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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by lighter on December 10, 2019, 03:12:39 PM »

I spoke with ex martial arts instructor for hours over the past 2 days.  Catching up was a lot of fun, bc we're interested in lots of the same things.... not a lot of people are. 

We shared information, sites, and statistics about law enforcement, martial arts, legal system, boxing for Parkinson's patients, Buddhism, brain integration, psychotherapy, mind/body/spririt connections and self care rituals at every level.... it's like a happy game of mental Twister.  Very enjoyable.  His background as one of the first Navy Seals, martial artist/healer/student of Buddhism/Toaism, hair dresser, salon/school owner, bounty hunter, PI and trainer of law enforcement officers/hairdressers/massage students, bounty hunters, martial arts... make him a very interesting character, IME.

I worked on 3 paperwork issues this morning.... solved 1, escalated 1, and left another message on the third.   Felt good, no emotional reactivity... or not much at all I noticed,  then put together a breakfast salad, and enjoyed it.. very satisfied. 

I dropped teacher's gifts and snacks off.  Those people deserve good chocolate and coffee.... they just do, uh huh.

I'll send out Christmas cards tomorrow.  I don't send many, so it's easy.

I'm curious why I don't work out the way I used to when I KNOW it helps regulate chemistry, mood, hormones... everything.   I'm curious what has to shift for regular workouts to drop back in place and I believe they will drop in place. 

Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Tuppp's 'On The Move' Thread :)

« Last post by lighter on December 09, 2019, 01:09:30 PM »

I sincerely hope you're heading to less reactivity around all things, ((Tupp.))

Well done decluttering your space: )

Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Tuppp's 'On The Move' Thread :)

« Last post by Twoapenny on December 09, 2019, 01:32:07 AM »

Tupp, I really identify with your journey since we have been through some of the same things---and still are.

My first five years in this city were in housing that I really was uncomfortable in. It was impossible to function in a way that felt like me and I had to find a new way of relating. My home has always been the center of who I am, and to live in places that were so cramped and non functional struck at the core of my identity. It was very hard. I hear you.

It is better now. I still look back and try to think how I could have stayed more grounded during those years. I don't have the answer yet. I'm also aware that I am not getting younger. I may have to re visit that experience and I want to do it better, but I just dont have any insight at this point.

It's also a challenge when you have adult children who are not able to make the normal transition to independence. I really hear you there.  You are constantly walking the tight rope between pushing them to be all they can be, and accepting that they may be currently experiencing all they can be. It's very hard. And you get very little helpful advice. I just want you to know that I get where you are.

I think the de-cluttering you are doing is going to be really therapeutic for you. The clear space gives you some clear mental space. I don't know why that is, but it is true for me as well. I have always been a "maximalist" more than a minimalist, but I am becoming fierce in my need to have uncluttered space. My whole self relaxes.

Thinking of you this holiday season and hoping the new year brings all kinds of new insights to you and your son.

CB

Thanks, CB, yes, it's different aspects of different things, isn't it?  Home is such an important place, it's your anchor and your port in a storm and when home itself is stressful it's hard to relax and wind down.  I don't look forward to coming home when we're out, even though I've made it as comfy as I can (and to be honest I've worked a bit of a miracle with it, even if I do say so myself!).  But it's so small that it was only possible to put the Christmas tree up once we'd cleared out the stuff for the carboot sale, and now that the Christmas tree is up, the only place to put the clothes airer is actually in the bath tub.  When I take it out of the bath because I need to bath son I have to put it in the doorway of my bedroom because there just isn't any floor space to put the thing down.  Crazy that they can build houses this small and call them two bedrooms.  Really it's one bedroom with a study.  But - it won't be forever.  We walked home past the homeless camp yesterday; they've moved the people in tents from the edges of town (there's an election coming up so the current party in power don't want evidence of the horror and destruction their policies have caused) to the wooded areas that lie between the pedestrian access paths that criscross the land between the different parts of town, and there were rats running between the tents and over their bags and piles of possessions and it was just such a horrifying sight so, I do need to be grateful for what I have without accepting it and doing nothing to change it.

