Author Topic: New and down and out  (Read 9178 times)

astrofemme

  • Guest
New and down and out
« on: April 30, 2005, 07:06:02 PM »
I just found this website.  I found out almost two years ago when my 30 year marriage broke up that I was married to a Narcissist.  At that point, I didn't really understand what narcissism was really all about.  I thought it was just about people who were overly concerned with their appearance.  I now know I have a classic narcissist mother and sister and an absent father who may be narcissistic as well.

Reading up about narcissism has explained a lot in my life history.  I was attracted to the ex because he seemed laid back when compared to my parents and he was very charming and popular (of course).  I thought I had won a prize.  He was a prize alright.

Right after the divorce, I was getting by okay, I think because it was like having an infection drained.  I was exhausted but doing better in many ways.  Then I went through a period where things were looking up and getting better and I was feeling pretty good.  That ended when I had an unexpected health problem which I'm mostly over now.  However, I think I'm sliding into depression.  I feel like I was flattened by my ex.  I have no support network because he was jealous of friends and I have so many NPD relatives.  

I work hard to rouse myself.  Some days are good; some aren't.  I guess I'm wondering if I am just expecting too much too soon out of myself considering what I've gone through and am learning about?  Is this a normal stage of recovery after what I've gone through?  What are the special circumstances survivors of narcissism go through?  I want to feel good again.  When will I crawl up out of this black hole I'm in?  Did any of you going through this have a period of feeling like you were in a deep, dark hole?

Brigid

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2005, 07:18:17 PM »
Dear Astrofemme,
Welcome to this site.  Many people here have experienced similar feelings and have had to crawl out of that black hole.

My N husband of 23 years left me quite suddenly 20 months ago.  We are soon to be divorced and I am much better today, but I was certainly in that black hole of depression for some time.

Are you in therapy?  Taking any meds?  My therapist has been a Godsend and the one to explain that my H is N.  Otherwise, I would still be blaming myself and wondering how he could have done it.  I was on antidepressants for 6 months or so and those really helped to clear the fog and make me feel a little better.

If you are still dealing with this after 2 years, I would think you might need to see a professional and find out what is going on.  You said you were better for a time and then had a medical setback.  Is that the only thing that happened to put you in this funk?  

There are others here who have more knowledge and experience than I, so I'm sure you will get the help you need.  Keep posting and hopefully you will start coming out of the hole.

Bless you,

Brigid

dogbit

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2005, 07:38:25 PM »
Yup!  I've been in the deep dark holes myself but I always seem to come back up for air.  If you have been involved with people close to you, ie., husband, relatives who are very narcissistic, you probably have had a pounding done on you so it's no surprise that you feel down.  I agree with Brigid that you need to reach out to everyone who may help you and ask for help.  Medication is good and talking is the best!  One other thing to consider is that this is not your fault!  The best thing I did was to have absolutely no contact with those in my life who were "toxic".  It is extreme but it gave me the room I needed to figure out who I used to be and who I used to be wasn't bad!  Take care....Keep posting...you are not alone!  Bittles

miaxo guesting

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2005, 08:26:09 PM »
Hi.  Welcome to the board.

I too had a delayed reaction and was blindsided by anxiety and depression about a year and half after my divorce.  I attribute this to the fact that I was so precoccupied during my divorce with my 2 yo daughter, newborn, and running back and forth to court that I didn't have time to really process what was going on when it was actually happening.

Do you feel that you are having a delayed reaction?  Or did something very specific happen recently that triggered your feelings of depression?

Don't hesitate to go to a doctor if you are finding that you can't cope with daily life.  Believe me, doctors today have heard everything under the sun and nothing you say will shock them. Unfortunately, they have heard it all before.  

If there is anything I can do please PM me.  I know how that dark hole feels.  I pulled myself out of it with some help from others and you can do the same.

God Bless.

Mia

write

  • Guest
hi and welcome
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2005, 11:48:42 PM »
it takes a long time to expunge all the anger and pain and emptiness that trying to be in a relationship with an npd causes. You've given so much, taken so much nonsense, and are left drained and wondering if you wasted a whole chunk of your life.

Depression has happened to most of us here.

Therapy has helped me, organising doctors and now another psychiatrist. And medication.

I've just had the year from hell but I'm sitting here tonight typing and humming softly, about ready for bed, peaceful. Not every day ends so well.

