Escalating situation with N mother, really need help

[glennis1953]

Oh, and I forgot to write...

Often, she would ask what my husband and I were going to give him and then she would buy the same thing and made sure he opened her's first....leaving me with no "special" gift to give him. I learned my lesson on that issue pretty quickly.

My mother would do this. One year my sister-in-law bought our stepfather a pair of slippers for Christmas. After seeing them, Mother went out and bought the very same pair. This pattern continued until we started lying about what we're buying him, so she couldn't do that.

Mother is very tricky, but I'm trickier, from long years of dealing with her. She calls me "secretive." Of course I am! Being open and honest with her has never been a good thing. If I point that out to her, she says, "Well, I don't know what you mean."

One question, though. Does she still have contact with your son? If so, you may want to think about what her toxicity could be doing to him.

[Anonymous]

Hi Glennis,

We cut off contact with her completely about 3 weeks ago (including with my son).  It became clear that he was not safe alone with her and because of her anger towards me and my husband, we could not longer go along to supervise.  That is what started this recent campaign of terror against us....threats to report us as unfit, a phone campaign to family, friends and ministers at church that I am crazy, an alcoholic, drug addict, etc, etc which thankfully, no one believed.  She went so far as to have an attorney write a letter to us on her behalf asking for mediation so that she can see my son.  

We have been trying to find our own attorney which has been difficult...our first choice is unavailable and she referred us to someone who has been out of the office all week.  We hope to hear from him on Monday.  We have about 45 minutes of absolutely VILE, threatening and clearly unbalanced (screaming, cursing, etc) voice messages from her and also a stack of similiar emails.  

Last week, she came to my house (she had been limiting herself to calling and emailing but we have blocked her calls on our home phone) and I spoke to her through the door and told her to leave or I would call the police.  (She tried to push and shove me out the door of my own home the last time we let her in the house....that was when we cut contact completely).  We have not had any contact from her since then until today, I received an email.  

I have had several people in the community tell me, just acquaintances really, that her public behavior is becoming more and more bizarre and disturbing.  Several people have asked me if she has a drug problem.  In each and every case, the person gently expressed concern for her and she immediately cut contact with them.  

I have to say that I am so glad that her public persona is deteriorating.  Before, it was so hidden and only displayed to immediate family, that no one would believe us when we tried to tell them.  We got a lot of "lectures" from people about how we just needed to get along, etc.  

I don't know where the legal system will take us but the attorneys I have spoke to tell me that with the voice mails, etc, it would be very unusual for a judge to force visitation with my son.  That is my daily prayer now. The attorney will be a huge drain on our limited financial resources (starting two new businesses is scary on it's own) but we will do whatever we need to do to protect my son and ourselves.  

Just coming here to post has helped me so much.  Not many people I know have ever experienced anything like this and I am sure it seems a bit unreal to them.  

Thanks again!  I appreciate so much everyone's posts and comments.

[onlyrenting]

Hi, i'm new to your board and the N personality.

I left home when I was 18 because I didn't get along with my mother.
2yrs later I got married. I have been married now 26 yrs this month.

I have been reading about difficult mothers and mine has a personality disorder according to my sisters. I was pushed out of the house 2weeks after my 18th birthday. I have spoken very little to my mother over the 26 years. sad that I don't have the support of a mother but she was so toxic to me I made a decision not to have her in my life. My 3 sisters say she does have problems but they like the financial help and put up with what ever she dishes out.

So I escape this mother problem but have been with my husband who is an N personality.
I guess he is not as severe as some but just the same he  comes out of no where with lies, he can be so charming then sets my 12 yr old and myself up for feelings we suddenly have made him feel like he needs to move away.
A few weeks ago I went to Dallas (I live in CA) for a job interview and he got so offended he said he wanted a cotton swab from my daughter's month  for DNA testing.
I had her stay with a friend after he's telling her he was not her father. She was so destroyed.

The more I have learned in just the last week I have been able to see how to look for these signs.  my husband has been ACTING like he is engageing with the family better.I have not been giving  him his N supply, he must be getting worried I have learned something I didn't know before.

before this last week before I started reading the message boards I found a Doctors report that was done from a Workerscomp evaluation saying his was Narsistic. I didn't know what it really meant only he was selfish. It wasn't until I looked further on the message board did I discover I have jumped into a bigger fire than the one I left from.

