Perfection

[OnlyMe]

Seeker- We all got it, you know that we do, please don’t change a thing about yourself , your posts;

Coudn't have said it better myself.
I rant, you rant, we all rant!!! and it's a good thing!  This is one place where we can be ourselves, and what could be better than that?

[Anonymous]

Okay, I give up. If hyperbole and exaggeration is what you were doing, I didn't get it. So my bad. But this place is a hotbed of echo chamber thinking. I don't feel like you "got" what I was saying either and only Les seemed to get an idea. So go ahead and bash me for not echoing well enough.

[Anonymous]

Gee whiz, guys, isn't this thread all about perfectionism and what a lot of us had and still have to put up with in our family of origin, or in some relationships?  I understand that my nmom surrounds herself with like people and when I go to certain functions with her, I find myself in a group of people who feel the need to "act" like they are perfect or better than other people.  Isn't that kind of the definition of N?  To have a bigger ego than necessary and to make other people feel lower than they are to make themselves feel good about themselves?????  And isn't it true that an overinflated ego is very apparent?  Especially if you have been victimized by a nparent all your life?  Don't you think that a child that has grown up with all that stuff is VERY aware of it??

So semantics aside...................................whoever and whatever these people are and whatever labels you want to put on them.............sometimes you can find yourself in a group of people where you do NOT feel welcome................Some may be Ns and others might just be A**holes!!

Kelly

[Anonymous]

Okay, I give up. If hyperbole and exaggeration is what you were doing, I didn't get it.

 That isn't what I was doing.  You still don't get it.

So my bad.

What is this?

But this place is a hotbed of echo chamber thinking.

What does this mean?  You mean other people saying the same thing?  If so, I find this hotbed helpful because people confirm they understand what the other poster is saying.  Which is precisely what you and I are struggling with right now.  Which is precisely what we all didn't get growing up with Ns of every stripe.  Some of us are trying to heal as well as "understand".  Sorry if my emotional post was confusing to the definition of narcissism.  My bad.

I don't feel like you "got" what I was saying either

I did but it isn't what I needed at the time.  And this story was about me, remember?  

and only Les seemed to get an idea.

Let's give her a sticker.  No offense, Les.  

So go ahead and bash me for not echoing well enough.

I will. My feelings are still raw and you repeatedly asked for "clarification".  Then criticized my characterization of my predicament.  I do feel traumatised by this.  You even stated that my post was not a "real" N problem!!!  I do bash you for your insensitivity.  Jesus, this is the unholy definition of discounting someone else's problems!  But of course you don't see that.  But you do have the benefit of becoming the center of this thread now.

Now instead of raging away about a room full of snobs, you have become the target of my anger.  If you know so much about NF personality types, you would know how sensitive I am and how much it took for me to open up about my very own feelings.  I usually listen and encourage others.  So once I open up about a very specific event, exposing myself and you stomp all over it, and intellectualize it.  

I am angry (that's an emotion, to clarify) to the point of tears.  Tears because the other posters understand so well and tears because you don't.  This is becoming a whole demonstration of my family dynamic.  Now you all know so much more about me.  
+++
Flowers 12.  I hope my outburst hasn't scared you off.  
Kelly: Your post made me smile!  So right on.  I get so sick of the hairsplitting and you hit a home run.  I feel understood.
Bunny, Phoenix, OnlyMe, Les, and DG.  Thank you so much for answering the call and being here.  More hugs, Seeker

[gardener]

Guest said:
Okay, I give up. If hyperbole and exaggeration is what you were doing, I didn't get it. So my bad. But this place is a hotbed of echo chamber thinking. I don't feel like you "got" what I was saying either and only Les seemed to get an idea. So go ahead and bash me for not echoing well enough.

I don't hear an echo-chamber, I hear something called validation...

When everything you say has been hitting a brick wall all your life, or put through the mincer... It must come as a relief to be really heard
 
It's hard to describe this to someone who has never been told that their feelings and thoughts are always wrong.
To be told this from childhood must be numbing. To be able to speak your truth and be heard must be like coming home in some ways, to a home you have never had.
Nobody is bashing, this can just be an emotional place.
Love to you all.  Finding my voice too

[gardener]

Maybe this could help someone here, I found it interesting....


http://eqi.org/invalid.htm#Examples%20of%20invalidating%20expressions.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Gardener,

This is a great link.  I read the whole thing and it really eased my frustration (along with the notes from friends here).  I felt like I was screaming inside my head.  

How ironic that the book recommended above is "Please Understand Me", not "Please Understand Them".  

Validation.  That is the antidote.  Thank you for this.  Seeker

[ResilientLady]

Hi Gardener, congratulations for having let us know about this so good site!!  
I have not read everything within it (yet   ) but the the few pages I have read were really great    !!!
A big thank you    from Resilient Lady

[Anonymous]

That is a great site, gardener!

Seeker - You didn't do anything wrong. Have a great day and don't let anything spoil it.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bunny,

Your support means a lot to me.

   Seeker

[Anonymous]

Guest go round. Put your name on your own words before you criticize another's.

Guest, take not notice. It was easy for a-non-defensive type to read and understand you meant no harm. You can be guest, nobody here can or should order you to do anything.

  It's just another typical Discounted-Girl order!  

