How can I persuade my brother to get help?

[Hollow Cost]

Hi Portia,

I'm sorry to read you questioning yourself after my post. I understand your enthusiasm about this site...I, too, am a great fan of Dr. G. His essays, and the way he monitors our health on this site, is of great comfort. The site and its posts are often brilliant with compassion and information. The voicelessness theme is a simple, yet significant, description to clarify much trauma we have experienced. It finally gave me a name I could understand and relate to. Again, how brilliant.  This is something Mia's brother probably could relate to.

I thought about this the moment after I posted. Maybe he doesn’t see his sexuality as being his major problem, if he thinks he has any major problem? Maybe he’d be amused? Maybe he’d be overwhelmed that his sister cares so much? I don't know how he might feel.

My thoughts regarding how he might feel were very simple and different than what you question. I would not like others chatting about me without my knowledge or involvement. It could be considered an intrusion to him and his very troubling private issue. I would want to be involved in any conversation about me, if possible. That's all.  

Also, I never thought you were saying he had a personality problem...I was only claiming that a N can be most troubling and difficult to engage with...as well as affecting most anyone who is in contact with a N and/or their victims. This change is really hard work...but first it has to be recognized to even have a chance of beginning change...and that might define a "re-formed" N.

I'm so sorry he is so depressed and unhappy--especially with a supportive family.  It does sound like a bedside confession to his dad may have added some trauma.

In my past, the "coming out" gay men I knew always seemed to find it easier for a friend to take them somewhere to ease them into the comfort of their new lifestyle changes. This could help. Sure, bars, and the wrong gay type, can be disheartening.  But this is no different in the straight world. Maybe he needs a less critical eye for now and just have some fun and get comfortable. A night out with someone "not his type" does not have to define him.  I have a dear gay friend in the Boston area who is attracted to staight-looking gay men. He is picky and, by the way, handsome.   He too finds it hard to meet people but...it's nice to see him at peace with his life choices.  He is happy to be alone and happy to be with someone when he chooses.
As a straight and voiceless person, I have also come to respect my alone time, instead of it being shameful.  Again, a (gay/straight) human similar issue.  Maybe we, especially me, need not take ourselves too serious all the time.

His insecurities, as a gay man, may mirror many experiences in the straight and/or voiceless world. All that's different is that we stop looking when we think we found what's causing our discomfort or unhappiness. Not to complicate the issue, but rather to simplify it...maybe there's something more or different to consider, too.  Maybe the trouble is not gay life---maybe it's just life!

Good luck to all of us. Live simply and beautifully. I'm trying.  

P.S.  Maybe my handsome friend could help?

[Jaded911]

Hi Mia,

I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my post.  I hope you didn't feel attacked or offended by my post.

Something else I failed to mention about my dad was that he was raised in a strict Catholic family.  Three of his uncles were Catholic priest.  My dad  received all of his education in Catholic schools.  He told me once that the shame that he felt as a child going to confessions and what increased tremendously as he became aware of his sexuality.  

Someone posted that perhaps he felt voiceless..........I will say this, feeling voiceless is one of the most helpless feelings I have ever known.  I never experienced that before my N and I hope to never experience it again.  Perhaps if you offered your brother a non judgemental, empathetic shoulder to lean on, he would welcome the offer and open up about what is going on.  I understand how hard it is to hear about this subject.  I wanted to cover my ears at times when my dad would talk about his feelings or his bf crisis but I also gained alot of insight into my childhood when he came out of the closet.

They say that you cant be happy with anyone if you cant be happy with yourself and I truly do believe that my dad  was a miserable person, heck he isnt much better now but it allowed me to see that it was not my actions or my siblings actions that made him miserable all of the time.  It wa his inner struggles that tore him up.

Any yes, I know that gay people cant detect every gay person on the face of the earth.  I made that comment lightly, you know, jokingly.  At times, small comments on this forum are taken way to heavily.  If we could detect others sexuality or narcissism, we wouldnt be here would we?  Ask any gay person you know, most of them know the gaydar comment      

[Anonymous]

It does sound like a bedside confession to his dad may have added some trauma.

I apologize if I wasn't clear.  He told all the family but NOT my Dad.

Thanks for your input, Hollow.  You have great insight.

Mia

[Anonymous]

Hi Jaded,

I was not offended in the least by your post.  Everything you said was said with good intentions.

The gaydar quip was amusing.  Definitely something I can joke about with my brother.

I'm pretty laid back and I like to think open minded so please don't ever second guess your feelings or opinions as you post them.  I value your thoughts and advice.

God bless.
Mia

ps  I'm no longer Catholic but raised Catholic....even attended 12 years of Catholic School       I also had one uncle who was a priest and an aunt who was a nun.

