Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 136597 times)

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #675 on: August 22, 2021, 03:15:11 PM »
One last thought before diving back into messy mess making projects in the zone.....

I don't mind being dismissed and voiceless in my family and I'm not saying I am.... at this time.

I'm saying I DID and perhaps still DO mind being voiceless up to recent times.... WHEN......
I've been labled/scapegoated/labled and accused/assumed to be doing the opposite of what I'm actually doing/have always done.  Maybe some of the really stupid things, of youth, have been what I've carried around..... signage....I AM THAT.  I DO those things, will always make those terrrible choices, and I'm reviewing patterns right now, so........will sort that and find clarity with it soon,but there are things I certainly am not now, and have not been for a very long time.  I am not a foolish teenager, now, for instance.  Have not been and was not when I performed father's due diligence on his brain surgery, for instance.  I was mid thirties then,btw.  I'm not going into that. It appears to be sorted, but I note the lack of reactivity around it.  Whew, boy.  Thank God.  ::small happy dance::

This topic reminds me of the PDs and the people who stand around watching and enabling them.  Not sure why.

The PDs do what PDs DO.  It's fairly straightforward. One can wrap their mind around it and adjust expectations accordingly.  Find serenity in the middle of the storm, IME. 

It's the by standers/enablers/people who DO nothing,when it's absolutely their job to DO the right thing,but they don't. Particularly when they do the opposite,which is enabling, but I'm following a train of thought here.....
THOSE are the people doing more harm, IME.... as it hits me in the chest and brain and how reactive I AM...have been....around what they do or don't do is now stronger/more violent inside my being.... or so it seems.

Adjusting expectations around all human beings, PD and not PD humans..... is more complicated than adjusting expectations around PDs, who are simpler and typically very consistent, IME....one one wraps their mind around the disorder and self destructive patterns......one GETs it.  The PDs will destroy themselves and lives and children in order to destroy someone else.  It's nonsensical,. but consistently so, IME.  One can get that and accept it....KNOW it in their bones as truth.

I haven't quite wrapped my mind around the others,who honestly....might be disordered or have fleas or be manipulated in crazy stupid ways by statements meant to create knee jerk reactivity and it's not really about how smart or stupid one is, is it?

It's about windows of resilience?  Windows of tolerance?

Before one cracks?  Before we spin into reptilian brain....sans available logic/creativity/problem solving skills to hand?

And "cracking" is that...... a little crack or a through and through crack that spins people OFF into fully committed disordered behaviors or what?

I suspect it begings with a tiny crack, much of the time, with professionals in positions of authority and responsibility.  Pressure, perhaps, from clients/bosses/systems that goes a bit deeper. Tthen they're faced with what they've done and have to commit, or veer off/take responsibility/do the right thing, bc it's apparent..... people NOT under the spell outnumber them. Will hold them accuntable at some poitn and they can see the writing on the wall OR..... the people who cracked under a little pressure and now face what they've done,  make the decision to double down and  cover it up......they have to really commit to escape that truth/avoid SEEING who they are/what they've done...... and that means they paint the situation/people black and white and this is where once sees the real crazy come out. I think that's disordered....not simply human behavior, IME. 

I've seen Judges reverse themselves, even after fully committing to break laws and double down to destroy me and my children... white male Judge...... getting called on his shite, I suspect by his pregnant white 30something file clerk... but maybe not..... EVERYONE around him AND the evidence contradicted 2 of his rulings.... he actually had to reverse himself TWICE, WHICH IS not how things usually go.  BC I'm able to afford good counsel..... which I didn't have at that time really..... maybe he reversed himself without forcing me to go through the Appellate cours...... which is where people without resources and voice in this culture have to go, but can't afford it,. so maybe this was one of the first times this Judge was held accountable or held himself accountable, however unhappily he did it...... and did the right thing, even though he basically tried opposing counsel's case for THEM during the trial, with my ex white fighter pilot voicing OUT LOUD all the mistakes and rule breaking and vow taking crapped on, for the record, with the Judge chiming in he'd actually taken one more vow then my attorney stated for the record....bc the Judge was fully committed to DOING what he'd done....breaking laws, rules and vows...... he just was.  And it echoed through a divorce and custody hearings and visitation Orders....  echoed and echoed and I don't think he's a bad man.  I think he was a simple, not so bright man who was angry at the system harming minorities, if I'm truthful. I think he had good intentions and wanted to stop some of the things he did himself, and this is where one says things like......the road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?  Slppery slope and all that, right?