I never wanted to run from my problems and willing to stay and take responsiblity for my bad choice. My Husband is physicaly hurt and I wouldn't strand him when he can't work. But now I can move on and accept that he has mental issuies too. I don't have to keep forgiving him thinking he is on alot of medicine and just angry at his situation.  
I undertand he uses my kindness but things are changing and I may leave him in California if he can't get a grip.

Thanks for all those that have shared it has changed me.

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

Just thought I would share that I have talked to three attorney's now who all say the same thing....my mother has no grounds for visitation with my son unless I approve.  They all say the worst she can do is report us to Children's Protective Services.  The attorney I spoke with today says he works with that agency a lot and that frankly, they are overworked with legit cases and do not waste much time on crazy people.  Although of course, they would have to investigate, he feels it would quickly be put to rest.

He said to continue to ignore her...he knows the attorney that sent us the letter on her behalf.  He says that he believes the man was well-intentioned, having only one side of the story.  At this point, he does not feel we need to do anything other than to continue to ignore her, call the police if she shows up again and that he will go with us to seek an emergency protective order should she threaten violence or if we feel threatened (like if she repeatedly shows up at the house).  He says we can do that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

He does say I have a case against her for slander and defamation of character and he would be glad to represent us if we choose to pursue that but as no one has paid any attention to her, I don't feel like I want to do that at this point.  

She has stopped calling...well, she called once today.  She sounded terrible and said she had been sick (in a message, I do not answer her calls) and said she thinks she is going to die but she knows I do not care about that and don't think I am going to get one cent of her money when she does die.  (Such a laugh....I'm sure it's all been spent on men and plastic surgery).  "You are the most pathetic person I have ever known....sitting in church on Sunday and pretending to be a Christian.  The truth will be known...I will go to my death bed telling people the truth about you.  You can't ignore me forever.  I won't go away.  Everyone knows what a liar you are."  

Her biggest fear seems to be getting old......anyone else experience this with N females in particular?  She has been doing anything she can to look and feel younger.  

At any rate, thank you for listening to me through some of my darkest days.  I feel much stronger and am focusing on making this a happy holiday season for my son.  I was actually able to laugh at her message today.

[onlyrenting]

Hi and sorry you have a mother who wants so much attention from you and wants to take what you love (your Kids) from you.

I have little to do with my mother but I have sisters who get money from her so they put up with her.

I left home at 18 and maybe it was the best thing not to let her poision in my life. The way she gets back at me is to inject her poision into my sisters and there kids.
They will give me the silent treatment or just be cold to me and my family if she comes to visit them.
I have seen her maybe 10 times in 26 years sometimes my sisters tell me she will be in town so I will come by and leave soon after. I will say I love you and she is silent.
my aunt (her younger sister )let me know my mother was very mean to her too.
She tells me when I was growing up she could see my mother treated me mean but she was afraid to get involved.

My aunt thought she was helping so, she being the devils advocate tried to get us all to talk about how we all had hurt feelings.
We all said our peace but she was not hearing anything I had to say. A few days later I got a letter in the mail saying the same old thing, nothing has changed.
how could you have so little to do with someone but still they hold onto what ever it is, so they can stay mean to you forever.

I don't know if my mother is an N, but I married an N and figure I had good training from her on how  I deal with my Husband.
I just don't know why her toxic posion is not worth my time but I take it from my husband.
I'm trying to sort  this all out and if I can understand my childhood a little better maybe  someday I can break free of other pains in my life.

I have studied Palm reading and know I have a very strong sence of wright, wrong,guilt and what happens in my enviroment. I consider myself a very nice and patient person wanting to do the right thing but sometimes maybe this is not always the Best thing. Maybe the enviroment says People have dreams and hopes and should stay married for the kids and my guilt overrides any sence I should have to say otherwise.

Your mother may need help but we all know she will never say it is her.
She will not likley leave you alone  until someone else comes in her life
to focus on.
I think I might take the lawsuit up for slander so maybe she will have a reason to back down from her lawsuit.
She may not let her lawsuit go because she thinks she is right and wants control over you.
Ns are big on lies and tell them over and over until everyone believes them.  you're dealing with your child and it may give strength to the authorities  your belief she has Issuies. ( you can always drop the lawsuit)

Good Luck

[bunny]

Just thought I would share that I have talked to three attorney's now who all say the same thing....my mother has no grounds for visitation with my son unless I approve.

