Making New Friends

[Meh]

Well I had an adventure in making friends today, posted about it.       I did something out of my comfort zone and it was almost a car accident.. but still a good break from my rut.

[Hopalong]

BRAVO on that, Boat!
It's all practice, but you finally just went out and had yourself some human company.
Next time just tell him, I have to hold your phone if you're driving. Done. (And stick to it...
ain't worth dying for...)

So happy to hear about that. Friendship is the best. I really miss my gay-guy friend
I had in grad school.

Hops

[Twoapenny]

Well I had an adventure in making friends today, posted about it.       I did something out of my comfort zone and it was almost a car accident.. but still a good break from my rut.

Well done, G   Sorry, have neglected this thread as bit - other things going on

Just wanted to post one of my thoughts/realisations.  For a long time now I've noticed that when someone asks me to do something I don't want to do or can't do I get angry and defensive because they didn't know I wouldn't want/be able to do it (if you see what I mean).  I didn't understand that, people can't read minds and until they ask they won't know so my reactions didn't make sense to me.  I also can't/won't show this anger (because I know it's not rational) but feel I have to come up with 'good enough' excuse to get out of it, which I often don't.  So I end up doing things and seeing people that I don't want to, simply because I don't understand why I feel the way I do and don't know how to cope with it.

Anyway - I've kept watching myself in this cycle and I've come to the conclusion that I'm so frightened/worried/anxious not to displease anyone that I think the fact that I might need to (by saying no) makes me feel angry - like I'm being forced to do something that feels terribly wrong.  Sounds silly, but I think that's the key to this particular problem.  Need to keep reminding myself that (a) not everyone reacts to a no the way my mum used to and (b) if they do it's their problem to deal with not mine.

Next stage to work on in the 'being able to interact with people' category.  Just wanted to share

[Hopalong]

I'm so frightened/worried/anxious not to displease anyone that I think the fact that I might need to (by saying no) makes me feel angry - like I'm being forced

What a fantastic insight, Tupp.
This will release more and more internal pressure...
oh I just love it. Mature insights dazzle me.

Bravo bravo!

hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm so frightened/worried/anxious not to displease anyone that I think the fact that I might need to (by saying no) makes me feel angry - like I'm being forced

What a fantastic insight, Tupp.
This will release more and more internal pressure...
oh I just love it. Mature insights dazzle me.

Bravo bravo!

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops.  Do you find you slip between the old you and the new you?  I just wondered, I find I do really well on my new healthier path for a while and then I slip back to my old habits.  Takes a while, then I realise what I'm doing, then I pull myself back out again.  Also realised my need for control is still really strong, but I dress it up as other things now.  Need to be kinder on myself, I think, and my friends.  I can be very judgemental, I'm trying to avoid doing that now.

Re your suggestions about groups - I think I may have found something via a campaign group I've been doing a little volunteering for.  People of a similar mindset, but with practical tasks to do.  So far, so good!

[Hopalong]

Absolutely, Tupp...I slip back.
I do find that my lapses (which I don't expect to ever be entirely gone, perfection ain't possible) are shorter than they used to be.

I'll get lost in my own forest but I usually can see the light streaming, and still know it's there.
Sometimes there's no path but blundering will get me back to light anyway. That's grace. Or luck.

I know what you mean about the critical self-talk, and yes you DO need to be kinder to yourself!

I think being judgmental (which I was steeped in from my upbringing) is very similar to the feelings you have when you say No.
It's like...I want to recoil from or reject or hide from this person, and I can't just go and DO THAT, if it's what I sense is good for me.
I have to have a REASON. And it needs to be a big one.

On go the robes and out comes my inner judge.

Bleaaaggggghhhh. One of my least-favorite parts.

Ain't nobody I judge more harshly than myself though.
But that's too painful. So it's easier to distract myself from my own struggle to accept myself
and get busy judging, so I can focus on how I'm not accepting somebody else.

Once I spot it, I do thwack it as hard as I can.
And it doesn't dominate my thinking.

But when I feel unjustly treated...as by my Nboss...oh if he knew the thoughts I had
about him. (Of course, that wouldn't really matter to him, since Ns are impervious.)

I know how toxic it feels, to feel judgmental. And so I'm very very grateful that
it isn't often and it doesn't drive me. I know during my younger years when it did,
that it was a protective measure. Didn't make it any prettier inside, though.

Every single time I have a judgmental thought, if I just replace it with compassion,
it's gone. Poof.

xo
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Twoapenny, I've just read your post about your sometimes reaction to being asked to do something.  I completely get that.  My father's strong reactions have governed so much in my life. I was recently trying to explain to my child how my father would hold me responsible for other people's actions and it had a power over me generating huge amounts of anxiety and often angry bursts.  E.g., is a stranger did something that in my youth would cause my father to rage at me, I can find myself getting angry. For years people be flummoxed by my reaction, telling me it had nothing to do with me. I was oblivious to what unconscious forces were at work until fairly recently.

