Author Topic: dark side of the moon- Help  (Read 10370 times)

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 12:07:09 PM »
I am happy to announce that I have been separated from N for ten weeks now. I nearly went mad when it first happened and cried for days and weeks. I feel more grounded now and even get some pleasure out of life. I survived Christmas. I missed the good side of him and was relieved that I didn't have to deal with the need for his approval anymore.
I want to talk about how it came to be that he labelled me sick and crazy.  This was a gradual process that began with his patronizing and arrogant condemnation of my feelings. My feelings were inevitably wrong. As time went on he became more dominating. He gained complete financial control of all income even though he was not working. He claimed that he was much more able to manage money than I.  I know now that he put whatever money he had into his toys of private mutual funds. Whenever I would ask about money he would say that I was having an episode ( manic depressive). This became frequent and he would say over and over "You are sick, you're sick!!" if I questioned him on suspicious behaviour. This must sound really strange to people. However, this was what I heard for months and I was isolated from friends and family.
He told my coworkers that I was unstable and losing my mind and becoming violent. He removed his antiques from the house and broadcast to his friends that he was removing them because I was mentally ill and he was afraid I would damage them. I would not damage them. What????? was he talking about? He told my daughter I was becoming violent. Anyway, it was like that movie with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman ie. Gaslighting.
I became unstable after all this craziness with money and fears of infidelity ( I was right. he was playing around with two women). I couldn't work and it was getting worse and worse. Finally, I pulled the pin on the relationship. He tried to get me fired from my job by getting me arrested. This is sooooo nutzoid.
So ten weeks later after going to a psychologist, a psychiatrist and a counselor ( I have a good rehab plan from work) I am doing pretty good. They have all said that I am remarkably sane given the stress from my job and the relationship. He called the psychologist and told her I had a gun in the house and was suicidal and homocidal.  She did not believe him and came to understand what I was coping with. I realize now that he was projecting a lot of very crazy stuff onto me. At the time I didn't know what was happening and it felt like I was living in Hell.
I feel used, insulted, humiliated, furious, hurt, sad etc about his family believing that I am bonkers. He set it up like that and told his new girlfriend that he has been living with a psychotic abusive bad woman etc etc. So the devaluing was very dramatic and served to excuse his leaving me for someone else.
As the smoke settles I feel relieved that I was released from such destructive insanity. However, the scars are defineately there.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of devaluing. To the point where he involved family, friends, police and may workplace????

I am feeling a bit shakey after Christmas and please excuse the length of this letter.

Sea Storm 

Margo/Tremusan writes:

Wow..... and the amazing thing is..... it takes a while to undo all this stuff.  We actually start believing we're unstable, and I suppose we are, lol.  We're just unstable for the EXACT opposite reasons the N's say we are.  We've been driven there by them. 

My N worked at making me feel terribly guilty about all the time he worked and about spending the money he made.  I was basically all alone during 2 pregnancies and their births.  The guilt he made me live with made it easy for him to have multiple lives with other women.  Some were long term and some were just women he screwed and made feel cheap and abused by ignoring aftwards.  I couldn't ask for anything or he'd pull the...."I'm working so hard because I married you and had children" crap. 

He's been telling his family that I've been making him buy things, properties, cars etc.  He HAS to work hard because of my demands.  Now..... I'm afraid to buy groceries and cringe when the credit card bills come every month.  I agonize over buying the girls clothes.  His chief complaint about me to his girlfriends was that I was a spender.  He'd create arguments, move out and threaten to "throw your ass overboard" or replace me with a teacher with a degree to raise the children.  Cut off all money. 

When I caught him in one of the affairs.... surprised me by making larger fiscal threats and when I asked him to not come home that first night..... he came home in a weird mood.  He wanted to frighten me into letting him off the hook and this he did by saying we would simply get a divorce if I didn't stop asking questions.  Apparently he wasn't quite ready for my response..... I was fine with a divorce and went to get my jammies on and put babies to bed..... very cheerfully I might add.  He ended up choking and ripping out some of my hair that night when I calmly resisted him from taking all my credit cards, phone and car keys.  He'd planned to towe the car and leave me completely broke.  I was calm and in SHOCK during all this.  Afraid he was going to kill me.  I had no idea I was married to a crazy person.  I had no idea he was spending so much time with other women, not working.  I'm out of shock now but..... I still see white when I think of the danger he put us in.  When I remember the look on his face as he said "HOW DARE YOU?" for asking about the affair I caught him in, lol.  Amazing the craziness I've found myself in. 

