The "Mama Never Told Me" Thread

[Meh]

Really?

Everybody just works these things out according to their schedule and their needs. Blood sugar, metabolism, sleep cycles...and whatcha want to do before you croak.

I think some of us get going before our brains kick in because we must.

What do you want to do with your retirement time?

[Hopalong]

I think that would be too painful to analyse at the moment , for me...
retirement looks to be at least 14 years away and I'm so tired.

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I don't know Star.

I have run a lot of possibilities through my head - I could get up, have my coffee, exercise for 3 hours if I wanted to. I could eat a yogurt and go walk 3 miles. I could join a gym. I could start working on all the things on that eternal to-do list, that just get more stuff added on it. I CAN do anything I WANT to do... except... my mindset and how I feel every morning, is that I can't.

So I don't. I come here and try to be useful, or funny or connect with people instead. Hubs doesn't mess with my "morning time"; he got used to that when I was journaling during therapy.

I don't even know for sure what it is my body needs in the way of morning routine. A pot of coffee and free rein on cigarettes while doing nothing except letting my mind wander... heap on tasks on the to-do list... keeps pushing me back to trying to figure out "what's wrong with me"... and trying to fix that.

I don't choose when I'm faced with all those options. I don't crave anything in particular to eat in the morning; I am not hungry until noon or 1 - I haven't eaten breakfast since I was 12. But this is a must, according to diet experts if I want to lose 20 lbs. And I need to lose the weight and get my body moving again... all this sitting around with hubs -- my body is complaining like crazy! It just doesn't feel good. Hubs is another thing - but when I'm ready to get that bit out of my head - I'll put it over on the relationship thread.

[teartracks]

Hi PR,

I so relate to the morning 'thing'.  I posted six months or so ago about my mornings, half asleep (and I really can't figure out which part, mind or body, is partially awake), and wasted.  But the part of your post that got my attention is that you are not hungry when you wake up.  I'm not either.  I get hungry about 3 p.m., and even then it's not hunger that makes me eat, it's just that I run out of juice, become lightheaded and weird.  Years ago, I started to eat a very small breakfast, maybe 3 crackers with cheese melted over them with 1 sweet cup of coffee.  At some point, I understood the ritual was the attractive part of it.  It isn't as if nibbling cheesed up water crackers and sweet coffee could be called breakfast.  So that's how I consciously got introduced to personal rituals and how important and enjoyable they can be a person's day.  My sleep has improved tremendously with medication (very low dose of Wellbutrin combined with Lyrica of all things), but still morning for me is not 7:30 a.m., it's whenever I get up.  Sometimes my morning starts at 12 noon.  Whatever time it is, early or late, I start my day with that tiny bit of food and 1 cup of coffee.  I used to journal  a lot during that time.  My new life being married, living in a different house with a man who hits the floor running and talking put a monkey wrench in the journalizing.  I'm still trying to find that special, quiet spot that will inspire more journaling and meditation.  DH has gotten used to and doesn't complain about the hours I sleep or that I'm out of it when I get up.  Anyway, all this to ask, have you any enjoyable rituals?  I like mine.

tt

PS exercise (it has only been two weeks),  has made a tremendous difference in how I feel and move.
A diet for me is not to bring carbs and sugar into the house.  If I don't see 'em, I don't eat 'em! actually, my preference  red meat and lots of green veggies.  I think that's one good thing (well, I think it's good) I brought from the farm. dietitians wouldn't agree with the red meat thing.

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks so much, tt - "personal rituals" is a better way for me to think about things like this than trying to suss out something that fits me, from the plethora of recommendations and advice out there. And it has an aura of self-caring about it that I need, versus the "its for your own good" aura of no-excuses, no-exceptions, "you'll do this because I said so" regimen. I'm thinking about journalling again, too. Whether it's the bug that laid me low, or the current hubs confusion-consternation, or SAD or whatever... I'm "going through" something I don't quite understand... and it isn't easy to pin down, either. I'd register pretty high on a scale of depression, I guess. But it's temporary.