I'm so glad you can now see that you are reacting to your mother and not the person standing in front of you. What a great relief.

[Twoapenny]

Absolutely, Tupp...I slip back.
I do find that my lapses (which I don't expect to ever be entirely gone, perfection ain't possible) are shorter than they used to be.

I'll get lost in my own forest but I usually can see the light streaming, and still know it's there.
Sometimes there's no path but blundering will get me back to light anyway. That's grace. Or luck.

I know what you mean about the critical self-talk, and yes you DO need to be kinder to yourself!

I think being judgmental (which I was steeped in from my upbringing) is very similar to the feelings you have when you say No.
It's like...I want to recoil from or reject or hide from this person, and I can't just go and DO THAT, if it's what I sense is good for me.
I have to have a REASON. And it needs to be a big one.

On go the robes and out comes my inner judge.

Bleaaaggggghhhh. One of my least-favorite parts.

Ain't nobody I judge more harshly than myself though.
But that's too painful. So it's easier to distract myself from my own struggle to accept myself
and get busy judging, so I can focus on how I'm not accepting somebody else.

Once I spot it, I do thwack it as hard as I can.
And it doesn't dominate my thinking.

But when I feel unjustly treated...as by my Nboss...oh if he knew the thoughts I had
about him. (Of course, that wouldn't really matter to him, since Ns are impervious.)

I know how toxic it feels, to feel judgmental. And so I'm very very grateful that
it isn't often and it doesn't drive me. I know during my younger years when it did,
that it was a protective measure. Didn't make it any prettier inside, though.

Every single time I have a judgmental thought, if I just replace it with compassion,
it's gone. Poof.

xo
Hops

Hey Hops, thank you for that.  It helps to know that others also have to keep pushing and tweaking and getting back on the wagon.

I completely understand what you say about replacing judgement with compassion.  I think my sticky point there is my difficulty with boundaries and my co-dependency stuff.  If I understand or empathise, I also feel I need to leap in with both feet and solve everyone's situations.  I've had to really work on that but I think I'm getting the hang of it now.  I have found more recently that I am able to empathise with my mum, which I never thought I'd be able to do.  But I wonder if I've got past enough of my own stuff now to be getting to a point where it doesn't hurt as much and I can see the terribly abused and frightened child that she was that grew into this terribly abusive and vindictive woman.  I have always been frightened of getting caught in my mum's web again, and being very critical and judgemental of her helped to stop that from happening and kept me focused on what I needed to do for me, instead of thinking about her.  But with other people I think it's more like you say, I focus on their imperfections to avoid accepting my own.  So trying to be more accepting in general is high on my list now and, as you say, feeling able to say no without needing to have a huge reason or justification for doing so.  Thank you xx

[Twoapenny]

Twoapenny, I've just read your post about your sometimes reaction to being asked to do something.  I completely get that.  My father's strong reactions have governed so much in my life. I was recently trying to explain to my child how my father would hold me responsible for other people's actions and it had a power over me generating huge amounts of anxiety and often angry bursts.  E.g., is a stranger did something that in my youth would cause my father to rage at me, I can find myself getting angry. For years people be flummoxed by my reaction, telling me it had nothing to do with me. I was oblivious to what unconscious forces were at work until fairly recently.

I'm so glad you can now see that you are reacting to your mother and not the person standing in front of you. What a great relief.

Hi GS, yes, I completely understand what you are saying.  I have a book, 'Healing the Shame That Binds You' by John Bradshaw, and it's the sort of self help book I find I get very different things from when I read it at different times, presumably because what I'm working on has changed and different things jump out at me.  At the minute I'm finding his stuff about projection very useful, he talks about other people placing their shame onto someone else (usually an adult to a child in the scenarios he's talking about).  It's really resonating at the minute, I can see how much of my mum's unresolved issues I simply took on as my own and just absorbed, and have now lived forty years by.  It's very strange, but a situation can occur and I have an immediate reaction and it's definitely my mum reacting to it, not me.  So I'm really working now on trying to have my own responses (sounds daft, I know).  So I really understand about what say about reactions you have seeming out of context to others, they are experiencing it in a different way to you.  It is odd how we can not notice things for so many years and then suddenly they're right in front of us.

[Gaining Strength]

I LOVE that book. I used to read it almost every year, date my underlines and notes. Similar to you I found that different things jumped out at me each time I read it. In the late 80s, John Bradshaw had a television show. At the time I was involved with Al Anon having discovered my mother's alcoholism. Those two things were important openings into my journey. From Bradshaw I learned that I was indeed operating out of toxic shame but it would take me years and years to a) understand the depths of how debilitating that has been for me and b) to figure out what to do about it.

Your last sentence is right on. It never ceases to amaze me.

