Addictions

[Ami]

Alone and I had  a discussion on another thread about 'yearning" for an N who has hurt you. This struck me as a very important subject--addictions to whatever.
 I think that I am ready to tackle "inner space". I never really faced my inner space before,even though it may have seemed that I have. I was trying to climb out of layers of lies and distortions. I have, to some degree. Now, I see that I have to 'look" inside at what is under any addiction. It is the "me" who I have been so afraid of.
 What is SO scary about me?
 The biggest healing that I am having right now is by talking to my M on the phone.  I am "with it" about life and people.  I just had to become the "crazy' one in order to protect her. Now, she can be the crazy one again and I don't have to "stop it" by throwing my" body in front of the train."
  I don't have to throw my body in front of the train,in any relationship. I thought that I did or life would spin out of control.
  What is inside of me that I had to throw away and run away from? I have always been afraid of my thoughts. I thought that I was a bad person if I did not have" perfect" thoughts. I want to be able to think 'whatever". That is a big goal for me.
 I want to think "whatever" and be at peace with it---not have the huge censor in my head  beat me with a stick  when my thoughts veer away from "acceptable"
  I think that this goal,alone, will help to make inner space more peaceful. If anyone can relate, I would love to hear your experiences.                 Ami

 

[alone48]

Ami, I think one of the hardest things I have done lately is admit my part in how things turned out. I say that N did this or that, but ulitmately I had reactions in all of it and helped to create the situations. I am not taking all the blame but trying to accept my part. Previously it was so easy to play the victim and I realize that I do it well, but I was listening to the radio and it was talking about God's forgiveness and you having to forgive yourself for what you have done. I guess to do that you have to be totally honest with your part in life.

I have a brother that is an alcoholic and on that is a drug addict. I was so proud that I had escaped these addictions, but recently realized I have my own they just aren't as visible. I'm addicted to pleasing people and having them like me. It seems since I have been working on that, I have been abandoned. Now did I pick the wrong people or have I carried my personality too far the other way? Thats what I'm looking at now.

[reallyME]

Ami, maybe it's just me, but since your mother visited, I'm having trouble understanding your posts in general.  I feel very confused about this one in particular...what do you mean you had to become the "crazy" and now your mother is crazy...like I said, maybe it's just me, but I am getting concerned about you.

~Laura

[Ami]

Sorry,Laura
I meant that I had to take on all her  bad "qualities" for her---so she didn't have to carry them---projection. Laura, I do feel really "different", but it seems like I am getting better,not worse(I sure hope so). Thanks so much for caring,Laura.
I guess that I am confused about my M. I think she is an N,but trying to face herself, so I may sound up and down ,in the whole thing.
  She is not a typical N b/c she is trying to get self awareness ,but it can only go so far ,it seems.
   Does that make sense,Laura?                    Love    Ami

((((((((Laura))))))))

[Leah]

Dear Ami,

You have mentioned that your Mother is a professional Therapist.

How many years has she been a Therapist?

Love, Leah

[Certain Hope]

Dear Ami,

My mother is not NPD, but she is very narcissistic... along with other destructive personality quirks.

Maybe your mother is not NPD either.

If your entire understanding of yourself and your situation has been based on the potentially false premise that she's NPD, then maybe it's just exactly that line of thought which is acting as one of your primary addictions?

Only a thought for you... because I've been caught on the same hook about various people in my own life.

Carolyn

[Ami]

Many, Leah--I think over 20 years. It is confusing to me now b/c she is owning that she is an N. She was reading Vaknin's book when she was here(She wanted  to take it,but I wouldn't give it up-lol)
She admits that she "was" an N,but now is facing the N areas and starting to get  a "core" of self love. So, I guess,  she wouldn't be an N anymore?
 Who knows(lol)?????                                          Ami.

[Certain Hope]

One more thing...

I have never believed that the complex of personality traits described by Sam Vaknin comprises a valid description of NPD.

I think that what he has bombarded the internet with = descriptions of a psychopath.

There are other more level headed/ sane descriptions of NPD available, you just have to dig for them.


Carolyn

[reallyME]

Carolyn, if you could, would you please provide some links or info that are more likely N rather than psychopathic.

