Anxiety, anxiety, PANIC

[dogbit]

I've always been prone to panic attacks since I was a little kid but as I grew older, I was able to choose my environment which helped a lot.  In January, 2004, I picked up the clothes on top of the dryer and walked out of the house leaving Mr. Entitlement behind.  It was a moment when I just knew he was going to finally get me.  Get me in what way, I was not certain but the hate, rage, and paranoia had reached a point where I knew he was completely irrational and I was the target.  We had been married 23 years and I knew from the start there were problems but I was no different from anyone else and thought I could make everything better.  Prior to leaving, my therapist who I had met through my daughter's counseling and who had a few sessions with all of us told me after finally going to her by myself that she strongly suspected NBPD and gave me some books to read and kept supporting me.  I can't describe the horror I felt when I finally knew what had been going on for the entire marriage.  I've read so much here that I won't go into a lot of details because the pattern is so predictable and I was the perfect "non".  After I left, I spent a good 6 months being so scared, I wasn't functioning.  I couldn't figure out why I was so scared and what was I scared of???  I would wake up in the morning, take some xanax and go back to bed until it kicked in.  Then I could get out of bed!  I didn't want anyone to see me because I thought they could see inside me and see how defective I was.  But I wasn't sure what the exact defect was.  I would ask my girl friend whom I have known for almost 50 years who I used to be.  It's now been almost a year and a half and the divorce is still not over.  He refuses to give up financial information and court time is precious in my rural area.  We do finally have a date in a few weeks.  I do have a good attorney.  I have not been able to go back inside my house to get my personal things.  He won't let me in and changed the locks on the doors.  I have gotten the sheriff to escort me in to get my clothing.  Legally, he can't do this but this is what he has done.and to take time and money to fight just my being able to go into my house would take time and money away from the divorce process.  Emotionally, I think? not having my "stuff" leaves me feeling even more vulnerable?  Plus, I can't work because all my equipment is in that house...So maybe that plays a part?  I think it is playing a part now but in the beginning, the panic was really paralyzing.  The panic right now doesn't last all day like it used to but getting up in the morning and going to sleep at night is tough.  I hope this isn't too disjointed but would like to hear if anyone else had/has this problem.  And, does it eventually go away?  Thanks

[Anonymous]

Hello Dogbit:

You are showing the full extent of courage!  Congratulations!!!

To act, regardless of your fear and keep going is inspiration to all who are not doing that.  Truly, you deserve to be free of fear and pain and are doing what is necessary to achieve that.  I just want to give you that credit and encourage you to keep on.  This won't last forever!!

I have never suffered from panic but I just recently read a book that might get you on the way to healing....even a little.  It's called:

"I'd rather laugh" by Linda Richman.

It seems to me the most pressing issue is to get your equipment so that you can work.  This will help to bring some "normal" back into your life.
I'm glad you have a good lawyer and I hope he/she will do all possible to help you with this.

I wish I had something more helpful to say to you.  All I can tell you is to keep putting one foot infront of the other and things will get better.

(((((((dogbit)))))))

GFN

[Anonymous]

(((Dogbit)))

Panic attacks can be so crippling.  I experienced my first one...I guess 7-8 months ago.  It was terrifying.

I just recently told my primary doc about them and he prescribed Xanax.  

Now that I know what is happening I try to talk myself out of them.  I repeat to myself, "OK it's just a panic attack and it will pass".  This approach helps a little for me maybe it could for you too.

I really haven't sought any help other then telling my primary doc.  This past month hasn't been as bad. (knock on wood)

You say that you go back to bed.  For me that intensifies my panic.  I try to immediately search for a task even if it's as simple as putting the dishes in the dishwasher.  It takes everything in me to focus on the task but it helps with the panic.  

I will pray that your divorce settlement process will pick up speed and that you will be able to recover your property.  Try telling yourself that your stuff is just that, stuff.  It's all replaceable.  

You managed to salvage the most important thing of all....YOURSELF.
Know that you made a step in the right direction and know that you have the support of everyone here.

I went through a hellish divorce with my X N too.  It was a real battle and I am still battling with him (issues with children).  We can help eachother get through the torture that N's love to inflict.

