Dr. Phil show on narcissism

[MarisaML]

Moonlight,  something you said made me cry.  I think it was the part where you realized that your big sister "still loved you".  Oh that's so sad.  I mean it's happy but sad at the same time.  All that time you didn't know.  I don't usually cry while sitting at the computer reading on message boards.  But your story... I guess I could just picture it all in my head.  I could just imagine the emotions of my children going thru this.  And then you talking about your big sis and you singing at the beach just tugged at my heartstrings.  Being a mother makes me this way I suppose.  It reminds me of when my 2 boys came into my room one day.  My oldest son ran in first (he's 7) and he said "Mama, Amos (the neighbor's dog) scratched Dalton on the face!"  And my younger son came in (he's 4).  The dog is large and was probably playing but he did scratch him on the face.  Cody then said "But I ran him off!"  And then I said "Well, that's a good big brother!"  And then Dalton walked over to his brother and hugged him.  And Cody hugged him back.  And then with their arms around each other's waists they walked out the room together.  I could have cried then, it was sooo sweet.  These two brothers that sometimes fight tooth and nail do really underneath it all love each other no matter what.  And this applies to you and your sister.  And I'm glad for you that you finally got your sister back after all this time.  Good for you! 

[moonlight52]

Hi MarisaML That just goes to show what a great Mom you are and what great kids you have .But be cause of my grammar skills I am am artist
good with paint brushes bad with paragraphs.I did know all along my big sis loved me even when she didn't write me back.It really was not not that hard to know who she did not get along with same one everyone else didn't, mean N-FATHER .The N-father messed our family up  ,thats for sure.WHAT HAPPENED WAS I DISCOVERED 14 YEARS AFTER MY BIG SIS THAT OUR DAD WAS A N-DAD BIG SIS KNEW 14 YEARS EARIER. But I always knew my big sis loved me even if she could not call or write  .Somehow I just knew .Some people on the board are too young to know the song "blue moon " famous in the 1950's I have been moonlight a long time
and the letter from big Sis its a good thing!
moon

[MarisaML]

Moonlight,  there is nothing wrong with your writing skills.  You did write that in the first post and I didn't remember.  I'm very scatter-brained right now.  And I can relate to what you say about being more of an artist than a writer.  Drawing and painting has always been something I can do better than writing.  Although I talk a lot.  I have to admit that I'm not so skilled with my words and sometimes I get them jumbled up and say things in a backwards sort of way.  But anyways.  Your story still makes me cry.  And even though I wasn't around in the 50's I know that "blue moon" is a beautiful song.  Yes, the letter from big sis was a very good thing. If it sounded like I said it wasn't then that's the fault of my bad writing skills.  So have you got to see your sister yet? 

[moonlight52]

Hiya no not yet shes in the middle of redoing her house and our little 13 year old is still in school but SUMMER TIME I am thinking.
She lives very near beaches .I live in the dessert .So we will see we have connected .Our n- father will not speak her name .
Sounds like a list I want to be on.She was wounded ,I was wounded who would understand better than I ? She knew that.ALWAYS
We will see each other and won't that be a dear sweetness.
Hugs
Moonlight

[Plucky]

Hello all,
I've never seen Dr. Phil, although I do know that television can be edited to show just about anything.  This is just a shout out to Marta.  It sounds as if you are going through a lot of pain.  I am sorry this is part of the process but I imagine the process is a good thing. 
Lots of people up on the board care about you and want to offer support, and I am one of them.  Withdrawing may at some times seem like an action that will reduce hurt, but it reduces avenues to receive support, work things out, and heal.  Wishing you strength.
Plucky

[Marta]

write, thank you for listening. I owe you a big one.

Everyone, thanks for your support. I was not feeling well for several reasons and just threw up all over the place. I am really sorry about that. Better now and breathing fresh air.

Plucky, it is so lovely to have you back.

Marta

[Portia]

Hi Marta and Plucky

Good to see you both. Hang in there Marta, hope you feel much better soon.
Plucky, hope your situation is getting better with time.

