Author Topic: Feral Children of Narcissists??  (Read 10072 times)

Sealynx

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2010, 06:34:27 PM »
Helen,
I do best when I enjoy the activity as well, in fact it much easier for me to make friends if we are involved in activities rather than just spending time together.

Hopalong

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2010, 09:39:44 PM »
Oh Portia would you PLEEEZ secretly in vapor form attend my staff meeting with me tomorrow?

Your observations would be worth their weight in philosophers' stones, seriously.

Sigh. Uggh.

Think of me at 9:00 am EST, as I'll be maintaining a pleasant demeanor amid the waves of ego and puffery.

Igggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2010, 08:30:28 AM »
LOL Portia!!!

It was when I was having those kinds of observations in the same kind of meetings, that I realized by going through the healing I've done (and yes, via therapy - more cognitive, though I talked a great deal!!)...

in reality, I had more "power" than the folks with the fancy title and big paycheck - they were so out of touch with reality - facts - and themselves (no self-awareness) - that all they believed they were "doing" amounted to some odd dance of self-delusion. They didn't even know they had a choice to be different!!!!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Portia

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2010, 02:08:33 PM »
Hops, only just checked in but hope you breezed the meeting? Bet you did!

Amber - the odd dance of self-delusion, yes, that sounds bout right. thank you. And yes, no concept of my being very reasonable in the 'compromise' I'm suggesting, oh no. No concept of being different, stepping out of the role of all-powerful piece of **** vs. silly little woman. People. Mmmm yes. I used to this but differently. Now I know that I have that choice, even in the midst of it, I can still muse...what if I just walk away right now? (no chance, but it is an option.) 8) Activity even like this has positive effects. Bonding with neighbor for example.

Meh

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2010, 11:19:28 PM »
SL: I'm thinking about the concept of mind/brain sculpting. The claim is that visualizing an event in the mind starts to makes new neural networks. It's like when sports players visualize success.

Could some new emotional success (or what would it be called) be visualized to change the way a person feels?


Portia

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2010, 09:21:37 AM »
...visualising emotional success changing feelings...yes i think so. Example: if I decide to look after my own feelings (thinks: doing that re: that person makes me feel bad) instead of doing the usual of thinking about their feelings, what I should do etc...if I think: if I don't do that (or if I do that) instead, I might not have those bad feelings, and if I act on that idea - the bad feelings lift and instead I can feel good about looking after myself.

So I imagined I might feel different, I acted, and did indeed feel different.

How simplistic was that example?

Feeling good can be a range of things from refusing to feel anxious about someone else's drama, to letting it go, to actively seeking to do those things which affirm your life and beliefs.

At this point i wonder who is writing this post. It doesn't sound like 'me', which is interesting.

Sealynx

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2010, 09:36:54 AM »
I am a big fan of the book, "The Brain that changes itself". This can be done but you have to jump through some hoops to get there. The biggest problem is that many of us don't know how certain states of being can feel. It is like the example I gave a while back about the child whose first day at the beach is made wonderful by supportive parents who only show her the fun that can be had VS. the parents who frighten the child with all that can go wrong from rip currents to sharks. Child number two cannot recapture what she never knew because her feelings are forever tainted. She could if she managed to force herself, lessen her fear by hanging with people who loved the water, but it would be unlikely that she would ever know certain levels of open water aquatic comfort.

The same can be said of our expectations of people. Yes, we can make some changes but because we have never known certain states of innocence with people, it would be hard to visualize them. I would think it would be easier to visualize yourself doing a move, like dunking a basketball, that can be watched practiced and copied, than it would be to visualize a feeling you never had in its untainted state.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 09:39:08 AM by Sealynx »

Portia

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2010, 09:48:10 AM »
Yes, I mean changing one feeling for another, but within my normal range. There are some feelings I just won't ever feel, I imagine. I know what those feelings are intellectually and I believe that people experience them. How does that make me feel. Envious, angry, depressed, sad, resigned.

Then I wonder just how many people live like that, for how long. is this imagined existence all that different from mine? Are there plusses and minuses on both 'sides'? That grey spectrum makes me feel very differently from the basic emotional responses.

Sealynx

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2010, 11:31:31 AM »
I would love to invent a machine that allowed us to try on someone's brain for a day...It would be cool to rent brains that already knew how to do many things, not just at the intellectual level but at the feeling level as well. For instance how much better to start a new business with a Donald Trump feeling about money! I think in the end it is all about energy and the quality that we manifest.

