Do you feel lucky to be alive? (your experiences)

[lighter]

Dear Lighter,
   After I got out of graduate school, I applied for a job with a psychologist. I walked in and he said,"I have been waiting for an Assistant and you are it." He had a natural medicine practice-- accupuncture, homeopathy, energetic medicine.. So, I never practiced therapy.
  I am turned off therapy for so, many many reasons that I will write about it on a new thread,if you are interested  . Hope that you are doing better, Friend    .                       Love  Ami

I can only guess how your N mother, who is still a Therapist?, whipped you around with psycho babble . 

Very scary.

It must not have helped that she's been running to her own therapist, for the last 30 years, finding support and validation every time you rattled her cage. 

To top it all off you thought cloning yourself in her image, becoming a T, would make her love you and then that didn't happen. 

I'm glad you found the homepathic world fulfilling..... you get a chance to use some of your education?

How's that group you joined going?  So glad you can at least seek some kind of RLS.     

A thread about the group would be nice.  Are there more reasons why you don't appreciate therapists?

[bigalspal]

Janet,
That's another good question. I think she was just MEAN. She didn't seem to be competing with anyone for affection. She seemed to hate all of us. But, you might be right, as I sit & think about it, she hated me more, so I bet she felt the need to separate me & my stepdad.
I do have a nice memory about my poor stepdad.
I guess I was about 7 & I wanted popcorn money (school had popcorn for sale on Friday) & I knew better than to ask her, so I'm ashamed to say I stole it out of her purse.
She of course found out I took it & demanded my stepfather whip me HARD with a hairbrush. I mean he put marks on me.
After mother went to bed, he snuck in my room & put salve on my wounds. He was just crying his eyes out & telling me he was sorry. I knew he loved me & felt sorry for me, but he just was not strong enough to stand up to her.
 He became very obese as the years went by & started to drink. My mother never missed the opportunity to put him down. That made it so much worse. He just turned into a slobbering drunk & died a few yrs later. Of course my mother had no sympathy for him, & to this day talks about how awful he was. I think an N cannot realize it's "cause & effect". You keep being so mean & unloving to a person & they can become what you say they are. Even if you don't start out that way, which he didn't.
Love,
Bigalspal

[JanetLG]

Pal,

I'm so sorry. That's a sad memory, while a happy one at the same time, if you see what I mean.

My Dad became an alcoholic, I'm sure now, beacuse of living with HER for 37 years. He had a nervous breakdown when I was 5 (due to work stress) and I remeber her telling me (at 5!) that he did it 'on purpose',  'as if I haven't got enough on my plate with 3 kids!', etc)

What they do to their partners, it's horrible. My Dad was always weak, I know, but like your stepdad, he has a really good side. I'm glad I've got some of his traits - a sharp sense of humour, and a voracious need for books.

Much rather be like HIM than like HER, as my sister has done.

I've just thought of something - I stole some money from my Mum once. I'd forgotten that. I did it to buy my sister a Christmas present, because we didn't get hardly any pocket money, but my sister had let it be known what she wanted, and I didn't have enough. WOW, did I pay for that one! 'Not speaking' for weeks from my NMum, and the subject brought up for YEARS in company, as if I was some arch-criminal!

The fact that she used to steal from the hospital where she worked doesn't count as stealing, I suppose??? No, not to an N.

Janet

[bigalspal]

Janet,
That's sooo funny! Yeah, when THEY steal, it's DIFFERENT.
I know what you mean. My mother ripped off her own grandkids.
It's different. OMG. Who in the world do they think they are fooling??
Love,
Bigalspal

[JanetLG]

Pal,

Here's an EVEN BIGGER one that she did...

After I went NC with her, she blamed me for 'outing' her at family therapy sessions over her affairs that she'd been having for years. She and my Dad argued about it, and my Mum told him to get a divorce (note: not 'she got a divorce'). She wanted to be able to tell people that it wasn't HER fault - he'd been the one to apply for it. That made HER in the right.

Anyway, when it came to the actual divorce getting sorted, she refused to give him the money for half the house (even though HE'D paid for all the mortgage payments, for years), because  she said 'I WANT IT'. Simple.

So my Dad had to use his retirement income to start from scratch and buy a tiny flat, while she stayed in a large house that even 10 years ago was worth £250,000.

And that's not stealing?

And THEN she said *I* had been written out of her will, because *I'D* been unfair to HER.

And she convinced my Dad to leave everything in his ill to her, because 'she deserved it'. Even after the divorce.

The gall of these N's!

Anyway, back to the theme of this thread: I *do* feel lucky to be alive, mainly because however badly I think of myself sometimes, I'll never be as awful as HER. And that's worth celebrating.