The human factor. He honestly believed opposing counsel. He hated me from the moment he saw me in his courtroom and stared me in eye... no he glared at me with menace as he told my STBX ASPD H "someone is going to jail if I find out what's being said is true." Now, he was referring to the assaults and threats against me, so..... it was really challenging my "windows" of resilience to have him stare me down like I was the person he intended to put into a jail cell.The person caring for small children.  Dependent, yet priviledged, but also physically at the mercy of an ASPD, which is easier to prove once harm or death occurs, then the Judge can sit around and say how he "had no idea things were as bad as that.... the truth came out of the blue" which brings me bak to feeeeeeeeling unheard to the point I honestly felt I'd told almost no one of  the facts involved, but my criminal attorny went all wide eyed and assured me I'd TOLD EVERYONE, when I stated that belief. 

How we process things.How people listen or dismiss us...hear or don't hear us.  Voicelessness is a curious thing and I assume I was voiceless in a family of big voices and self involved people.... golden chldren parents and bright siblings who cared about thngsand ghow they appeaered in the world.  Eh.... off track, here.  Back to third parties doing really bad things when it's their jobs to do the right thing, particularly when vulnerable children are at risk.

I'm thinking of the court appointed therapist doing the psych evals on my girls and the ILs....how that T didn't know the rules of the game she was playing and honestly didn't care enough to do ANY research about them...... she was SO INVESTED in doing a good job for opposing counsel... SO invested in the IL's mission....... SO convinced I was the devil and the ILs were innocent little sheep she lost sight of how she APPEARED to people NOT caught up in whatever story she bought...... she couldn't SEE how she'd appear to people invested in ONLY the facts and evidence.  She couldn't putanything ont he shelf long enough to SEE how she'd appear to the Judge who hired her or the African American business community in which they rubbed elbows..... she couldn't SEE it.  She was completely invested, caught up.... not that she really liked the PDs.... she occassionally threw them under a bus by refusing to hide certain facts in their personality tests...... not at all flatterign.... likely to be true..... FIL a likely liar hiding his truth while MIL was a vengeful person capable of terrible things partiularly if she felt she'd been wronged, which she absolutely did.   Paraphrasing, of course.

And that's the thing..... I guess it's the entire thing with politics right now too.  Once a nervous system is switched....once the parasympathetic nervous system is shut down....... people aren't rational or logical or capable of problem solving.... they don't seem to be open to the facts or evidence. They aren't willingto DO any fact checking and I'm talkingabout evryone. 

With biased Judges and worker bees in systems and police racist officers..... they can't see it, can they?  Their POV is so skewed.  The status quo is SO off.  The way things work is top down..... it's not the racist officer, IME. It's the person who hired, trained and told them how things work.  I don't understand why the system isn't dismantled and built back in a way that makes sense.... identifies the problms and addresses them...... fixes the systems. Political, legal... all of it,and now I hear my father laughing...... "You're fucking with a man's rice bowl, Lighter.... what did you expect?"



Since there are different sets of consequences for thems in power and with resources
and thems without......
 it's been a bit of a learning curve for thems with, I suppose.
 Slow and expensive and crazy making for those enduring the  leisurely stroll into consequence land for those with power.   

And, I have to say..... there have been so few consequences....NEGATIVE consequences for the powerful, once they're outed.  The scapegoats and underlings take the fall and things go on as usual till the next "consequence." 

This culture doesn't intend to hold their feet to the fire.... wouldn't know how,I suppose.  The ripples of holding the powerful accountable go allthrough the layers of society?  Is that true?  Does it have to be true to account for what's happening? 