But yesterday was such a good day!  A friend has been doing some work from home for an online company and it's going alright for her so she sent me the info about it - I'll look into it as soon as these last complaints are written up.  Son and I took the bus to the beach and enjoyed the views from the top deck and then went for a hot chocolate.  We just missed the connecting bus from town to home on the way back so decided to walk and it was nice.  Son did well and we've got a day off today so he can put his feet up and have a rest now.  I did a nice dinner and prepped it all before we went out and I love to get home and just put dinner on, not to have to start peeling and chopping.  So it was a nice day.  Christmas prep is minimal and I'm on the case with it.  I'm starting to feel less reactive about friends who haven't been very supportive, which is good.  De-cluttering is a tonic.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Catch up

« Last post by Twoapenny on December 09, 2019, 01:10:47 AM »

CB, you handled that beautifully.  Very difficult, as a parent, not to meddle, step in, build bridges, protect, influence and so on.  Takes a huge amount of strength to say, "Yep.  Sort yourselves out, I'm sorting veggies here.  Crack on."  Wow.  Amazing.  The tree decorating sounds lovely.  Ours is full of things my son made over the years and it makes me smile to take them out of the box.  Well done you.  And yes, Christmas.  Come as you are.  Speak or don't speak.  Not my place to deal with.  Perfect attitude.  You remind me of my cat - "Yo, I'm sitting here sunning myself on this window ledge.  You can come over - or stay over there.  I'm not moving"  Ha ha!  Perfect place to be.  Well done you xx

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by Hopalong on December 08, 2019, 08:12:33 PM »

Lighter honestly, I truly would imagine that visiting a Reiki practitioner (as supplement to, not replacement for, the intense T-work you're already doing) would be amazing.

If you try it, hope you'll let us know.

(And now you know I truly am a cafeteritarian about healing modalities, "western" or alternative! What helps from each, just helps. Mind stays open. Evidence matters.)

Hugs
Hops

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by lighter on December 08, 2019, 07:07:30 PM »

OK, Reike looks a bit like what an Oncology Nurse did for my Bill in Washington when we attended a seminar on different cancer treatments. What she did appears to have been Raiki, though she didn't call it that. 

 She found his energy...... way off the side, away from his body, then attempted to remove the pain in his liver by holding her hands over that area.  Bill made upset noises about increased pain... the pain was bouncing around, and getting worse. 

The nurse said the pain was "sticky, like taffy" and stopped trying after a while. It appeared she was catching the pain, and trying to pull it OUT.  I didn't understand what I was looking at, and wouldn't have believed it if B wasn't crying out in pain as she moved her hands near, but not ON his body.  Amazing.     

We also saw an MD who practiced acupressure.  Bill was amazed to find his arm strength came and went, depending on what the Doc dropped in his lap. B didn't want to leave that doctor's office.  Ever.  He was a believer, and wanted that doctor's help.

I think B could have been helped if he'd been more open to alternative medicine before he became ill.  As it was he was dx'd with the same colon cancer his father had at exactly the same age his father died of it.  How much of that is controlled by the mind?  Outside factors, like drinking alcohol, which B did, as did his alcoholic father.  How much is in our genes?

I have no idea, but B said he remembered thinking he would die, just like his father, and wishing for it during his marriage, which I won't comment on except to say I had a chance to see boundary trouncing and PD behaviors from his ex-wife, and his oldest dd when B was unable to defend or protect himself at the end of his life. 

His dd tormented B and me, come to think of it... the entire 5 months, and she did it while referencing her mother.  Like she felt responsible to torment in her mother's place.  I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I didn't understand, and I didn't want to.  My focus was on healing relationships and putting things down on paper for his adult kids  The oldest dd smashed all that to bits, which was sad for the younger siblings. 

I wonder how much of B's illness was created by the emotional turmoil in his life, if any.  The ex-wife never missed a chance to gut the man, IME.  Controlling and denying access to his MIL, who he adored, while she died of pancreatic cancer.

So Reiki.  I think I've seen it, and didn't know what it was.   


Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by lighter on December 08, 2019, 06:43:54 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that lovely T died before her time, Hops.  It sounds like she was an important person in your healing journey.

My T does Reiki, but she hasn't mentioned it in our sessions.  I've never experienced it, and I don't understand what it is exactly. 

:: going to look it up::

Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Catch up

« Last post by lighter on December 08, 2019, 06:40:16 PM »

CB:

Dropping the worry worry worry habit around our children is a balm.   We trust they'll figure out their own stuff, send that message to them, and know it's the most loving thing we can do.  It frees us up to model self-care, and our kids do better when we're doing better, IME.

You have such calm, and peace around it.  I'm glad: )

Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by Hopalong on December 08, 2019, 06:31:13 PM »

This is some of the most intensely detailed stuff I've read about work within those energy or energy-conceived parts of our existence.

I don't have much to add to it, except that I think it's powerful.

Closest thing I ever experienced was repeated shiatsu massages at one point in my life after an injury, from a practitioner I knew and trusted. She ended every session with Reiki, which I didn't understand but trusted because I trusted her.

I always felt more than my hurt body was helped by those sessions. She later died in an accident in S. Africa where she was helping people affected by the AIDS epidemic, which tells you something about the kind of person she was.

Hugs
Hops

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread

« Last post by lighter on December 08, 2019, 06:31:10 PM »

Yes, exactly the same.  It's almost like an out of body experience for me.  I know I'm spiraling, I know I'm out of control, I know I'm reacting to something from the past and not from the present - but I can't step in to do anything about it.  It's like watching a crash in slow motion, when you can see the cars are going to hit but there's nothing you can do to stop it.



At a point, we bring up the event, and I think about it from beginning to end while doing EMDR.  Check-in with how I'm feeling, focus on that and do more EMDR. 

It's like we bring up the distress, then calm it down, bring it up, calm it down, and so on.  Put numbers on it.  In this case, I had a very sharp stabbing pain in my back, left side which is associated with chakras, and being betrayed, in a nutshell.  Made sense to me.

Yes, makes sense to me as well.

Next, we go through the story and loop it from beginning to end more than once while doing EMDR, then check in on feelings, and address them with EMDR.

I'm not sure what happens next, so will jot down approximates....
Bring up someone INTO the scenario we look up to, trust, feel protected by and advocated by.... I chose myself, again, grown, calm, and helping everyone in the scene, which was intuitive for me.

It's telling that you choose yourself, Lighter, to stand up for yourself.

I think it helps me to hold my parents with compassion and give them the help they didn't have while raising young children.  Their parents didn't know better.  Their parents knew they were "special" and IMO my grandparents saw us, the grandchildren, as extensions of their children.... not separate, or worthy of the same gc treatment, certainly.  Well, my brother was golden child II on my father's side of the family, but that had all kinds of biases towards men tied in also.  My mother's side didn't see any grandchildren as important as my mother.
 My mother's figure was more important than breastfeeding babies, for instance.
 There was never a question mom would swallow that little pill that made her milk fall out at once.  God only knows what they put in those earlier man-made formulas doctors shoved down mother's throats as "better than mother's milk."  Asses. See there?  I identify that harsh judgment and I do think it points to my inability to release judging myself.  It comes and goes, IME.   

I went through the story as I wished it had happened, and that went pretty quick, compared to the other stuff.  I noticed the original story was getting more difficult to bring into focus when I tried and was just not coming up for me when I tried to picture it as we went along.

Then it was time to put everything/pictures/stories/pain into a box from the original story, or from a set of years, or an entire lifetime, or just an entire childhood, and I chose all the upsetting incidents I could recall, put them in the box, and chose total destruction through burning.

I built the fire in my firepit, and there were family members... everyone close, all deceased, and my siblings when they were younger, and our grandparents and parents comforted sibs and my younger self while I burned the entire box to ashes.  Mom served food from a picnic basket.... children napped.... everyone sat in the old-time yard chairs from my Paternal grandparent's yard. 

I love that there was a picnic   Does T talk you through that story or do you create that in your mind?

