Author Topic: Damned if you do, damned if you don't  (Read 8277 times)

lighter

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Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« on: December 17, 2007, 02:37:51 PM »
It struck me..... recently there have been voices that spoke out, bravely.... not bc they wanted to.... but bc they felt an obligation to speak the truth, as they saw it.... to strive for clarity and resolution. 

Some voices speak out bc someone's sitting on their chest and they're moved to..... in order to release the pressure.  Not speaking about the board, lest you think I am here.

I think, on the whole.... that's a double edged sword...... the speaking out.

If you speak up, you're accused of having an agenda that doesn't include clarity and resolution.  You might take incoming fire you can't handle or actually get injured in any miriad of ways.

Like that's some crime..... to have an agenda that isn't about.... oh well... I can't think of anyone like that so... I'll speak about my 3-d life and a book I tried to read not long ago.

If you don't speak up, you feel like you've left those brave enough to strive for clarity and resolution, hanging.

There are people in the world who have no regard whatsovever for the truth... and they thrive everywhere.

6 out of 20 or something like that?  Makes sense when I look around and see so much conflict and confusion around me.

In the courts, in the workplace, on public forums, in family and at church.

I've learned a couple things since coming to this board.

One was about bringing unrelenting pressure to bear, to maximum ability.... on those who will do nothing but lie, cheat, scapegoat, gaslight and manipulate the emotions and social structure around them to get their way, which never makes any sense, but they're committed, nonetheless.

Thank you Mud for driving that point home...... it's starting to sink in but the desire to shy away is so strong sometimes.... you know it's a struggle.

The other thing I've learned is that NC is preferred over contact.... if you can swing it.

There's no serenity when manipulators are about.

The one thing you can count on.... is strife and confusion.

It follows them like a cloud..... and they're not necessarily still standing there when the cloud hits.... so it doesn't always appear that the cloud's anything to do with them. :shock:  And they're finger pointing, plausible possible causes that certainly seem to make sense about what other possible causes might be involved. 

I'm at an impasse as to what to do with the ongoing contact.... where NC isn't going to be possible.

::shaking head::

My own private personal little battle being waged, dont'cha know?

I'm trying to remember back to the book... "THE SOCIOPATH NEXT DOOR"  was that the correct title?

The Doctor who was dismissed, on a psych ward? for sabotaging, or trying to sabotage rather, another doctor patient relationship..... bc she was enviouse of the other doc?   

It ended up that she stuck her foot in it, bc the patient trusted his doc enough that he told on that bad bad sociopathic doctor (who somehow ended up in a position of trust and authority over vulnerable people.) :shock:

She was investigated and found to be lying about her background and ya know what?

Her employers didn't want to make a fuss.

They didn't want to draw attention.

They didn't want to hold her accountable and they sure didn't want her to face any consequences beyond losing her job.  (read that as distancing themselves quietly bc.... bc why?)  ::sigh:: 

Because she's a nightmare walking and nobody wants to deal with a nightmare walking.... esp one that could cost you lawsuits and bad publicity.  ::shudder::

So, she's out there in the world, bright, educated, predatory and needful..... with ambition and determination to do whatever it takes to TAKE what she's feels she's entitled to from anyone she feels like taking it from. 

No doubt the next problem she creates will be swept under the carpet, geivances ignored and innocent people pretty much injured but what the hell?

At least she's out of our hair and that's all that matters.


It's like playing hot potato.... but different.   

I'm just rambling now.... for no apprarent destination.

This all comes to mind bc when I tried to deal with domestic violence, with a felony keystroke device put on my pc, with fraud and forged documents.....

what kind of response do you think it received?

::sweep sweep sweep::  Don't mean nothin.....

So much easier to ignore and blame the victim, than draw fire from the loud annoying flamboyant gaslighter who's bent on winning the game, no matter the cost.... and he's got plenty ability to pay while I'm struggling to raise children and stay focused on what's important.... serenity for my children. 

My serenity wasn't a factor, a consideration.... it was a given that it wasn't.  Even at $500.00 an hour and let me tell ya.... you can't buy better hand tying helpers than that, not in this State anyway.

