Pregnant N sent me away

[Ami]

Oh Hardtotrust,
 I hope you find the right woman for you,with whom you can connect and share your heart, to help each other and love each other through the pains(FOO issues--bleh) and good times.
 I hope you have the joy of children, hardtotrust. I love to see a man's softer side.It is very precious b/c it is so hard for men to get in touch with it.
 I guess ,for now, you may want to do what I am doing, preparing myself to be the best I can be, for the future, whatever it may hold.
               Love to you, hardtotrust      Ami

((((((((((Hardtotrust))))))))
 

[Ami]

Thinking of you, today, Hardtotrust!                            Love  to you, Ami

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions. I can feel that it's just so rough for you. I'm concerned that maybe she's really enjoying the attention and the right to access that she thinks she's got with you. It concerns me that she may wear you down. I hope you can see a professional psychologist soon.

I was wondering, do you have any holidays owing to you? Can you take a break and get out of her contact range for a while? Way out.  You won't really be relevant for 154 days anyway. She sounds well set up and in the event that she experiences any difficulties, you can't really help. That's what doctor's are for.

Maybe you could take off and go join a group doing a trek of Nepal for a few weeks, or go on a Group Charter deep sea fishing trip with a bunch of guys and a few kegs bottles of beer? Is there anyway to get out of your current environment for a while, but not all on your own. Leave your mobile phone with a friend or secretarial service for a few weeks so that all work business calls get answered.

Do you have anything that you've always wanted to do, but been putting it off. Most people have a little list of things, 'must do' things before we die. Cycle China or Canada. Do an exotic train journey through Spain. Go to Findhorn. Oh, I don't know  . Go camping, hiking, fishing. I'm just thinking of you finding a way to open those windows and get a fresh breeze blowing through your head. I think it was St Augustine who said "The world is like a book, and to stay in one place is like only ever reading one page." If that is all too overwhelming or impossible maybe join a gym or a club. Another thought, maybe you could get a 2nd cheapie phone and give her that number. Then block her number from your everyday phone. That way you can communicate totally at your leisure, on your terms, when you're up to it.

153 days now is a heck of long time and an enormous number of days for her to play with your head, either consciously or unconsciously. I hope you continue to care for yourself.

Where there's a will there's a way,

Papillon

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

"But your words made me feel this issue very strongly now.  Can I say something? I just wanted to belong. I have never felt I was part of something. I never belonged.
The story of the Ugly Duckling - only in my thirties I learned about the end of the story. I didn't know it most of my life. I only learned the first part, about not belonging. I guess I repressed the rest, maybe. Then I learned the end  (as in Stitch's story). That's why it was so important to me when she promised she would be my family. It was all I ever wanted. I would be part of something. Now, if there's at least my child, it may mean something, not a whole family, but someone I can be there for. To listen, to validate, to reaffirm, to care for."

I read your words to Ami. I think you're very insightful. It's my own personal belief that it's really ourselves who hold the keys to our emotional maturing, safety, wellness and recovery. I think it's all in there, comes from within us, and sometimes we just need some sound guidance and direction to connect with it. You said something in that paragraph that glared and tooted at me that you were speaking about yourself and your needs really. Lights flashing, sirens went off. It was so exciting.

 " someone I can be there for. To listen, to validate, to reaffirm, to care for.'[/i][/u]

This sentiment just seems to me to be so much for you, and so much more about you, especially at this stage. I think this maybe is something you need to do for yourself, first, before you can successfully do it for another in a healthy non-co-dependent wholesome way.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to perhaps develop further the art of doing these things for yourself. To listen to, to validate, to reaffirm and care for yourself with understanding. Maybe you thought you'd get this from her. I don't know. I think mostly we humans are too actively engaged in trying to cope and survive ourselves. It's a big enough task to be able to do this for ourselves, let alone for another. That's why having children requires preparation. So often there isn't a whole lot of thriving going on in our lives, just surviving.

It's such a huge ask of anyone else to meet my emotional needs.  For my personal and emotional needs to be met, and for me to be sure that they'll be met, I see that as my responsibility. I'm fine with that. When it's up to me I get damn specific  and practical pretty darn fast.    On the other hand, let's say you're gonna do it for me - I might just become a bit self-indulgent and lazy and demanding, after all you're doing the work. That's another topic though.

Just been thinking about you Hardtotrust and hoping you're eating healthy and sleeping well. Pizza is kinda healthy  isn't it? Well I think with extra garlic it should be. What do you think?  How important is it to get off the natural sleeping pills at the moment? Can they hurt? What are they? Valerian or some such product.