They DO know how to hold the powerless and voiceless accountable. There are systems in place and even if they're able to escape, the system itself holds them accountable,bc it's really hard to overcome and esape.  I'm mostly talking about minorities here, not myself, thought I've had a POV not many priviledged get to see, IMO. The systems are very good at compromising thems without power. It's in place to DO just that one thing, IME and I had a few conversations IN these positions. Their court appointed attorneys had no time for them and likely felt obliged to spend under an hour brokering a deal, guilty or innocent, to plead guilty (in order to avoid being convincted) and put under the jail..... that's the threat, guilty or innocent and it HAS to be bc the system is on the brink of collapsing under all the cases,w hich MUST be settled in order to keep it from collapsing. My version of the truth, not likely how anyone else would explain it, but that's what I saw with my own eyes and hears wiht my own ears...... the madness of the voiceless and abused and trapped in jail for 2 years without actual charges being filed, bc the lady couldn't afford the bail set outside her reach.  That is nuts. That IS how things are.  She couldn't get out to formulate her defense against charges NOT yet brought against her. 2 years.

In my final court case, African American Judge and AA court appointed T held court in an all female Courtroom.... poor FIL was the only man in there at times..... all the court officers were female.  His attorney was female,my attorney was female. The cops were female and AA and the court reporter was female. The game has changed and that's what I'm saying.  It didn't take that Judge a day to release her Final Order.She GOT it, was ticked off at opposing counsel for making her cherry picked Court Ordered AA T look like a fool,which was the opposite of her intention.  She wanted more female faces,more AA expert faces in her courtroom and you know what?  Opposing counsel, after losing.... filed his Appeal BASED ON THE FACT the court appointed T didn't do her job right or at all and THIS after he'd taken her over, given her new marching orders and asked her to DO things making her appear a bufoon, like a child having a tangent in that deposition (Lord, if only I'd paid the extra to video tape it) after opposing counsel SULLIED her and defiled his position as a baby judge...... ruined that T's ability to hold her head up in her community including that Judge...... it's pretty clear that T never understood what she'd done... to my children or to herself. And THERE's the self destructive behavor of someone lashingout in a disordered fashion, not just as a human being who's been manipulated, IME.  Their willingness to destroy themselves, unable to SEE exactly through to the final consequences..... SEEING only their will and intention to do harm, which they're convinced is the work of.... of...... the side of good? 

In any case, there's the difference, IMO. The disordered behave like the disordered PDs bc sometimes the 3rd party bystanders, in ppositions of trust and authority ARE disordered themselves. Without a doubt, of course they are..... have to be, canbe.... sometimes are.

I'm just saying.....I always assumed they were "normal" people under control of the PDs. That's certainly not the case, iME. Can't be.

Things are shifting.  Consequences are something on the table....now.  That Court Appt T should have been humiliated in the courtroom,by the ruling, which I included a copy of when I sent the check for a copy of her records.  I wanted to make sure she had a fresh copy and if I didn'thighlight her humiliation I'd really be shocked.  Everything she said and did was ignored, outright,by the Judge who stated that in her FINAL ORDER.....just.... a humiliation IF you know anything about the game, or care about it.  The disordered play by their own rules and don't care about the rules mere mortals are expected to follow.  I bet she still has no idea what she did, or how she's viewed. She has enough YES men and women around her..... and you know what.... every so many years I leave a review for her.  Not bc I'm lashing out, but bc what she did is IN the light of day and I want to make sure it stays in the light of day...... there for anyone googling her name or checking out her reviews.  It's there. Refreshed and that's a public service, IMO. Sometimes it takes me hours to write and figure out how to GET TO THE PLACE where I can post the darned things....but I do it.

I think, and have seen, the PDs and manipulated powerful.....misdirected...... doing bad or illegal things or amoral or breaking rules..... often the only consequences forthem, when they;'re caught.....
is....
them simply not gettig their way. 
Not getting away with what they were attempting to causually shove down an innocent throat, but then I'm thinking about the Distict Attorneys who hide exculpatory evidence in order to convict or force a plea so they can laugh about it at the water cooler, while waring jeans, at the office.

The assistant DA, who gave statements to the press after my aquittal that I was guilty in his opinion, is now in charge in another County somewhere.  He wasn't the sort to hide exculpatory evidence, at least not when I was in his courtroom, but maybe he's suffered enough ego violatations he's shifted that policy.  Maybe. 

