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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Last post by Hopalong on April 22, 2026, 11:07:04 PM »
You're right on point, like the fly on the wall, Lighter. No offense to you or flies.

It's beyond, way beyond, time to let it go. But I think I got there. I'm embarrassed at how much I've perseverated over this drama, especially here. But I'm breathing oxygen, relaxing with Pup, feeling relieved and more or less relaxed.

The whole thing felt a bit like a graduation from revolving around narcissistic people, mainly M at first, then this mask-dropping realization about Poet. What matters to me in the present is not so much about them as it has been recognizing the risks of empathy, how loneliness can drive you into the wrong orbit, how "neediness" (I know you don't like that term) can mislead you too.

I guess what feels good is I don't feel lost. I feel like I've found the bottoms of my own feet, and I am not confused about why I withdrew from this relationship.

Son of a gun.

hugs
Hops
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 07:20:45 PM »
Stepping back from placating.....is ....sad, IME.

  It's me, recognizing self abandonment......
giving myself away, to keep the peace......
bc.....
well.

Because of the reaction Poet's giving your request for decent treatment.  Your refusal to swallow your truth.

And.....IME.....the more directly truthful one is.....the more punitive the PD reaction.

That's not about you, imo.  That's about whatever cavern of fear and regret the Poet's trapped in. 

If she could express it......take it out, in the light ...... examine it with someone who cares about her..... she'd have a chance to seek peace.....feel better..... cultivate joy, imo.

Her defense mechanisms make it impossible to self reflect.  I've seen this show up close.

It's sad, like I said.  So many good things, but no space for reciprocity.....and it's ok to be done with placating flawed people, at one's expense.

My God.....
it really is time to let it go,((Hops.))

BTW.....I'd be surprised if Poet didn't attempt a character assassination on her way out of the club.  I hope you're curious, instead of worrying.

Some dumb bunnies like chaos and the spirit of retribution, IME. 

Some will see the Poet for what she is.

Maybe you'll get some terrific poems brewing up from the depths.

I want to hear them!!!

Lighter





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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 06:56:21 PM »
Thanks, Hops.  It IS nice to see brother's eyes shine again.

And.....skunk. 
I like it too 🦨

Lighter
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: The Lake House
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 06:54:47 PM »
I'm not good at it either, but I'm tenacious as hell, Hops.

Even a small labyrinth would be nice.

Lighter
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Last post by Hopalong on April 22, 2026, 05:36:56 PM »
Forgot to tell you I'm happy about your brother story.
Hope it's warm and lasting for them.

And your childhood smell memories!
(I remember thinking horse poo was some kinda perfume...)

:)
hugs
Hops
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 01:45:57 PM »
Unexpected fruits of planting.....
smelling straw.....bc childhood ponies, puppies and barn kittens.
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: The Lake House
« Last post by Hopalong on April 22, 2026, 12:28:39 PM »
The UU campus here has a stone path labyrinth, Lighter. I'm no good at it (squirrel in head will not meditate) but I think it's a lovely idea for your lake place.

I like the idea of using broken stones like I did for my patio, which really has a beautiful visual texture, if there can be such a thing. Weed cloth beneath, plus sand.

Create away, your joy is audible!

hugs
Hops
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Last post by Hopalong on April 22, 2026, 12:24:47 PM »
Exactly. Feet stomping. Taking toys but breaking them on the way out. I shouldn't have responded the first time.

I have had all sorts of jargon zip through my head but I think her fury is defensive. Like the aftermath of a narcissistic injury. I feel sad about telling her a couple things that pierced her defenses and likely caused her pain. But I also know that stubborn truth telling from my own perspective is the only thing I can do.

Body still feels it some today, Lighter, but better. Dropping shoulders. Happiness is a warm Pup, who's faithfully squashing my feet so I don't ooze off the bed.

Poet really has become a tragic figure to me. Tragic with fangs and claws. I think her terror of not being famous (like parents) is escalating as she ages and that's why she's writing so much and worrying about being relevant and recognized. (Instead of happy.) I'm the opposite, not better or worse. For me, the tedium of getting things out for publication is so unappealing I just...don't. But readings make my poems feel alive.

I've lost track of how many times I've sincerely and gently wished her well, peace, contentment, etc. Genuinely. But she hunts for offenses and finds them easily. If she allows me to draw and hold a boundary, however gently, something breaks for her. So I do think she feels hurt, or feels the real pain of her perceived authority not working on me any more. Reminding me so much of M's behavior at times, and maybe you're right Lighter, that PD behavior cuts across the variations.

I am calm again. Amazing to me how primal my stuff with her got. My own stuff gets in there, a lot to do with Nmom I'm sure. I don't have claws but am pretty good with words. I just felt unheard repeatedly and finally stopped placating. Sadder but wiser and overall, wiser matters more to me. Sad will pass.

hugs
Hops
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: The Lake House
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 12:03:18 PM »
The driveway has a central planting area, where the drive goes around at the house.

We cleaned out lots of the dead things.  Will clear out more.  3 pink hydrangea will go near the overgrown azaleas.....but then.... I'd like to use the beautiful big terra cotta baseboard/assorted other til s, to lay out a meditation garden.  Trails to walk.

Any ideas, ladies?
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: The Lake House
« Last post by lighter on April 22, 2026, 11:58:29 AM »
The "dummy arch", as my brother's friend calls the 💍 arch, is planted with micro clover, and 32 Creeping Jenny plants...... they'll eventually cascade over the stone retaining wall.

The clover seeds are tiny, so mixed with 3 parts sand, 1 part seeds.

Water morning and night.

The sun is burning, so cover with straw.

Water morning and night.
In a drought, so not enough water pressure for sprinklers.

All things considered....will be ok if everything grows.

We have beautiful ferns, and wild growing forest things to transplant in the rain.....this weekend?  Hopefully.

The lake's SO far down. 

The dummy arch has an old bell mounted inside....must have been in my family 100 years.  It's big and has a lovely patina.

I'll start another post regarding choices on walking meditation garden, using old tiles.
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