I fell apart and honestly found it difficult to breath for a while there.  I sure couldn't eat.... lost about 20 pounds in a mThis all started the 24th of October.   During the weeks that followed..... he continued to threaten me about money and how he'd set the entire marriage up to screw me financially.  When I phoned his father, and mother.... to ask for help.... they told me the only problem was that I made him spend money and have to work so hard.  They pretty much called me a liar about the affair and his emotional and physical terrorism.  I was stunned.  I realized that they were actually enabling him to bully me.  Whether they knew the truth or not..... they would help him control me.  I stopped talking to them and wouldn't return his mother's phone calls about presents for the girls.  She actually had the nerve to sound put out in her messages, lol. 

I filed for divorce a few days before Christmas, after a particularly brutal phone threat session.  Not what I wanted for a Christmas full of out of town family and the main celebration at my home.  He closed his business down that very same day.  40 people crying and going crazy, jobless during the holidays.  The FBI on his doorstep over problems this caused.  Once he realized the courts were indeed involved, he got real real nice.  Just like my attorney said he would.  I was afraid he was going to kill me.  I was paralyzed and in pain... my back and neck were seizing.  My clothes were hanging on me.  It was eerie, to see him turn so nice and I'm still not buying a word of it.  He goes between being very very nice then making threats when I'm not "nice."  I know the monsters still in there.... even though he looks and acts like the person who conned me into marriage and making babies. 

My somatic N is now attending Sex Love Addiction meetings twice a week.  He's bending over backwards to spend time with us and has stopped fighting the divorce.  In fact, this completely made my head swim.... he's offering to put a great deal of his estate.... .even the pre marital assets... into my name if I'll drop the divorce complaint, alleging cruelty... and file a no fault I can file any time after giving him some time to work on himself and change into a better human being.  His attorney wants to know if he's done something that will put him in prison if the divorce discovery goes through.  I wonder about that myself sometimes.  I wonder about a lot of things.  I know so little about him.  ::shaking head:: 

My therapist is always so, I can't say amused, but he sure seems surprised and entertained during our sessions.   He thinks I'm very sane and as forthcomingly chocked full of information as anyone he's ever spent an hour with.  He saw my N ass shifty, unable to sustain eye contact and "the most unconcerned person he'd ever seen under these circumstances during 30 years of practicing."  These visits with the N were before I filed. He won't see him any longer because I was bent on the divorce and the N was bent on working on marriage.  herapist wanted me on paxil for anger management, at one point, which I've chosen to pass on.  I don't get much out of our meetings but being validated and talking to someone familiar with N is very important to me.  He gives me the occassional insight but moslty he's been trying to keep me focused on divorce strategy in the last couple of meetings.  It's like...... I've got things figured as best I can and have to simply wait and see what the N and courts do with us.  Very frustrating and still waiting for a darned temporary hearing, after 3 months of waiting.  Will get one mid April if it doesn't get put off.  Again.  Money not a problem now but..... it sure could be again if things stretch out and N goes back on warpath.  I really do fear that, no matter how strong I pretend to be.   Bringing a convicted murderer with him to help him move out of the house was an interesting twist.  He later said he was a vietnam vet with his father and had been institutionalized for Agent Orange exposure.... was the perfect hit man bc he had an alibi and was a Marine sniper.  My N can't help himself, really.  Or he would.

I'm not complaining.  Though the suspense sometimes seems to be killing me.  Answering the discovery has pushed N to make concessions and beg for me to drop divorce.  Though I told him I wouldn't stay married to him if he put EVERYTHING he owned into my name...... I'm sorely tempted to do that.... if only in strategy.  He wants to buy my cooperation, get another chance and sign a no fault divorce I can file at any time.  Not even sure if all that could be done, but... what he's talking about now.   Maybe he's trying to hide something else I'm not aware of.  An investment?  Where monies were spent?  Something emberrassing he doesn't want his family to know?  Maybe he's already plotted having me killed, lol?  Man..... ::shaking head::  The place I live right now, lol.  Sometimes I feel like the protagonist in the second Evil Dead movie.... when his own cut off hand was trying to kill him, lol?  Never mind, lol. 