Did I fall down and go to pieces, sleep with someone who might make a difference and at least act like they cared if I pimped myself, lol?

Did I get loud and make gross accusations as to the integrity and actions of my $500.00 an hour poopey head attorney? 

Did I fall on my knees and refuse to leave the building until someone would hear me..... let me be understood oh please oh please....

It's all a game and it's a sick, unhealthy bad bad bad game.

No matter where you're playing it..... or what you're playin for.


Being a grownup sucks :x

But ya know what?  The most fulfilling satisfying thing about is......

that I know.....


without a doubt.....

that.....



my two little bobbins.....



are watching and learning what I model for them.




And if I can make peace with my God and my obligation as sane rational parent.... then it doesn't really matter who gets away with what.

That's MY reason for letting it go. 

Of course, if I manage to raise well adjusted children to become rational thinking adults who know the difference between right and wrong.....

what the hell are they gonna do when faced with the 6 out of 20?

You don't just find serenity.... you find a reason to lay down the fight and whew!  It really sucked anyway, eh?  You find a reason..... to give away what you're rightfully entitled to and walk away.

Oh that's right..... IF you can walk away.

And I'm back to that niggling circular thinkin. 



mudpuppy

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 02:56:43 PM »
edited
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 02:58:53 PM by mudpuppy »

reallyME

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 03:20:08 PM »
Lighter,

your eloquent post described a few people in my life to a TEE.  Wounding people, getting away with it, :sweep sweep sweep.  YUP! Thank you for putting it in PRINT!

~Laura

Hopalong

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 04:20:39 PM »
Quote
There's no serenity when manipulators are about.

Oy, Lighter. I know.

I feel as though that's The Big Lesson. When I used to go to Vespers once a week and sit quietly amid Serious Meditators, I thought I was learning a tiny piece of it.

Manipulators will ALWAYS be about.

So if we don't want to resign ourselves to lives without serenity, what choice do we have but to learn internal boundaries to protect ourselves?

I often think of peace and justice activists, and how they can tolerate protesting, civilly, over and over, facing implacable monoliths constructed to deny the evil that some within them perpetrate. I am awed. I have always been chicken about putting myself on the line like that. Yet...I know activists who seem to enjoy their lives of protest. Some are chronically angry and upset, others are nearly beatific.

Maybe the reality is somewhere in between and is just going to ebb and flow. Maybe this is rehearsal for setting boundaries (or tilting at windmills, or abandoning hopeless causes) in our 3-D lives.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Leah

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 04:52:27 PM »
My work of human rights campaigner is quiet and dignified, in a similar vein to that of my dear friend, Dreamsinger.

Writing letters, tirelessing, and fundraising, earnestly.

I am but a small gentle link in a big effective chain as we work and pull together as a communicative team.

This week a national organisation celebrates publically, at the news of a new important turnaround for the benefit of battered women and children.

Much quiet gentle rejoicing in the hearts of many quiet gentle souls who have courageously stood up with dignity and integrity to bring about change and freedom in the lives of those who are in real genuine suffering, worldwide too.

Making a difference never did require shouting from the rooftops -- thankfully, as I do not have a loud voice.

Love to ((( all )))

Leah


PS>   lovely to be able to share this news.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 05:26:02 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

lighter

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 05:12:20 PM »
Hmmmm. Leah.

You have me thinking here.

I'm used to9 popping women on their knoggins......

pushing them past their fear and physical thresholds......

in order to teach them how to help themselves.

They think they're helpless.....

             they're not.

They fear they're vulnerable. 

               They are.

My rejoicing doesn't become quiet and still until the banging and shouting's over. 

Then it's time for a beer back at the monestary,lol.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 06:34:05 PM by lighter »

lighter

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 05:15:36 PM »
keep them from making me crazy, not let them into my "universe", if possible. It's not always possible, so I've tried to find ways of dealing with them that minimizes their impact on me... so that I'm "immune".


Shunned......  What ways work for you?  What tools help you deal with them.... minimize them..... their impact on your life?