I'm super private, so I mostly go through these steps on my own, without telling T about it as it happens.   I don't think I could speak about it,
 bc I'm just THERE, in that place visualizing, and it takes a lot of energy.  A LOT of energy.  Afterwards, the T always asks questions about how things went, besides asking me about how the feeling in my body changed or didn't change.  She wants to know who I picked to be present, what we were doing, if I burned the box of pictures down to complete ash..... she asks for details, but only after I've processed in my own way, in silence, during EMDR to the finish.  If she asks for any detail in the middle, I don't remember it, and I think I'd be put off by it, and perhaps thrown out of the moment. 

About what the T says when she asks me to choose someone... .she'll say some people select a Saint, or a protective family member, or a superhero, or themselves as an empowered competent adult, and give me choices. I think I just nod when I have it, and I don't necessarily tell her what I picked... maybe after that EMDR moment passes, and we're checking somatic responses she asks. 
If I was the T I'd want to know!  I'd want more feedback, and this T does ask for it, eventually, but I doubt I'd share much if she didn't gently enquire, and she begins her inquiries by sharing her experience with that kind of session, or of another person's experience or of common experiences which do make me curious,
 and engages me from a place of wanting to see how my experience stacks up to other people's.   I find myself really interested in hearing more, and I give her something of my experience,and she reciprocates, and it's a give and take.
  I would shut down if I felt she was barging into my experience for the sake of entertainment, which used to bother me with my FOO.  She gently tip toes around my boundaries in a super respectful, overtly compassionate manner that IMHO is required to get to this place FOR ME.  A bossy T, telling me what I MUST DO, how and when would not suit me at all, IME.

Like I said before, I remember more as the sessions go on.  Maybe discussions afterwards, with me back in a good place, are what stick, or help the memories stick with more detail, and expanded content?

When the deed was done, I think we got up, and headed toward a bridge to our new lives.  At the bridges edge we stopped to empty our pockets of everything from the past that needed to be left behind.  I just had us take off all our clothes, and walk across the bridge in white cotton shifts, shorts and tee shirts. 

When we got there we explored how that felt, then pictured a fountain.

Babies played in the spray, and grandparents sat on the edge, or in chairs by the side, and I dived in, and twirled, and did backflips in the water over and over... just all in, immersed, and refreshed.

I didn't think about the original story, bc in memory reconsolidation you want to let the new story continue processing as is.  Every time we bring up a picture or story it's changed.  Never static.  It was easy to leave it alone, as it was the first time we did this for a different story..... I'd say I was 4 yo for the first one, and 11yo for the second story.

Those two stories were traced back from current trigger stories, and we worked on them until there was zero emotional charges involved with any aspect of the original story or the present-day triggers we started with.

It's easier to lean into the discomfort of this work when I know and trust it leads to processing the story, and into a serene place of relief, and gratitude it's done.  I believe it will last, and so far so good... it's 100% remained in place.  Old stories gone. 

It's amazing that it's re-wiring your brain like this.  And doing physical good, I imagine, by unlocking and unblocking things.

I see it as relieving stress in the brain, bringing up traumatic events, moving them into processing centers/midbrain/feeling areas, checking the somatic input, working on the somatic with EMDR, checking the feelings, presenting the story to the brain again with EMDR, then checking the feelings, and how it looks, what's changed, etc.  EMDR on the feelings to further reduce stress,  then checking, and we just keep presenting the information to the brain, over and over while relieving stress.  We don't move on to the next phase till we get to zeros or near zeros. 

New stories in place... I experience so much relief where there was a lot of pain, tough emotions, and painful bodily sensations.  Like a thousand pounds lifted.  I don't care what the pounds were, or where they went, though I visualize them as
engaging unprocessed emotions in the amygdala....
the T assists with brain integration, helping to bring other parts of the brain online to support the amygdala, relieve tension around the story and in the brain, and make it possible to move that story into the processing center, then present it again and again to be processed until the brain has calmed enough to complete processing and file it into historic files in just the way I would have had that story go IF I HAD CONTROL OVER THE SITUATION. 