God bless ya if you're still reading.... I realize I'm venting and it's long.   And yet.... I do go on, lol.....

Yesterday N asked me if I could be kind.  He then said he wanted to know if I could specifically be kind to his mother?  She's done more than call me a liar and try to help him squash me, btw.  I intercepted e mails where she called me an insatiably greedy goldigger.  She also went on to say that I wasn't an innocent in this.... she'd seen me flirt with the nasty sweaty fishy fly covered natives who work for us on a third world island.  Ya, sure..... she's a nice Catholic lady, lol.   She pretty much was laying out what she would do on the witness stand for him..... as far as lying went.  She said I was an unfit parent which is really rich bc her son hasn't even been present in their lives and that's all I do is research parenting and care for these little ones.  His idea of parenting is hitting and bullying.  I'm a very good mother... and it's my priority.  Always has been.  She sited some silly incident about my oldest dd having no panties on, under a dress in 99 degree weather, during a trip to a beachy fishing villiage as the reason I was an unfit parent...... AAHHHHHH SO ANGRY AT HER!!!!! She went on to say that he should't let me, the only present parent these girls have, get custody of the girls.  She doesn't give a rats tail about them at all or she wouldn't be thinking this way.  She offered to move to town to do his parenting for him, she certainly understands he won't ever do any with that statement is how I see it.   WHat the hell is she thiinking adn I CAN'T EVEN SEE STRAIGHT WHEN I PICTURE THAT WOMAN'S FACE NOW!    She sent an email right before Christmas saying N admitted to the affair, she was sorry for doubting me blah blah blah she hoped I'd be there for Christmas.  As if.  I sent back a very short e mail saying she'd failed her son, not me.  Save her apologies for him and kindly do no contact me again.  Merry Christmas.       Ahhhhhh...... can I now be kind to her?  I returned the Christmas gift they sent home with their widdle N.  I'll share the last e mail she sent that I intercepted...... it said she didn't think I was going to back down and he should get an attorney to really go at me.  She thought I was going to allege cruelty to me and the children.  Lordy..... she's quite a piece of work.  Not only does she not care if he actually did those things..... she's not talked to him about it AND she's going to help him set up his defense against it, whether she thinks he did those things to us or not.  Nice.  "Ya ya sure darling..... I can be kind to your mother again.  And sure..... I'll give you another chance to feed me sweet little words of poison and make me crazy.  See..... that's what decent people do.  They allow themselves to be preyed upon with no concern for their own welfare.   Yes yes darling.... for the children.  I wouldn't want to be the reason for all the damage divorced do... no.  Because I'm the one responsible, right?  The 7 years of blowtorching my ass (figurative)  isn't the problem.  That's it.  Ya ya..... right."  <tic> 

End long sarcastic rant.... and thanks for reading..... if you're still there. 

One last entry..... I forgot to mention he was stooping a woman who worked labor and delivery where I had my girls.  He left me at her mercy, never even showed up, and I had no epidural meds after second baby and nobody would help me.  The thing was wiggling in my back but the meds were puddling under my bottom...... Hmmmm....... I asked her about that during our one conversation and she admitted to reading my file and trying not to end up in the delivery room with me, lol.  She was on the floor and she was friends with the nurses who called me a bitch in the hall and rolled their eyes at my pleas for help.  Man oh man oh man.   I guess I should just shut up and be glad she didn't kill me or hurt my babies, huh?  Feel lucky.... or... .something.  Ya know..... I really don't.  I'm really really pissed.   I don't think she should be able to get away with it, if only the part of reading my entire file to my dh while I layed there in pain and he chatted about how my boobs (real) compared to her fake ones.  No.... I'm not quite ready to give up this anger just yet.  My attorney says that any time I feel like doing something about it to go see my therapist.  The N wrote out a statement and was prepared to go to the hospital and sacrafice her ass to calm me down some..... but attorney says not to change focus of who the bad guy really is and...... I figure she should be deposed BEFORE I start hammering at her in her workplace.  OK!  I really am ending this rant. 