The Judge who allowed him to make up stupid rules and DO very stupid things in her courtroom was removed from her courtroom and disbarred...almost held accountable in jail....but only bc she'd stepped on the wrong toes..... the DA's office in her own Courthouse.  THOSE people in positions of priviledge had a voice and recourse, somehow, not available to the rest of us mere mortals. 

There are PDs everywhere, at every level.  Unchecked and often in those positions of power, bc of their disordered behaviors, IME.

And this interests me. 

Lighter




lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #676 on: August 22, 2021, 03:16:30 PM »
CB:

SF was my late step father.

He was overtly concerned with table manners,n ot sure why.  It seemed to be something to do with how white, affluent men did business and being a part of their club, or not being a part of their club.

He wanted us to be part of the club.

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #677 on: August 22, 2021, 05:00:52 PM »
Ok.  THIS certainly belings on the mindfulness/codependence thread..... SO  Apparent to me now.

OK.  As I was going through the motions of making myself food in the kitchen and killing the stray fruit fly I SAW it with such clarity... there it was!

Oldest DD21's refusal/inability to DO dishes..... which she's certainly done in front of me from time to time when we're on the same page and vibing.....
this thing she has for NOT feeling responsible for dishes.....
is MY think to feel responsible FOR.  I have to have the kitchen cleaned a certain way.  I make it my number one priority in daily life.  IT'S MY quirk,same with bathrooms to a certain degree and it's what my FATHER gave to me and my Brother to have in our hearts and minds.  Brother's is different than mine, but they're from the same place, IMO.

THIS, failure..... is what my DD19 has named as a failure on my part to parent.  She said I ruined her and her sister....but is typically rerring to her sister when she's talking about it.

Now, I'd been trying to see this through unjudgmental eyes when I sent a text to the AC repair guy....... about replacing parts in a fan/heater/vent unit in bathroom number 1, bc newer ducts come out the end, not the long side, like THIS unit and my contractor just put it down and told me to loook for a unit with a side vent.

I digress..... I went downstairs to take a picture of the NuTone unit that wouldn't work and walked into a very warm bathroom, bc the floor heater had been left on low, and I want to tell you...... the toilet had been left unflushed, hard to say what was in it before it was abandoned to the heat,. bc it was completely dry, but for the contents stuck to the side and the smell.

My kids are used to me having have things a certain way and I DO them....I'm the mommy one, I handle these things typically, and they don't have to.  Youngest dd has the mommy gene and "pitches in" when there's company, but I haven't prioritized her handling anything on her own, which I guess healthier parents install inside their children,.bc it's just good parenting.

This struck me like a lightening bolt...... and I had plenty of lightening going through my body as I figured out what happened down there and went about doing what had to be done to FIX it.  Lord.  I had to go to the pantry, upstairs, where someone, not me, had put much of the cleaning products (above the food products) which made the food taste like industrial chemicals in some cases and this had me wondering again.  Was this my brother? Likely, as his GF doesn''t pitch in consistently with things like this, good on'her, btw.

And...... it's not OCD to put the industrial cleaning supplies AWAY from the food stuff, IME.  My brother was raised with the same father, yet he thought this was a good idea and I'm going from one very messed up situation, I didn't understand, to another situation.

I think my brother internalized my father's cleaning OCD in ways including HIDING everything, where I like things where I can see them, so I can find and  use them when I need them.

He also wants things to look like a hotel, which is one thing my first h liked to have in his life.  He and my brother are both what I've always called persnickity, but that's unfair...... they simply clean and care about things in a way society has assumed women will always care.

I have to say, my brother won't abide purses, even ones NEVER placed on the floor, on his counters.  He won't allow sitting on his bed in street clothes, which I don't care about.  AT ALL.

And so, I'm writing this out, bc I want to have it clear in my head so a later discussion with DD21 goes the way I want it to. I was baffled IN FRONT OF HER last night and she shut down.  I don't want her shut down.  I want her to be OK and able to just talk about this stuff with me. 

I'm going to wash the pug in the newly cloroxed sink then consider a time to chat, today or tomorrow, but I want to explain what I said and why I said it and talk about both of us getting our needs met.  DD doesn't cook, you see.  She can. She won't. 

When I leave her at home, she orders out food or goes and gets here.

She didn't have a car here. There's no ordering out here.