Leah

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2007, 05:17:16 PM »
Dear Lighter,

As I mentioned before, you are you, and that is just fine, and we are us, and that is just fine too.

We are all unique individuals, with our own hearts and souls, we different, not cloned.

That's a big difference.

I have never drunk beer, and I have never been to a monastery.

However, I do have my very own independent voice, which I treasure.

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Lupita

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 06:24:36 PM »
One was about bringing unrelenting pressure to bear, to maximum ability.... on those who will do nothing but lie, cheat, scapegoat, gaslight and manipulate the emotions and social structure around them to get their way, which never makes any sense, but they're committed, nonetheless.

Just a comment. When some one does all those things mentioned above, that person might have a personality disorder.

According to my book, (the one recommended by Observer, that I am still studying, 700 pages) what good does it do to me to try to talk to a wall?

That would be equal to again expect my M to love me the way I would have wanted. That is not going to happen.

I dont know if I am making any sense. Just thinking.

lighter

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2007, 06:33:00 PM »
Quote
There's no serenity when manipulators are about.


Maybe the reality is somewhere in between and is just going to ebb and flow. Maybe this is rehearsal for setting boundaries (or tilting at windmills, or abandoning hopeless causes) in our 3-D lives.

love
Hops



Once you've abandoned all hopeless cause..... what's left to abandon?

The rest looks pretty necessary to me: /

lighter

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2007, 06:36:31 PM »

Ya know.... something was buggin me about this post, Leah..... what in the world were you trying to say to this human being, on her thread about herself..... that seemed like it needed to be said on her thread about herself?

I'm asking for clarification, thanks.



My work of human rights campaigner is quiet and dignified, in a similar vein to that of my dear friend, Dreamsinger.

Writing letters, tirelessing, and fundraising, earnestly.

I am but a small gentle link in a big effective chain as we work and pull together as a communicative team.

This week a national organisation celebrates publically, at the news of a new important turnaround for the benefit of battered women and children.

Much quiet gentle rejoicing in the hearts of many quiet gentle souls who have courageously stood up with dignity and integrity to bring about change and freedom in the lives of those who are in real genuine suffering, worldwide too.

Making a difference never did require shouting from the rooftops -- thankfully, as I do not have a loud voice.

Love to ((( all )))

Leah


PS>   lovely to be able to share this news.


lighter

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 10:14:13 PM »
It's all fun and games.....

till somebody loses an eye...

or a newbie...

or board reg, who offered something of value. 

Hey.... I'm prefacing this post with the lighthearted suggestion that anyone who's over my traipsing around bumping into people, things and doctors.... the conflict.... the neverending posting about things best left unsaid.... or just generally sick to death of me, as I almost again, myself.... just skip it and save us all the trouble.

I feel like I'm banging around the board..... looking for something that's just not there.

If a Doctor who specializes in giving victims their voices back.... can't keep the sociopaths (however small and non giant in stature they may be)  from crunching their happy way through the board....

ACK... I'm moved to song....


"If you ever awake
In the mirror of a bad dream

And for a fraction of a second,
You can't remember where you are
Just open your window
And follow your memories
Upstream
To the meadow in the mountain
Where we counted every falling star

I believe the light that shines on you
Will shine on you forever
(forever)
And though I can't guaruntee there's nothing scary
Hidin' under your bed
I'm gonna
Stand guard
Like the postcard
Of the golden retriever
And never leave
'Til I leave you
With a sweet dream in your head

[CHORUS]
I'm gonna watch you shine
Gonna watch you grow
Gonna paint a sign
So you always know
As long as one and one is two
Ooh ooh
There could never be a father
Love his daughter more than I love you

Trust your intuition
It's just like going fishin'
You cast your line and
Hope you get a bite

But you don't need to waste your time
Worryin' about the marketplace
Trying to help the human race
Struggling to survive
It's as harsh as night"





Ahhh...::wiping mouth::.. that was ugly.