mudpuppy

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2007, 01:21:03 PM »
Heh.
Margo, I know your anger is very real and what was done to you was and is horrible and frightening, but I hope you realize you are sitting in the catbird's seat.
 Remember the old Rolling Stone song 'Under my Thumb'? He is under yours and he knows it. His fear and phony niceness are your ticket out of hell.
There is no moral, legal or ethical reason why you should not press your advantage and get everything you possibly can from him in repayment for what he has done to you. You especially need to press your advantage to get him away from your kids as much as possible. The testimony of many others here is that he will use them to torture you in the future.

I believe it is wrong to seek vengence on a person and to repay them for what they have done to us. But it is not wrong to seek to be repaid by them for what they've done to us. That is just and well earned restitution not vengence, and it can never fully compensate us for the loss of our reputations and our peace of mind, but material things are all they have to give.

mud

PS. I wouldn't worry what mommy dearest has to say. Her e-mails and his behavior will trump any lies she has to tell.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 01:23:41 PM by mudpuppy »

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2007, 04:00:54 PM »
Heh.
Margo, I know your anger is very real and what was done to you was and is horrible and frightening, but I hope you realize you are sitting in the catbird's seat.
 Remember the old Rolling Stone song 'Under my Thumb'? He is under yours and he knows it. His fear and phony niceness are your ticket out of hell.
There is no moral, legal or ethical reason why you should not press your advantage and get everything you possibly can from him in repayment for what he has done to you. You especially need to press your advantage to get him away from your kids as much as possible. The testimony of many others here is that he will use them to torture you in the future.

I believe it is wrong to seek vengence on a person and to repay them for what they have done to us. But it is not wrong to seek to be repaid by them for what they've done to us. That is just and well earned restitution not vengence, and it can never fully compensate us for the loss of our reputations and our peace of mind, but material things are all they have to give.

mud

PS. I wouldn't worry what mommy dearest has to say. Her e-mails and his behavior will trump any lies she has to tell.


Margo/Tremusan wriites:  Ya see now, lol..... I KNOW I shouldn't let her, MIL, bother me.  But I'm just not quite at that point of forgiveness and God only knows..... ::sneering up nose:::  I'm just not able to, right now, lol.  I'm not.  ::shrugging::  I don't even know if I'll be able to let it go without having a little chat.  Will see.  Leaving her to stew, without any resolution or attention at all.... would be so much more effective and cost me so much less of myself.  Lordy.... reading that makes me think about how to talk about all this without sounding unhinged, lol.  Man..... who wants to believe all the things that N's have done to us?  Nobody.  We end up telling everything with emotion and we DO sound unhinged.  I know I do and I'm ready to stop.  Will give that some thought. 

As for being in the catbird seat... (I grew up with that saying) I don't feel like I'm there.  I'm still a bit under my N's spell.... sometimes I think he can and will do awful things to me if I don't give him his way.  Sometimes I think he's deeply evil and did set everything up to screw me with regard to money.  Honestly..... he probably didn't.  I invite him to open his war chest and have a party..... so he doesn't think he's intimidating me.  He probably wouldn't give me the time of day if he covered his pa tooty well.  I'm convinced he's coveting me as secondary NS..... then I think he's hiding assets or where he spent money (on men perhaps?!!?)  and this kind of confusion is toxic.  It's not good for me but it's my journey and it could be worse.  Oh well. 

Best to concentrate on the balls that will take me to better spaces though..... I realize that.  I just spoke to my N on the phone.  I admit it....... I convulsed in a funny throwing up face more than once...... and...... I thought about beating him quite badly with the phone I held in my hand.  This can't be good.  Esp when these things happen when he's telling me I'm the "mommy one" and he's going to take very good care of me.  I just want to yack but instead keep my mouth shut and the thoughts and the faces come no matter how hard I try.  I'm a 40something woman for cryin out loud, lol! 

