelope), or turn into pudding and die early because the only aerobic activity is above my eyebrows.

love,
Hops
PS--won't be able to check in until late tonight or tomorrow but will be baaaaack...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 03:48:31 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2010, 06:00:49 PM »
Okay Hops, no worries. Finishing things is me, and I like it. Change is good stuff. Sometimes it's a long time a-comin, but hey, everything in it's own time. And I've had enough time. It's driving me bonkers, as you may feel. Have a good evening Hops 8)

nolongeraslave

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2010, 08:10:48 PM »
Hopalong,

I just went through a moment right now. My mom is trying to desperately convince me that a potential date doesn't like me.   Since I'm in Boston, NYC (where this guy lives) is only a few hours away and it's CHEAP. Who doesn't want to take a mini-vacation to NYC?   I went to see this guy, when in NYC. Big deal! She claims "He's not coming to visit you, so he doesn't like you. Don't you go to NYC all alone again!"A part of me wondered "What if she's right" and almost caused me to text him "Do you like me?" (Which probably wouldn't be helpful). My inner voice is telling me that she's full of shit. I know she's jealous that I had the opportunity go the big apple, and she's all alone in her miserable bubble! If he didn't like me, why would he waste the whole weekend showing me around the city?  Why would he text me, e-mail me, and talk to me on the phone?  Of course, he's willing to come to see me in Boston. BUT, I want to enjoy NYC as much as I can.  It's always relaxing for me to go out of town. It has nothing to do with how much interest this man has in me.

I told her, "Be patient. These things take time. "(she's expecting me to get married to someone that I just knew for only a few months!).  She just got angry and said "I'm your mom! Can't I ask you these questions?"   The minute she starts asking all of these crazy questions...It puts me in that insecure and crazy-making state.  She will try to warp and distort the reality of the situation.  She wants to ruin my sense of confidence in choosing mates, so she can choose someone for me. The untrained eye may say "She just wants what's best for you" The truth is that the person she will choose will be someone who meets her narcissistic needs, and won't be someone who treats me right.   Misery loves company. Since my mom had unhappy marriages, she's going to do whatever it takes to make mine just as miserable.


Back in the day, my mom wanted me to continue dating a guy that was pressuring me to get naked against my will and wouldn't respect my no. He was a doctor, so she thought me marrying a doctor would make her look good. She couldn't comprehend that this man wasn't respecting me. There's proof right there that she has terrible judgment when it comes to choosing partners.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 08:25:30 PM by nolongeraslave »

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 08:28:28 PM »
CB
just saw the bold in your post. Would you believe I bought that book for the womb donor. It's a larf innit. No! It isn't! Night xx

CB123

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2010, 11:54:52 PM »
Sorry Portia

I didnt get what you were saying...

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

sKePTiKal

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 08:11:39 AM »
Well - as for fairy tales - there are enough examples of the "victim" escaping, turning the tables, being helped or outwitting the evil perpetrator in the stories - sometimes only through their own inherent "goodness" - that I have to disagree with you Portia, that they teach acceptance of evil.

Hops - in your original story/post I see several important topics: gender stereotyping/roles, societal expectations, autonomy >< dependance or relationship, as well as that inner instinctual "guide". I heard your passion and intensity behind the telling of the story, too. I'm sort of in yoda mode right now... and off the cuff, I could respond in a lot of different directions with a lot of cliche type things. Useless crap, in other words.

Something stops me from doing that. I'm not sure what it is right now but I'm thinking you've hit a bullseye on something I'm resisting thinking about. Something I'd rather not delve into - because it will shatter some myth I hold about myself... or something. Hell, maybe I just have nothing to say on the topic, too!  :D

But, the temptation to think about this as I go about my day is still there... and it's deep thinking... and so, non-verbal & incoherent at the moment. This is BIG STUFF you've proposed discussing and it's given me pause.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Portia

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Re: Instinct and inspiration
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 11:27:16 AM »
Amber, please disagree...it's more helpful. I guess it's down to interp and perceptions. I didn't like the fairy tales where good won the day, because I knew that Life Isn't Lke That. I thought they were a con (as I thought an idea of an afterlife was a con): a con in terms of if you're good, things will get better. So that was my perception: fairy tales didn't help me.

Hops, thanks for your reply. PTSD is probably right, if I can remove the P and the D. Stress is not always bad; maybe repeated impatience stress is how I 'work'.

CB: I think it's ironic that I bought WWRWTW for my mother years ago. I didn't read it. Oh and larf = laugh, innit = isn't it. I lapsed severely into an accent there (I can do several!).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 07:45:48 PM by Portia »