Do you feel lucky to be alive? (your experiences)

[bigalspal]

Hi folks,
Here's the thread I said I start.
I guess I want to know your experiences with Nfamily/X's need & or want to destroy you.
For instance: My NMother would've had an abortion if she could of found a doctor (this was 1957 in southern Indiana) back alley or otherwise.
All the hell I've been through, sometimes it seems that would've been better if she did. Really, I'm not pity seeking, so I don't need that from you.
I'm just saying I live with that shame everyday, of knowing I really shouldn't be alive. I guess somedays I feel guilty for being here.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my family. My husband & kids are the ONLY thing that's made that better. But waaaay deep down inside...I guess I don't feel legitimate.
That's another "light bulb" moment for me. I could never articulate what I'm trying to say, until right this minute. LEGITAMITE. That's the operative word.
My young parents were married, but I still I don't feel legitimate.
Then I had an NX who treated me the same way. He would just play around with my feelings, hit me & mess with my head.
And here's another thing. I just did not take care of myself. You know, all the excesses of life when you don't care what happens to your body.
Can anyone relate?
Maybe you mother or father didn't provide food or clothing for you. Maybe an X hit you or tried to hurt or kill you.
After all I've been through, I feel lucky to be alive.
How about you?
Love,
Bigalspal 

[JanetLG]

Bigalspal,

I don't know what to say to you, I really don't. Your mother sounds awful - from what you've put here, and on other threads, too.

I can relate to it in this way...my NMum used to say to me, from when I was really small, "Don't have children, they ruin your life, make you poor, make you ill, they're boring..." (By the way, I have an older brother and a younger 'Golden Child' sister).

Of course *I* was one of 'the children' that she was talking about, and I internalised the rejection, but also the attitude, so much, that by the time I was SEVEN, I was telling people proudly 'I'm not going to have children, they ruin your life'...blah, blah.

I only realised last year (when I was 44) that the uneasy feeling that I had towards babies and children was not *my* feeling at all, but hers, projected onto me. For the first time ever, I wished I'd had children. But it's too late now.

Also, I got anorexia when I was 12, as a result of the stress in our family. She didn't want to get me to a doctor, until I begged her, when I was 15. I had anorexia till I was 24. She wasn't concerned that I was seriously *ill* - only that 'people' would think badly of HER, if they thought she wasn't feeding me properly.

She was so uninterested in my illness, that I really thought (and I was probably right) that she didn't care if I lived or died.

She rejected me in a slightly different way than the way your Mum rejected you, but I think the result is very similar - you don't feel valued by others, so much so that you can't value yourself.

The fact that you bad a bad choice in your adult relationships is not surprising, really. Lots of us did that. I did it. Was engaged to a violent N for 6 years. I stayed with him for so long because I thought I might as well, as no-one ele would be interested (this is what both he and my NMum used to tell me.)

As to not caring for your body, apart from the anorexia (which is a huge rejection of self on its own), I still have problems feeling that I am 'worth' dressing up nicely, wearing jewellery, using nice perfumes, etc. I buy the stuff, but I can't bring myself to use it, a lot of the time.

Is this what you meant by 'can anyone relate'? I hope so.

We need to start valuing ourselves, but it's just so hard.

Janet

[Ami]

I have to respond to my two friends ,here. I have been thinking about your question,Pal.I think that there is a PC answer and a 'real" answer. The PC answer would be,"Yes, I am really happy to be alive."
However, my life has been mostly pain.
  The only redeeming feature of my life is that I found God. The other beautiful thing is when I can help others. This is something of beauty and value.I think that the more I heal the more I will have to offer.
  Life still seems grey to me. It is changing, slowly.I think that when I feel "real" and not numb and grey,life will be better.
  The Bible says that you must lose your life to gain it. I have been thinking about this. Also, the Bible says that the only way to overcome all other fears is to overcome the fear of death.
   I know that I need to go in this direction. Then, I think that I will be happy to be alive    Love  Ami

[bigalspal]

Hi Janet & Ami,
Janet, I'm so sorry your NMother made you feel so bad that you now realize it's too late to have children. How awful! They really do mess with our heads. And an eating disorder is her legacy to you.
Of course, she will never believe she could in anyway be responsible. Not her!
Boy, that rings true with me, too. I have so much baggage to carry around that my shoulder's are permantly damaged.
Ami, my good friend, you are so right about God. He's been the only voice that gives me 100% love. I know he loves me & wishes my mother did, too. One day there will be an end to this pain & we will suffer no more.
I always cry to God asking, where is my justice! Because I'm MAD too! Mad at the pain she's caused.
I ask God why does she live with no regret? Why does she even exist? She's not a good person.
She has hurt every member of our family. Some worse than others.
But, I know God will take care of it on his terms not mine.
Love,
Bigalspal

[lighter]

I don't have the same pain from N parents to share, Pal.