I'm glad you heard it from attorneys. There used to be some dumb idea of "grandparents right to visitation" but that's been dropped. Obviously parents should have final authority over who gets access to their children.

he will go with us to seek an emergency protective order should she threaten violence or if we feel threatened (like if she repeatedly shows up at the house).  He says we can do that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

GOOD.
 

She has stopped calling...well, she called once today.  She sounded terrible and said she had been sick (in a message, I do not answer her calls) and said she thinks she is going to die but she knows I do not care about that and don't think I am going to get one cent of her money when she does die.  (Such a laugh....I'm sure it's all been spent on men and plastic surgery).  "You are the most pathetic person I have ever known....sitting in church on Sunday and pretending to be a Christian.  The truth will be known...I will go to my death bed telling people the truth about you.  You can't ignore me forever.  I won't go away.  Everyone knows what a liar you are."

She stopped calling except for this doozy of a phone call? This woman is a total fruitcake. She's paranoid, delusional, etc. All this stuff about "the truth" is a signal of paranoia. Anyone in law enforcement, social services, etc., will be onto her immediately. They've heard this type of ranting so many times.

Keep us posted because I don't think she's going away quite yet.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I think you should consider going to the police and filing a report. Have a history of her threats and behavior recorded.  Any form of protection for you is important.

I had to call the police on my Nfather this past summer after my son's car was vandalized.  We couldn't prove that he did it, but HIGHLY suspected him.  It was the hardest thing I had to do, but ultimately was the best decision.  It scared him so much, that we haven't had any problems since.  I know that in his wildest dreams, he never would thought that I would have enough nerve to do that to him.

It's very important to protect you and your family.  My Nparents are getting nuttier and scarier as they've gotten older-early 70's. They see the end coming and have started spiraling downward at a faster pace.  Death is something they can't control.

I've been estranged from my parents for almost 3 years.  At first, you have to go through all the stages of grief and work through your anger and bitterness and just disbelief of the whole situation.  It gets easier, but never completely goes away.  In my situation, I felt either it was them or me, and I chose me.  I know that they are NOT NORMAL and somehow that makes it easier for me to forgive them.  I felt in order for me to have happiness in my life, I had to do that.  It's a very difficult process, but basically only just a decision.

I wish you strength, wisdom and courage.  This place has been so helpful to me.  Good luck.               Dinny

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny,

I'm not sure I have figured out how to use the quote feature.  Maybe this will work!

She stopped calling except for this doozy of a phone call?

Sounds silly....but we are down from about 10 messages per day to one this week.  Progress, I think!

I am so thankful to have found this board.  NO ONE else could possibly understand.  

Off to the therapist now......

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone,

My post regarding my conversation with my aunt disappeared after the hacking but apparently she had a conversation with my mother about her behavior (good for her!  I didn't think she would).  She must have also encouraged her to find a therapist.  

First I got copies of several old emails (back from the summer months when my mother was behaving herself somewhat) that were "nice" to me....she had forwarded them to my aunt.  I guess to prove I am lying.  On the copies she sent to me, she included notes like "Did you happen to mention this to your aunt when you LYING to her???  I didn't think so."  Of course, those were all old emails so I am not sure what her point was.  

Then I got a couple of phone messages (again on my cell phone...can't block her from that one) and said she had seen a therapist.  It could have only been one visit because it was just a day or two after I talked to my aunt.  My mother said the therapist had figured it all out....what MY problems are (no mention of hers)....rattled on about "displaced anger" and said she forgave me for all the ugly things I had done and all the lies I had told.   In subsequent messages, she said she is again seeking mediation and doesn't know if she would "push it far enough to go to court" but she is "not going to go away."   She said "This whole mess is of your making.  I have seen you at your worst.  You are the only one who can fix this...with my help of course."  

