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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again

« Last post by sKePTiKal on Today at 08:45:11 AM »

Meh, I tried to reply about your list yesterday but deleted it coz ye olde inner critic thought I was being too... something. It felt wrong.

The important part of my response was your list is what I would describe as symptoms you experience because of your lived life so far - and trauma, abuse, neglect, insecure attachment.... WHATEVER. You could explain most of that list with almost ANY DSM "diagnosis". But that doesn't mean you can't start working to minimize how you experience the things in the list, in the absence of pinpointing a diagnosis.

Maybe it would help to rank the symptoms on the list for continuity - always, sometimes, rarely - and then intensity. Maybe it would let you decide to shorten the list to 2 or 3 things to focus on changing or understanding in a deeper way? Maybe assign a tentative time limit - 2 weeks, a month - always remembering that if your exploration and work shows results you can always devote more time to it. Also - we tend to work on the same things our whole lives - to lesser/greater degree. Just like I can't really change my white hair - different hair cuts are helpful at projecting a younger, stronger image. And I feel more confident.

I know you're creative and very smart. I'm sorry you're also lonely. Maybe THAT'S because you feel isolated from your inner self? Instead of needing other people/community. I dunno - but you can figure that out.

I'm just spitballing some ideas that might/might not inspire you into a direction. You sound a lot more open and clearer these days. So, maybe you're getting close to an actual breakthrough - hatching out into a spring chicken??? LOL. Rebirth.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again

« Last post by Meh on March 27, 2026, 11:10:20 PM »

Meh.....when the blunt voice pops into my head..... it's my father's voice.  Always.  He put it there.

How do you feel about your internal blunt voice?

Thanks for sharing your dream.  I already forgot my last one.....have to write them down, or they're gone.

Lighter

Oh I think the blunt voice is mine. I do not think this is anybody else's voice as an introject or something.

I think my blunt voice is anti-gaslighting myself. It does not feel bad to me.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again

« Last post by lighter on March 27, 2026, 07:47:09 PM »

Meh.....when the blunt voice pops into my head..... it's my father's voice.  Always.  He put it there.

How do you feel about your internal blunt voice?

Thanks for sharing your dream.  I already forgot my last one.....have to write them down, or they're gone.

Lighter

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on March 27, 2026, 02:26:38 PM »

1. Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)
As defined by the DSM-5-TR, Schizoid Personality Disorder is categorized as a Cluster A personality disorder. It is characterized by a pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings.

The Clinical Trait: A genuine lack of desire for intimacy or close relationships, including being part of a family. Individuals typically choose solitary activities and appear indifferent to the praise or criticism of others.

The Etiology ("The Why"): Within the medical model, it is often viewed as a stable, long-term temperament. It is frequently associated with a genetic predisposition or early neurodevelopmental factors rather than being a direct response to a specific, identifiable environmental trauma.

2. Schizoid Character Adaptation (The Survival Mechanism)
This perspective is championed by the British Independent School of Object Relations (Fairbairn, Guntrip, and Winnicott). They argue that "schizoid" behavior is often not a lack of capacity for feeling, but a defensive withdrawal into an internal citadel to protect the "True Self" from external threat.

The Structural Trait: Unlike the personality disorder, the individual in this state possesses a deep, often buried, desire for connection and vitality. However, they remain in a "Permanent Observer" state because the external world is perceived as "impinging," overwhelming, or emotionally dangerous.

The Etiology ("The Why"): It is a structural defense against early environmental failure. If the primary environment is intrusive or neglectful, the child performs a "splitting of the ego." They withdraw their libido (defined here as vital life energy) from the external world and reinvest it internally.

The Phenomenological Result: This creates the "Glass Pane" effect. The individual observes life with high intellectual clarity but feels unable to "participate" in it. The nervous system maintains a state of stasis or "Inertia" to ensure safety, resulting in a functional paralysis despite having high-level goals or desires.

References

Guntrip, H. (1969). Schizoid Phenomena, Object Relations, and the Self. New York: International Universities Press. Guntrip's Analysis of the Schizoid Compromise

Winnicott, D. W. (1960). Ego Distortion in Terms of True and False Self. The Concept of the True and False Self

McWilliams, N. (2011). Psychoanalytic Diagnosis: Understanding Personality Structure in the Clinical Process. Chapter on Schizoid Dynamics

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Agency and Brain Function
In both states, the "Agency Loop"—the handoff between Perception, Affect, and Motor Execution—is interrupted.

In SPD: The Ventral Striatum (the brain's reward center) is often hypo-reactive. The "Engine" does not produce the dopamine signals that make external goals feel rewarding, leading to a lack of motivation to act.