::Giving self a stern talkiing to while shaking finger at same::  "Young lady you'd best get your priorities in line and stop wasting time on feeling resentful!"  There, lol!  That should straighten me out.  ::Eye back on the ball, eye back on the ball, lol::  Good Lord..... please help me to stop this dizzying cycle of watching all the pretty balls go around..... they surely aren't all of them important but..... how do we really really reallllly move past them?  I guess I'll go back to writing and re writing and writing again about things that are bugging me.  Get them staight in my head and behind me.  I;ve done this before.  I can do it again.  Concentrate on that harvesting of payback from the N.  Yes..... I can do that.  We all can, if we're making thoughtful decisions and dealing with our emotions instead of running from them and being haunted by them.  ::Eye on the ball, eye on the ball::  Thanks for the pep talk Mudpuppy: ) 

As for

Hopalong

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2007, 04:25:00 PM »
Margo,
In two years, or one...you will feel newly that your own energy is a precious resource.

Please DO keep you eye on the prize. That is a completed divorce.

It's not the perfect comeback, or last word.

It is a completed, legally sound, settled divorce.

I wouldn't turn down the Paxil if you need it to stay calmer. You need your body and mind intact more than you need your wrath.

You will have the rest of your life to spend in peace, or in wrath when you need it.
Right now you need to be your own steadying friend.

I'm so glad you posted all this. What a nightmare.
From a distance, I will say I see better dreams for you, without his face in front of them.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2007, 04:26:10 PM »
PS for Margo...

Your anger is N-SUPPLY for your stbx and his mother.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2007, 04:53:24 PM »
Margo,
In two years, or one...you will feel newly that your own energy is a precious resource.

Please DO keep you eye on the prize. That is a completed divorce.

It's not the perfect comeback, or last word.

It is a completed, legally sound, settled divorce.

I wouldn't turn down the Paxil if you need it to stay calmer. You need your body and mind intact more than you need your wrath.

You will have the rest of your life to spend in peace, or in wrath when you need it.
Right now you need to be your own steadying friend.

I'm so glad you posted all this. What a nightmare.
From a distance, I will say I see better dreams for you, without his face in front of them.

love,
Hops



Margo/Tremusan writes:  OK...  I know you're right.  Internalizing it will just take a bit, lol.  Still sorta new, ya know, lol? 

In the meantime....... setting my N up to put things in  my name then divorce him soon after.... regardless of his behavior, is his worst fear.  I struggle with that.  I am a very nice person, IRL.  At least, I used to be. 

My attorney doesn't want me on any drugs, esp if the N puts up a battle for custody.  Also..... this isn't the best but.... sometimes the anger carries me through.  Sometimes it gives me the energy to get past a challenge.  To research and collect data that will help me in court, etc.  To tell ya the truth.... sometimes it's hard to keep moving and shaking.  I can and I know how but... sometimes it's just really really hard. 

Sometimes I think my N is being nicer bc he still gets NS from me.... and I've given him enough cold shoulder to really really really scare the hell out of him.  He's been in the cold and he's prolly a bit afraid to spend too much time harvesting or looking for new NS under the circumstances so...... ah well.  This is truly a circle I find myself going round and round on.  I've kind of perfected shaking the pleasure nugget at him.  Scaring him with suggestions that I am perfectly willing to go toe to toe and have information on him that will play out very badly for him in court.   I have very lucid moments of clarity where I understand exactly what I should be doing.  It's just hard to stay on track with it bc it's not something I would usually ever ever ever do.  Manipulate someone so overtly.  With such ill intent.  And I he'll be in our lives FO E VER, lol.  And then there's the anger at the mistress/es and the MIL and him and all his cronies and work people who knew what he was doing.  Ack!  He'll be here soon.... must get self together and be on the right ball when he arrives.  Thanks again for your input.  Tremusan

sea storm

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2007, 02:54:26 AM »
Margo,

You go ahead and rant all you want. You are in HELL with your exN and motherinlaw. I don't know how you held onto your sanity through it all. You must be very stable essentially.
I am in your corner and it will help to have people validate your reality especially when your N is trying to convince you that you are way off base.
I was glad to see that you expiated some of your demons by righting it ob out. There is probably a lot more to say. Your experience in labour was hair raising. I have started to pray for people and I am praying for you.

