Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[lighter]

Hops and Hope.....

God is always a witness.

He sees everything and maybe your car careens down an embankment and takes out an inconspicuouse car with 3 men with a bad agenda...... and he has his reasons.

That I can make peace with.  Observation mode.  Been there done that.

Now.... Hops, you and I.... we are witnesses on this highway,  provided by the good Dr. G. 

I guess that sort of makes him the The State Road and Toll Authority herre, lol.

Anyhoo..... some people gawk their way on by, some people gesticulate and get upset there's been an accident or incident slowing them down on the way to wherever it is they're going.

Some people slow down and think.... I wonder if there's anything I can do to help here... yet drive on by, frightened by what that might mean.

Some people get out and see if anyone needs help..... they would help if they could.

Some people just stand silent witness and understand that something's happened that's larger than just slowing them down and getting in their way. 

You are one of the mindful ones who stands witness and realizes there's lessons in everything. 

And I believe, Hops..... that you would help.  I've witnessed it... you extend yourself when you could just go on. 

::picturing the people who grumble at 'incidents' on the side of the highway..... and think only of themselves and how they're affected.  Yikes.

::picturing the people who use God as a constant form of succor (which I sometimes do, too)::  Is it grace?

Hope.... I've seen you help too.  You've got lessons to teach me..... still.




Oy.... what great hunting ground this is for sociopaths and N's

[cats paw]

Lighter,

  I saw a program about Typhoid Mary a few months ago.

  I have lost track of where I have been with my Holiday greetings to people, so if I'm repeating them to you, well- I think you'll 
  accept them again, but this time with a twist.

  Mwerry, Mwerry Chwristmas to you, Lighter, and I'll be thinking of you Chwristmas day -
  when I dwain the gwease while I cook the goose. 
 

cats paw

[lighter]

Hi Lupita:

You're post doesn't bother me but it's interesting to hear your perpsective.

I wasn't always blamed and my sister wasn't spoiled rotten.... I had an idyllic childhood till I was 7... then bright lights big city. ::BOOM!::

Changes for the worst, when parents are out of control, they're children are out of control.

 It's not tragic but it's the way it was.

I really am working some things out here... though it may seem like I'm going on and on endlessly about something I'll never shut up about

That's the thing about agendas.... they are what they are.... despite how others view, judge, resent or otherwise protest the under their weight.  

All kinds of agendas on the highway/board/workplace/FOO.....

What kind of driver are you, Lupita?

Something to think about.

[lighter]

Lighter,

  Mwerry, Mwerry Chwristmas to you, Lighter, and I'll be thinking of you Chwristmas day -
  when I dwain the gwease while I cook the goose. 
 

cats paw

   I was just selecting and choosing fine free range geese when I asked a lady at the store if she liked to eat goose?

She had a terrific british accent and she engaged me in a lengthy enjoyable warm discussion about very old cook books she'll share with me when I get ready to do embrace the ritual cooking of the geese, lol.

Her name's Diane and I really I hope I have a new 3 d friend as I certainly need another.

Please tell me how you're cooking yours and let me know what you'd change about your recipe.

OH! OH!  She also said that goose fat is the very best for roasting potatoes to their most crisp wonderful best.

I think Yukons are what she uses...... I like little fingerling pups for the job....but don't just throw out that gwease!

I'm going to start a thread about how everyone's Christmas dinner went, the bad the good and the ugly.... as far as food went.

Please share the goose adventure there.

::going to start thread::

[lighter]

Shunned..... I can tolerate people's eruptions in traffic or when they're having a bad day at work of if they're an unhappy soul just transferring some agression long my path that day. 

I don't go to bed at night mumbling to myself over rude people bc I ask myself,

"I wonder what happend to them that has them acting like that today?"  THen I'm happy I'm having a better day and I go on about my business.

I can also choose not to drive in 5pm traffic on a Friday, go to a restaurant where the wait staff sucks or return to a rude sales associate, I can ask for their supervisor and get the job done without being bothered.



I don't always have the option/luxury to sidestep every gaslighting personality I encounter.... and I encounter more than my fair share, IMO. 

What do I do about that?

[gratitude28]

(((((((((((((((((((((CB)))))))))))))))

You are such a great example and I am so happy for you. You sound so healed... and whole.

Love, Beth

[tayana]

Hi Lollie,

I haven't read this whole thread, but could you post about your technique?  I'm really interested since I'm seeing my Nmom for the first time in 2.5 months next week.  I'm a little nervous about it, and any help would be great.

T

[finding peace]

Hey Lighter – in response to post #12 – are you trying to change Rome in a day?  Speaking for myself, you are working with a wounded army here.  Given my childhood, abnormal is normal to me – although I am starting to turn that around.  One thing I have learned, I won’t bye a bystander on the road anymore (just don’t know if I can prevent the accidents).  (edits in blue - whew - I ned to teke the time to prof reed - who has time?)