I wish you all the best.

Hang in there.

Mia

[Anonymous]

(((Dogbit)))

When my ex N husband passed away I experienced anxiety and panic for about 2 and half years.  I would awake in the morning with this black cloud and it would mushroom into anxiety then panic.  Thinking he was coming back, what was going to happen to me on and on.  I still experience major anxiety especially when I "voice" my opinion or speak on my behalf.  I can understand some of what you are going through.  Going to bed seem to make mine worse.  Sometimes I would awake in the middle of the night shaking all over.  A mild antidepressent seemed to help.  I really had a hard time making decisions etc.

My heart goes out to you as you try to navigate the legal system.  Try to take care of yourself so you can get what belongs to you.  If there is some simple pleasure that revitalizes you, indulge yourself and often.  You have more strength than you know.  Much love

Patz

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hey guys, watch those benzodiazepines (Xanax and friends).

Your body *can* become accustomed to them and then a drop in blood levels of them *can* trigger something like a panic attack. And then you have to work your way out of it by slowly reducing the dose, etc...

I was given Xanax prior to my surgery so I could sleep - had about six weeks of it - and I found I had to halve the dose and break up the dosing, and could only take it three nights a week, with one night off in between. Otherwise, I got hit by panic like an anvil dropping on me, just about X hours post dose.

Dogbit(tles)... have you tried green tea? [No, honest to goodness I do not own stock in Liptons or Bigelow's.] You might need to use the caffeinated variety, some decaffeination processes could also remove theanine, which is the calmative agent. And besides, tea doesn't have as much caffeine as coffee. It mostly has a related compound, theobromine, which is milder.

***********

A short course on methylxanthines:

Caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline are all related compounds called methylxanthines. Theophylline is the 'strongest', and is often prescribed for asthma. Caffeine also has similar, milder effects on the bronchial system, and so does theobromine, which is why many asthmatics really crave coffee or tea. [I'm asthmatic, never knew it till my mid forties, and had a coffee habit from about 13, which is why I never knew it.]

Coffee=caffeine, tea=theobromine. I can't remember where theophylline came from offhand. Mostly generic pharmaceutical companies, these days (grin).

***Exposure to high levels of either caffeine or theophylline can cause apprehension, feelings of panic, etc.***

****Certain herbs and drugs can limit the body's ability to process these compounds quickly, causing them to build up. Ginseng is particularly effective at this and *can* cause coffee drinkers to get major caffeine jitters in just a couple of days.****

*****Theophylline can be quite toxic on overdose!!! Stay away from ginseng if you have to take theophylline!!!!!*****

It's harder to get similar reactions to theobromine... possibly because tea is even more diuretic than coffee. But possible.

Sorry... herbology has become a real hobby of mine, and people tend to forget that both coffee and tea are herbal products!

I'll go away quietly, now.

Storm

[Jaded911]

Hi dogbit,

I was reading your post and for some reason the overwhelming feeling of sadness came over me.  I think of how selfish N are and I also wonder why it seems like it always has to end like this.

It has often been my thoughts that they act like complete ass's when a breakup occurs because they still maintain the control and it forces you to still stay in contact.  I was in the same situation that you were.  He held my stuff and I had to continue to cooky poo poo him to try to get my stuff back.

Long story short, I told him to shove my stuff up his ars.  I said I would rather be homeless & living in a box naked then to have to listen to his cokka any longer.  He said he would throw it out in the trash or burn it......my response was.......go for it you bleeeeeep.....I can always buy more stuff, so flipn nanna buubuu....Im one up on you arshole.  I lack personal belongings which can be replaced, you lack friends, family, self respect, a conscience, and a heart....cant replace all those now can ya.

I decided my sanity and my damn self worth was way more important then my Tommy Hilfigers.  Besides that, every I had woiuld remind me of him.  Every pair of jeans would make me think of comments he made about them.  Like how fat I looked in a pair of jeans.  Mind you I am 5'6 and 120 lbs.  So he can keep the jeans and if he happens to have any memory left he can remember me fat in those jeans.