Papillon

[Ami]

Oh Papillon,
 What a wonderful post about taking care of yourself and not expecting it of  the outside world. It is just exactly where I am, right now, in my "development, Could you outline the particular steps you went through, personally, to get from Point A(enmeshed person,I assume) to Point B(responsible for self,not expecting others to'validate you).
 Any information about your journey would be very appreciated.
 I have been "underwater(living in lies and distortions) for a long time, I am" swimming to the top"(facing reality), and am almost there.
 I know it is a lot to ask and just write whatever feels right to you, if anything.
 Thanks for all your kind words to me, Papillion.                  Love to you,   Ami

[hardtotrust]

Oh Hardtotrust,
 I hope you find the right woman for you,with whom you can connect and share your heart, to help each other and love each other through the pains(FOO issues--bleh) and good times.
 I hope you have the joy of children, hardtotrust. I love to see a man's softer side.It is very precious b/c it is so hard for men to get in touch with it.
 I guess ,for now, you may want to do what I am doing, preparing myself to be the best I can be, for the future, whatever it may hold.
               Love to you, hardtotrust      Ami
((((((((((Hardtotrust))))))))

Thank you, Ami!

I feel hopeless, but I'll try to be open for the future.

Thinking of you, todat, Hardtotrust!                            Love  to you, Ami

Thank you again, Ami! I saw your post earlier, it helped me a lot.

I'm concerned that maybe she's really enjoying the attention and the right to access that she thinks she's got with you. It concerns me that she may wear you down. I hope you can see a professional psychologist soon.

You are right. She's wearing me down. What do you think about regression therapy (not past lives, only childhood)?

I was wondering, do you have any holidays owing to you? Can you take a break and get out of her contact range for a while? Way out.  You won't really be relevant for 154 days anyway.

Lol. Well, I do have some days that I can use. Problem is, I am afraid of traveling and be alone. I'll think much more about the subject if I don't get really busy. I'll get worse. But this weekend (tomorrow night) I'll go to a religious retreat, which may be interesting, because it is supposed to be inspiring, busy and full of people. I'll really think about this suggestion and try to find something compatible.

The gym suggestion is also very interesting. I like it. I already go to the gym, but I could get more serious for a time, it would be very positive.

Oh, I have already got another phone line and decided I won't give her the new number. Maybe I'll keep the old one for some time, just in case there's some information regarding the birth, but I won't take this phone everywhere, avoiding interaction.

153 days now is a heck of long time and an enormous number of days for her to play with your head, either consciously or unconsciously. I hope you continue to care for yourself.

It sure is a long time! I need to detach. Now that I'm trying NC again, I'll really try to get some closure. Since she's so calm and distant (and according to the pattern of her messages), I'm assuming she's with the other possible father of the child and he may be completely clueless. So I'll just keep distance and take legal measures in due time to learn about the truth.

I read your words to Ami. I think you're very insightful. It's my own personal belief that it's really ourselves who hold the keys to our emotional maturing, safety, wellness and recovery. I think it's all in there, comes from within us, and sometimes we just need some sound guidance and direction to connect with it. You said something in that paragraph that glared and tooted at me that you were speaking about yourself and your needs really. Lights flashing, sirens went off. It was so exciting.

Wow, thank you, Papillon. Sometimes I think I ramble too much, I am very happy with your comments. I agree with you, it is up to us to recover. Therapists and the like may only help.

Papillon, all your suggestions and ideas are just wonderful. I'll have to read these posts some times again to be able to get it all.

Just been thinking about you Hardtotrust and hoping you're eating healthy and sleeping well. Pizza is kinda healthy  isn't it? Well I think with extra garlic it should be. What do you think?  How important is it to get off the natural sleeping pills at the moment? Can they hurt? What are they? Valerian or some such product.
 

Oh, Yes! Pizza! My favorite!

No, it is not that important, right now, to get off these pills. Yes, they are made of Valerian and other plants. But they don't help too much, either. I had used a very good sleeping pill a few years ago, didn't cause side effects or dependency. Thinking about it again for a time (153 days).

What a post, Papillon! Thank you for so much attention!

((((((((((Papillon, Ami))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Hi HTT,
Just wanted to catch up on your thread and send support.
I was going to send you this quote from myself:

see a lawyer who is expert in adoptive and family and paternity issues

but then I noticed in one post you said you've been in contact with a lawyer.

Do you feel like sharing how that meeting went? Was it a meeting or just a call? Have you sat down in a lawyer's office (a lawyer with this speciality) and taken notes about your rights, and about timing, etc? Are you documenting?

Reason I return to this Lighter-like reality stuff is I hear you getting all swampy with the little communications Miss N grants you when you ask for them, and getting awash in nostalgia for the times when she did say things you wanted to hear (which obviously don't hold, because she's not an honest person).

And that worries me. If this child is yours, you will have a lifetime relationship and responsibility. You will have all the love and work of family. And much to negotiate with the mother, which you'll need to do from as strong a position as possible.

So it's crucial that you be asking this lawyer: To maximise my time and participation in this child's life if it is my child, RIGHT NOW I should be doing what?
A
B
C

To maximise my protection from liability and financial entanglement if this child is not mine, RIGHT NOW I should be doing what?
A
B
C

Until you have the answers to these questions, I don't think the emotional aspects have much importance, though I do sympathize with their power.