I'll tell you something...way back when, I discovered a person of my past had Sam V's traits...and when I'd tell people what happened when I was with this person, people would say to me, "this X sounds more like a psychopath than a narcissist.  So, I think you HAVE something there, Carolyn.  Sam V is a psychopath, not a narcissist.

Ami, I have only one thing to say.  I don't know your mother, so please just be careful; whatever you do, don't lose your OBJECTIVITY.  Keep admitting that what you are seeing/hearing/experiencing, is really the TRUTH...NOT what your M wants you to believe.  PLEASE!  I just have such an "ick" feeling in my stomach about this.  I hope I'm just overreacting or something.

~Laura

[Ami]

Dear Ami,

My mother is not NPD, but she is very narcissistic... along with other destructive personality quirks.

Maybe your mother is not NPD either.

If your entire understanding of yourself and your situation has been based on the potentially false premise that she's NPD, then maybe it's just exactly that line of thought which is acting as one of your primary addictions?

Only a thought for you... because I've been caught on the same hook about various people in my own life.

Carolyn

Carolyn
 I don't understand what you mean by the line of thought acting as a primary addiction. Thanks so much for any clarification. I appreciate your help, Carolyn.              Ami

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
 Please say in words what you are feeling. Do you see me going down the tubes or s/thing? What are you trying to say "without saying it". I respect and value your opinion, Laura---alot.             Love  Ami

[Ami]

Dear Alone,
  I am in exactly the same place that you are. I am addicted to people, approval, etc. It hurts to face it,but it is true. It sounds like we have a similar belief in God.
  I am way out of God's will when I am addicted to anything.However, He understands that we are 'lost sheep"
  Anyway,Alone, maybe we can help each other get through this. What do you think?      Love   Ami

[Certain Hope]

Laura,

I deleted all of my old info/links on NPD, and it's been awhile... but it seems like some of the most solid info was from a University up in Minnesota or thereabouts. When I get a chance, will take another look, but basically you just have to google destructive narcissism or a similar search phrase and weed through the volumes of Vaknin stuff.

Ami,

Yes, I'll try to explain my view of it all.

The old line of thought =  "my mother is a horrible monster just like Sam Vaknin describes (NPD)and that's why I've been so miserable."

From that old line of thought came your understanding of your identity. You defined yourself based on your diagnosis of your mother as NPD.

So what if she's not?

Truly, I do not believe that someone who is bonafide NPD would read Vaknin's book and say, "yes, I am N."

Just take a look at what you've described, Ami.... it's as though you're saying that you have given your mother this "core of self-love" which she maybe is now starting to get?  I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. Not if she were really NPD.

I don't know what she is or isn't, but what I wonder is whether you have been addicted to defining her as NPD and yourself as her victim. Maybe she's just a very narcissistic/self-involved, self-centered, thoughtless person who was more interested in appearances than in living an authentic life.  That describes my mother... and as a result, she nearly raised 2 narcissistic children.

Carolyn

[alone48]

Of course, anyway we can help one another. It seems like when I am paying closer attention to God things aren't as bad, but like most I have a tendency to slip when things are better. You'd think I would learn, but I guess I'm a slow learner. I use to be pretty regular about going to church and just trying to walk with God, but I let N disturb that. I am trying to get back there now and hopefully it will be my saving grace. I am not a preacher type person, but certainly realize the need in my life.

[Ami]

So what if she's not?

Truly, I do not believe that someone who is bonafide NPD would read Vaknin's book and say, "yes, I am N."

Just take a look at what you've described, Ami.... it's as though you're saying that you have given your mother this "core of self-love" which she maybe is now starting to get?  I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. Not if she were really NPD.

I don't know what she is or isn't, but what I wonder is whether you have been addicted to defining her as NPD and yourself as her victim. Maybe she's just a very narcissistic/self-involved, self-centered, thoughtless person who was more interested in appearances than in living an authentic life.  That describes my mother... and as a result, she nearly raised 2 narcissistic children.

Carolyn







[/quote]

 Dear Carolyn,
   What would be the great difference in the upbringing with an NPD and an N like M? I guess that it would be a difference in intensity of craziness---right? The issues would be similar ,but the intensity would be quite different.
 Wouldn't a child be a victim of either ,but just much worse with the true NPD?   Thanks, Carolyn. If I am being dense, forgive me. I do feel like I am maybe missing a few things.               Ami