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Tupp - staying with my contribution - people pleasing myself...

It's not any more complicated than - I'm a people too. And if I'm alone and I want to be loved; I have to love myself. If I want some weeds cut down - I have to gather tools and stir my bones to go cut them. The funny thing is, when I started doing that, the way people who are not me changed how they treated me. I didn't have to make any public proclamations about being treated such & such a way. I was less tongue-tied about asking for what I wanted - because I learned to release the outcome of a request. Person X can say no; it's still a free country, I think. I won't curl up & die because I have to take care of myself.

This is a case of where I think someone told us wrong, or we misperceived the rules. That's all this is. There is a group of people that I will go out of my way to do nice things for - or just spend time with them, enjoying them. And it's reciprocal. But the general public and even acquaintances - don't have that right of expectation from me. I'll be polite; engage openly with about anyone (barring those that just give me the creeps & others with a negative energy force field around them). But it's not in my job description to take care of all the people in the world - in fact, I believe it's detrimental to their emotional well-being and spiritual growth and personal responsibility. Individually, some people who come into my sphere poke at my compassion. They need someone to listen, without judging or fixing; or just companionship; maybe a hand up. So I make choices on a case by case basis.

And if I get any whiff of red flag scent that I'm being taken advantage of then I don't feel badly about telling them no either. My time is valuable to me; I charge a pretty decent rate for my time -- the same time in return, when I want/need. There's an old Steve Winwood (I think) song that fits here:

"You shouldn'ta Took More than you Gave".
Thank you all, so much, for all of the things you've said and suggested.  I can't tell you how much it means to me and I'm still reading, digesting a bit more, turning a few things around and reading it again.  You've all got such an amazing set of skills.

Lighter, this really kept coming back to me :   With nose off that Pebble, I realize my actions have always invited poor treatment and are perhaps involved in how this other person feels and treats me.  I can change how I act, pronto, so that's happening and just like you said....the chemical dumps stopped.  The drama and anxiety evaporated once I had some perspective .

It's so true.  I have spent most of my life not taking up too much space, time, getting in anyone's way, swallowing down what I want to say, avoiding people and places instead of telling people to bugger off.  I stood up to my mum and oh boy, I'm still feeling the effects of that twenty years later.  I've stood my ground much more for my son but even with him I've realised that I've kept hoping to find someone who 'gets it' because someone else understanding IS EASIER FOR ME THAN WRITING A SET OF CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS AND TELLING SOMEONE THEY MUST DO THAT AND NOT DEVIATE FROM IT.  And I've gone for the caps again because I realised that the idea of me simply saying to someone, "I've written this info pack for you.  There may well be stuff that's already known to you  or things that are obvious but I write it as if the other person has never met a person with my son's disabilities before to make sure nothing is overlooked or misunderstood.  I've explained the effect that not following the plan has on him on page 4 and it's absolutely essential that everything in here is followed at all times.  I'm very happy to chat with you about anything that you want to clarify and you're welcome to call me any time you're looking after him to check anything that you need to".  Why have I never felt able to do that?  So simple, so obvious and right now, it feels completely natural.  Something has shifted and that will definitely be what I do in future.  And people do walk all over me because I don't put myself first, or speak up every time I want to, or I worry more about how something will make them feel rather than how it makes me feel, and so on.  My actions have invited poor treatment.  And even in that most recent situation - I didn't want to go walking with her again, but I was concerned that it would look as if I were avoiding her because of her Covid stance - which would have been true.  Why could I not have just been comfortable with the way I wanted to spend my own time?  Too much people pleasing, Tupp.  Well, not no more!!  Lol.