Also hun, Im not a psychiatric nurse but it also sounds to me like you might be suffering from Post Tramatic Stress Disorder.

You be the person you always knew you were dogbit....not the person he tried to convince you that you are.

[Jaded911]

Not trying to be a medical know it all here butttt.......

Caffeine of any sort can trigger anxiety.  Caffeine is a stimulant and any stimulant has peeks and vallies when you come off of it.

Also you should consult your physician before taking any herb.  Herbal products can interact with prescribed medications with horrible consequences.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Yipes, I forgot to include chocolate.

Chocolate is loaded with theobromine and may be the source of theophylline too. The theobromine is what makes it so toxic to dogs and cats... they don't have the enzymes we do, to process this class of compounds.

So, ginseng doesn't get along with coffee, tea, cocoa, or theophylline.

Plus, any of the 'conazole' antifungals *can* do something similar. They gave me fluconazole to take after I came home from hospital, because of all the antibiotics I (finally) got. The label said avoid theophylline, and my brain was partly switched off, so I remembered coffee and tea but forgot about cocoa having theobromine in it, and ugh did I feel lousy till I figured it out.

that's all folks.

[Stormchild Guesting]

And Jaded is exactly right. Always check interactions. But remember, a lot of traditionally trained doctors are uninterested in this stuff or afraid of / threatened by anything they weren't taught in school, so they will not advise you in an unbiased manner. Best bet is to look for someone with both traditional and pharmacognosy training, so they have the science to understand the whole thing.

[dogbit]

Thank you everyone.  I only drink one cup of coffee a day and Praise the Lord, I have not become addicted to xanax.  I've been prescribed it for well over 10 years now and have had to throw many away because they went past the expiration date.  For me, just knowing they are there is enough most times.  My MD doesn't like this type of drug either because of the addictive aspects.  She did however prescribe Wellbutrin which made me so jittery, I could not continue with it.  And, Jaded, my T says I am indeed suffering from PTSD.  Taking a xanax and going back to bed for 30 minutes actually allows me to get out of bed.  Weird but true.  I have actually spent two days in bed worrying and brooding and just plain scared and then hunger drives me out to the kitchen.  And, Patz.  Making decisions is really hard right now.  I'm so afraid I'll make the wrong one and then Mr. Entitlement can say see, I told you....she's stupid, crazy etc.  I think maybe my real problem is that I have always been very capable.  I've even flown the Good Year Blimp!  I've chased bank robbers into parking garages, ducked bullets during hostage take-downs..etc. etc.  ( I worked in TV News, please don't hold that against me )   So I'm even more critical of myself since this situation seems to have me totally snookered.  I think when I am not panicked, I am mad at myself.  I'm mad because the panic keeps me from doing things.  OK...new question:  My T says in ordinary circumstances I would not need any meds.  OK....I agree.  And she says I will just have to wait this one out and be good to myself.  My panic says there will be no more "me" left and that this will never end.  I think the fact that my n mother did not leave the house for over 20 years because of some kind of anxiety thing is really scaring me also.  However, she still managed to control all of us.  I think it's helping just to put this in writing but still want to hear what you think.  I don't ordinarily whine and snivel (which is how I perceive myself right now) but I'm really scared.  If I can't pull myself together, how can I advocate for myself with my lawyer....and in court....oh the list goes on....thanks for listening.

[Stormchild Guesting]

dogbittles, did your mom take valium? it has similar side effect problems...

glad you tolerate alprazolam well and have low caffeine use...

actually, i admire your guts as a live journalist. you went unarmed into incredibly risky situations. that takes even more guts than police work does.