I can't tell you how satisfying it is to EXPERIENCE that outcome, and process.... just the details that come out of my mouth when asked how I'd rather have had that experience go.... I'm always shocked by the details and direction, and those things come without having to think, typically, or with very little reflection.  It feels like just the right answers were always there, waiting.

This is a pretty close approximating, and I didn't remember the fire, or the bridge, or the fountain from the first time we completed this process.  It felt like we were doing this for the first time. 

Shiftring into fight or flight mode feels a lot like being blindfolded and gagged.... sat on..... forced into a corner.....  unable to move or shift out of that space, and it's EVERYTHING.....
I just didn't have the ability to remember those parts of the process when we completed the experience the first time.

I must not have had access to the parts of my brain that create new memories while I was IN that place..... and this time.... that I can remember more.... for me means I've calmed my brain enough to have some restored access during times of intense stress.... of reducing the stress, and it's hoped every time we get through this, along with consistent practice to fire and wire new neural pathways... I'll achieve more resilience, finish processing the unprocessed triggers from most to least powerful,  until I'm able to regulate my emotions consistently as default setting.  If not, I'll know how to calm myself and move into a place where I can regulate my emotions.

Will be so amazing for you to get to a point where all you're dealing with is right here and right now, Lighter, and being able to put all that energy into creating things that you want, rather than dealing with things that you don't.  So amazing and much deserved.

Sometimes when we do check-ins at the end of a session, something will come up... 2 sessions ago it was a T who harmed me and my children... the court-appointed T who terrorized us an entire summer, and made my children fear they'd be taken from me and given to their paternal grandparents in 2013.... THAT woman, the thought of her... that she made my youngest feel responsible for that terror....  is still in place, and T said it's my own self-judgment that's behind that, which shut me up, and made me think. 

What does she mean by your self-judgement, Lighter?  I was a bit confused by that.  It's quite early here Lol

T wants me to understand I've always done the best I could in every moment, considering the circumstances, widen my gaze, and understand that everyone is doing their best with that they have.  My judging someone else means I haven't dropped judgment.  I'm still flipping back into that mode.  If I'm judging others, I'm certainly judging myself,  and if I'm judging others I haven't widened my gaze to understand all humans are flawed, and doing their best, which relieves me of the need and desire to judge anything or anyone.  Things aren't personal. They just are.

Two appointments ago we worked on cutting energetic ties with imaginary scissors.  This was about that backstabbing pain again.  She associated this with energetic ties between people that keep us joined.  She said I could ask higher powers of my choice, that make sense to me, to help.  For instance, I could ask a beloved Grandfather to use his pocket knife, so familiar from our fishing trips.  Someone who believes in Saints, and is comfortable asking them for help might picture that Saint using a sword to cut that tie, and so on.   

Just shutting down the cycle is an amazing thing.  Bringing my attention to it.... and knocking the stuffing out of rage that's building and building... is an amazing thing.

Yesterday T told the story of monks burying a golden buddha in mud when their village was ransacked and overtaken by an enemy.  Years later, after all the monks were gone, a child saw the glint of gold, leading to uncovering this beautiful buddha, and that reminded me of Tupp.   

Lol, I often look in the mirror and think I look like I've been dug up, Lighter   Lol
Today I honestly considered getting dreadlocks.  For real, lol. I'm questioning my idea of what I should look like, and what society tells me I should look like.  Widening my gaze; )

Just clearing out all the mud, and garbage, and judgments other people installed when we weren't able to defend ourselves, or make sense of it at the time. 

Now that we're adults, and capable of defending ourselves.... and in my case, with help from a good T maybe to show me how, and keep me focused....
we uninstall the garbage, and remember what was always there.

And that brings me back to the gray black excercise.  We're reconsolidating and changing the garbage stories INTO the original truth.

It's not hard.  It's not a difficult process.  It's relieving stress in the brain so the brain can do what it does efficiently WHEN IT'S NOT STUCK IN FIGHT OR FLIGHT MODE/amygdala/reptilian brain.  We're remembering what's been there from the start, and will always be there.