I would love to know the brass tacks.

With caring,
Hops
PS--I also ask because the law is so so so complex that I worry you may be setting up some circumstance that may sabotage you down the line, with your emails and calls to her. There's no way to know, as a nonlawyer.

[Ami]

Dear Hardtotrust.
 You DON"T ramble (lol). Keep talking and sharing. Many people care and are following your progress.     Love   Ami

[hardtotrust]

((((((Hopalong, Ami, Izzy)))))) Thank you. Since I'm in a hurry, I'll answer the last posts more carefully later.

Just an update.

Yesterday I tried to talk to an uncle of my ex. He was a very nice guy when I was dating my ex, oriental philosophies, tai-chi-chuan, meditation, family and so on. Always looked very pleasant and helpful. He is married to her aunt.

Tried to talk to him, the only answers were "I don't know anything" and "I don't know what to say to you". Not a friendly word. Not a good wish. Not something like "I hope things get better and you two get along for the sake of the baby" or "I'll talk to her to see if everything is fine". No care.

These people are really strange. To them everything is fine the way it is.

I am sick, really sick, sick, sick.

I feel like going crazy. Everytime it gets worse in my life. Everytime I try to start again, to do something right, it's always the same. In the end, after being used, lied to, conned, they still manage to make me look like the wrong one, the crazy one. And, yes, I am really getting crazy with so much evil.

And they go on with their lives, unaffected, leaving all the debris behind.

[Ami]

Oh Hardto trust,
  I am sorry you are going through such pain. I really am. It must be one of the hardest things you have ever endured. My heart goes out to you!                       Love    Ami


((((((((((Hardtotrust))))))))))

[hardtotrust]

Thank you, Ami. I really need all help right now.

I feel like I have died last year. Just a hollow shell that is going through the motions.

[gratitude28]

Hard,
I have not read through the five pages after your original post here, so forgive me if I am repeating what someone else has expressed/advised...

I would leave this woman alone completely. I would go to a lawyer, have him require her to have a paternity test as soon as the baby is born. If the child is yours, I would have the lawyer draw up agreements immediately for the future care of the baby.

I feel very sad that a child was brought into this mess. But, if the child is not yours, I think you should stay out of the situation. This woman sounds insane, and I am afraid that even if you are a nice, stable sort of fellow, you will have very little influence in the child's life.

Hard, I think it is time to drop all communication with the entire family, unless it is through legal channels.

Take care and keep posting to let us know how things are progressing.

Beth

[Ami]

Dear Hardtotrust,
  I KNOW what it is like to feel like  a hollow shell. I am there,also. I have to believe that I AM worthwhile,even though my childhood messages told me otherwise.
 I think you are at this type of a pivotal point,also.
 I am struggling, with you, to come up from a dark place, which was there BEFORE I lost my son. I bet that you were in a dark place before your pregnant N.
 I am trying to find love for myself and think that love is the answer to our dilemma's,. For me, my biggest 'problem" is that I don't  love myself ,enough. My other problems arise from this. Even Scott's death could have been prevented if I could have left my marriage,I think. I will never know for sure,of course.
However, we need to love ourselves, hardto trust,IMO.What do you think?          Hugs Friend   ,   Ami

[hardtotrust]

Thanks, Beth, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks. Your advice is very realistic and that's exactly what I need now. Right now I'm trying to accept the truth about what you said, that I'll have very little influence in the child's life. The way the ex N controls all perceptions of the family confirms that. I really need to start acting more rationally.

Thank you, Ami. Thank you for relating, for sharing. Thank you. You're completely right about the dark place I was in BEFORE the pregnant N. Sometimes, when I forget a little about her, I notice that.

I agree that we have to love ourselves, but how? In the last years I have been able to remember the image of my mother looking at me with the most disgusting face. The feeling is incredibly painful. It is something strongly imprinted. Of course now I know rationally that her face was about herself, how she felt inside. But that doesn't help much.

I'm not sure which religion you follow, but this little book points to some interesting things: http://www.amazon.com/Root-Rejection-Bondage-Experience-Acceptance/dp/0446691143/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204913476&sr=1-36

If it has nothing to do with your religious point of view, please just forget it. Don't want to push anything.

I'm really paying attention to the things you said, Ami. I'll go to my retreat tonight and I'll come back to your post.

[gratitude28]

((((((((((((((Hard))))))))))

I am not sure how long it has been that you have realized your mother did not love you? If you are new to that idea, you may be trying to fill that space you are left with.

Your best bet is to be alone for a while, read everything you can about Narcissism, decide how you want your life to be, make plans to create your new life.

No girls!!!!!!! Yet, anyways -  until you are happy inside and can be what a partner should be, because only then will you be able to have the sort of fulfilling relationship you deserve.

Take care!!

Beth