Re: chicken vs red meat - I eat way more red meat (lean) than chicken because chicken gives me such intestinal distress. And with all the back/forth on what foods are good to eat or not... I figure it won't be long before chicken goes on the bad list. A diet to me, is lots of whole grain & veggies... even meatless meals. Not ready to tackle that yet with my meat & potatos & two sides & dessert hubs... he SAYS he will eat more variety and veggies... until I serve it, that is. Maybe I'll pull out my Alice Waters cookbook to read; I'm a big fan of simple, fresh food and not cooking the "good" out of it.


(((((((((HOPSY))))))))))

I understand, really I do. That's why I leaped at what seemed a 1x opportunity. It's more challenging that I anticipated... re-inventing myself and what my life is and consists of... after 50. It's the quieter times that are the hardest.

Star... I need to explain better; lately I haven't been making sense to myself so it's no wonder I'm not communicating what I want to say. The habits I have... are the ones that were imposed on me - by obligations of school/work, back through to the original dealing with, reacting to, & surviving my FOO. Those habits - like breakfast and morning routine - are SO entrenched in that emotional cesspool that every foray I've made to try something different, has failed... to the point where I regularly just say F it... and don't even think about trying or wanting to change anything. And the cycle just rolls around.... I want to change things now, again.

There is some "flushing" happening with ole emotional cesspool lately... along with some rather volatile & ouchy over-sensitivity to things in the here & now... and some new ideas I've been digesting... and some "seeing my way clear" to proceed. So, where I am now... I'm seeing those "Mama never told me" things more clearly. Morning routines, in particular are something I never had a chance to design for myself... because back then, I was "doing" for everyone else, holding down responsibilities for my bro & at school... and any "need" I had - well, it had to wait or didn't exist. There was never coffee in our house, after my Dad was gone - so I smoked instead for the instant, brain-waking rush of nicotine. I needed the rush - because like tt, it took me forever to wake up. Only in my case: I didn't sleep well because of anxiety & hypervigilance & nightmares. I don't have many sleep issues anymore... so why do I need stimulants (in mass quantities) to wake up?

I'm not up to the list-item, where I decide "what I'm gonna do in retirement" yet. Part of me says I'd better have fun & learn to play while I can... another part of me, wants to throw myself into the maw of being of use, practical use to others; some sort of hands-on personal service... and there is one part of me, that would like to try on H.L. Mencken's shoes... be a published curmudgeon... and tell everyone a.) what I think is wrong and b.) how to fix it without being politically correct, mind you. LOL... like THAT'LL happen...

[teartracks]

My perfect morning ritual would look like this:  Two hours.  Weather like Hawaii, a porch swing looking out over a lovely garden, a gentle breeze (I guess that comes with Hawaii like weather?)  Maybe a footstool.  A decent side table or chest to store my writing stuff in.  My Bible or favorite devotional book.  Perfect quiet.  No phone calls.  No appointments.  No talk.  Lots of meditation.  Dashing off a personal note to my family and friends.  Ahhhhh

tt

[sKePTiKal]

That's really good for a while, tt. "A while" being however long one continues to enjoy it and it serves one's goals. My "while" has been about 30 months, give or take the additional few years I actively journalled every day to unravel the knotted ball of my story and suppressed emotional reactions to events in the story... and figure out what "letting go" and "moving on" was; for me personally.

I didn't know how long my while was gonna be, when I gave my Self permission to do this. I purposely didn't look at any "shoulds" or guidelines or advice because I wanted what I wanted and the first time in my life, I could actually let myself have what I wanted.

And now, that I'm feeling restless again... instead of replacing that with some external obligation... I'm trying to design a "personal ritual" for myself that's more intentional - and incorporates some of those goals that have had to wait patiently on the back burner while whatever process or goal was served by that long "down time" finished up... maybe it never completely finishes up, ya know? But it's far enough along now, that I don't think I'll overtax or overwhelm that fragile, vulnerable bit of myself by adding in these other things. And I know better now, than to instantly decree milestones, instant changes, and superimpose the goal I have in mind... for the expectations I have for myself... right from the beginning.

And my original question comes from my ignorance of what other people do, like to do, or ask of themselves in these kinds of rituals. I need plain old info... the raw materials from which to create something.