But if I can make it through the quagmire that's been my life and come out the other side- you will too.

Start with an assessment for depression, and when you're able start building a new support network away from narcissists and toxic people. I found a church and did voluntary work to keep me busy and with people- even though at times with my mood or illness I didn't feel really with them, but in time I made good friends who are supportive.

When I was depressed I had to learn to accept that people do care, but not always in the ways or time-frame you want them to respond.

I'm rambling, time for bed.

Take care ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

mum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1036
New and down and out
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2005, 12:08:04 AM »
HI,Astrofemme....love the name.
I'm sorry you are having a tough time of it.  I think most people here, have been there, and are right there with you, remembering days (maybe even today) when the N battles have just taken a toll.

You asked when you would crawl up out of the big black hole.....
the answer is NOW!  You are already on your way out.  You have acknowledged you are in one.  That is HUGE.  You have reached out to others for support, opening up to the possibility that getting out of that hole exists.  BEYOND HUGE.
Okay, so it doesn't sound like much, but taking that first "step" is how it starts to happen.

Do you have a therapist you can talk to?  I was surprised at how much counseling helped me.  And it wasn't just that one therapist who helped, either. Because I was making an effort to get help, other opportunities for help came my way, sometimes almost miraculously.  Books, tapes, friends, other counselors, all started popping into my life, once I opened the door to healing.  I am not free of pain for the rest of my life now.....nobody is....but I am much more resilient, I know I can get back up when I'm kicked down (and believe me I've still got a live, kicking N-idiot ex husband)
The point is, it can be done, if you WANT to do it.  (and you sure sound like you want to).  You can have the kind of life you want, as soon as you know what that is.   So figure out what it is you WANT (and don't just think about what you DON"T WANT...I know that one is tough) and support, love and light will come your way.
Bless you.  You deserve happiness.  You will have it.

Anonymous

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2005, 06:24:54 AM »
Hi astrofemme

I am new here, and 15 months out of a 23 year marriage to an n or a p, I cannot decide which but he is definately skewed. I had to leave my sons (18 &22) who are both brainwashed by him and have been cool towards me with little contact initiated from them. He ended the marriage but wanted us to live together. What he meant was that he wanted to do whatever he wanted and me not say a thing, or just a new way to mentally torture me. I seemed to be in adrenalin for quite a while, (with times of extreme distress) after I left, and needed not to deal with it properly as I had to set up home after I came out of the refuge. But the black hole has really hit now and I see I have Complex Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome. I am seeing two cousellors 2 hours a week, and it is really helping me so much and I am so pleased that I got help to work through it all, 23 years of trauma. I also see that my family from whom I was isolated during the marriage, but who I turned to for support afterwards, are actually toxic to me so I am totally alone now, but meeting people through college and a support group. I am still grieving for my sons but have had to distance myself now as they treat me so disrespectfully unless they want something. Yet I am the one who was ullied and forced out of my own home when I was vulnerable being 55 and having ME and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. I feel so alone. I am pleased to have found this board though.

Mati

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
New and down and out
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2005, 06:40:47 AM »
OK got logged in, that was my post above

daylily

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Re: New and down and out
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2005, 10:36:36 AM »
Hello Astrofemme,

I'm not an "old-timer" here, but I can certainly vouch for the level of support and concern you will find here.  I think you made a wise choice by coming here and letting us get to know you.

And one thing you can do for yourself, starting today, is just that:  let us get to know you.  The folks here (myself included) are genuinely interested in who you are, what you're facing, how it feels.  I think a big part of climbing out of that hole is letting other people into it.  Once you do, it doesn't feel nearly so confining or dark.

I haven't been through a divorce, so I don't know how long it takes to heal from that--though I suspect a long time.  I do know that long-term involvement with an N leaves deep wounds that take years to heal, and in some ways never do.  One of the most potent consequences of the narcissistic personality, I think, it that N's suck all the air out of the atmosphere around them.  They appropriate, and then consume, the life force of whatever system they happen to be in--a marriage, a parent/child relationship, etc.  There's nothing left over for anybody else.  You spend all your effort in the care and feeding of a vacuum.  It's more than exhausting; it's defeating.  So the feeling that you are empty, bereft of energy and drive, is quite natural.  You've spent many years of your life using your energy to feed someone else's.  When that person is gone, you don't suddenly have a "surplus" to give yourself--you have a landscape where the air doesn't move, where everything is waiting to see which way the wind will blow, or if there will even be wind at all.  Add to that a health problem, and it's really no wonder that you're feeling like you have nothing to give, even to yourself.