I am just trying to let this stuff roll off but I do have to say, as the holidays approach rapidly, and I think of her alone for the first time in her life, I am fearful of some sort of ugly confrontation.  My husband really wants to stay home for Christmas (I was ready to pack up and head to a relatives far away) and I want to accomodate him because he has been so supportive of me through this whole mess.  But I am becoming very uneasy and yes, I would say, fearful.

[Anonymous]

<<<On the copies she sent to me, she included notes like "Did you happen to mention this to your aunt when you LYING to her???  I didn't think so.">>>

You could always print this out for your aunt.
 

<<<My mother said the therapist had figured it all out....what MY problems are (no mention of hers)....rattled on about "displaced anger" and said she forgave me for all the ugly things I had done and all the lies I had told.   In subsequent messages, she said she is again seeking mediation and doesn't know if she would "push it far enough to go to court" but she is "not going to go away."   She said "This whole mess is of your making.  I have seen you at your worst.  You are the only one who can fix this...with my help of course.">>>

It is crazy that she wants 'mediation' when she spits out all this hatred. I doubt the therapist said you had displaced anger. I don't believe a word of it.


<<<My husband really wants to stay home for Christmas (I was ready to pack up and head to a relatives far away) and I want to accomodate him because he has been so supportive of me through this whole mess.  But I am becoming very uneasy and yes, I would say, fearful.>>>

Would your husband understand that you are fearful and therefore allow the family to travel this year?

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny,

You are so nice to always respond to me.  Thank you!  

I know that if I make an issue of it, my husband would do whatever I want.  However, when I first learned about this personality disorder last year at this time and did a lot soul searching on my own behavior and actions, I realized that I had been very unfair to my husband.  We have always stayed home for Christmas.  We have never been with his family (11 years of marriage).  I always said (to everyone, including my family that is out of town) that we would stay home for Christmas and whoever wanted to visit us here was always welcome.  But last year I realized that wasn't the real reason.  The real reason was that I knew what my mother would put me through if I ever went away for Christmas or any other holiday and I just couldn't bear it.  When I first became self employed and could arrange my holiday schedule to own liking, I remember having a major anxiety attack that I no longer had a built in excuse for staying home (couldn't get off work).  I felt really guilty about it all.  

So this year, I thought it would be best to go to my husband's family for Christmas....get out of town and also try make up for not being with them the past decade.  But my husband said he really, really wanted to stay home.  I know that he will do whatever but I would really like for my husband to get to do what he wants to for the first time ever...he's never complained.  He's always been understanding.  It's kind of funny...it's all backwards.  I finally say let's go see your folks and he says he wants to stay home!  

I took my son to church tonight for Children's Choir practice...we've been going every Wed night for 5 years and there is a meal afterwards.  The kids usually go upstairs to practice and the adults visit in Fellowship Hall and then we all eat together.  But tonight the kids practiced in the sanctuary.  I stayed in FH as usual.  When my son came to dinner, he said he saw my Mom...that she had sat in the sanctuary and watched them practice and spoke to him afterwards.  He mentioned several things she said she would give him for Christmas and said she wanted to take him to a movie.  She has NEVER been at church on a Wed. night (including Wed nights we were out of town and asked her to take him to practice for us...she refused).  I know of no reason for her to be there except to talk to my son.  I was sitting with my back to the door but a friend sitting across from me said she saw her walk through Fellowship Hall and leave by that door...again, no reason to do that, if she was in the sanctuary.  There are tons of exits between the sanctuary and FH.  

My friend asked if I was ok and I said I just wasn't sure how to handle situations like that.  She said she thought I did great....I just said "sounds good" or something lame like that to my son and he ran off to sit with his friends.  I have no intention of seeing her during the holidays and I have no intention of letting her see my son alone during the holidays or any other time for that matter.  But I feel so uncomfortable when handling situations like this (just don't know what to say to my son).  

You are so right, Bunny, about spewing hatred while asking for mediation....I told my aunt the same thing.  I told her that I had not one email or message from my Mom that was even slightly conciliatory in nature...that they all were very ugly, although she requested mediation in most of them,  and it seemed a very strange way to try to encourage me to go to mediation with her.   In fact, in one message she said "If you refuse to go to mediation, people are going to think that is strange and will turn against you.  If you go to mediation, the truth will come out and everyone will know you are a liar and they will turn against you."  How bizarre??!!  