I don’t get Dr Phil over here so don’t have anything to say about the show. Sounds interesting though.

[Brigid]

reallyme,

No way, Brig...I totally disagree on this!  The whole FAMILY needs therapy, not just that girl.

I don't disagree, but I'm guessing that they have been through that for years with this girl.  They had the diagnosis of a therapist that this girl was n and Dr. Phil did not agree, even though I'm sure he hadn't spent all that much time with her and we know how skilled n's can be at manipulation.  According to the father, the birth mother was convinced her daughter needed serious intervention before she died, so this had been going on for a long time.

I have a family member who finally had to send her son to that same school in Mexico and believe me, it is not an easy decision to make.  Everything the parents said on the show was true about the rules of the program.  You must prove you have tried every means possible to help the child and family prior to them accepting the child to the program.  Also, the child cannot have a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder.  It costs a fortune to send a child there, so it is not a decision made lightly.  I heard them say that the school is now closed, but my cousin researched it very carefully before sending her son there, and they had a history of helping many troubled teens, but you must follow their rules.

Brigid

[Marta]

Portia,

I wish no further contact with you. I ask that you don't respond to my posts and refrain from participating in my threads.

Thanks, Marta

[Portia]

No worries Marta, I’ll do as you ask. I won’t speak to you directly.

However, if I want to talk to anyone else – on any thread, including yours if you start one – I will. I want to retain the right to talk to anyone here, anywhere.

If you don’t wish to hear from me, fair enough, that’s okay with me. I’ll respect that. You can let me know if you change your mind.

[Sela]

I saw the show and my view might be a bit weird.

For one thing....I do believe some people are born with genetic difficulties that cause them to behave "badly" regardless of their environment.  Just because it hasn't been proved yet......doesn't do a thing for me.  It only makes sense that we can be born with deformities, diseases, disorders of all other parts...why not the brain?  For some reason.....it's something a lot of people seem to have a tough time with.  It's just easier to blame parents for everything.  I don't buy that.  I don't discount that environment has an effect and that parents can help make things better or worse.....but the bottom line is......if it's broke.....it might or might not be able to be fixed.   Who knows?

I liked the show because I thought Dr. Phil did a good job of trying to discard the labels and point out the facts.  He said, clearly, a number of times that the teen's behaviour was unacceptable.  He noted events that might have contributed to her inner turmoil and added to her behavioural response.  He took account of how the parents putting her in that school and not having any contact with her for a year........how they lied to her and told her she was going on vacation........how all of that might be seen from her point of view (and he did say that he couldn't abide by such rules that would not allow him to see his own child for a year)......he gave them credit for their effort/or at least expressed understanding that they were doing the best they could (the parents).  He blamed no one and pointed out that the only way to harmony is to work out the difficulties between the teen and her father, first, then bring the sibling in and finally the step-parent.

He did offer them hope and offered them therapy.

The teen may or may not be an N.  She has demonstrated difficult behaviour since she was a small child.  Events in her life made things worse.    He tried to encourage the parents to admit that some things they did might have contributed to her behaviour, which they seemed to have a tough time doing.  He tried to stop the family from scapegoating the teen and see things from her side a little bit too.   It seemed like he tried to present all sides.

I think by bringing the topic to the screen and trying to offer some hope.......he did a good thing.  If it helps others to see that they are not alone, that's a good thing.

I don't think that school in Mexico fixed her behaviour.  Maybe nothing will help.  Maybe by connecting better with her dad.........things will get better.    The father seemed to indicate that this was their last hope.  After that........if this doesn't work.......I get the feeling the whole family will all disown the teen.

I guess  I do feel sorry for her, even if she is manipulative and disruptive.  I like that Dr. Phil kept asking:

"Why?"

There may not be an answer but I think it's important to explore all avenues.  Is there a neurological problem?  Is it all emotional?  Why does she behave the way she does?  What contributes?  What will help?