Lesson to self:

In an unfair world where mother's emotionally consume their children....  physically break them and worse.....

where people cruise the highway looking for opportunity to present itself....


you're likely to meet the same or similar force at the grocery store, at your child's school, through a dating service, on the internet,  smiling at you with flowers at the door..... waiting to take you or your teen aged child on a first date.

The only barrier can be.....

common sense and appropriate boundaries. Maybe proactive filling up the tank..... being mindful about how we approach each day.

Trusting your instincts and believing people when they show you who they are.

Shying away and hoping they go after someone with weaker boundaries so they stop nosing around you?

::gulp::

Survival of the fittest. ::nodding fast::

If anyone wants to learn from other people's insights or lessons, pick up a self help book... read up on your hisotry, perhaps.

Pointing out lessons learned in the present.... eh... not such a good idea.

Lessons are best learned in the abstract. ::n odding::

The concrete business of communicating valid information in an appropriate fashion, for the right reasons,  with the proper, if still elusive, words..... so that you aren't attacked and put on the defense, accused of BEING exactly what you're pointing out.....

is thankless head thunking stuff best left to......

history books.... ::nodding::  Awful stuff for the INFP's,  I'm afraid... but necessary I suppose.

But Typhoid Mary wasn't left in the kitchen, in the history books, was she?

At the hospital.

Preparing food on the maternity ward where the vulnerable were being harmed, despite her intentions, which weren't evil.

Or were they?

Someone pointed and stepped up and challenged her wrong thinking....  though I'm sure she died quite certain she wasn't any more responsible for the harm she caused than the man in the moon.

I've babbled on about her quite a bit so..... here's her story.  I thought it was interesting.

Typhoid Mary
From Jennifer Rosenberg,
Your Guide to 20th Century History.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
Mary Mallon seemed a healthy woman when a health inspector knocked on her door in 1907, yet she was the cause of several typhoid outbreaks. Since Mary was the first "healthy carrier" of typhoid fever in the United States, she did not understand how someone not sick could spread disease -- so she tried to fight back.

After a trial and then a short run from health officials, Mary was recaptured and forced to live in relative seclusion upon North Brother Island off New York. Who was Mary Mallon and how did she spread typhoid fever?

An Investigation

For the summer of 1906, New York banker Charles Henry Warren wanted to take his family on vacation. They rented a summer home from George Thompson and his wife in Oyster Bay, Long Island. Also for the summer, the Warrens hired Marry Mallon to be their cook.

On August 27, one of the Warren's daughters became ill with typhoid fever.


their daughter and two maids became ill; followed by the gardener and another Warren daughter. In total, six of the eleven people in the house came down with typhoid.
Since the common way typhoid spread was through water or food sources, the owners of the home feared they would not be able to rent the property again without first discovering the source of the outbreak. The Thompsons first hired investigators to find the cause, but they were unsuccessful.

Then the Thompsons hired George Soper, a civil engineer with experience in typhoid fever outbreaks. It was Soper who believed the recently hired cook, Mary Mallon, was the cause. Mallon had left the Warren's approximately three weeks after the outbreak. Soper began to research her employment history for more clues.

Mary Mallon was born on September 23, 1869 in Cookstown, Ireland. According to what she told friends, Mallon emigrated to America around the age of 15. Like most Irish immigrant women, Mallon found a job as a domestic servant. Finding she had a talent for cooking, Mallon became a cook, which paid better wages than many other domestic service positions.

Soper was able to trace Mallon's employment history back to 1900. He found that typhoid outbreaks had followed Mallon from job to job. From 1900 to 1907, Soper found that Mallon had worked at seven jobs in which 22 people had become ill, including one young girl who died, with typhoid fever shortly after Mallon had come to work for them.1

Soper was satisfied that this was much more than a coincidence; yet, he needed stool and blood samples from Mallon to scientifically prove she was the carrier.

Capture and Isolation

In March 1907, Soper found Mallon working as a cook in the home of Walter Bowen and his family. To get samples from Mallon, he approached her at her place of work. Having a strange man come up to you, to accuse you (who seems completely healthy) of spreading disease and of killing people and then be asked for some of your blood and excrement, well, it does seem it would make just about anybody skeptical.