((((((((((dogbittles))))))))))

[d's mom]

I think maybe my real problem is that I have always been very capable.  I've even flown the Good Year Blimp!  I've chased bank robbers into parking garages, ducked bullets during hostage take-downs..etc. etc.  ( I worked in TV News, please don't hold that against me )   So I'm even more critical of myself since this situation seems to have me totally snookered.  I think when I am not panicked, I am mad at myself.  I'm mad because the panic keeps me from doing things.

hi  dogbit(tles) :} cool about the blimp... im sorry about feeling not great... i think the paralysis about decisions comes from they way they make you fear retalilation.. if you get habituated to retaliation no mater what you do, it can get paralysing, and you lose faith in yourself... like learned helplessness....  

but - you do sound all kinds of capable usually....  theres  some techniques  ive heard of for panic, one of them is breathing very deeply.. as a journalist doing all that stuff you must have techniques for staying calm?? like breathing deeply through your nose. sometimes i have done math to re-focus. the entire time i was sitting in court, swear to god, i was counting by threes in my head. (im not great at math ) it was keeping me calm.   also ive heard of wearing a rubber band on your wrist.

you wear a rubber band around your wrist and SNAP it against your skin. that can bring you back down when you are going off into your head...... i guess everyone feels and responds to panic differently. im also one that needs to just get in bed sometimes. i think with your mom, and all those of that generation, a lot of people never got out of bed becuase they didnt have the medicines they do now. if it werent for medicines invented in the last ten years or so - i would be one of those that probably did not ever get out of bed  my family would never understand why either.

those are just ideas i thought of reading what you wrote.
take care :}}  
anna

[dogbit]

I knew you all would come through for me.  I think the crux of the matter for me is what Patz and Anna have mentioned:  Making decisions and fear of retaliation.  Storm....the cops would beg to differ with you about who is in most danger   and thank you for the complement.  (We were not allowed to carry guns so I agree with you!)   When my adrenaline is up, I have no fear.  But if I know I have to go across a bridge I experience sheer terror.  But in looking back, my terror about bridges had a lot to do with why I was crossing that bridge.  For example, when I lived in Boston, I had to go across the Portsmouth, NH bridge to get home to visit my n mom.  Palms would sweat so badly I would have to wipe them off...Once I even turned around and went back to Boston.  Maybe it had a lot more to do with visiting Mom?  And in San Francisco, the Bay Bridge is 7 miles long....I actually would occasionally call in sick if I knew in advance our assignments meant going across it.  But I was also working with a lot of very self-absorbed, dominating, macho types and to say anything indicating weakness was a big no-no especially if you're the only girl!   (The damn thing collapsed during the '89 quake affirming all my fears!)  I'm trying to be kind of funny but this is a real issue for me.  I hate feeling incapacitated by fear especially when I don't know what I am afraid of.  But you really have me thinking about fear of retaliation and fear of making a decision that might bring retaliation.   Currently, my husband is trying to "kill" me financially so I will acknowledge his entitlement to control, superior intelligence and my error in actually leaving him.  I suspect that this might be the mechanism that creates the panic especially because being anxious seems to have come and gone in my history.  So now I have to remember what seems to bring it on and then maybe I'll know why I really am scared.  Thanks for listening ... I feel a lot calmer.  And the green tea really helps also.  My dog drinks chamomille tea.  Sleeps like Rip Van Winkle after her nightly cup.

[mum as guest]

Dogbit: just catching up with your thread tonight. I'm sorry you married a giant puckering ......
But I am glad you are getting away.   I understand your fear.
 I suffered, to a lesser degree, debilitating fear as you described...brought on by contact with my ex N husband.   I am fairly certain my children have the same types of fears in regards to their own relationship with him. I still have ongoing court proceedings with my Nidiot (like my new word?) and still an occassional stomache flip when I get a nasty email  (like, daily), but I don't stay there with that feeling for too long anymore.

You are under attack.   Whether your fear is "real" (as in there is an immediate physical danger to produce a fight or flight reaction) or just imagined (based on experience) doesn't matter to your brain.  (um, yours is pretty vivid!)
I foolishly thought  that when I finally got up the courage to leave the cheating, lying SOB, that (since it was the SCARIEST thing I had ever done) that I would be home free in the fear department after that.   Not so fast!
I didn't realize that NO ONE LEAVES HIM, damnit, and that I would eternally pay for my "transgression". He has commited his life to destroying mine, even if it means using his own children to do so.