I do know that the Nhusband pain was terrible so I can't imagine what you must be going through (((Pal)))
\
So UNFAIR and you were just an innocent child who deserved a good mama to protect and love her.  I'm sorry that happend to you.

I'm glad you're reaching out for answers and understanding with the rest. 

I believe you can figure out how to control your thoughts, recover and fill your life with better things.

I'm certainly rooting for you.

[bigalspal]

Thank you so much Lighter.
That really does mean the world to me!
Thanks for letting me share. I think that's what has had me so stuck in this unhealthy place.
Before I came here, I wouldn't share it with very many people, so at my advanced age of 49, it's still there.
I regret not sharing it a long time ago. Maybe with a therapist. Money was always an issue when I was young. You get so caught up in raising kids that you feel like you can't spare the money.
But what I didn't realize was that money would've been well spent! I know my kids would've benefited greatly from their mom's improved mental health.
When your young you just don't see it that way.
So here I am.
Love,
Bigalspal

[lighter]

It seems so clear now, doesn't it, lol?  That getting therapy earlier in life would have helped you and helped your children too as a natural side affect. 

So hard to see when you're face is pressed up against the glass, esp when raising children and trying to survive.

I am glad you're here working on yourself now.

[Ami]

I am going to say something that I don't mean to start controversy about at all. It is just my impression and i would be interested in others' answers. I think that it is till in line with the thread.
   However,I think that the erosion of your psyche is worse with an N mother(parent) than with an N spouse. it seems that the people with N parents have that much more of a higher hill that they have climb  just to be  anywhere near normal.
  It seems that the erosion of your core, guts and soul is so deep with an N mother. I know that my H could never, ever hurt me the way that my M did. Anything that he did would never wound me in the way that she did.
   I think that that is why we ,with N mothers, find it hard to bond with people b/c we are so "different". We went to hell in our childhood.. We are kind of in a different dimension of reality than people who did not have this.I am coming out of it and expect to be "normal" some day,but these are my thoughts on it.
  I don't want to foster a heated discussion on which is worse---- just to hear people's thoughts.
  Maybe, I hijacked this thread. If I did, then I will just move it later.                      Love  Ami

[bigalspal]

Hi Ami,
Yes, I do think it's worse, & I'll explain my point of view.
If we are born with an Nparent, we have nothing to fall back on. No inner strength that a loving parent would instill in you to help you deal with an Npartner.
I think my husband put it best. He was very poor growing up. The other kids made fun of the way he dressed, had to eat lunch on the school lunch program, the house he lived in ect.
BUT, now this is important, when he got home he ALWAYS KNEW his parents thought he was SPECIAL! No matter how bad of a day he had, love & acceptance was waiting for him at home. Doesn't that just say it all?
I'd love to hear what others have to say on this subject. Good thought, Ami.
Love,
Bigalspal

[JanetLG]

Ami,

I think as you do - that when you've ONLY had the N parenting (obviously) you haven't had anything else. Just their twisted ways. So, if they choose to spend years telling you you're crap, and no-one else consistently says otherwise (although I know you had your grandmother), you've got no other point of reference to really *experience* a more supportive way of relating to the world. Sure, you can *see* other kids getting healthy parenting...but you don't get that yourself.


Pal,
It's so wearing, isn't it? All this trying to see what others had, and trying to be 'normal' when there's that awful nagging voice at the back of your mind, telling you you're not worthy enough to be on the planet, despite any of the great things you achieve. I'm glad you've got your husband's experiences, now, to compare with. I've got my husband's too, and it does help to discuss differences with someone who'll listen to you and understand.

Trying to deall with an N partner is hell anyway. Having had an N parent too, it's just impossible. My Nboyfriend and NMum used to gang up on me - did yours? They both wanted me in a powerless relationship, as they could both use me in different ways. As I put on weight (getting over my anorexia), my NMum actually let an honest comment escape her lips, once. She said " I liked you better when you were thin - you were easier to control then."

As to God....I know the 'usual' way of seeing God helps a lot of people here. My way of seeing God, considering the mother I had, is to see God as female. That way, I can *eventually* have a loving, comforting mother-figure who understands me, who I can talk to when I need to. I find it really helps, although I accpet that many people will have difficulty with my concept of God. That's OK 

Janet

[bigalspal]

Hi all,
Janet, I guess my mother was different. She hated everyone I've ever been with. I mean HATED them. Not, you know, I don't like this guy, but HATED them.
Well...wait a minute...she does love the man I'm married to now. He's a good money person. We are NOT rich. but he has given me more than anyone has before. Money is her God. She respects that. But, ganging up on me? Well she DID try that ONCE. We were at my stepdad's funeral, the same man she used & abused for 30 yrs. And she had the nerve to show up at his funeral & bring HER NEW HUSBAND! We were disgusted. Anyway, she cornered my husband & said I was looking good, but HOW good is she REALLY doing? You know the crap they ask. My husband look at her and said. "She's GREAT! " Better than YOU are!" She never has tried anything like that again!
So yeah, she has tried it. I didn't remember that until I was typing.
Janet, I can't believe your mom said that! (Oh, wait a min. we are dealing with an N!) Easier to control when you were thin! Boy, talk about letting the mask slip!
They really are fun, now aren't they!
Love,
Bigalspal

[finding peace]

Dear Pal,

My mother never went so far as to tell me she should have aborted me, but she did tell me she should never have had children.  Funny thing was, I was such a mess, I agreed with her.