Skep, I'm working on this: If you figure out how to "people please" your self, please let me know. I'm still working on that one. LOLOLOLOL.
It is a tricky one!  But some of my ponderings today - I did start to wonder if I could have been a bit more understanding/sympathetic/handled it all a bit more calmly and politely (this is the walking lady incident I'm talking about).  This pandemic is hard for everyone, for different reasons, so people are reacting and coping in different ways.  I do wonder if she's autistic (various things in the time I've known here have rung a bell with me).  I haven't got the idea of coronavirus and ableism from anywhere, it's just my take on things so maybe I have got the wrong end of the stick there.  But then I thought well, all of that applies to me as well, so maybe the 'people pleasing yourself' is about being more realistic and being as forgiving of our own (possible) issues as we are of other people?  Mmm.  More to ponder on that one (and on that note I did google 'Coronavirus and ableism' and there's masses of stuff so if she had done her research thoroughly she'd have come across it anyway).

I did also write myself a list of what I want in our lives, or how I want our lives to be.  I came up with

Quiet.  Calm.  Comfortable.  Organised.  Healthy.  Productive (I might change that one - I don't mean productive in an 'endlessly working' way, but more that relaxing and taking time out can be productive.  So maybe it's not the right word).  Joyful.  Connected.

Is that how we please ourselves instead of others?  It was interesting to write it down because usually when I think about how I want to be it's about changing external circumstances - nicer house, more support, more money, boyfriend, social life etc.  But now it feels more about feelings?  Concepts?  Not sure.  Still pondering.  I do feel that I only want things/people/experiences in my life that contribute to those feelings.  I think now I can be more capable of just thinking "do I want this person in my life?"  And if the answer's no simply not analysing it more than that.  That would be something to aim for.  I'll keep working on it.

Hopsie, Inner friend!  I like the sound of that, maybe that is to do with 'people pleasing' yourself as well?  I wonder how different life would be if we only ever did what was in our best interests?  Wouldn't that be a thing?  I kind of feel like the real me is settling in more now.  I do wonder how much of it is to do with this very extended time away from people.  Not having to be anything or do anything around anyone else.  It has made a difference.  And I feel much calmer and clear headed than usual.  I walked further and faster this morning, just pushed myself to do it.  And I looked at myself in a mirror, sans clothes, when I got out of the shower.  I've been avoiding mirrors for at least five or six years now, maybe longer.  It wasn't a pretty sight but it was real, and acceptance of reality?  Maybe that's being your own inner friend?  There is so much to think about lol.  Thank you all, you all help me so much xx
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Coronavirus
« Last post by Hopalong on November 28, 2020, 08:27:36 PM »
Will do, Bettyanne--and you stay safe too!

(We will want to hear in a couple years all about your HAPPY 80th Birthday, you know.)

San Francisco is so beautiful, and the Pacific NW just stunning. I hope you get back to Seattle/Bainbridge Island soon, and on the way will soak up some scenes from a car (or train) that fill your mind with peace. I'll never forget my first trip through Oregon about 7-8 years ago. Driving from Eugene over to and then up the coast was unforgettable. It was the first state I'd ever been in that I knew on sight I could love as much as my East Coast home. Those forests! Elk!

Sorry you have to wait through this weird pandemic winter, but this too shall pass.

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Coronavirus
« Last post by Bettyanne on November 28, 2020, 02:03:47 PM »
Im in San francisco with my daughter Meghan......she drove me down along with her fiancÚ Jared after Bill died.....but now the covid is back doing its thing which I guess never stopped.  I am afraid to fly or take train back up to Seattle......and then ferry to Bainbridge Island, WA
I hope your all doing as well as can possible be at this time???
I don't know what to say.....never in my life of 77 years do I remember anything this bad......
Stay well and safe friends......keep a good distance away and wear masks.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Relationship/s
« Last post by Twoapenny on November 28, 2020, 04:11:19 AM »
Lighter said everything far more eloquently than me, Hopsie :)  Yes to all of the above and no to dead horses.  As much time, talking and compassion as necessary is available :)  But with your heart protected so it doesn't get any more chips in it now (and I don't mean the ones you can eat!  Lol) xx
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Relationship/s
« Last post by lighter on November 27, 2020, 09:22:35 PM »

I wouldn't worry about dead horses, if I could help it.

You once posted about the necessity of getting sick of being sick of dissecting a heavy emotional situation, like a breakup.