She was trapped in the house with food she had to prepare and she's sick to death of it and doing the minimum in cleaning, which is how she operates in the kitchen.  She never touches anyone else's dirty dishes, bc she's grossed out by them, even though she lived in the woods for 70+ days and was a champ at it....she's got blind spots.  I fill them and am likely the author of some of them.

Time to talk and resolve. Not judge and assign blame.  It helps me SEE the root causes so I may better address what's happening, why and what needs to change, including my behaviors.

I'm sure DD didn't go back down stairs after a day or two when I went back home with youngest DD. She didn't know there was something IN the toilet, and we're thrifty water users..... we don't flush on number 1s until we're many many in the pot. If she DID know, she would have said something to me, like she did about the fruit flys. 

And...
I don't SEE this as a need for mommy love.....
not enough mommy love in the world... I say it a lot.

THIS is the kids expectations and my expectations and setting new, realistic, expectations for ourselves and each other.

Yup yup yup.

And....when I went to do laundry there was a tiny load of pretty dry clean things... including my masks..... that had been left.... I DID that, expecting to return the next day at the latest, btw.  That was me.

There are things I need to tend to. Things that are mine and things that need to be my children's.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #678 on: August 22, 2021, 06:06:24 PM »
I was looking for propery pug washing soap when I found DD drawing on her Ipad and looking ripe for conversation.

I opened with... guess how my day went.

We laughe through most of my story, but she cried when it came to mental health issues, which was so painful to watch.  I told her she isn't mentally ill... she's got work to do on coping strategies to widen her window of resilience, etc and she checked out...back into her i pad.  I took the dog and gave her a proper bath then had another light hearted chat with DD about that and the pug's handling of said bath in a sink she's never been bathed in before.  How can a 60" sink not be big enough?  I'll tell you.... there's 3 sinks and a huge drain board. The sink at home is one very large single pug washing station, that's how.

Everything smells OK now. 

I'm feeling very OK about everything right now. 

Am drinking water and eating pretty good. I left all my supplements behind when I went home, so was out of betafood for a week, I guess.   DD19 has Zypan and Ashwaghanda in her supplements, so.... not feeling too far behind.

It's interesting to SEE everything without judgment.  Again... dropping judgment, releasing expectations....... just accepting what is, then planning personal decisions around that information is good.

SEEING what's' what, without being mislead or TOLD what's what, when it contadicts everything I'm looking at...... is also so very helpful.

Releasing the need to SHOWpeople the truth, particularly those misleading and being mislead..... is a balm.  Knowing that need was present, so I could gently put it down, is balm also.

I would never have connected certain dots without connecting the basic dots first.... self care, self compassion, zero judgment, getting curious, calming myself when I lose access to frontal lobe....... coming back to myself and what's true for me.... dropping need to honor other people's truths.

I need ice water.Lots and lots of icy water, yup yup yup.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #679 on: August 22, 2021, 09:49:41 PM »
Lighter, are you okay?

So much poured out of you today (I've been offline) that I was stunned when I logged back in.

It worried me some for you.

hugs
Hops

PS I don't mean it's not good to pour out here, it's excellent! I just wouldn't know where to start to say "I hear you." But I heard you. Hope the ashwagandha helps.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #680 on: August 23, 2021, 10:45:10 AM »
Not gonna lie, Hops:

My return to the lake house was upsetting and I was upset. Over and over again. 
 
I'm OK. 

Promise.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #681 on: August 23, 2021, 12:09:35 PM »
I'm glad, Lighter.

I do understand why DD21 is living at home with you, given her illness and a pandemic. But I'm wondering, do you have any sense of when she'll live on her own? I wonder if that'd reduce stress for you both.

I almost wish I had a touch of OCD, my standards are so sloppy. But I know in reality it can be tormenting. And I'd find it very hard for different reasons to be taken for granted in household cleaning responsibilities.

I imagine it's a very complicated issue, so don't dive in if this isn't the time or would be draining.

Peace and comfort,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #682 on: August 23, 2021, 01:36:43 PM »
Hops:

I don't know what path DD19 or DD21 will travel as they head toward the door and walk through it.  DD19 has always looked forward to going away to University and living on her own. Covid put the breaks on that dream, as did the anorexia.  She continues seeing her ED T and regular T.  I wish she'd take me up on the Trauma Informed T, but won't.  It is what it is till it morphs into something, hopefully, better, but I can't control that. 