Therapy helps for most people.  I think the primary benefits of therapy are, first, that you give yourself permission to pay attention to yourself and, second, that you have a supportive guide in the journey.  Therapists are like tour guides through the interior landscape--they may not know you, but they know how it looks to be facing what you're facing.  They help you not to be afraid, and that is very beneficial.

One thing I find here is that people are very open about their experiences in therapy, and that's really helpful.  It's another way in which you are not alone.  And if you have questions about therapy--how to look for a therapist, what if you don't feel you're ready for it, etc.--I think everyone here will be more than happy to help you answer them.

I hope you'll continue to post here.  My thoughts are with you today.

Best,
daylily

Stormchild Guesting

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2005, 11:08:32 AM »
Welcome astrofemme and Mati.... I can't add much to what's already been said here, except -- believe it, the folks here are real.

Complex PTSD will act a lot like depression, too, but you know that. And it can take a long time to emerge from it, since it takes a long time to fully develop it. Don't despair, time and awareness and validation from others are the best healers, with meds too if your chemistry can use a kick  :) .

hugs - and you're not alone - we're here -

Stormchild

Mati

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
New and down and out
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2005, 12:14:36 PM »
Quote
Don't despair, time and awareness and validation from others are the best healers, with meds too if your chemistry can use a kick  .

hugs - and you're not alone - we're here -

Stormchild


Stormchild, thanks for that. I sure wish I could take meds sometimes  :(  But yes validation is really helpful. The worst effect of the PSD for me is the mush my mind has become, especially I have started to study to get a degree but counselling is making a big difference. I have been impressed by the support I have seen here from reading through the threads. I wonder if anyone has any words of advice on how to deal with my sons? I got a book out for children of n's and one of my sons read it. He accepts that his father has a personality disorder but due to me expressing the p's anger, he thinks that I have a PS  as wel even though I told him that a psychologist gave me a clean bill of health as far as that goes.  His father has so manipulated things that my sons do not trust or believe me despite my total honesty.  [/quote]

Stormchild Guesting

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 05:10:27 PM »
Did you know "Mati" can be sort-of-Russian for "Mommy"?

Very sweet.

Has your son ever been in joint therapy with you? Family therapy can help a lot with the credibility issues. It might not be a bad idea for him to know the therapist, see you in the context of counseling, and be able to air his concerns in your presence with the t there listening in a nonjudgmental supportive way.

Just a notion.

(((((((Mati & sons)))))))
(((((((astrofemme)))))))

Anonymous

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2005, 06:06:15 PM »
Astro:

Welcome to this site.  As you can see from the post of Bridgid and dogbit (Bittles) and others that depression is part of it.  One step forward, two steps backward.   I also had depression after my N experience.  Woke up with a black cloud, went to bed with a black cloud.  Some days it was just an effort to get my child off to school.  So are  you expecting to much...probably not, just wanting to get back to some centeredness and wondering how to get there in a hurry.  All I can say it is a process, on that you have to allow yourself to work through.  I also had an very N backgroud, absent father, looking back a borderline personality mother, and two N brothers.  So welcome to the club. Please post here because this is a place of understanding and sanctuary.

Patz
Keep on Keeping on

Brigid

  • Guest
New and down and out
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2005, 06:39:41 PM »
Mati,
Welcome to this site.  I'm sure you find it supportive and helpful as you work through your situation.

How old are your boys?  My son is 20 and I have just started to explain his father's N condition.  Because my soon-to-be-ex N H never demonstrated the rage or abusive behaviors that more outwardly show an N personality, our family did not have an awareness of the problems he had until he quite suddenly decided to leave the marriage 21 months ago.  He used charm, humor and a lot of lying to manipulate our lives and hide his behaviors.  Fortunately my T had my H in therapy while we were in marital counselling, so he was able to identify the N personality and make me aware of it.  