Janet

[Ami]

Dear Pal,
  I am just crying feeling how you must have felt when you were hit for wanting a simple thing-- like popcorn. Then , how much a little touch from your step father meant to you. It is so, so ,so sad. It makes me think of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man had all the good things in life. Lazarus was the beggar and the dogs licked his sores. When Lazarus got to heaven he was comforted. I think of myself as the beggar and can only imagine the comfort that I will have.
   My F used to do little things like that for me. I used to just love any tenderness and kindness. I still do. I am so hungry for a gentle touch. It feels so wonderful to have any comfort b/c we have had so little.I was telling my Aunt today how I used to see the love and patience that she had with her kids. The oldest would have been called 'hyper" today,but she just gave him love and care. Today, he is a  dentist. He loves her and takes good care of her. What you sow ,you reap.
  She said ,"Of course, I gave them love. I would not know what else to do".it was so obvious to her-- like breathing. That struck me as so "strange" b/c it was so normal. When I talk to her, I feel like I enter a normal zone. I am used to a crazy zone with my mother . I am so used to it that I am shocked when someone is "normal"
   Anyway, my father would come  and turn my pillow over to the cool side when I had a fever. I thought  that this was so wonderful. My mother would put me in my room.,close the door and leave me there when I was sick.
  I remember that once my F bought me some toys-- Mr Potato Head. I felt like a queen b/c I got something that any parent would give a sick kid.
   We really did have a different reality. We lived in a different dimension. I saw that ,today, by talking to my Aunt. I have been pretending to be normal. I have been pretending that I am not an abused child. Well, I am . I need to own the true me and build up the core from the bottom up.I don't want to pretend to be "Miss Perfect" anymore------ Miss Perfect who had a loving mother, A father who protected her and a loving Husband.                                     Love  Ami
 

[Certain Hope]

Hi CB,

When I first tried to read Sacred Romance a couple years ago, I wasn't ready... felt like I couldn't deal with being caught
off-guard and set off-balance just then, and this stuff was SO entirely opposite all of the religion I'd been taught forever.
Now it's like... bring it on  Can't put new wine into old wineskins, or they'll burst, yanno? Well, my joints and muscles might be stiffening with age, but the spirit is brand new!
(I like Philip Yancey's style, too, by the way. What's So Amazing About Grace made quite an impact.)

A "life of damage-control" ... yes.
I can see that in my mother, with all her obsessive compulsive tendancies and perfectionism.
Trying to deny or cover up even her smallest errors... white-out on grocery lists which no other human eye would ever see.
 Unable to confess to the slightest flaw... even to herself.

"for a damaged person like my mom, each 'no' felt like a blow to the gut"...

Yes. Exactly.
I couldn't even indicate a dislike for an item of clothing she'd pull off the rack and hold up to me...
it was either - "Oh, mother, I love it!" or - prepare to disappear into oblivion.
 In that mode, I can see that the only way she could survive the anguish of her "extension" separating from her
was to treat me as though I were invisible... which is basically how I felt.
The option of lashing out, verbally or physically, was not available to her because that style would never mesh with her idealized image...
or... she made the choice to reject those options. I don't know which, but I think the former.

"N's refuse to set down their defensive weapons..." Yes. And their offensive ones.
 Maybe all that envy and pride and frigid anger are defensive weapons... but they surely feel offensive.

What I don't get is - if they hate themselves and have no sympathy for themselves... well, they sure have a strange way of showing it.
My mother always makes sure that she has the best of everything... trying to fill that bottomless pit of shame, perhaps... this is where I get confused.
So I'm having a really difficult time imagining that my mother doesn't think she's good enough... but I'll think on that one.
From all appearances, she's quite convinced that she is perfection personified.

Separating who we are from who our significant others (spouse, children, family, friends) want
is definitely the key. It's always back to that again - trying to be all things to all people - yes, depressing indeed.
I'm with you in that struggle!  I am committed to focusing on who God wants me to be and letting the chips fall where they may.
That is a daily battle... and only by His grace.

I appreciate your free-write, CB... very much.
It is so easy for me to try to sift through all of this, all at once... far too much... and then comes the quick-sand effect.
But this is refreshing and challenging both... I will really ponder and pray on what you've said about
these folks not thinking much of themselves.
I knew that about npd-ex... and yet - whew, the choices he made. Wicked.
But I honestly can't think of a time when my mother has ever revealed a vulnerability.
That would be beneath her dignity.
Choices. Yes, I'd say that's what it is all about.

Love,
Hope

P.S. Just finishing "The Remains of the Day" and then on to the Romance

[Certain Hope]

Pal,

I'm just catching up with replies here and wanted to apologize... cuz now I feel like I'm interrupting your thread by zagging off onto other topics.  I'm sorry... not sure how to procede sometimes when other discussions arise mid-thread. I'll mosey along now... quietly... leaving behind hugs and a p.s.

P.S. >>> Janet, I DO understand what you mean about the rejection of food... have dealt with that with regard to both parents because of their meal-time antics as a child, but I can sure see how an infant would sense rejection from mama and react by becoming intolerant to milk.
You are NOT difficult!! 

[JanetLG]

Hope,

Would you say that again, please, I didn't quite believe it the first time? 