Following is a hijack – sorry

Amber, this spoke to me (loudly and as very wise), learned this with my parents, the reminder is very timely (btw – you are not by any means invisible and I am sorry if my lack of posting has made you feel this way.  I don’t have much time to post these days and sometimes I need to pull back a little.  Hearing people's stories reminds me of my own, and I really resonate with your story.  It can be hard for me. 

for the gaslighters, I remind myself that they are legends in their own minds... and that they live on a planet populated with only 1 person: themselves. I try to learn as much as possible about their planet, so that I can communicate in terms they understand, because sometimes I have to deal with them - at work, elsewhere. The more I know, the more I can constrain their ability to affect me - and (wacko that I am) I am sometimes able to divert them from creating havoc for other people...

and I always walk away from those encounters feeling extraordinarily lucky that my planet is much bigger, more diverse - and a heck of a lot less boring than theirs. When I remember my self enough, to be that present, that is. I am still blindsided sometimes.

Lupita, you sound different these days, like you have gained a tremendous amount of strength, I am so happy for you.

CB congratulations - you sound wonderful - you and Lupita have made my day. 

Lollie - hi again.  I would love to hear more about this as well!

Much love,
Peace

[Lupita]

FP, Thank you so much for your kind words.

Dear Lighter, what kind of a driver am I. I will speak metaphorically. As a doctor with out a license, you can go to jail if you touch a patient. So, I am a driver scared to stop to help. Because I do not know if my help could be help or damage. Because I am afraid.
But I am a deffensive driver, trying to avoid accidents, and I promise you with all my heart that if there is something I believe I can do to help, I will do it. The problem is that I do not know what is the difference.

Anyway, there are lows for indifference. You can go to jail for watching a crime and not helping. There are also lows agaisnt depraved indifference. Like when you see a rape and do nothing, or a fight and do nothing. Etc. Many examples.

Dont forget that I still get paralized when in fear.

Here I do not enter the conflicts not for lack of desire but for fear of doing more damage than benefit.

That is why I do not post in threads that are triggering to me or irritating. I pick only the unavoidable battles. I have one tomorrow with parents of a student who is failing my class.

I still think that you have problems with your sister and you reflect it in your way of explessing. Or so I think. Of course I might be wrong. Who knows. Or if it is not a sister, it is a similar situation.

That is why Dr. G said that the battle is almost impossible to abandone.

Anyway, you have been so helpful and so nice to me that I love you with all my heart.

[lighter]

Big day today.... but I got a lot out of some of these responses...... be back to re read in a bit.  : )

[Hopalong]

(((((((CB))))))

Congratulations on your freedom and your joy.
I'm visualizing you as Fred(dette) Astaire in Singing in the Rain...but you have a handsome Mexican partner who smiles at you like you're the sun.

xxoo,
Hops

[Leah]

(((((((( CB )))))))))

So very happy for you, truly, I am.

Love to you,

Leah

[lighter]

ah.....

for the gaslighters, I remind myself that they are legends in their own minds... and that they live on a planet populated with only 1 person: themselves. I try to learn as much as possible about their planet, so that I can communicate in terms they understand, because sometimes I have to deal with them - at work, elsewhere. The more I know, the more I can constrain their ability to affect me - and (wacko that I am) I am sometimes able to divert them from creating havoc for other people...

and I always walk away from those encounters feeling extraordinarily lucky that my planet is much bigger, more diverse - and a heck of a lot less boring than theirs. When I remember my self enough, to be that present, that is. I am still blindsided sometimes.

Shunned...... What about when you have to deal with them on an ongoing basis..... someplace in your life that you care about or otherwise can't excape?

How do you deal with watching other's, who impact your life also, get pulled into the one man orbit and manipulated..... it affects you.  You can't just ignore it.... or can you?

I suppose it entails some quick calculations, on your part.

Will stepping in, whatever form that might take, cause EVERYONE (including you and the new player) more discomfort?

Is causing the gaslighter (small or large) some discomfort (by shining a bit of light on their bahavior) worth the disruption of his LARGE PUNISHING REACTION, which is his true genius?  

If we don't keep our mouths shut..... we'll be dealing with a flurry of accusations and wild negative behaviors that aren't in balance with the actions that CAUSED them.

So..... asking one little rational question in a sane appropriate voice can lead to a tulmultuouse week of craziness that snowballs out of control and.....

let's face it.... the one little question really was ONE of the causes, wasn't it?  


I still protest my ability to express rational thoughts and words, bc the gaslighters exact such a high cost if I don't towe the line and allow them to operate without challenge or question.... even though it's work to towe the line as well.

If I have to work really hard at something.... and I consider towing the line AND questioning great hard work..... what kind of worker am I?

This is sort'a rhetorical.... and not a copletely formed train of thought...... still a work in progress.  ::nodding::
  

[lighter]

lollie and lupita.... I've still yet to get back to your posts, re read them and respond.  Kind of grab a minute here and there when I have a chance: )

[Hopalong]

Lighter,

I'm twanging to this and don't know the answer (but am familiar with that price):

Is causing the gaslighter (small or large) some discomfort (by shining a bit of light on their bahavior) worth the disruption of his LARGE PUNISHING REACTION, which is his true genius?

Wish I did know.

love,
Hops