One last thing about yesterday's appointment.... I didn't realize I held some of the beliefs around the story of my ASPD N husband, and the first night he assaulted me and I thought I would be killed while listening to my oldest 4yo dd call our for me.... THAT is something I've never processed, and thinking about it was like experiencing someone else's feelings and thoughts about it, bc I just haven't done it.  Ever. 

Terrifying, Lighter, and more so because of the kids.  I had one aggressive incident with son's father.  He had me backed against a wall and was screaming in my face - not physically touching, but very aggressive, very violent, very unpleasant.  Son was asleep in his cot, very young at the time, but what was going through my mind was that I could easily get away from this idiot and get out the front door - but I couldn't easily get away, get up the stairs, get son, get back down the stairs and get past him to get out the front door with son in my arms.  I have more experiences of being trapped, thinking I'd die, while frantically trying to think my way OUT of the house, with my purse, with my car keys, with my children.... just not die, and which door I might get to, and the desperate acceptance I'd have to go without the girls or we'd all be done,  and these racing terrible truths... that I'd never be able to outrun him in the street, or to the door.... putting the butcher block between us, then the dining room table... and I could have circled forever, bc not circling was death.  I think I'll be working on this stuff in the next session, and it's not scary.  I lean in bc I want to release the energy tying me to it, and be free of it.  I deserve to be free of it, and that's the mission now; )  And if I got out I wouldn't have any feeds, nappies or a change of clothes for son, either. Once I dreamed a nuclear blast was heading towards us, and I was getting things together for after we were killed by it.  I got diapers, and clean foot in jammies together, and it felt SO real.  The mommy imperative...  the desire to care for our young... to attend to them is so strong. In some of us anyway.  Not all. It makes a huge difference when your kids are being exposed to that level of violence as well.  I think all violence is detrimental to the children.  The statistics say exposure to parent on parent violence is just as detrimental as experiencing the violence for children.  We were, as children, although with us it was usually my mum attacking my dad.  Makes it a much harder thing to deal with and yes, processing will be tough. For me, the physical assault was devastating, and threat to my children all but shut me down emotionally, and physically.  I don't know what the massage T did, but he hurt me quite badly in order to get my lungs working again.  I think something was locked, and pressing into my lungs, as I recall.  It's all a blurr.  Interpersonal terrorism should be reevaluated, IMO.  The same way the courts changed their view of chokeholds...  terrorizing dependent family members and children should be reevaluated with stiffer mandatory punishments that deter, or stop abusers in their tracks bc they're in jail, trying to get bond, IN a system that's difficult to get out of once they're in. Take some of the pay off OUT of the equation. Educating everyone, so those abused are more likely to report the first or second assault... teaching people what abuse looks like, etc.  So many people are raised in abusive homes, it feels and IS normal to them.  Honestly, men hitting little children, and babies for heaven's sake.  Why would we allow that, particularly female children? I never wanted that to be my children's normal... being hit by men who are supposed to love and protect them.   That's just nuts  It never made any sense to me when I started researching discipline, and really LOOKED at my childhood, and how most people in this culture approach child discipline.  I taught my girls no one had the right to put hands on them in anger.  They shouldn't accept name-calling, raised voices, or word salad when engaged or trying to engage in discussions.  But such a relief, I would have thought.  You might need to change your name from Lighter to Lightest   Lol

You know, that's a great idea, ((Tupp!))
Lighter

I didn't recognize my own belief system about it.  I'd never asked myself, or allowed myself to process it. 

It's time, and that one thing leads to a hundred, IME.

The journey continues.

Lighter

Phew!  A lot of work, Lighter, but so rewarding!  I am thinking I might look for an EMDR therapist to help me process everything that comes up as I tackle my paperwork mountain next year.  32 boxes and lever arch files, all representing nearly two decades of abuse, inequality and repeated experiences.  Mmm.  Might be worth investing in some practical support to get through that.  I will look into it further.  Thank you so much for sharing all of this.  I'm glad you are finding it all so useful xx