I hope DD21 will call the Trauma Informed T. 

I trust they will adult and that has to be enough right now.

About providing maid service to ungrateful young adults......it's not ideal, but requires effort on all our parts to shift it, IMO.  I can't always have it done MY way in MY timeframe.  I CAN ask things get done, their way in a timely fashion.  That's still to be determined. 

I was talking to youngest dd about how yesterday went..... talking about coping strategies and windows of resilience.... how I didn't teach them, bc I didn't know better, but they can learn now.

DD19 said...
"That's OK, Mom...... sister and I have food."

I didn't laugh at her joke. She'd found the darkness and made a funny. 

She uses humor, just like I do, and I see how sometimes it's not appreciated.

Lighter




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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #683 on: August 23, 2021, 05:41:13 PM »
I couldnt believe how much better it got when they moved out, Lighter! The stuff they pulled when they were home (even as full grown adults) got worked out real fast when there was no one else to clean up the mess they made. A couple of them had a day of reckoning with a roommate.   I KNOW those days of reckoning will take place.  I cringe when I think about it, but lean into it, CB.

I'm living with my son now--he isnt living with me, we are roommates. So I cant be parental about stuff and sometimes it makes me crazy. But I know the days are numbered. Some of what I get bent out of shape about are the things that I do to keep myself less anxious. I cant control someone else's behavior so I blame them for my anxiety. It will be interesting to see what I'm like when I'm in my own place for the first time. It's coming up!  Ya.  I know some of my anxiety is MY stuff.  Sharing space should have morphed into the girls going off to University with roomates.  In the meantime, I have a burning desire to communicate simply, identify problems and focus on solutions.

I think we're used to operating in a boundary impaired society, with imperfect boundaries in place and we're dealing with our more or less regulated emotions..... control dramas...... and I'm feeling pretty sick to death about going over those same dramas without resolving them and moving on to something new.


I get the underlying anxiety about your daughters and their mental health issues. I'm there. It almost feels impossible to picture them managing without you--you cant let go, but you know the natural progression of things is that you will. I have laid awake nights wondering if mine will take their meds when I'm not there (as I'm sure you wonder about yours and food). I've stared a lot of possible outcomes in the face and its daunting. What I know is that I was a hugely stabilizing force for as long as they needed me to be. We are all entering a new stage.   I think we're entering new stages, ready or not.  I try not to look down the road..... it's not productive.

Yours is coming too. I know this is crazy making--esp as you keep trying to have a conversation that will hopefully make them "get it". I love your daughter's humor. My kids pull this on me too--it really is funny but its NOT. Dammit. I have come to grips with the fact that they all roll their eyes at me behind my back.
I've thought about dropping oldest dd21 back at the house with the dog, but youngest dd19 is super angry at DD21's refusal to do basic chores and pitch in.  She's been angry for a very long time.  It boils over which makes me really uncomfortable. Sometimes they get along fine.   I avoid the conflict, when possible.  Dropping the girls off at home, and comingback to the lake to work sounds really good to me....I long to do that, honestly. 

Now, that said..maybe DD19's anger is necessary, in our family dynamic, bc I've been SO allergic to conflict?  Maybe DD19's anger has a function in our family dynamics and I should stop judging it good or bad.... just experience it and allow her to have it without trying to calm or placate her.  Maybe?

And I'm learning to manage my emotions..... consistently.

I do believe I suffer bc I hold unrealistic expectations for how my daughters and I get along and how things are in our extended family.   Keeping my eye on all the moving balls is confusion and frustrating.  What I want to do is pare the dynamics down into their simple parts and KNOW them without confusion.  I feel there are too many moving parts right now, but mostly around my children.  I'm still discovering dots and learning about all the available choices.....and there's still choices popping up. 

I'm so ready to address causes, discuss them and resolve them without getting caught up in reactivity. Mine and other people's reactivity... stuff.  And I know I don't have all the answers, but..... I get to feel Ok about the things keeping me level... bringing me back to level.