Hang in there. You are headed for the light and out of the dark. It feels so chaotic to exit all that insanity and it is a perilous journey but miraculously you can get there one step at a time. I see that you are doing that. Brave girl.

Love
Sea storm

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2007, 03:59:50 PM »
surprised me by making larger fiscal threats and when I asked him to not come home that first night..... he came home in a weird mood.  He wanted to frighten me into letting him off the hook and this he did by saying we would simply get a divorce if I didn't stop asking questions.  Apparently he wasn't quite ready for my response..... I was fine with a divorce and went to get my jammies on and put babies to bed.....

Tremusan,

Your story is alarmingly familiar--right down to the struggle to get temp orders filed.  My hearing for temp orders was in August and I did not get a legally executed document (because he wouldnt sign) until last week.  So, I really sympathize with you. 

My NH began by doing the same thing yours is.  First the threat--then when you don't react, the super-niceness.  Tremusan, you need to make hay while the sun shines.  The niceness will end when he realizes it doesnt work.  Then he will try abuse--and you have already been through some of that, so you know he's capable. 

I know the tendency to try to "prove him wrong".  He's trying to paint you as money-grubbing so you spend less money to prove that you're not.  You know what? It's a waste of effort.  He either knows that he's lying and doesnt care--or he's convinced himself that its true and won't be confused with the truth. 

The point is:  dont waste valuable time (and it is limited) while he's being "nice" trying to prove anything.  BUY THE KIDS CLOTHES.  And then put them away somewhere where you can get them out of the house in a hurry.  If you see a material need looming on the horizon--take care of it now.  Whatever cash you have will be split between you in a settlement.  That means you will pay for things like school shoes or swim lessons out of your half (because he will probaby not volunteer to help, and the court won't make him).  Take care of the kids needs BEFORE the assets are split.

It's so hard to get out of the mode that is still trying to please him and make him think better of you. 

Yesterday N asked me if I could be kind.  He then said he wanted to know if I could specifically be kind to his mother? 

This is the kind of garbage that went on at the end of my marriage as well.  I really wanted to justify myself, explain myself, expose his mom's behavior, etc.  But do you know what will buy you the most time? Agree with him.  Take your lawyer's advice--talk to your therapist. Don't say anything to NH.  Agree with him, so he leaves you alone and then keep preparing to take care of yourself.  You already know you are out of this marriage.  Don't try to "salvage" anything at this late date--even his opinion of you or his understanding of your relationship with his mother.

I'm rooting for you, Tremusan.  I'm just two steps ahead of you in the process and hanging in there.

CB

Thanks for helping to keep me focused......::shaking head:: Lord knows I know better, lol.  I can't believe how strong these emotions are.  I can't beleive that it does seem  SO SO important to tell the story and feel understood.... to make the people around us understand how wrong and evil  he's been.  But ya know..... that sort'a leaves me feeling schmucky too, lol. 

He's paying all the bills right now.  Going to go and have his attorney draw up an agreement.... not sure if it includes a no contest divorce or just the paperwork I can file if I want to later.  His conversation last night said we would would divorce.  This morning he was talking about staying married again.  He's so confused and unable to stick with a plan.  Keeps me exhausted. 

It's so unnerving to look at this man..... so pretty and soft and smooth.....  so nice to listen to and he's saying things I would have loved to heard around Halloween.  It's like being seasick..... with reality going in and out of focus all the time.  Madness. 

Thanks for the advice from up ahead.  I'll catch up soon CB.  Tremusan

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2007, 04:44:10 PM »
Margo,

You go ahead and rant all you want. You are in HELL with your exN and motherinlaw. I don't know how you held onto your sanity through it all. You must be very stable essentially.
I am in your corner and it will help to have people validate your reality especially when your N is trying to convince you that you are way off base.
I was glad to see that you expiated some of your demons by righting it ob out. There is probably a lot more to say. Your experience in labour was hair raising. I have started to pray for people and I am praying for you.

Hang in there. You are headed for the light and out of the dark. It feels so chaotic to exit all that insanity and it is a perilous journey but miraculously you can get there one step at a time. I see that you are doing that. Brave girl.