I felt it was necessary for my son to have an understanding of it in case I died tomorrow and he would have to work out his relationship with his father.  I have not discussed it with my 16-year-old daughter, but will in time.  My son and I are very close and he has a lot of anger over what his father has done to me.  I think it was almost a relief to him to hear that his father had a personality disorder rather than think of him as just a lying, cheating, sh*%head.  If he had any doubts or questions, I would bring him to my T, but so far he is accepting what I have told him.

I have tried to remain as level-headed as possible through an impossible and devastating situation so that my children can have one stable parent.  Not always easy to do, but getting my kids through this in one piece has always been my first priority.  I guess that would be my only suggestion as you try to work through this with your sons.  Continue to support them and love them as they come to terms with the man their father is.  I'm sorry that you are having to deal with the PTSD.  It is so much to handle at once.

My prayers are with you.

Brigid

Mati

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
New and down and out
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2005, 03:22:14 AM »
Hi Stormchild (that's a good name)

No I did not know that Mati can mean mummy in Russian. Thanks for that. :D  I wish my son would come to therapy with me but he has already refused family counselling. I will broach the subject as it is great idea. I need to think carefully about how to present the idea as his trust of me has broken down so much. He does accept that he has had a disfunctional childhood and went to see a counsellor himself at my suggestion but it did not go well as he said that she told him in the first session that things were not as bad as he made them out to be (by this I gather that he trotted out his issues with me) and that he should get a job!! So much for understanding emotional distress! I told him that he is not a wimp and that she did not understand what it is like to be a victim/child of the personality disordered and that his sense of reality has been twisted so that normal parental behaviour is then seen as abusive (this is how his father has controlled him and won his loyalty) For example, during the period before I left when the psychological abuse was very bad, and n had my two sons ganged up against me, I looked in sons bedroom because I was worried that he was drinking there on his own. I did not go through his stuff but just looked in a cupboard and sure enough there was a pile of bottles (his father had hidden drink from my frequently during the marriage) I had only ever looked in there once, the rest of the time I knocked on the door if he was in and waited till he came to the door (he never invited me in) and often put his arm up across the door as if to hide something. (I was not allowed in either sons bedrooms or the garage, later I found that there was a pile of stuff in the other sons room, and garage that n had bought with some of the £46 000 debt he had secretly got into, and this being a man who has not worked throughout the marriage)  The result of finding the drink was that n and he said I had violated his privacy and his respect for me went totally after that and he has treat me very coldly. I knew that day that the relationship between my son and myself had completely broken down. This followed 23 years of little tricks to set us against each other. Unfortunately, because n did not work and was around most of the time and because I was sick with ME and he now has two excellent n supplies.

Brigid

My sons are 22 and 18. I have spoken a bit to the 22 year old about his father's condition in a non judgemental way but his father has succeeded in breaking the relationship down quite a bit. I have said little to the 18 year old, he will just react and even lies to defend his father. My 22 year old used to have a lot of anger towards his father and still has quite a bit but he has a lot of issues with me as n too did not express anger but got me to do it and played many tricks to make me blame my sons for things that he had done and pressed my buttons to make an argument where he looked like the innocent. What you have said Brigid has helped me so much as I had reached the point of giving up as I have tried so hard this last 15 months to improve my relationship with my sons to no avail. I started to detach from them and think that they will just have to lie in the bed they made when they backed up their father in his bullying of me, forcing me to leave my home and they have stuck up for him since then. I have tried to act level headed too so that they have one stable parent but have expressed my emotions a couple of times which caused a bad reaction from them. They excuse their father behaviour though, even though they are suffering for it and are made to feel responsible for him and his little dramas. Whenever we went into counselling, n always managed to manipulate the counsellor. He was the one to end our marriage too then a few months later after I left, said he had made a mistake. He agreed to marriage counselling but the first session was terrible and he sat lying and twisting things so that I refused to go again. I just cannot cope with having a counsellor think that he is the one being abused when i am having such a battle getting back into reality. After a few weeks of discussion I could see that he did not want to change so I said no to us getting back. Since then I have told him that seeing as he will not get into personal counselling, I am getting on with my life and have filed for divorce.
 
Yes I want to get my sons through this, but I need to do it so that my own health is not brought right down and so I can preserve enough energy to get my own life on track and can get some qualifications so that my retirement is not spent in the same struggle that my life has been. Thanks so much for your prayers :D I must admit that God has seemed so far away for a while.

Mati