I was seven years old when, one day, I calmly told my mother that I was tired of living and that I wanted to commit suicide.  Seven years old.  Her response:  “Well, if you do that you will spend the rest of eternity cursed, walking behind me apologizing for having put me through the pain and embarrassment of having a daughter commit suicide – is that what you want - to have to apologize to me for all eternity, not to mention cause me that much pain and embarrassment?”

Not once did she ask me why.

So yes, while I did not feel lucky to be alive then, I feel lucky to be alive today.  While I am not entirely where I want to be, it is a lot better than where I was.  I have a phenomenal husband and two daughters who floor me with their capacity for love and compassion.

I am so sorry your mother said that to you.  You mentioned feeling shame and feeling that you really shouldn’t be alive – it is your mother’s shame not yours.  She doesn’t deserve you – her fault and loss for not recognizing what a wonderful daughter she had!  Personally, I am glad you are here.

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I also wanted to chime in on the question on who has it worse – someone with an Nparent or someone who had good parents but entered a relationship with an N.  I don’t know, I am kinda on the fence on this one. 

In my early 20’s I too was in an abusive relationship.  It started out ok, but over several months the relationship got progressively worse.  I cut ties and walked away – yes the pain was bad, but I knew, after having lived with my father (who was beyond toxic) that if I stayed with this person, my life would be a repeat of my childhood and there was no way that I would ever do that again.  In that moment, I knew that the pain of walking away would be far less than staying - it made it much easier for me to get out.  I also knew that life would be better lived alone than to ever subjugate myself to another. 

I think people who have good parents are really blindsided when they get entangled with an N.  They have never really known that people like this exist.  The N’s are so careful in the beginning - they are everything you ever dreamed of.  Over time, as happens with Nparents, a very slow erosion of the identity occurs.  It is so subtle that you don’t know exactly what is happening until one day the abuse is so obvious you wake up and say wait a minute – by that time, your identity may have been so toyed with you don’t know who you are anymore.  Very similar to what is done to children of Ns – and oftentimes I think just as hard to get past – by the time the Npartner is finished, that identity that was so carefully built by loving parents may have been totally demolished (ie, there is nothing to fall back on).  Can they find their way back – I believe that just like people who had Nparents, they can, but they too must rebuild from the beginning.  I also believe that they (like us) will never be the same.  Association with an N leaves scars, some perhaps more deep than others, but the wounds always hurt and take a great deal of time to heal.

Probably not explaining it well, but I kind of think of it like kidney stones and childbirth – I have been through both.  People have often asked which pain is worse?  I always answer that both are excruciating.  Pain is relative to the moment – all you want is for the pain to go away.  In other words, to me, it doesn’t matter much which is worse – they both hurt – and when it is going on, all I want is for the pain to stop!

Just my .02

Always with love,
Peace

[Ami]

Dear Peace,
   You explained it beautifully. I am so glad that you have a good H and good children. You deserve ever bit of love and joy in life.  It is so nice to "hear" your voice                         Love  Ami

[bigalspal]

Hey Peace,
Good point! I never thought of it that way. If you've never had to deal with an N, boy that sure can take you by surprise. You really don't see it coming. You don't know what to expect.
Looks like you've had an Nmother, too. Wanting to commit suicide at 7 years old! 7! And the response your mother gave you. Shameful! But..it looks like you went the other way. You told yourself you were never going to be treated like that again. I really do admire that.
I think a lot of the reason I put up with one of my x's was money. I never earned as much as he did. He controlled all the money. I had no family to go to, so I stuck around much longer than I wanted to. I've learned who ever controls the money, controls the house.
My now husband & I work together. He really does not have money issues. I pretty much pay all the bills, but he does have access to our bank accounts. So it keeps us both honest.
I have a lot of trouble buying myself things, so sometimes he'll go and buy it for me. Good guy!  
Thanks Peace.
Love,
Bigalspal  

[Hopalong]

I just want to say to everyone who's posted here
that you are beautiful, miraculous, and there is wonder
in hearing your brave, bright, beautiful voices with so
much hard-won wisdom.

As hard as your lives have been, as many cruel and
mindless voices as once filled your ears...you are
making a different sound. A new sound.

Please understand there is music in you. Each.

I can hear it.

love
Hops