Love
Sea storm

Thanks Seastorm.  I seem to have highjacked your thread..... sorry about that, lol.  I think you and I were in the same essential space during Christmas and I will feel free to rant away.  It makes me feel much much better..... to do that....  I admit it, lol. 

Over Christmas I was really really angry and that anger carried me through.  He was being nice and we were acting essentially normal in front of everyone.  Crazy ass crazy, I tell ya.  If you saw us together today.... you'd never believe we are who we are together. 

I want to share this.... bc I basically believe this.  I do worry about who I am and what my goals are.  I do worry that I don't really know what I want out of life.  I'm very focused on helping my girls discover their passions in the world.  I never did and I think that's part of what let me be sucked in by my N.  He  made me feel very special and gave me something to do.... Lord knows being his slave wasn't exactly how he layed it out but...... his adoring workhorse single parent to his children scapegoat was the job description, I now realize.  I wasn't completely without resources.... I had my house about paid off with no other debt and was earning and enjoying life but..... there was no true passion.  I have to own that I was missing things in  my own life that made it easier for him to slide in and highjack my very being.  I LET HIM.  Im don't blame myself for wanting to feel special.... for I surely did.  I'm a little uneasy about the feelings of shame attached to that feeling of specialness. I don't want to be afraid to trust or feel  that way again. I want to be able to show my girls a normal healthy relationship and I can't do that if I'm bitter and ashamed of trying again. 

Ahhhh well..... I am hard on myself.  I had some passion in  my life.  I don't have that activity any longer.  I need to find and cultivate my own interests.  That's part of getting through this and recovering.  For us all. 

Hopalong

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2007, 05:30:41 PM »
Hi Margo,

I'm not very good with anger, I'm sorry I sounded unsupportive.
I didn't mean to be, but I hear that anger can fuel you to take care of yourself.

I am really glad you're doing that.
And I know that venting is a lifevalve sometimes.

Roar away! I'll learn. I'm glad some others here are strong with it.

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2007, 07:36:19 PM »
Like I said before, just nicely go through the divorce.  The thing I did wrong was occasionally throw sarcasm his way - or guilt.  I found that if I just nicely went about my business and got divorced, I could watch him go through all his gyrations.  Then watch him move on to his next victim.  I always felt sorry for those women (there has been one other wife and two other serious girlfriends.)  The wife and I laugh and shake our heads.  She told me some of the lies he said about me.  I just went about my life being nice to her and when she went through hell with him, she realized I had been the victim all along.  And then the next girlfriend - it must have made her wonder when we all attended the ex's dad's funeral and his whole family flocked to me not him..........hummmm wonder why they like Kelly better than their own relative????  Well, she kicked him out and now the next girl.  I wanted to warn them all but realized I would get his wrath because of course, they would go tell him....so I just sit back and watch.  The good news is he moved out of state so I just have to deal with him from afar and not very often.

That's my advice to you and CB....just be nice.....go about your business and try to move on.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Margo

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2007, 08:49:13 PM »
Like I said before, just nicely go through the divorce.  The thing I did wrong was occasionally throw sarcasm his way - or guilt.  I found that if I just nicely went about my business and got divorced, I could watch him go through all his gyrations.  Then watch him move on to his next victim.  I always felt sorry for those women (there has been one other wife and two other serious girlfriends.)  The wife and I laugh and shake our heads.  She told me some of the lies he said about me.  I just went about my life being nice to her and when she went through hell with him, she realized I had been the victim all along.  And then the next girlfriend - it must have made her wonder when we all attended the ex's dad's funeral and his whole family flocked to me not him..........hummmm wonder why they like Kelly better than their own relative????  Well, she kicked him out and now the next girl.  I wanted to warn them all but realized I would get his wrath because of course, they would go tell him....so I just sit back and watch.  The good news is he moved out of state so I just have to deal with him from afar and not very often.

That's my advice to you and CB....just be nice.....go about your business and try to move on.