I had my first talk with Mary in the kitchen of this house. . . . I was as diplomatic as possible, but I had to say I suspected her of making people sick and that I wanted specimens of her urine, feces and blood. It did not take Mary long to react to this suggestion. She seized a carving fork and advanced in my direction. I passed rapidly down the long narrow hall, through the tall iron gate, . . . and so to the sidewalk. I felt rather lucky to escape.2 This violent reaction from Mallon did not stop Soper. Soper tracked Mallon to her home. He tried to approach her again, but this time, he brought an assistant (Dr. Bert Raymond Hoobler) for support. Again, Mallon became enraged, made clear they were unwelcome and shouted expletives at them as they made a hurried departure.

Realizing it was going to take more persuasiveness than he was able to offer, Soper handed his research and hypothesis over to Hermann Biggs at the New York City Health Department. Biggs agreed with Soper's hypothesis. Biggs sent Dr. S. Josephine Baker to talk to Mallon.

Mallon, now extremely suspicious of these health officials, refused to listen to Baker, Baker returned with the aid of five police officers and an ambulance. Mallon was prepared this time. Baker describes the scene:

Mary was on the lookout and peered out, a long kitchen fork in her hand like a rapier. As she lunged at me with the fork, I stepped back, recoiled on the policeman and so confused matters that, by the time we got through the door, Mary had disappeared. 'Disappear' is too matter-of-fact a word; she had completely vanished.3 Baker and the police searched the house. Eventually, footprints were spotted leading from the house to a chair placed next to a fence. Over the fence was a neighbor's property.

They spent five hours searching both properties, until, finally, they found "a tiny scrap of blue calico caught in the door of the areaway closet under the high outside stairway leading to the front door."4

Typhoid Mary (Page 2)
From Jennifer Rosenberg,
Your Guide to 20th Century History.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
(Continued from Page 1)
Baker describes the emergence of Mallon from the closet:


She came out fighting and swearing, both of which she could do with appalling efficiency and vigor. I made another effort to talk to her sensibly and asked her again to let me have the specimens, but it was of no use. By that time she was convinced that the law was wantonly persecuting her, when she had done nothing wrong. She knew she had never had typhoid fever; she was maniacal in her integrity. There was nothing I could do but take her with us. The policemen lifted her into the ambulance and I literally sat on her all the way to the hospital; it was like being in a cage with an angry lion.5 Mallon was taken to the Willard Parker Hospital in New York. There, samples were taken and examined; typhoid bacilli was found in her stool.Sponsored Links




The health department then transferred Mallon to an isolated cottage (part of the Riverside Hospital) on North Brother Island (in the East River near the Bronx).
Can the Government Do This?

Mary Mallon was taken by force and against her will and was held without a trial. She had not broken any laws. So how could the government lock her up in isolation indefinitely?

That's not easy to answer. The health officials were basing their power on sections 1169 and 1170 of the Greater New York Charter:


The board of health shall use all reasonable means for ascertaining the existence and cause of disease or peril to life or health, and for averting the same, throughout the city. [Section 1169]
Said board may remove or cause to be removed to [a] proper place to be by it designated, any person sick with any contagious, pestilential or infectious disease; shall have exclusive charge and control of the hospitals for the treatment of such cases. [Section 1170]6
This charter was written before anyone knew of "healthy carriers" -- people who seemed healthy but carried a contagious form of a disease that could infect others. Health officials believed healthy carriers to be more dangerous than those sick with the disease because there is no way to visually identify a healthy carrier in order to avoid them. But to many, locking up a healthy person seemed wrong.

Freedom

Mary Mallon believed she was being unfairly persecuted. Wasn't she healthy? She could not understand how she could have spread disease and caused a death when she, herself, seemed healthy.


I never had typhoid in my life, and have always been healthy. Why should I be banished like a leper and compelled to live in solitary confinement with only a dog for a companion?7 In 1909, after having been isolated for two years on North Brother Island, Mallon sued the health department.