[teartracks]

PR,

I think being mindful of what is soothing, replenishing, restoring, uplifting, and permissible (self has said, yeah, that's a good idea, you have my permission), is what sets ritual apart from other elements of our routines like consciously being aware of what translates as work, social interaction, what is 'have to, because it's the right thing', and what makes us feel drained rather than energized.  In other words, being conscious of what is routine and what is personal ritual(s) where we own it (the desirable rituals) and we identify all the elements of our day and how each makes us feel while doing them.  If we have rituals that serve no purpose, then toss them.  If we're spinning our wheels getting the necessary work related things done, then tweak the method or adopt another method.  Make it a challenge. 

I'm not forgetting that you are married and that marriage is at the top of things to nurture and keep healthy.  It's just that for the latter to work best IMO, the others need to be nurtured, kept healthy and implemented without guilt.
That way, the marriage can be bathed with contentment. 

Trying not to talk out of both sides of my mouth here  .  It's all a challenge - I know...

tt

[Meh]

"Mama never told me" could be "Mama never showed me"

Mama never told/showed me that I was somebody. I could have been a lamp perched on a table.
Mama never told/showed me follow through, that is if she said something...she often didn't really mean or do what she said she would do.
Mama did show me a lot of manipulation emotionally.
Mama never did tell me or show me how much serious work life really is AND that life is also supposed to be fun sometimes.
Mama did show me that I should be pleasant and "nice" for her and to her.
Mama never did show me that I should "build a life for myself".
Even at work I dedicated too much into the effort of the job not fully "getting" how it's not about the JOB, its about me.
Just not a solid firm sense of self.

Mama never showed me that I'm a part of "the family".
However, mama did show me what guilt and shame feel like.
Mama did demonstrate a lot of incompetence I don't know why. I struggled with riding a bike, driving a car was strange, she tried to teach me how to sew and gave me a broken sewing machine and then she got mad at me for complaining that she gave me something broken. Swimming-she just dropped me into the water to sink. God she stinks. I still don't fully get this piece of learned helplessness I want to understand this more.

[Hopalong]

I am pretty dazzled by your investigations, Boat.

I do not think you are stuck in "learned helplessness."

You are correcting identifying how you learned it.

Once you recover from the anguish, grief and anger over how your mother didn't give you what you needed,
you will be free--as in, inner self actually open and free--to learn to acquire it for yourself. Never mind "belated."

One learns what one learns when one learns it...and if you accept that you have INHERENT worth and dignity
no matter where you are on the learning curve, the process can be a series of happy discoveries, even amid
various miseries.

I have faith in that, anyway.

Hops

[Meh]

Well there is something I'm noticing that I didn't "Get it" when I was younger. I (probably other people also) can act like everything is okay or try to acheive, or look the part and play the part that one is together and okay. The thing is if there is something in there, inside of me or probably (us) that is not okay, or didn't get worked out somehow the way it should have or didn't grow like it should have that it WILL show up again later in life or it will cause problems or manifest SOMEHOW and SOME WAY. The most invisible, broken hard to see things inside the self might be the most powerful factors that control/limit/shape us in the present and the future.

[sKePTiKal]

You are correct, Starlight! That something inside does show up - in all kinds of ways - even physically, for me. We call it lots of things... inner child, unconscious, higher self, etc. Sometimes, I call it my "evil twin"... but lovingly!! (LOL...)

You could call it - a "broken heart" - too. I used that description for awhile because of what I observed of that "other me"... and how it felt. Broken hearts can self-mend (sometimes wiser), if they're allowed dignity, grieving, and space... the time to heal. A patient, compassionate listener during that time, is a really good thing. Because going through that self-mending - while it's something a person can only do by themselves; they actually do the mending - the process really requires that other person... to HEAR the story of what happened... to say, "Damn right you were pissed! I would've been too"... or "OH MY... how awful!... You need a hug", throwing their arms wide open and if you choose to accept the hug... just surrendering to the comfort, the caring and letting out all the pain that's been hidden away for so long because there WASN'T that "other 3rd person" back then, to do that...