I guess I have to make peace with weilding my own power, setting boundaries and eforcing them like a mother bear protecting cubs.  Even when people consciously or otherwise confuse and upset me about what's really happening.  And that's my stuff...... to notice when I'm being gaslit and sabotaged. 

Is THIS about my needing to be liked and agreed with?  LORD, why do I have to learn the same lessons from 10 different directions without SEEING it's the same old lesson, I just haven't figured that one thing out. Yet?

I'm dropping DD21 off and keeping the Pug. 

I guess that's IF DD21 wants to go.

Grrrrrrr.

I want to get barefoot and paint things. The cabinets, mantles and master vanity..... and walls in Robin's Egg Blue.
Thanks for the input, CB. 





CB

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #684 on: August 23, 2021, 05:42:56 PM »
Crap.

This kind of navel gazing is always Always tied to me faffing about with acceptance.

What IS it I need to accept here? What can I change?

Lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #685 on: August 24, 2021, 10:13:50 AM »
Simplifying.....

noticing which reactions are attached to so many problematic habits in my life.

Seeing an one emotional reaction come up in so many places..... particularly today's the stomach flip when I neeeeed others to understand, get, assimilate something I feel everyone should get/would benefit from.....and it's happening all day for me, undercurrents of it, anyway.  I don't really need that. I don't believe I can achieve that, but the stomach flip is my default, I realize.

Once I peg it down, so many "problems" will become something else for me.  I can see them and respond without the stomach flip and reacitivity.  It will be a matter of managing then quieting then silencing that pattern,IMO.  Maybe can work with the T about that next time I see her and that's making so much sense for me. 

It's impossible to notice these things when in the middle of crisis, 3 ring circus, bossy boots people barking orders and demans and sometimes ultimatums.... which isn't IN my life right now, but used to be pretty constant. I think it felt a bit like home, really, which is why it happened so often.  I invited it in OR allowed it in when bossy, controlling people identified someone who made them feel like home. 

I'm not saying I'm done with that.  I'm saying I want to be fully cognizant and awake so I spot it, am able to be responsive and deal with it calmly..... zero stomach flips, just seeing everything as it is. 

That seems like something tapping me on the shoulder, requiring attention and I'm so relieved to write it out.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #686 on: August 24, 2021, 11:19:21 AM »
Having started life as a single egg, dividing into two eggs with sister being the dominant twin AND both parents having been GC.... it's not difficult to see how I became someone who views others and  their needs as important as my own.  It's like moving INSIDE my body and seeing myself first, for the first time....instead of viewing myself through the lenses of other people..... FOO, children..... those who had power and judged me, which was new, bc I wasn't a minority, I wasn't a very vulnerable member of society until I was.  To cut that train of thought short...... "How much justice can you afford?" was the only true saying in the legal system, IME.
"Innocent till proven guilty" and "In the best interest of the children" are complete farce,IME.  The court officers are jaded and bitter and know it, even though they say it over and over and over. 

And I understood FOG.... fear, obligation and guilt.  I simply couldn't see myself standing in it, bc it was so much easier to see how it affected other people..... harder to see myself in it, sometimes impossible,bc what would it MEAN?  Just an overwhelming concept to really look at hard, IME.

Now that I've nailed that down, reasonably well, I hope it's like cleaning a kitchen.  I can do other things now.  Cleaning the rest of the house...my internal house, physical house.....
ya.

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sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #687 on: August 24, 2021, 11:21:16 AM »
Couple observations - and realize I might have misunderstood -

Someone else's anger only requires you to acknowledge it; let them know they're heard; and hold that space while they vent about it compassionately. No reaction; no response needed. Not at that time. No matter how crystal clear a solution is for you. They have to own their anger and learn how to manage it themselves - they already have the tools and are capable of making informed choices. Later, when they're not IN the anger is the time to discuss further and analyze... and maybe solve in the future.

Your girls both sound pretty mature for their age. It's time for you to gradually start moving out of the old role of guiding & protecting (even from their own adjustments to life after trauma) and let them learn to manage it themselves. This gives you the space & time to make your own choices and changes into post-active mothering. You can "retire" from that... and explore ways to finally move into a more "friends, with a long history" mode. Even with them living in the same house.