All of that is stuff that people dealing with children with behaviour difficulties might ask after seeing the show and possibly......that will lead to attempts to find answers and get help.

Sela

[write]

I've always believed that if there's something wrong with my child's behaviour as a parent the first thing is- go to the mirror, take a long hard look at my behaviour and work out my issues first. That's been so helpful in our family.

Even so, it's easy to disregard your own impact on your child's development. My friend said a couple of years ago 'so you have outbursts, your husband has outbursts...your son has outbursts'; end of family outbursts ( well, give or take a transitional few! )
It would have been easy at one point to diagnose my son as bipolar, but he was just modelling his behaviour- and setting his behaviour 'in tune'- with mine & his father's. Until we changed, he wasn't likely to.

It's not about blame, it's about honesty.

Even if there are developmental problems or mental illness, maybe especially so, people can learn to manage behaviours and greatly improve family life and relationships.

By the time families reach Dr Phil- and frankly, what kind of family would take their problems public to entertain the nation is another issue-but by the time they get to this point everyone's problems are all meshed up and they're all acting out together. That takes some sorting out I'd guess. But the first thing is get everyone to see their own part in what's happening.

That was my biggest growth curve with my ex too- once I realised why I'd been with this man and his acting out all these years, me playing the saint, him driving me nuts...well you've heard most of that story before. But it was the turning point of my life- realising that I was in the relationship too, when I realised that enough of it was about me that I would go pick another dysfunctional or abusive relationship ( and did ) until I ended the pattern...lightbulb moment.

[moonlight52]

Hi Marta,
              I did not see the Dr Phil show .Was this part of what caused your distress The Dr. Phil Show ? I hope not.I believe we have had our relationships messed up from having N parents then we as adult children are left with the
          aftermath.We all just do the best we can .I have spent years hiding from my problems .I like being alone and reading a lot.But thats no way to spend ones life hiding in books.
         
          Marta I am hoping you feel better today ..............
          Moonlight

[reallyME]

Brig,

Thanks so much for your response to me.  I was not happy that Dr Phil discounted that the girl was narcissistic.  She looked exactly like other N's that I know, and one of whom happens to be my own daughter.  She had the same emotionless look on her face...flat affect, they call it, the same explosive temper when approached, and the same tendency to project.  I agree with all of what you said regarding Dr Phil's way of misreading Shannon.

As far as the school in Mexico, I believe you.  I"m sure it was not cheap and I also understand the family feeling like they would not miss her if she died.  People who have not been controlled by an N, had their identities stripped and lived with such a SADIST, would not "get it" that people wish these creatures did not exist.  I understand it all too well.

Today my best friend addressed 2 such N people.  The 1 main ringleader informed her that she was "Dorothy" from Oz and she was taking her other two friends with her to pursue the VISION and Destiny, and that if my friend decided not to join them, too bad, she was not coming back for her.  THIS IS A SO-CALLED MINISTER OF THE BIBLE!  MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT and REVOLT at the same time, because it makes other followers of Christ look nutty, to those who just us by her.

Marta, what gives?

~ReallyME

[Marta]

No worries Marta, I’ll do as you ask. I won’t speak to you directly.

However, if I want to talk to anyone else – on any thread, including yours if you start one – I will. I want to retain the right to talk to anyone here, anywhere.

If you don’t wish to hear from me, fair enough, that’s okay with me. I’ll respect that. You can let me know if you change your mind.

Portia, You made an excellent point. You also made it confidently, elegantly, gracefully, and succinctly. I am really glad that you made it. However, I don't owe you a check just because it is spring time and just because. I am just slowly beginning to cleanse my system of old toxins; I suppose you have no idea what I am talking about; you still keep talking about it too. By the way, recovering from a serious variety of diseases may entail either hospitalization or blood transfusion. From a first rate professional specialist no less; I mean the kind you will find in your health system directory not on this board. I've told you everything I need to tell you, nothing left to add. Au revoir and have a good life.