Janet

[Ami]

Dear Janet,
   You must have internalized the "You are difficult" projection from your mother. I will say ,also, that "You are not difficult". You are wise, kind,giving ,loving, deep ,caring, independent thinking and fun.
  Your Mother was '"difficult" . Put back the difficult quality where it belongs --on her  .                                                                 Love  Ami
 

[finding peace]

(((((Thanks to everyone who wrote such kind posts – it eases something deep inside to read such kind words)))))

Pal – I had an odd feeling when you said that you admire that I could walk away.  At the time, I didn’t think of it in those terms, it was just kind of knowing that I had climbed out of one frying pan already and didn’t want to fall into another.  Never thought it was admirable.  I don’t think anyone in my FOO ever told me they admired me for something – ever.  It sits odd (in a good way) to hear that as it is so foreign – you know?  What your mother did to you for taking the popcorn money – she should suffer the same punishment.  At my low points, I sometimes think that if it were a just universe my FOO would be reincarnated to live my childhood.  Then I get back on track and realize that I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

Also, no shame in staying in a relationship; we all have to do what we need to do to survive the moment – it doesn’t mean it has to always be that way and you are living proof – you got out.  The good news is that you are in a wonderful relationship now – I am so happy for you!

OC and Hope – yes, IME actions definitely speak louder than words – I always watch body language and the nuance of how something is said when I listen to someone.  Oddly enough, this has helped me in a lot of ways in my business and in personal interactions. 

Janet – I am beginning to think we are long-lost sisters – our childhoods and mothers are eerily similar!!  (I also hate the “difficult” word – the other phrase I loathe “you are soooo sensitive.” )

Ami – you said something about being hungry for kindness.  I am this way also!  I am so starved for kindness that when someone is kind to me, even something as simple as opening a door for me, I appreciate it so much and always feel that I don’t adequately express how much it means to me. (I also have learned that I have to be careful sometimes when someone is kind, I will go overboard in giving back and have been taken advantage of for this - all because kindness is so foreign and I am starved for it).

After I posted about the pain of childbirth and kidney stones – I got to thinking – I think if someone in the future asks me which is more painful – I am going to answer neither – living with an N takes first place on pain (of course I’ll probably get some blank looks on that one!).

Peace

[Ami]

YES- Peace. You have it right about the most painful thing.----- an N .
  I wanted to add the phrases that I hated the most"Who do you think you are?"  "You made your bed ,you lie in it., and "You're not sick till you're hanging over the toilet bowl'                                                                                    Love  Ami                     

[bigalspal]

Hi Peace & Ch & everyone else,
CH- You don't worry about Hijacking my thread. 
Doesn't bother me at all.
Everyone, This a great thread. Thanks!
Love,
Bigalspal

[bigalspal]

Hi CB,
I know! My NMother would NOT save me, either.
I used to ask myself this: WHY ME???
OVER & OVER, for the last 49 yrs.
That's why this place saved my life.
I promise you, I had no idea that anyone else felt just like me.
Now I say; WHY US???
Love,
Bigalspal

[Certain Hope]

CB,

Yes, the animal with his leg caught in a trap is my NPD-ex, too. Vicious, frantic... eager to gnaw off my leg in a blind effort to extract himself. I felt so sorry for him. He hated that worst of all.
From one raft to another, let me just say, I'm SO thankful they floated on outta our lives!

Trying to view my mother in these same terms is where I draw a blank... almost like a total white-out, as in a snowstorm...
TV station off the air. No signal.  
I guess it's going to take awhile for me to integrate all of the feelings which I seem to be able to split so readily into black and white, where she and my dad are concerned. I just keep trying to think back, to remember... not just the events, but the feelings.
Much of this can be explained by a view of both my parents as weak and unable to face the difficulties of emotional responses, of genuine relationship, of... life. Maybe it is as simple as that.

Most of this came back to life because of our recent visit to their home. It was very quick - just 2 days - and fairly peaceful, really.
It wasn't until we were back in our own home here that it dawned on me... we have nothing to say to each other, really. I can't recall a single thing we discussed.
My mother was not "on" ...  not on stage, performing, playing a role. That was unusual. It's all kinda a blur, but it was... sad.
Did she actually seem quite human?    
I am forming a hunch here, CB.. and it's more than a bit disconcerting, but here it is - If anyone is living in the past in this whole scenario, maybe it's me.  I think it freaked me out to see her this way... just ordinary, elderly, and not very strong. Maybe it's because I'm sober.
Maybe it's because I'm N-free. Maybe it's because I don't need anyone to blame now.
It scared me to see her note taped inside her medicine chest - "dementia - loss of intelligence..."
It frightens me for my Dad to write that he wants to talk with me privately about her.
I think that behind all of this is my fear of losing my parents when they don't even know who I am... and it feels like they don't care to know.
Or maybe they just don't know how to ask?
So much bluster... and so little substance. Just like N-ex.

Thank you, CB... your perspective made all the difference.

Love,
Hope

P.S.   ((((((((Pal))))))) thanks for permission to rent a spot here... love to you and prayers for freedom from all this pain.

P.S. again -  Janet!  You are NOT not not not not "difficult" !!!