When I first realized this, I became extremely depressed and the fear  deepened.   REALIZING all of this, becoming aware of all of this, was for me, the first step in breaking free. (mind you we have been divorced since 96 and these realizations are only in the past year....I'm a slow learner)

Stepping OUT of myself, as it were, and looking at what was going on inside my head, as an observer, was essential for me to understand and then move past the pain and fear.  I am not "healed" forever....pain and fear will plaque all of us as long as we breathe, but USING the pain, looking at it, saying it sucks, it's scary, I don't know what to do with it....is the first step in moving through it.  Through it. Not around it, over it, or ignoring it, but right straight through it!  

The right information, the right words, the right book, person, concept, will come your way, now that you have opened to the possibility of having something different for your life.  There is so much help, so many who have come through the fire, that you are sure to find the help you need out there (or even here).

This is your path.   This pain is part of you....don't reject it or deny it or try to hard to fight it. Pain/fear is a tool, neither good nor bad. It's a symptom or sign to make us NOTICE something about oursleves....or to learn something.  It's not meant to be a way of life....it's not meant to be our life purpose. You recognize that, and that's why you left thejerk and why you posted.   This fear, this struggle is not all bad.....It could be the making of you.  Well, actually it already is.

 It's the "lumps in your batter" as Debbie Ford would say...all lumps that when mixed in make a delicious cake...you (corny, I know, but a nice thought)

Here's to you....getting throught it, lumps and all.  Sending you light and love.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dogbit and all:

.... I will acknowledge his entitlement to control, superior intelligence and my error in actually leaving him. I suspect that this might be the mechanism that creates the panic especially because being anxious seems to have come and gone in my history.

These thoughts:  "He is the most worthy of the control", "He is more intelligent than I", "I made a big mistake by leaving him", etc. are very powerful and most certainly...induce a negative, downward spiral of thinking.

We all do it.  We don't all have panic attacks or paralyzing fear all the time but we all let ourselves get thinking in this direction, sometimes.

Sometimes, this is a good thing because we admit our powerlessness over others and might actually end up examining some of things we can do to change ourselves/reactions/environment, and decide to make changes for the better=life happier for us.

And sometimes, this accelerates into a whirl wind ride into the deep abbyss, that is full of terror and seems impossible to pull ourselves out of.

The trick....is to catch oneself.....thinking stuff that has this potential.
Literally arguing with oneself....mentally....and correcting unrealistic thoughts.

"He is the most worthy of the control".

Over what?  The world?  Your mind?  Your future/happiness??
Maybe he has a good bit of power over the money, right now (just guessing here) but so what?  Money isn't sanity.  Money isn't life and freedom and emotional comfort.  Money isn't happiness.  Ask anyone who has lot's.  He won't always have all the control.  There are legal ways to take some of it away.  And if not, let him cuddle and love his money.  You have your life!  Your sanity!  You future and your own potential to create your own happy life ahead of you.  AND YOU ARE WORTHY OF SO MUCH.
He's not entitled to control your life, your sanity, your future, your happiness........you are entitled to that and you are the one capable of achieving your desires.  He is definately NOT ....MORE worthy/entitled to anything.  You are just as worthy as anyone else.

"He is more intelligent than I".

Says who?  What....he's a rocket scientist now?  If he was, he wouldn't be so stupid as to treat you the way he did and lose a good relationship/person in his life.  He's dumb enough to think that money/other stuff is more important than love or happiness or sharing.  He's not so bright, if you ask me.

"I made a big mistake by leaving him".

You did?    What?    You can't be serious!  It was one of the most correct things you've ever done (which only you can say that to yourself because I haven't got a clue about the correct things you've done but my bet is there are pleanty of them, if you will be considerate of yourself and take account).

I could go on and on for an hour, debriding each of these statements but I'm sure by now, my point is clear.

It seems to me, to avoid such panic and fear, we must get a handle on the negative thinking that occurs just prior to the attack.  Maybe if you can recognize that first unrealistic statement your mind is making, grab ahold of it, and squish it......it will help to turn the tables??

If not.....it certainly won't hurt to try to put an end to this type of berating yourself.  He's probably done a lovely job of that for you already and why help him do more?  It's time to take care of you!!

GFN

I'm sure you are a much more