You were so kind to whomever you were posting to....maybe it was me.  I hope you slow down, stop feeling you SHOULD do anything, and bask in that warm compassion you gift to others without thought.

One more thing, there's going to be a vacuum where M's frantic need, for you, used to be.  I suspect it ties into our feelings of self worth....there's something very potent about the adoration of a wealthy, very intelligent man we like very much, butt for unhealthy attachment styles, maybe a bit on our side too if I'm being honest, and the incompatability of some pretty important core values....and.....any reciprocity - you know what I'm trying to say here.

From me to you....
You have value, no matter if a man is crowing about it or not.  I know this is truth.  I also know the empty sadness you described...quite intimately.

Trust, Hops.  You're an amazing partner and companion.  You deserve to be valued for your voice, as well as your listening skills, so say I.

There are people better suited to quietly going along, particularly if they haven't traveled much or seen a lot of the world, IME. My first husband told me flat out he was unhappy I'd traveled more than him, had more education than him, bc he preferred being guide and teacher in his relationships.

Looking back, I had the information I needed to SEE what was what.

It was acceptance I lacked, imo.

With hindsight, I see my worth was never dependent on either husband's opinion of me.

Even though that's truth, the empty sadness is still real, IME.

Be gentle with yourself, ((Hops.))  It's OK.


Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Farm Doin's - 2020
« Last post by sKePTiKal on November 27, 2020, 01:20:11 PM »
Buck says he sees more frequent evidence of my strut returning. (Bob Seger tune... "He loves to watch her strut") It has literally been since the 80s when I had that - despite my difficulties living as a single mom, and then art school & the always-right, stubborn, perfectionist that was Ex#2.

There are a couple different versions of the strut. Sometimes, it's because I know I physically look good (oh, vanity... never goes away) and that usually happens when I'm feeling good. There's the "going to conquer the world no matter what" strut. And then, "I know something you don't know" strut... LOLOLOL.

Fairly harmless, and I don't bother with worrying about other people's reaction to it - because I'm truly not trying to make anyone feel less than - or that I'm any better than anyone. It used to be a "thing" for me though; that trying to be invisible so I wouldn't attract either unwanted attention or I was so over-responsible about other people's feelings that I would dim my light so as not to be a reason for them feeling bad. I think all I accomplished with that "thing" was simply adding tense energy to interactions. For everyone.

Now onward to taking care of a bit of a list of tasks; nothing heavy-duty... maybe a little fun, too.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: What's New for 2020?
« Last post by Hopalong on November 27, 2020, 12:44:07 PM »
Tupp, that is
a threshhold

You connected with being a friend to yourself. Inner Friend showed up! That's how true friends make us feel. Welcome, connected, confident that we matter equally.

I am so so so so thrilled for you. I understand what this moment means.

Thing is, when good and bad things happen in future, you'll still be human and go through happiness and sadness...but once one has met Inner Friend and recognized her as real, she's a permanent resident. (She's not pushy, and takes up no space because she can fit comfortably anywhere with no tedium for the host.)

Oh wow. Extending Thanksgiving feelings!

huge hug
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Farm Doin's - 2020
« Last post by Hopalong on November 27, 2020, 12:38:23 PM »
That's amazing, Amber. I admire your courage in letting your hurtful D back in, to some degree. I'm sorry she's still not mature enough to notice you as a human being rather than solely parent-to-blame. The estrangement expert, Dr. Jonathan Coleman, says in his books parents of estranged adult children can NEVER expect to be seen and heard that way. Even a token apology would be something amazing to me.

I'm so glad you had a happy evening at the hut and have got your mojo back! It really does seem as though you have an entirely new chapter underway and it's wonderful to hear about.

Hope the mountain always gives you back more strength and inspiration.

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Relationship/s
« Last post by Hopalong on November 27, 2020, 12:22:26 PM »
Thanks, guys. You're both very wise.
I have so appreciated all the patient listening and support.

I'm catching a whiff of dead horse so I'll try harder to move forward.

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