is it best to cut the ties completely with narc. parents?

[thredbogirl]

I have a narcissistic mother and father, who feed off each other. They are  very wealthy people, they get their n supply from the supposed importance that their wealth brings. My father believes he is a ''genius" and my mother enforces his belief, and also gets her supply from believing she must be pretty smart too, afterall he married her. She is married to a genius afterall.
My parents are defensive, aggressive and offensive and believe they are demi gods. They must be obeyed, no other opinion exists, and if anyone ever questions them they are idiots, and are told to hit the highway.

I have grown up with this attitude all my life, never having an opinion, no boundaries worthwhile, not knowing who I was, I was only as good as their narc. supply could milk from me. If I didn't live up to their expectations, I was ignored and tossed in the used pile.

If I dared stand up to them,  which my brother and I have in the past 10 years (I am now 45) it is automatic  expulsion  from the "family".  My youngest sibling,  sister is a co-dependent and narcissistic herself, reaps the rewards of their narc. supply.
Since this has happened I have felt so much freeier, peaceful and happier. I have mourned however, the fact that I dont have a 'family' any longer, or rather have ever had, in terms of an ordinary family as I see my friends have, spending holidays and special times with.
I try to tell myself that those times were too stressful with my "narc. family" and weren't enjoyable anyway, and that I am much better off to feel a little sad of what could have been at holiday time, than to have to endure the constant control and abuse that came with my typically narc. family.

I would like to know how many other people out there are in similar boat to me. Deciding that life isn't worth the pain that is endured with being in contact with their narc. families and have decided to cut the ties completely.

Thanks,

[Naomi]

I have bounced back and forth, because my family also has "some" redeeming and good qualities, and I find it very difficult to stay mad at them, or estranged from them for very long. I just can't seem to hold a grudge, and sometimes my heart warms up to them, understanding that "something" made them this way, and to some extent, I rationalize that it can't be all their fault. After all, aren't we solely the products of our upbringing?

So, finding that place inside myself that truly loves them and understands they are living in pain they don't even realize themselves, they just can't even see it. They don't know how it controls their lives. They cannot see the effect that their actions have on another. They are, infact, blind, to my way of thinking. Therefore, in my heart, I forgive, I am just made that way. But believe you me, throughout my entire life, this family has struggled with disfunction and the tendency to actually hurt another within the family seems to have a cyclical quality.

You don't necessarily have to sever all ties, just to save yourself....I have found that simply keeping them at arms length, then any time spent together is more quality than quantity, because if we are around eachother too long things become destructive. so I call my mom every once in a while, I do so love her, even though she has hurt me in ways all my life. Mostly abandonment...and it's time for me to be a big girl and not need my mother as much as I always believed I did. The more she abandoned me, the more I needed her, and it just grew and grew to be what it is today. We just try to keep things civil, and sometimes the only way to do that is to not see or hear from them for a while.

~Naomi

[phillip]

My mother died last year.  This year I realized that we were mostly celebrating the holidays for her, it seemed to mean so much to her.  My father generally just went through the motions every year, but it was my mother and sisters who pulled it all together.  I chose this year to be alone for Christmas.  I have been in the food service industry all my life, and the holiday period is usually the busiest time for me.  But I always found a way to get home for my mother.  You see, she loved her children unconditionally, and was subject to the same abuse from our father.  I feel that I am lucky she was in our lives.  I shudder to think where and who I would be now if it was not for her love.  She was a gift.  My father is soon going to die alone.  He seems to want it this way.  He misses his wife and is now regretting not doing more for her.  Maybe he is learning something.  I never realized the true impact of this love from my mom until she was gone.  She died quickly and peacefully and deserved an easy death.