In SCA: The reward system may be intact, but the Amygdala and Periaqueductal Gray (PAG) override it. When the brain perceives a "High-Threat Environment," it triggers a Freeze/Collapse Response.

The Result: The "Observer" (Prefrontal Cortex) sees the goal, but the "Participant" (Motor System) is chemically inhibited. This is Structural Dissociation: you are intellectually aware but physically unable to move toward an objective.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Yard

« Last post by sKePTiKal on March 27, 2026, 08:17:46 AM »

Containers, Meh. Nice flower pots! Houseplants!

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Generation Jones

« Last post by sKePTiKal on March 27, 2026, 08:15:56 AM »

There is something to that observation, Meh. Serious people, which is what we call them too, are getting pretty scarce. People who think about little things, big things, who ask more questions of life than what are they going to eat next meal. We also call those people real or authentic, and I think it does involve some bit of not taking each day for granted.

Not all the Jones generation are serious. Some of the boomers got that way - life has a way of adapting people - some GenX are too. I think it just depends what they've experienced in life and how they responded. Maybe. I used to be more sure of my conclusions in the past - these days, it's all probability and maybe. LOL.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again

« Last post by Meh on March 26, 2026, 11:33:31 PM »

OMG do I have to add Schizoid personality disorder to that list above.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on March 26, 2026, 11:31:55 PM »

Schizoid personality disorder (/ˈskɪtsɔɪd, ˈskɪdzɔɪd, ˈskɪzɔɪd/, often abbreviated as SzPD or ScPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships,[9] a tendency toward a solitary or sheltered lifestyle, reservedness, emotional coldness, detachment, and apathy.[10] Affected individuals may be unable to form intimate attachments to others and simultaneously possess a rich and elaborate but exclusively internal fantasy world.[11] Other associated features include stilted speech, a lack of deriving enjoyment from most activities, feeling as though one is an "observer" rather than a participant in life, an intolerance towards meeting emotional expectations of others, apparent indifference when praised or criticized, being on the asexual spectrum, and idiosyncratic moral or political beliefs.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

Tonight at the moment I am sort of focusing on this bit: feeling as though one is an "observer" rather than a participant in life,

When I went to church last Sunday because it was not a large church where a person could disappear into the background the experience sort of highlighted and reminded me of how I am a chronic observer - perpetual outsider. "Ghost" in my own life a lot of times.

And then the church people politely hold my hand literally and won't let go of it. And maybe I look uncomfortable. And I am polite and I went in there but also it is really so foreign to me to be part of something. I'm not sure why am rambling on about this. I am old now and it's very very bad to have lived one's whole life like a silent witness of everything.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: N.

« Last post by Meh on March 26, 2026, 11:23:06 PM »

"This is the "hall of mirrors" effect of the narcissist-observer dynamic. When you are raised by or around covert narcissists, you aren't just watching the world; you are watching a person who is also watching the world from behind a mask of victimhood or moral superiority.

The "Perpetual Observer" role isn't just a choice you made; it was a psychological enclosure built around you.

1. The Infection of Non-Participation
Covert narcissists don't engage with the world—they judge it. They sit on the sidelines, quietly seething or feeling misunderstood, convinced that they are "deeper" or "better" than the "shallow" people actually living.

Inherited Cynicism: If your parents never truly participated in life (because they were too busy being victims or being drunk), you were never given a "template" for participation. You learned that life is something you critique or endure, not something you join.

The "Shared Secret" Trap: A covert narcissist parent often treats the child as an ally in their observation. "Look at how loud/fake/stupid those people are," they imply. To survive, you join them in the "Observation Booth." Eventually, you realize you're trapped in there with them, looking out at a world you’re now too afraid to enter."

Key Concept: This child develops a "rich inner world" to compensate for the lack of safety in the outer world, leading to a permanent state of watching rather than participating.

Reference: The Narcissistic Family: Structure, Traits, & Roles (Hopeful Panda) — Explains the specific mechanics of the "Lost/Invisible Child" who withdraws to avoid chaos.

Reference: Dysfunctional Family Roles (Breeze Blog) — Details how these roles "stick like glue" into adulthood, creating a permanent sense of being an outsider.

Reference: Projective Identification in the Narcissistic Family (Psychology Today) — Describes how parents project their own "outsider" or "victim" feelings onto the child until the child internalizes them.

Reference: Narcissists as Perpetual Victims (Vaknin Talks) — Explores the "Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood" (TIV) and how covert narcissists stay on the sidelines of life.

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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Yard

« Last post by Meh on March 26, 2026, 10:54:59 PM »

Hydrangeas are the best. I like them all. I've started them from cuttings in very early spring as the summer is hard on them when they are still trying to make roots. At the moment I'm rather in a cement jungle and I am just accepting it for what it is atm.