Portia

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2010, 12:21:09 PM »
I've seen and heard about newbiz start ups, met the folks. Some have no caution or idea of the pitfalls. Then they blame external factors when it fails. I'm very very cautious. Our Alan Sugar makes like a big Trump, but his money is from property investments, not from Apprentice-like start-ups. But who cares! Money consumes people. It's just a tool (mostly used badly). If it is all about energy and our quality, I'm probably living in the wrong century and civilisation...

Sealynx

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2010, 01:34:27 PM »
Somebody turned me on to the work of a designer who would like to do away with the whole monetary system and have everyone work for a uniform quality of life that was wonderful. Everyone would do what they were best at and could enjoy. Not likely that people would give up greed and selfishness for such a world but his ideas are cool.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/youtube-video

English

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2010, 05:29:41 AM »
I would love to invent a machine that allowed us to try on someone's brain for a day...It would be cool to rent brains that already knew how to do many things, not just at the intellectual level but at the feeling level as well..

Ooo Sealynx I love that idea.  I would love to try different brains, especially at the feeling level.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2010, 08:20:31 AM »
Hi Sea...

I remember your Beach metaphor... it's similar to a homework exercise I had in therapy - to draw pictures of different feelings. I had a full page of logo-type symbols on the "bad" feeling side and only a few on the "good" side - and it didn't even occur to me to try to draw "happy". That's been a long time ago now.

And it just came up the other day, for me, with my brother - a business event was very successfully completed yet he wasn't happy about it, at all. And I had one of those split-second realizations about how different our realities are - yet I USED to be in his reality, all the time. I used to not be able to describe "happy"; didn't know how that feeling actually FELT; didn't believe it EXISTED.

Didn't this thread start out wondering about what it felt like to be excited, looking forward to an event? Versus anxiety, dreading, or just indifference? Aren't they just flip sides (yin/yang) of the same experience? If A exists, then B does too. The yin/yang symbol isn't an either/or, B or W, symbol - it's an "AND" - and the teeny, tiny place in the tails is where negative turns positive in processes and vice versa - yet there always exists the black circle in the white, etc. A&B co-exist continually. If it exists, you can find it; experience it; feel it.

I'm not sure at all about the criteria of a process - the how-to - but I am sure that it is possible to learn new feelings for most people, even if you can't recall feeling that feeling before... like in your beach example. Helen's idea has merit; some people might actually be able to build a completely visualized experience in their imagination, right down to sensory & emotional input... and so be able imagine a new experience and new feelings. But another way would be to go exploring out into the world - a voyage for new experiences, new ways of being - a voyage of discovery... and being open to what comes without superimposing our old experience of "this is what I always feel in THAT situation"... and maybe, when fear is involved, it requires having a trusted "buddy" or "wingman" to go along and back you up... until the fear dissapates and confidence replaces it.

There must be other ways of "how-to", too. I can't really say how I moved from A to B; what I did. I can't pinpoint exactly what changed... or how... or why... if it was something that just magically "happened"... or if I was working on bits & pieces of it all at once and was too zoomed in on those details to notice that change had occurred. All I'm sure of is that it DID happen and I didn't realize it until after the fact. The sunshine is brighter, the rain is fun to play in, gray days are cozier with a book & a cup o' tea and even feelings and boundaries are clearer than they've ever been, as far back as I can remember clearly. (I can almost see them like a matrix or ley lines sometimes)

If you want to badly enough, I'm sure you'll find your own way to this SL - or if not, you'll at least make peace with it.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Sealynx

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2010, 07:09:10 PM »
Hi Pr,
I'm really not unhappy but most enjoy doing things that make me feel good physically like going out in my Kayak. I think it has been an interesting topic and hopefully will help some people to look at their issues in different ways. BTW, I love the Lev Grossmen book you recommended. I'm moving slowly through it so I can visualize each page!! Great fun!!.
Sea

sKePTiKal

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Re: Feral Children of Narcissists??
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2010, 08:47:16 AM »
OK Sea, thanks for clarifying! I'm starting to get my own "stuff" muddled into the general discussion, I think. Glad you like the book! There are some delightful visuals that pop up throughout... and some interesting ideas re: groups of people vs individuals... "realities"... needs/wants... and what makes us "us"...

along the subject line of this whole thread, and the book, I wonder if what feral children miss the most is "PLAY"... especially in groups... groups of children talk & compare everything with each other (don't keep "secrets")... groups of children are exposed to other parents (who could pick up on those secrets)... groups of children live in other "realities", with other rules, with other permissions... that could threaten the authority of the reigning N-monarch...

... and perhaps, this play activity is where our inner barometers are set for life (until intentionally changed) about whether we look forward to mixing with groups of people, sharing activities with groups, are seeking out more relationships (or are indifferent...). I don't have any conclusions about this; just pondering... letting the ideas germinate... observing what goes on around me and in myself...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.