[jondo]

I have cut off my N mother completely.  I used to engage her for the purpose of having her admit her problems and seek the help she has long needed. However, she denies all and is happy with the approval she gets/seeks from her never ending cycle of new suppliers.  These people are either co-dependent or just don't know her.  Nonethless she's resigned herself to clearing her good name - that I've soiled by talking openly of her and her N mother.  At some point, you just have to accept that your happiness isn't reliant on their acknowledgment (of their own problems/abuse).  I found a good long letter was good enough to end it.  If they are anything like my mother - you have lived in fear of them your entire life so a letter is probably the only way to make your position known.

[Anonymous]

Hello All:

I had a narc father and a marytered mother.  My father was emotionally abusive, remote.  I was also a very invisible person within my family.  I learned early on if I were not an advocate for myself, no one would be.  It was always about him, his wants, his family, etc.  My mother eventually died at an early age.  Within 10 months my father had remarried his ex-mistress that he had fathered a child by.  ( He had lied his whole married life to my mother about the nature of this realtionship).
He then calls me to get my "blessing"?  When I objected that I felt this was very abusive to me and my brothers.  He wrote a letter stating that "by gones should be by gones."  In other words my mother never existed, his abuse never existed, we should accept this woman as if she never ruined our lives.  My father early on in this extra relationship, abandoned my mom and children for a period of about 5 years.  We never saw him and we lived with our grandparents.  

When he did come back, my mother felt she had no choice but to remarry him because of economic reasons.  The affairs continued, the abuse continued etc.  After my father died, I found where a judgement had been attached about 40 years ago to the initial divorce decree where he was ordered to pay $5000 in back child support.  He never paid the back child support that my grandfather helped to provide.  He was the narc of narcs.  Narcs with money and position are the worst.  They wield it in the lives of others as if it were a magic wand.  I have a brother who currently does this with his children.  Patz

[Samantha!]

It depends. Seems what is possible.

My Nmother is a depressive woman, maybe borderline, she gets violent outbreakes from time to time. Ok, here Nmum was one of the most horrible mothers but that justificates not her irrational behaviour. After her last violent outbreak I even hat to get the cops and since then I stopped the contact to her completely. She might be even dangerous something can happen if you are togehter with her, and that reason is enough not to see her anymore.

With my Nfather, of whom I am kind of depend because I live in his, I have limited contact. I try to limit as much as possible. I am working on my way of moving in another country. Then I will be far away and I am positive, he will not visit me. So then out of the nature, I will have a very limited contact, maybe I write him from time to time an email (better no phoning).

Actually, I know many people who still have contact with they parents because of heritage and money reasons. I read in another group that is would be impossible to pay all that therapeutic costs from being with these people. I think really it depends how N and nasty they are.

If they are so nasty that it is ruining our health and it is not worth it. If it makes your life miserable, the same.

If it is ok, you just see them a few times per year and stick to postcards and phone card then you might can stay in touch with them.

For me, I am getting so used to forget about them. After I moved from her and have build a different support system, they will fade out of my life.

Samantha

[Anonymous]

Like Naomi, I am unable to sever ties with my Nmother, for a variety of reasons.  One reason is that I read a book several years back, which had a big impact on me, called "The Dance of Intimacy."  One of the things it says is that just because you "cut people off" doesn't mean they aren't still going to affect you, and in fact they may actually affect you more because in a way you're sweeping the issue under the rug.  

Like Jondo, I have also tried to get Nmother to see the error of her ways.  At first it was to get acknowledgement that she treated me poorly.  Then it turned into trying to help her be happier by seeing her own contribution to her unhappiness.  Of course, neither of these worked, and usually resulted in her cutting ME off completely (like thredbogirl described).  For whatever reason, I always ended up being the one to call her with my tail between my legs.  