From experience, I can tell you that it'll be a process of a lot of trial, and there will be a lot of error on both your parts. But if everyone is committed to working through it to a new comfort zone of balance - new boundaries on who is responsible for what, finding their solutions and paths, taking their own risks... it will (in the long run) prove to be one of the most worthwhile "projects" you can develop and maintain.

You're doing OK in this so far. So let yourself off the hook for being responsible for ALL the heavy lifting, OK? I just got a pointed reminder from Hol about that same thing... that I was doing to myself. No, I didn't want to hear it. Instantlly disagreed (internally) and then when I heard her out, realized she was right. When I can admit that, I can sense and even SEE her confidence level increase. Not that she is lacking much confidence; but she does second-guess and look at things from all angles before tentatively choosing.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #688 on: August 25, 2021, 12:35:50 PM »
Amber:

I think my girls are very mature....... but maybe being around me undoes some of that?  Old competitive patterns for my attention pop up.  IF I'm on the phone oldest dd21 WILL require a chat and attention, for sure.  Even though she doesn't want to speak at all for days.....she'll want to then.

Anyhoo.... thanks for the vote of support.

Update on DD21..... she's no longer giving me the cold shoulder or weepy.  She woke me up this mornin by dumping baby girl pup in next to me, which is typically an honor in our family to receive deine pug.  Once we laughed and loved at the dog together, DD21 mentioned all the lovely chopped and prepared meats and veg in the fridge I wanted to cook, but couldn't bc.... just feeling demoralized working hard on a meal only to have DD21 snub entirely.

I've been making OK food choices for myself, but cooking spicy chili crisp pork or chicken stir fry, lots,, would kill my soul to watch not get easten.

So, this morning DD21 mentions the beautiful food ready to go and asks me to cook with her.  THIS is happiness and balm to my soul. 

As we move through the process.... she found the recipe online, as she always does for me, I began frying up pork.  DD21 handled the rice noodles and got the veggies going.... she was very hungry.  I adore sharing the experience with her, bc food's been traumatizing for us both...... I just had to let it go long enough, completely enough, that she stopped associating the trauma with me....I guess.

And I let her know I'm not bossing her....I simply work well with others and enjoy collaborating, so don't take it as being bossed.  I'm just enjoying fellowship with her and she said "I know, Mom."  I wanted to sob with joy..... and then it got BETTER!

As we were eating DD began talking about cultivating mushrooms.  Indoors, outdoors, what shrooms like dead things and which live in symbiosis with live trees and the different mushrooms and how we're IN the Piedmont, perfect for cultivating them at the lake or the house and her eyes were bright and I just let her lead....... asked questions....... looked up things.  We've both found mushrooms in our yard and the woods at home..... we're going to try cooking the blue ones when we get back home.  DD has always loved mushrooms, but she's apparently been researching how to cultivate them.  We discussed small and larger scale farming..... perhaps raising rabbits for meat..... but it's not really interesting her at this point and that's OK.  Open lines of communication are everything right now.  Her exploring and finding passions, perhaps to study..... is everything.  She talked about microbiology and perhaps studying that field..... possibly.  I'm just glad she's exploring. 

DD is showering and changing into hot weather clothes to go foraging on this property....... and I'm so very happy!

The Phillipino Dad came by to pick up his mail yesterday and we had a nice chat.  We get along very well. He was shocked at the changes in the house.  I was happy to show him where I would never consider inviting his wife in..... I don't like her. I don't enjoy her presense.  I always feel like I'm being duped and condescended to.... just the way it is and I don't have to do that anymore.  Never did, but my sibs were doing it...... wanted me to keep the peace and so I did.  The Phillipinos are in great shape and I'm truly happy for them. Will get the tractor out and help remove the posts and load them..... but I'm not engaging in the silliness.

I never had to do it and I'm not doing it any longer...
 WHEW, that feels amazing to practice boundaries and not obsess over it, just DO it then put
it
on
the
shelf.

Whoop whoop.

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lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #689 on: August 26, 2021, 07:38:37 PM »
DD19 and I foraged for mushrooms till we were pink faced and overheated..... finding 20 varieties of mushrooms was worth the time.

She's cooking with me, helped me replace the failing plastic kitchen shelf pegs today and clear out the cabinets.

It's almost like a weight was lifted off our relationship.

I hope it lasts.

Lighter