During Mallon's confinement, health officials had taken and analyzed stool samples from Mallon approximately once a week. The samples came back intermittently positive with typhoid, but mostly positive (120 of 163 samples tested positive).8 For nearly a year preceding the trial, Mallon also sent samples of her stool to a private lab where all her samples tested negative for typhoid. Feeling healthy and with her own lab results, Mallon believed she was being unfairly held.


This contention that I am a perpetual menace in the spread of typhoid germs is not true. My own doctors say I have no typhoid germs. I am an innocent human being. I have committed no crime and I am treated like an outcast -- a criminal. It is unjust, outrageous, uncivilized. It seems incredible that in a Christian community a defenseless woman can be treated in this manner.9 Mallon did not understand a lot about typhoid fever and, unfortunately, no one tried to explain it to her. Not all people have a strong bout of typhoid fever; some people can have such a weak case that they only experience flu-like symptoms. Thus, Mallon could have had typhoid fever but never known it. Though commonly known at the time that typhoid could be spread by water or food products, people who are infected by the tyhpoid bacillus could also pass the disease from their infected stool onto food via unwashed hands. For this reason, infected persons who were cooks (like Mallon) or food handlers had the most likelihood of spreading the disease.

The judge ruled in favor of the health officials and Mallon, now popularly known as "Typhoid Mary," "was remanded to the custody of the Board of Health of the City of New York."10 Mallon went back to the isolated cottage on North Brother Island with little hope of being released.

In February of 1910, a new health commissioner decided that Mallon could go free as long as she agreed never to work as a cook again. Anxious to regain her freedom, Mallon accepted the conditions. On February 19, 1910, Mary Mallon agreed that she "is prepared to change her occupation (that of cook), and will give assurance by affidavit that she will upon her release takeTyphoid Mary (Page 3)
(Continued from Page 2)
Recapture

Some people believe that Mallon never had any intention of following the health officials' rules; thus they believe Mallon had a malicious intent with her cooking. But not working as a cook pushed Mallon into service in other domestic positions which did not pay as well. Feeling healthy, Mallon still did not really believe that she could spread typhoid. Though in the beginning Mallon tried to be a laundress as well as worked at other jobs, for a reason that has not been left in any documents, Mallon eventually went back to working as a cook.

In January of 1915 (nearly five years after Mallon's release), the Sloane Maternity Hospital in Manhattan suffered a typhoid fever outbreak. Twenty-five people became ill and two of them died.

Soon, evidence pointed to a recently-hired cook, Mrs.Brown.

Mrs. Brown was really Mary Mallon, using a pseudonym.
If the public had shown Mary Mallon some sympathy during her first period of confinement because she was an unwitting typhoid carrier, all of the sympathy disappeared after her recapture. This time, Typhoid Mary knew of her healthy carrier status - even it she didn't believe it; thus she willingly and knowingly caused pain and death to her victims. Using a pseudonym made even more people feel that Mallon knew she was guilty.

Mallon was again sent to North Brother Island to live in the same isolated cottage that she had inhabited during her last confinement. For twenty-three more years, Mary Mallon remained imprisoned on the island.

The exact life she led on the island is unclear, but it is known that she helped around the hospital, gaining the title "nurse" in 1922 and then "hospital helper" sometime later. In 1925, Mallon began to help in the hospital's lab.

In December 1932, Mary Mallon suffered a large stroke that left her paralyzed. She was then transferred from her cottage to a bed in the children's ward of the hospital on the island, where she stayed until her death six years later, on November 11, 1938.

Typhoid Mary Lives On

Since Mary Mallon's death, the name "Typhoid Mary" has grown into a term disassociated from the person. Anyone who has a contagious illness can be termed, sometimes jokingly, a "Typhoid Mary." If someone changes their jobs frequently, they are sometimes referred to as a "Typhoid Mary." (Mary Mallon changed jobs frequently. Some people believed it to be because she knew she was guilty, but most probably it was because domestic jobs during the time were not long lasting service jobs.)