All I have to say is..... it must be nice to be so sure about what you're dealing with and what to do with him.  I sometimes find myself doubting whether or not my N really IS an N, lol.  My therapist said you'd HAVE to be an N to do the things he's done to me.  I'm not altogether sure about anything, quite frankly.  Well.... I go in and out of being sure, anyways. Mr. Toad's wild ride, I tell ya. 

So glad you've found a safe perch from which to view your ex N and the havoc he wreaks.  So glad you're sharing your insights with us.  Really.  Thanks for the advice.  It'll help, I tell ya.  I was sarcastic more than I care to admit during our conversation last night and I can't stop heaping guilt on him whenever he talks about trying to redeem himself.  I sure hope it gets easier than it is now.  Thanks. 

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2007, 10:16:57 PM »
It will I promise but try not to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Sea storm

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2007, 10:38:22 PM »
Margo,
It is ok that you are writing on this thread. You are very relevant and speaking from your heart and I am listening intently.  I think it is GOOD that you are having feelings. They must feel pretty rough and tumultuous but you are grieving. Think of other cultures. The women really go at it.  Be nice when you can, the operative word being when you CAN. Otherwise have a lot of compassion for yourself. You really are entitled to your feelings. Who can argue with that.  So you are angry, sad, disappoiinted, disgusted and all the rest. It is very hard to disengage from a deep commitment even if it was to an N. There is a complicated grieving with these N mates. It is full of shock and betrayal and confusion and lies and doubting your sanity.  This is why you need a safe place to vent.  I hear that telling your story over and over will expiate the horror and trauma of it. This is pretty much affirmed everywhere in serious literature about trauma.

I can really see my self in you. Passionate, half crazed with longing for ex, spinning with disbelief about so much betrayal, feeling guilty for not being nicer, trying to minimize the damage when all the time you feel that he is going to gut you if he can. This is difficult stuff. Most people are not prepared for this and they can't listen to it. Even listening to the story is too much.

I feel very sorry for you and your kids. This is not deserved.
I don't know what to say except, just keep writing out your feelings.  I know i do better when I write too.  Oh yes, if you  phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.

Lots of love to you,

Sea storm

Hopalong

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Re: dark side of the moon- Help
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2007, 10:57:42 PM »
(((((((((((((((((Margo)))))))))))))))))))))

And Sea...sweetie, thanks for the only laugh I've had today! Totally true:
Quote
Oh yes, if you  phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.


I WAS crazed (probably that's why I had trouble hearing Margo's rant at first...uncomfortable memeory). But now that you mention it"

I wrote yearning, multi-paged single spaced letters explaining to him why my love was so true and deep and etetetetetetcetera that I just KNEW his: (lying, alcoholism, infidelity, etc.) would be all better once we were in a committed relationship.

God help me, I dreamed of marrying him. When I yanked my brain out of the romance novel that was my brain on crack .... ummm .... romance .... and looked his Nness straight on, well, then I was ENRAGED.

I phoned. I phoned again. I left contorted humiliating messages on his answering machine and then left others asking him to delete the first ones without listening. (Helllooo? Self? Nobody home...) I drove past his house to look yearningly at his front door and fantasize about his couch. I felt viscerally disturbed when I had to walk past his office building. I fixated on thoughts of his friends who got to be in his amazing orbit, because they were just his friends. I imagined I could be his best friend (in the universe, ever) and be perfectly fine watching him charm the next one. I emailed some more and called some more and hand-delivered letters. Then letters expounding on the earlier letters. I thought I would expire from my longing for him.

That was almost 4 years ago. Now...I'm sorry. Sad for him. Sad for me too, but in a way, grateful...because he was the one who opened the door to understanding what had driven me sooooo unconsciously my whole life (very Nish mother). Poor man. I do not miss him. I actually think fondly of him now and then, with a little sorrow, but not a trace of yearning. It's just a sad thing. His narcissism mixed with my raving romanticism and codependency were such a destructive mix.

So destructive that at last, at long last, I got tired of suffering. Still have chapters of it to go through, I know. But now I'm more dealing with suffering over fighting my own weaknesses in my OWN REAL life....not an imagined life with someone who cannot love me.

Sorry to hijack but I hope it contributes.

Hang in there, Margo. You have all my sympathy.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."