Disco Guy

[Portia]

There is one thing that’s been nagging away about Guest in this thread and it’s this:

We do explore the full spectrum here, but calling people Ns instead of saying the atmosphere was narcissistic has a whole different meaning. It may be confusing for people.

Guest, I could see your point, although I don’t know why you made it here. Why not start another thread and thereby not criticise seeker? Can you see why seeker got angry? Why just start up this topic in the middle of a thread? I don’t get it. I’m willing to listen though – maybe on another thread! Do you see my point? If you want to say something about how people who come here talk about Ns and N-ism here, why not start a thread? You seem interested in it. Why not invite a conversation? I'll join in.

It’s the last part of the quote above that niggles me: “It may be confusing for people.”

What people? Sorry Guest (here comes a criticism) but this statement hints of a superior ‘I know what’s best for other people’ attitude, to me. Dangerous stuff. The sort of attitude that can come from highly responsible introverts – those introverts who want to be responsible for everything so that they don’t have to admit the everyday chaos around them. Impose order and objectives. Dictatorial stuff if taken to extreme.

Every action has good and bad consequences. Including this one.

Guest, I’m pointing this out to you for your own good ha ha ha! Hope you enjoy the ironic humour there. Can you share a joke Guest? I can laugh at my own ‘dictatorial’ leanings. Sometimes, when it’s not a matter of national or universal importance. That’s a joke!

Course, what I’m really posting for is to deflect from Discounted Girl. But then no-one here can be ordered to do anything. There’s no carrot or stick. So any ‘orders’ are just words and Guests will post as Guests as they choose to. Fair enough. And DG doesn’t need me to deflect do you DG? So I might annoy you DG by saying that!

And Disco-Guy, well, I dunno. Obviously Guest will post if they want to, they’re not going to rely on you to say it’s okay are they? Or maybe they will. I don’t know. But heck, what a whack to DG! What was that for? Have you, Disco Guy got some personal animosity towards DG? It sure sounds like it! I wonder why?

And what consequences will my post have? Getting involved in other peoples’ stuff for no reason other than…..than what?

….than I think that last post is pretty dumb. It’s the laughing emoticon that gets to me. Laughing with someone is great, laughing at them in a taunting way is soooo childish. Someone ‘wants a fight’ and heck, why for goodness sake? Why not just leave it as some support for Guest and keep it helpful? Instead of deliberately baiting DG and intending to hurt. I don’t get it. I don’t get why DG is getting a taunt like that.

Hey Gardner, I read all your link, good stuff – thank you, and nice to see you again.  P

I just read this thread again and now I've got more thoughts. I don't know if original Guest to seeker meant it as 'bait'. I don't think Guest saw that it might be taken as bait. And I get the intellectual reasoning vs. the feeling. Tricky stuff. Original Guest: you remind me of me trying to get through to my parents and being called 'evil' because I would question everything with logic (before being shouted down or just ignored). I can see what you wanted to do earlier, but choosing to do it with another person's experience - you're going to get slammed. It's heartless.

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia & all,

Just wanted to check in here and let everyone know I've calmed down considerably.  I understand why the outbreak of weirdness on this thread occurred and I was pretty blinded by emotion.  One of Guest's posts triggered something in me, unbeknownst to Guest.  I can now see Guest was not trying to set me off.  Gardener's link helped me to see why I was.  

Big handshake and hug to Guest.     I think we both learned something.  Perhaps it was because Guest was in Thinking mode and I was definitely in Feeling mode, for sure, that things went sideways.  My apologies to Guest for taking the brunt of it.  

This isn't a feud, just a misunderstanding which I consider resolved and have moved on.  I think perhaps Guest has too (I mean to other topics, not other boards, I hope).  

Group hug!  Thank you all again for picking me up off the floor.  
Love, Seeker

[Portia]

Hey (((seeker))). Very glad you feel like you do!  I'm just waiting for DGirl to come and whump my ass  (is that expression right?) for intruding here. And seeker, it was okay to read you 'giving it some', standing up for your stuff. Why not? It's okay. It's okay to get angry. Yeah! You said your truth. What more could anyone ask for?

I thought it was all pretty healthy until I saw that laughing emoticon today. Now that got to me. Because there was nothing to laugh about in that post. Some sort of sick humour. Hmm. Ah well.   P

[les]

Ah ((Seeker)).  

Well I know this isn't about me (new book -Why is nothing about me!) lol
but I certainly learned something, well many things in this thread, so maybe (oh for heavens sake stop babbling and just say it) I'll just jump in again. When they were young my daughters were quite fractious, often fighting with each other and my husband was very short tempered in these child- raising years.  I was forever saying things like, "Oh I think what she really meant was"...."Now I don't think your father means it in that way"... ver very exhausting really. I can see above all else I wanted/want everyone to get along.  Fighting, just raised voices, has always triggered the pacifier in me. In addition to my parents being N's they were both alcoholics so the fights were ugly and now with no need to fight  there is still a combative aura to everything my mother says and does.

So, I am so full of admiration for people who aren't afraid to say what they think and feel. Take a stand.  I want to do more of it.  But I also want everything and everybody to be safe.  Can't always have both I guess. How to reconcile these 2 needs?  I think I've just discovered why my children were so frustrated with their Polyanna mother.

Anyway, I'm loving the peace that has been restored.  

Les