But why does everyone know about Typhoid Mary? Though Mallon was the first carrier found, she was not the only healthy carrier of typhoid during that time. An estimated 3,000 to 4,500 new cases of typhoid fever were reported in New York City alone and it was estimated that about three percent of those who had typhoid fever become carriers, creating 90-135 new carriers a year.

Mallon was also not the most deadly. Forty-seven illnesses and three deaths were attributed to Mallon while Tony Labella (another healthy carrier) caused 122 people to become ill and five deaths. Labella was isolated for two weeks and then released.

Mallon was not the only healthy carrier who broke the health officials' rules after being told of their contagious status. Alphonse Cotils, a restaurant and bakery owner, was told not to prepare food for other people. When health officials found him back at work, they agreed to let him go free when he promised to conduct his business over the phone.

So why is Mary Mallon so infamously remembered as "Typhoid Mary"? Why was she the only healthy carrier isolated for life? These questions are hard to answer. Judith Leavitt, author of Typhoid Mary, believes that her personal identity contributed to the extreme treatment she received from health officials. Leavitt claims that there was prejudice against Mallon not only for being Irish and a woman, but also for being a domestic servant, not having a family, not being considered a "bread earner," having a temper, and not believing in her carrier status.12

During her life, Mary Mallon experienced extreme punishment for something in which she had no control and, for whatever reason, has gone down in history as the evasive and malicious "Typhoid Mary."

Notes

1. Judith Walzer Leavitt, Typhoid Mary: Captive to the Public's Health (Boston: Beacon Press, 1996) 16-17.
2. George Soper as quoted in Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 43.
3. Dr. S. Josephine Baker as quoted in Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 46.
4. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 46.
5. Dr. S. Josephine Baker as quoted in Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 46.
6. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 71.
7. Mary Mallon as quoted in Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 180.
8. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 32.
9. Mary Mallon as quoted in Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 180.
10. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 34.
11. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 188.
12. Leavitt, Typhoid Mary 96-125.


Bibliography

Leavitt, Judith Walzer. Typhoid Mary: Captive to the Public's Health. Boston: Beacon Press, 1996.

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 such hygienic precautions as will protect those with whom she comes in contact, from infection."11 She was set free.



The world isn't fair and you can see it clearly, from several different perspectives, in Mary's case.
For what it's worth.... I'm about done asking the same questions and expecting different answers on the board: /




Hopalong

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 10:27:19 PM »
Lighter.

You are the Senator Chris Dodd of this board, and I thank you for the filibuster.

I am sorry I haven't had the stamina to stand beside you.

Your imperfect approach and even your fury are cleansing and I think you may not know right away how you may have strengthened someone.

You're trying to stand for something just, and you don't have to be a perfect person to do that.

with love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 11:03:36 PM »
Here's a different answer:

Let God be God.

Jeremiah 12

Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 06:07:20 AM »
Dear Lighter, with a stomach ache and fear of abandonement, I am going to dare to post. Take it as just a thought. I like you and I love you.

I have the impression that you are, sicking justice. That you had a bad rotten little sister, spoil bratt, and you were wrongfully punished and she never took responsibility of the actions that she was guilty of and you were wrongfullty accused. Now you are furious because again is happening, and you feel that the authority figure here (parents in the past) were unfair to you, fire crackers from the past. So when you see unjustice or something that you perceve as unjustice of that kind, it makes you furious.

I relate very much to that. It ha happend to me all my life. Now I do not even care.

You remember I was in pursue of a residency position at a hospital, I worked for free for six months, had to get a loan, still paying it, and at the end they gave it to a hindu woman wife of a hindu doctor friend of a hindu doctor who is very rich and donates millions to the University. That woman is my age and went from 20 years of housewife to medical resident. No merits, no efforts.

My sister was spoil bratt too. Assuming that I an right in what I am saying, or at least a simlar relationship or situation.

If my post bothers you, let me know please, and I will erase it.

I am sure that any professional has reasons for what they decide to do. Reasons that are beyond our understanding. But it is not the love in here. It is just administration standards that people in charge have. Just that.

I am sure that Doctor Grossman appreciates you as much as we do.

Love to you and God bless you.