... and as children who were taught to keep secrets to protect someone else, never expect, much less hope and ask for - those kinds of needs to be met for ourselves... we didn't really learn that it's more than just OK to be a blubbering chaotic mess - to actually fall apart emotionally - and be comforted by someone safe, who cares... who isn't going to make fun of us or expect us to just "snap to" and "get over it" and "figure it out" while they walk away. It's what being HUMAN is all about. This kind of "letting go" of pent up, archeological emotion is a kind of emotional-intellect-processing; it's how we think with our emotions -- at least, that's my theory/explanation and it still works for me. This is consistently one of the things that "Mama Never Told Us"***... that I see in my and other people's posts from time to time. It feels as if it's never been OUR turn to be in that position with another person.

Least, that's what I know about me, anyway. And I also know it turned out I wasn't so helpless in relation to my inner self, after all. It takes time, but you can learn to be on the same side and work together. In my case, it was like taming a wild beast... but that was only because she was hurt so deeply and badly. She was really a soft, mushy marshmallow... and only tried to wreak havoc and be so big & scary... to protect herself.

You always amaze me with how clearly you "get something" -- and then dive right into, and out the other side -- with an in-depth understanding. It expands what I learned from my own process - a lot - it ADDS to it, to read what you're seeing, feeling and learning. I have tunnel-vision a lot.


*** Mama can't teach what Mama don't know herself.

[Meh]

*** Mama can't teach what Mama don't know herself.

Mama is a selfish witch. There are definitely times when she knew better--She has always gotten away with playing dumb. She didn't try. 

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, those kinds of mothers exist; they're real; sadists... people who can only feel better if they're making someone else miserable. Even more horrible, is that they are kinda proud of how they are... they aren't embarassed nor do they see/feel any shame for their impact on others.

Momsters.

     They are the real-life army of zombies, I sometimes think.

I am so sorry your mom was one of those, Star. They really don't deserve the kid you were - and adult you are now. Their attempts to pretend to have a relationship are intensely painful.

You are smart, you are sensitive, creative, and there's that bubbly mirth you've shown here and there. You've been able to teach me what play IS. You deserved a better mother than that. You are also persistent, insightful, and caring... there is wisdom in you that I see, too. I have a suspicion that you can learn quickly -- so gaining a specific "skill set" is the least of your worries.

You sound like you're at a pretty hard part on your path. I think I know where/what it is... but it's best if you say it all yourself now. I'm going to sit on my fingers and bite my tongue... because you're telling YOUR story... and I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear how it all comes clear for you. Something my T used to tell me kinda fits right now: there is no timetable for getting it, for seeing a certain thing, getting past it... each person is different and has different kinds of "guardians" or "trolls" on the path (fears, upside down/inside out ideas, etc) to deal with; some of those will take more time to get past...

... maybe you need to get some rest first; maybe just break up your routine and do something different... what do you need right now, Star?

[Hopalong]

Hey Boat (thanks again for letting me still call you Boat, just feel a lot of affection for that name),

I think even malice, even cruelty, is still a form of "not knowing."
If someone really knew or were capable of knowing with some depth of recognition what a difference it would make in their own lives, much less another's...to forswear malice and cruelty (or at a minimum to apologize and try to make amends when they popped up, since they are in human nature) -- then it's hard to imagine they'd choose the blunted, hurtful, dysfunctional thing.

But whatever they reason they choose it at times, or stumble into it, or hide in it, they're accountable for it. You have to protect yourself from cruelty anyway. It's not going anywhere.

I have a handfull of unique ignorances, and so does everyone else who walks on dirt.
My Nmother showed malice on occasion; usually, emotionally, she was just perky but blank. My brother was malicious as a hobby. My father -- I think in my entire life I heard him make two cutting remarks that hurt my feelings. They weren't pure sarcasm, but they were judgmental. And the rest of the time, he emanated peace. He'd get exasperated and overwhelmed, but when he had a chance to make me smile or create a little peace in the atmosphere, he would.

I know what you mean about a therapist's listening not being enough. It takes a village. A menu. A whole network.
Did either of your parents drink? I was wondering if a ACOA meeting plus a wise sponsor could be like "therapist #2) -- and free.
And/or a UU pastoral care type person.

I am helped, at 61, by finding an OLDER person to talk with. Not instead of a therapist, but in addition to.

Anyhow, I am visualizing a village for you, so your entire hopes aren't set only on the therapy...but on the therapy PLUS.

You are a blogger, or could be.

I don't think I'm helping, a bit blue myself today...but here's a gentle rock (no pun intended)...

Hops