Now, my goal is to keep her at arm's length, like Naomi said, but also to set appropriate boundaries when we do interact.  This is very difficult for me because I'm afraid she will cut me off once again.  Also, I tell myself, "What's the point of trying to set boundaries, she's never going to change so I should just try to ignore her behavior."  But, my therapist says setting boundaries is for ME to feel comfortable and dignified, not to get HER to change.  My task is to try to set the boundaries in as "kind" a manner as possible so as not to create a huge defensive reaction on her part.  In fact, this is pretty much becoming my "life task":  learning to set boundaries despite my terrible fear that doing so will cause friends and loved ones to "abandon" me like my mother did/does.  Also, to set boundaries in a kind way, because the behavior that was modeled for me was a lot of anger and whining, with the expectation that the boundaries would not be honored anyways.  I need to approach the boundary-setting with the idea that there is mutual respect between me and the people I'm trying to set boundaries with, that we're both adults and I have some power over the situation, unlike when I was a child and nothing I did to improve my situation had any impact, or actually made things worse. (i.e., I was VOICELESS!)

[catlover]

That last post was from Gwyn - I thought I was logged in, but apparently not

[no1where]

I'd say that the decision is entirely yours.  From what I understand, trying to communicate your feelings/wishes/desires with Ns is moot, you just sort of have to become less available to them.

Personally, I can't imagine cutting my psychomom off completely, or even envision trying.  She'd probably stalk me (lol).

Since your parents have each other, that leaves you with a little more autonomy than if you had a single Nparent to demand your attention.  I'd suggest you just go about your life and only deal with them on your terms, when and if you want to.

[Ellie as guest]

Hi thredbogirl and all,
I have cut all ties with my Nmom and Ndad. As a consequence my sisters have ceased talking to me for the most part. I'm much better off, but I understand the empty feeling of having no family. I just say I'm orphaned now.

The empty feeling is much easier to deal with than the hurt and pain they pushed on me weekly when we talked.

My Nmom has started calling my kids now to talk to them. She calls when she knows I'm not home. My kids say she's so boring to talk to. I'm gonna put a stop to that soon because I know she is now substituting them for n-supply since she can't have me anymore.

No matter what you do to cut them off, they will find a way to get at you. But it's easier than the full frontal assaults!

[stillstanding]

Like many of you, I have found it difficult, for a number of reasons, to completely sever ties with my Nmother and ?father.  I have considered the wise counsel of my therapist whose continuing question to me is, "What can you  live with when they're gone?".  And so I have maintained a once a week phone call or visit schedule, far reduced from my thoroughly emeshed days when I didn't know where I began and my mother ended (although my mother LOVED it that way, and any other way is a slap in her face).   FYI, I have no siblings, and my parents are both in extremely poor health.

The crux of the situation for me is the continual push/pull I feel toward her (my N mother).  I still feel something for her (OK, love), but I have learned that being close to her causes me pain, extreme pain, and so I avoid most contact with her.  Someone said on this board that their mother gores them, and that is so apt.  My mother loves to come charging at me emotionally, do her best to eviscerate me, and then watch me twist and turn in the breeze. For example,  She no longer even acknowleges my husband.  Won't mention his name or acknowledge the death of his father. And this is over something she just made up.   Her mind games are cunning and cruel and have hurt my entire family to the quick.  I wont even mention the fiasco she pulled at Christmas when they chose to go to a diner instead of coming to our house as invited, 5 minutes away.  My kids were devastated.  No matter.  My mother is extremely bright, and had her intelligence been channeled in a positive direction the world would be rid of some scourge or other.  INstead she uses her ability to attempt to divide, mnaipulate, intimidate, induce guilt.

 ALthough I have gotten much, much better at dealing with her, accepting her, forgiving her, etc., it's still hard to relax emtionally in the midst of this constant push/pull. (also read love/hate).  The ambivalence is exhausting.  There's nowhere to find a toehold emotionally and just hang on.  I feel as though I've lived in the middle of a ngihtmare the past three years (that's when she made up a fabulous tale, peddled it as reality, and stopped speaking to my husband).  It's also when I finally stood up and said, enough.  I'm not voiceless anymore, and I won't tolerate your rude, dismissive treatment of my husband anymore (saint that he is ) and I won't tolerate your attempts to run my life and ruin my marriage.  The result was like jabbing a tiger through the bars of its cage.  You could probably hear her enraged roar all over America.
 