[Twoapenny]

I LOVE that book. I used to read it almost every year, date my underlines and notes. Similar to you I found that different things jumped out at me each time I read it. In the late 80s, John Bradshaw had a television show. At the time I was involved with Al Anon having discovered my mother's alcoholism. Those two things were important openings into my journey. From Bradshaw I learned that I was indeed operating out of toxic shame but it would take me years and years to a) understand the depths of how debilitating that has been for me and b) to figure out what to do about it.

Your last sentence is right on. It never ceases to amaze me.

Ah yes, the doing part is so much harder than the understanding part!  A friend of mine says she found therapy quite destructive - someone takes you into a room, shows you your family are dysfunctional, shows you you're dysfunctional, shows you you married your husband because you have issues with your dad, took on your job because it satisfied some of your dysfunctional needs, raised your kids a certain way to get back at your mum - but then can't do anything about fixing any of it.  I can see what she means; I feel better as a person since getting out of my family situation but the loneliness and uncertainty (not to mention the pain) along the way have been truly testing (and still are, at times).  Sometimes it feels like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

But I think we all know if we feel unhappy at our core, I suppose different people deal with it in different ways and we all seem to be the sort that would rather uncover the grim stuff and deal with it, however hard it might be.

[Twoapenny]

Just one of my stream of consciousness rambles about something I noticed today and wanted to write down:

Today is quite busy in an at home way.  We've been out a lot this week so lots of jobs at home haven't been done.  I'm very tired, as is my boy, and I feel a bit under the weather.  We've new bedroom furniture being delivered this afternoon so I've been cleaning and clearing out the old stuff ready for the new stuff to come.

I've been moaning and complaining to myself, endlessly berating everyone in my head, really being negative and almost causing arguments with myself, if that makes any sense.  I actually stopped myself and said outloud "What the f are you doing, Tup?"

What I think is - there are lots of imperfections today, as lots hasn't been done.  This, I always feel, leaves me feeling open to attack - if it's not perfect, someone's going to moan.  This, in turn, I think makes me start berating everyone else, because everything would be perfect if other people helped me.  That in turn makes me feel lonely and unloved and then it just excalates into this whole downward spiral.  I don't think I'm thinking any of that on a conscious level, it just sort of feels like that's what's going on.  It sort of links back to my earlier post as well, on how I have to criticise others because I feel bad when I say no.  I think this is the same thing - I feel shockingly ashamed because things aren't perfect and then lash out at everyone else as if it's their fault (only I'm just lashing out in my head, I'm not actually talking to anyone).

So this focus, I suppose, is to stop letting myself feel ashamed for just being normal?

Just writing it down before I forget it!

[Gaining Strength]

Twoapenny, I could have written that myself!  It makes me giddy to see I am not alone. I really should be horrified that you are having such a terrible experience - it is truly horrible - but I am finding that by "witnessing" that crazy process and identifying it as coming from previous woundings, the behaviour is beginning to shift, ever so incrementally. Bit by bit, it is shifting.

Thank you for sharing. It touches me deeply.

[Hopalong]

For some reason I'm remembering some woman from years ago (but not the exact situation) who taught me something, or who demonstrated...radically befriending yourself.

Maybe it was in a workshop, or something.
But she was modeling how literally and effortfully (at first) she would pause about situations and people, and always, always, check in with herself and respect what her own needs were. After some very intentional laborious and jerky practice for a long time, it became second nature.

And then she went around looking serene not because she was a good actor, but because it was real. She was at peace in her own company, and loved other people, but was fine either way. So she weathered a lot of fears and disappointments way way easier.

xo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Twoapenny, I could have written that myself!  It makes me giddy to see I am not alone. I really should be horrified that you are having such a terrible experience - it is truly horrible - but I am finding that by "witnessing" that crazy process and identifying it as coming from previous woundings, the behaviour is beginning to shift, ever so incrementally. Bit by bit, it is shifting.

Thank you for sharing. It touches me deeply.

GS, thanks, I'm really glad it has hel[ped, it's what I like about this board, that we can pool our resources and help each other out.  It's funny, isn't it, how you suddenly notice something and, as you say, once you've seen it, it starts to move.

I am making a really concerted effort now NOT TO BE LIKE MY MUM!  She is so meticulous (and I want to say at this point I'm not criticising that in anyone else, we're all different, but I am naturally a scatty mare), she makes endless lists and everything is always done.  She never forgets anything, never fails to think ahead, never runs out of anything, has never had to use kitchen towel in the bathroom because she ran out of loo roll.  And I can constantly hear the endless nickpicking in my head of every single thing I haven't done or haven't done properly and it does make me feel constantly ashamed.  And I didn't realise before that I felt so ashamed about not doing perfectly a load of stuff that isn't important to me.  I've already done the important things this morning - I made my son a good breakfast (we used to get a cup of tea and a biscuit), we've had a game of Scrabble, read a story and now he's gone back to sleep (he had a bad night so was really tired).  I tucked him up and told him I loved him and now he's having a snooze.  I did all that and I feel happy   The dishes are still unwashed and I'm not dressed and yet I'm sitting here writing about my FEELINGS!!!  It feels really good.  Thank you