[Portia]

Mia, Jaded, Hollow, all - sorry for maybe being 'tetchy', quick to have something rattled here. I don't believe sexuality is the root of problems, it's all the other stuff. Anyway, sorry Mia, I made a daft suggestion, please ignore. And the Gaydar joke Jaded - I've had people tell me seriously they believe in it, yes really, scary huh? Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anyway, sorry Mia, I made a daft suggestion,

Main Entry: daft
Pronunciation: 'daft also 'däft
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English dafte gentle, stupid; akin to Old English gedæfte mild, gentle, Middle English defte deft, Old Church Slavonic podobati to be fitting
Date: 14th century
1 a : SILLY, FOOLISH b : MAD, INSANE  
2 : Scottish : frivolously gay

Portia:
You are quite the character.  

On a more serious note, I think my brother would feel that his grappling with his sexuality is the root of all his issues.  Remember, this is just me thinking out loud.  

best wishes
Mia

[Portia]

Hiya Mia, I had no idea that 'daft' meant all those things, especially not the last   ! Showing my Northern English dialect. I say 'daft' all the time. We use 'daffy' too - "I'm just being daffy". Do you use daft? If not, will you now? (Although 'daffy' is too close to daffodil which reminds me of, o-oh, a certain N variety..) Thanks for that, I enjoyed it

Remember, this is just me thinking out loud.

.....I did remember this, too late, last night and metaph'y kicked myself...like this..   . I was just rolling up my sleeves and getting ready to go around your brother's house for a chat wasn't I? Getting stuck in without reading the question/brief properly. Thanks for saying it.

Back to the question. How can you help? What do you think now? Will you perhaps tell him you're concerned about him overlooking the shop staffing (I find the simple maths thing worrying, the lack of concentration, being distracted maybe...) - is he okay, does he need to talk....etc?

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia,

The last time I used the word daffy was when I was talking about Daffy Duck.  

I will talk to my brother about his forgetfulness and confusion over basic tasks.  At one point in the store I heard him mutter to himself, "What's wrong with me?"  When I went over to help, he asked me to please walk away.  So I did.  I didn't want to embarrass him.

Mia

[Anonymous]

Hi Mia,

a clarification: I didn't think this thread was offensive. I was suggesting deleting it if you wanted to give him info about the board - but that's 'daft', and would create a dishonest and contrived situation. More harm than good I would imagine.

About your last post. I guess you could try and see him when he's alone ..... and talk about only that incident - i.e. I heard you say "What's wrong with me?" and I wanted to talk to you, but you asked me to please walk away. I want you to know that I'm here for you, I care about you and you're not alone. I walked away because you wanted me to, but I'm still here.

I don't know what else you can do, except be available?

[Portia]

that was me...

[bunny as guest]

Mia,

I'm starting to think this has little to do with his being gay. He is like any other person who drops a few bombs on family/friends about being messed up, tormented, past all help -- of course eliciting many offers of caregiving and help. Then he rejects all of these offers, and keeps throwing out the loaded comments, obvious behaviors that worry and concern others. This puts EVERYONE IN AN IMPOSSIBLE BIND. THIS IS NOT About being gay. It's something else. He is being passive aggressive. I actually think you should back off on offering to help him. Tell him straight out you are here for him but you won't keep pushing it since he rejects your help. Give him some space to reconsider his taunting behavior. I would be pretty aggravated with him by this point.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi it's bunny again. Yes it is PARTLY about being gay (he feels in an impossible bind, so he puts everyone else into one). But he's using torment about his homosexuality to do all this passive-aggressive stuff. You can only do so much. He's an adult who can choose to get help, and he'd rather be a martyr. No one can force him to help. But sometimes a person can be subtly pushed by not catering to his acting out. And he is acting out big-time.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I wonder if your brother might be feeling a bit like someone I knew once who was gay but didn't want to be gay??

Can you imagine going to a therapist and saying:

"I'm Irish but I don't want to be Irish.  I want to be a Scott".

Wouldn't you feel like a complete idiot?

It just seems so scarey to think about doing that, doesn't it?

Just a thought.

GFN

[Anonymous]

Well.....I suppose to feel utterly that way.....it would have to be something like:

"My relatives came from Ireland but I want them to be Scotts".

 

GFN

[Anonymous]

bunny,

I don't know if I see him as being passive-aggressive.  

I do know that I feel a need to rescue him.  I guess I always have since we were kids.  My earliest memory of doing this was when he was about 8 and one of my friends made a very negative comment to my brother.  I asked my friend to apologize to him and friend refused.  I can remember jumping off my bike and kicking this girl's arse b/c she hurt my little brother's feelings.  He didn't ask for me to defend him....I just did it.  Now that I think about it, he never complained about it. By no means was I a bully...a little bit of a tomboy...who later developed into little Miss Priss.

Recently I had a discussion with my Mom regarding my brother.  She was telling me that my older brother felt that she (mom) favored younger brother all these years.  I don't know why they were having this conversation.  Anyway, my Mom went on to tell me that it wasn't that she favored younger brother but out of the three kids she always "worried" about him the most.  There's just something about him that makes you want to look out for him.  We all did it.  Even older brother.  

Perhaps if he is passive aggressive...we have been the ones encouraging it??  

All I know right now is that I'm confused.  Life can be so messy.  I have come to the conclusion that we are all f'd up in one way or another.  Some more severe than others.  Some willing to tolerate more than others.  

Sorry, I'm rambling now.

Mia