My father says perhaps it is time to find a new church but I LOVE my church....I have a very close knit group of friends there and my son is friends with their children and those people form the center of our social lives and also my support system.  We vacation together, etc.  My mother has been a very irregular church goer and rarely gets involved in any activities.  I feel like she is showing up now just to annoy me.  

Oh well, I've rambled on again.  I just keep praying for relief from her and her conniving ways.  I suppose the only way to really get free is to move away from here but again, I love my home and thought I would always be here...I've just opened a new store....so many reasons to stay and only one BIG reason to leave.

[Anonymous]

If you traveled, it wouldn't be out of selfishness but out of self-protection. Maybe your H has assessed the situation and isn't fearful -  but can he guarantee your safety? Your mom sounds like a stalker.
   
In her distortions, "mediation" means you will be punished by authority figures. As a paranoid, she believes you've committed some crimes and that the authorities will take care of you. It's delusional.
 
She's stalking you and your son. It's a question of safety at this point. You can determine how dangerous she is. I would say that she is not a safe person at all.

I really feel for you, having this mental patient (aka mother) obsessed with you. It really is horrible.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Why should you have to make drastic changes to your life over a crazy person like this??

I would seriously consider a restraining order against this woman. She's unpredictable.

[onlyrenting]

Hi, I wrote on mother problems around december 5th. You had writen about your mother and how she wanted to involve herself with your son.

I mentioned you may need to slap the lawsuit because she thinks she is DOING THE RIGHT THING. I see now others are saying to do something to protect yourself.

Her going to your chruch knowing you love your chruch, is not good. She may not only try and get to your son but will talk to those in the chruch to get her toxic views accross. I WOULD LOVE TO THINK CHRUCH WOULD TURN HER AROUND AND MAYBE SOFTEN HER HEART.

CONSIDER THE SLANDER LAWSUIT SO SHE HAS A LEGAL REASON NOT TO TALK ABOUT YOU. PUT SOME FEAR IN HER ABOUT HER ACTIONS.

I'M sorry I have mother problems too. I wish I had a mother who cared about what happens to me,but I don't. I know she would make my life unbearable.

I worry about your son because he wants a g-mother, but he is her ticket to get back at you.  

Keep strong  onlyrenting

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny and onlyrenting,

You know....you guys are so great.  I had an appointment with my therapist yesterday after I wrote all of that.  I described what happened at church.  He immediately noticed that she did not confront me although she walked through the room.  He said to me "Don't you see?  SHE is afraid of YOU. "  And then he asked me to describe why I was so fearful and you know, I just couldn't do it.....I couldn't explain it.  I didn't really think she would be so bold as to take my son.  I was fearful that she might but truly, I don't think she would.  

He said he believes I am not fearful of her but rather of my own emotions and reactions and I think he is right.  He said "What if she had started something with you in Fellowship Hall?  Wouldn't you rather her show her true colors in public?  Isn't that better, so everyone can see her behavior, instead of going behind your back telling lies about you?  

It was a good session (lots of tears though) and I am feeling a lot stronger.  I feel a lot stronger.  We are looking forward to the family Christmas Eve service at church with our friends and then joining some of them for dinner.  If she shows up, she shows up.  We will be sure to fill the pew early with lots of friends so there is no room for her.  Our friends have vowed to completely surround us.  Christmas morning will be on OUR schedule for the first time ever...and breakfast will be a festive but simple affair so I can enjoy myself as well.  I will turn the cell phones off and if she shows up, I will call the police.  

She left a message for me that while she observed the children practicing, my son was "not himself", was "withdrawn, kept himself apart from the group, did not smile and barely mouthed the words to the songs."  When I saw him, he was in a gang of boys all of whom were about to bounce off the walls.  But I did email our choir director and asked if he observed any problem with my son that night.

He emailed "As for Wednesday, I noticed absolutely nothing unusual with XXX.  He was doing just great.  In fact, I was quite proud of how well he was doing!  I did not notice anything that I remember about him "keeping himself apart from the group."
 
And by the way, he is such a great kid - I know that you and your husband are so proud of him - and you should be!"

You see....she just makes this junk up as she goes along!!!  

Thanks for ALL the support.   I think I can do this!!