The end result is this:  I find myself contemplating what it will be like if she passes away.  So much so that I feel guilty.  Really guilty.  Much like those of you who have coped with a long illness with your parents, there must be a sense of relief when it's finally over.  For the past three years my mother has continually tightened the noose, constantly hurled another barrrel in my direction,  "See if you can jump over this one!"   She keeps turning up the heat, "kicking it up a notch", I guess all in an enraged efort to "put me back In my place".  And I think I've done an admirable job, if I do say so myself, of handling what my therapist calls the most difficult of circumstances.  But I'm tired of coping.  I'm tired of stepping around what's intended as punishment for no longer playing their game.  And I find myself wondering, will there be massive guilt for things ending as they surely must, on such a bitter note?  Or will it feel like a load has been lifted?

That's all.  JUst absolutely had to join in on this one.  No ,I have not severed ties, and I think I'll be glad one day that I stuck it out and will be able to say I did all I could do.  Although life in the meantime isn't easy, at least I can gladly say  I'm

Stillstanding

[bunny]

Stillstanding,

I think you will feel relatively okay when she dies (if it ever happens). If you feel some guilt, you can always see a therapist!  It sounds like you made herculean efforts toward this impossible person.

bunny

[vuni]

I am really glad to have found this list.  

About a month ago I finally confronted my N-parents about my upbringing.  I didn't do it in the most psychologically perfect way (it was over e-mail) but I'm still glad I did it.

For this past month I've read some great books, including "The Narcissistic Family."  I feel much better.  But my parents have made clear that they are going to want to "address" my e-mail to them in person.  They say it in sort of a threatening way.  They already have sent me multiple replies, all of them cold, contemptuous, and oddly distanced from anything I actually said.   Their replies were so strange it actually scared me, so I said let's take a break from this for a bit and come back to it.

But, now I realize I don't want to come back to it.  I have no expectations of fixing anything.   My question is, though-- do I owe them any more conversations?  They certainly seem to think that I do.  If I don't, I think they will cut me off from the family as much as they can (they had veiled threats of as much in their e-mails).  THat is where we are now, actually.

[With some guilt I have to admit I sort of like it-- it's freeing].

My fantasy is that they will go to therapy and get fixed (is this a common fantasy of children of narcissists?).

help?

thanks!

[Naomi]

I believe it is very common to wish for your parents to get better, and have therapy. Unfiortunatly, most N's don't want it, or believe they need it. They will seldom admit that anything is wrong, and you wonder, how can they not see it? How can they not see how they hurt me, how can they not know the destruction they are inflicting?

It is something we have to accept, somehow. We have to learn how to get over it, and if necessary, cut them out of your life completely if it hurts too much, and promises to bring you more and more pain over and over again.

you seem very logical and rational, despite your parents contemptuous and threatening nature towards you. This puts you in a very good position, with a well rounded view and perspective. Don't let them threaten or scare you. That is when we let the N's win and they get to destroy another piece of you. Don't let them harrass or intimidate you, try to distance yourself from their destructive ways.

As I type this, I am still learning things myself, and I find the support on this board absolutely amazing.

I hope you can trust yourself enough to know when something is going to hurt you again, and don't let it anymore.

Take care.....

[Anastasia]

Narcissists don't "see" how much they have hurt you because they don't care....it's ALL about THEM...read this board and learn.
I tried for years to get my NMother to "see" the pain she has caused me, and do think she understands it intellectually....but she doesn't get it on any type of emotional basis as she does not have the capacity to get it.
I gave up trying, and am much more content now.  You cannot force anyone to understand something they just don't have the ability to "get."
Work on YOURSELF...and forget trying to get anyone to see the error of their ways...it ain't worth the effort.
Just my opinion and what worked for me.
Forget them....just work on building your own self-esteem and happiness.  You have to realize that some just can't be rehabilitated.