Our Shadow Side

[Ami]

If anyone would care to talk about this topic, I would be interested. I love Social Psychology,as you know. In horrible social tragedies, the question always arises,"HOW could this happen?" How could "Good Germans" kill their fellow citizens. How could a crowd let Kitty Genovese die and no one intervene.
  The Milgrim experiments tried to replicate Nazi Germany. Mikgrim  found that 60%(I think) of the participants would shock the man to death . 30--40% stood up and would NOT  do it.
  This leads me to question our 'shadow" side, as humans. Do we all have the capacity for evil? Is it a matter of choosing good over evil? Is it all about choice ,when it comes right down to it?
                             Ami

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Ami,

Are you seeking a Scriptural view or a secular humanistic one?

Carolyn

[Ami]

Any and all views are welcome, Carolyn.                   Ami

[Certain Hope]

okey, Ami... well, my view is based on Scripture, as I understand it... which is: the human heart is deceitful and wicked to the core, capable of all manner of evil, and desperately in need of a new birth in Christ Jesus.

Love,
Carolyn

[Leah]

Ami

Also, my view is based on Scripture, which is says that the human heart is deceitful and wicked, yes, to the core, and is capable of all manner of evil, and is desperately in need of a new birth in Christ Jesus.  For we are only a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Then, we are to have a teachable heart, and become a disciple, one who learns, and follows, in Spirit, and in Truth, along the only way, the narrow path, through Christ Jesus. 

Keeping to the path, with a true heart and discernment.  Keeping a short account and living a life of personal responsibilty and accountability.

Love, Leah


PS >  Sorry, as I realize that you are aware of all that in any case, as a fellow believer.   

[Lupita]

It maybe pertains to your subject. When I took Psychological foundations of education for my teacher certification, they showed us a documentary. Un experiment was made with children that were left alone in a living room for a few minutes. There is candy and they are told not to take the candy. Then mom and experimenter leave the room for a few minutes and observed the child. All of them took candy.  All kids took candy. When confronted, some of them apologized and took responsibility and some totally denied it. But all of them with out exception took the candy.

[Ami]

So, Carolyn, the reason all these horrible things could happen is b/c of the nature of man's heart , apart from the new birth. Does that sum it up?        Ami

[Leah]

When confronted, some of them apologized and took responsibility and some totally denied it

That's really interesting, Lupita

So, some of the children reacted with a conscience -- apologized -- which is an outward sign of personal responsibility

whilst, other children did not react with a conscience


Thank you for sharing this, as it really is most interesting to know.

Leah

[Lupita]

Thank you Lea. The most interesting part. The boys who did not react responsibly, were those who did not have identification with the parent of the same sex. Either did not have one, or were rejected by them or just did not feel that thier same sex parent was loving them.
They ended up the experiment with the creation of anxiety. Anxieti only comes in people who have attachement to others. People who had no attachements to other humans do not develop any anxiety. Killers, etc.

So, the degree of anxiety is going to develop conscience or not.

[Leah]

Thank you Lea. The most interesting part. The boys who did not react responsibly, were those who did not have identification with the parent of the same sex. Either did not have one, or were rejected by them or just did not feel that thier same sex parent was loving them.

They ended up the experiment with the creation of anxiety. Anxieti only comes in people who have attachement to others. People who had no attachements to other humans do not develop any anxiety. Killers, etc.

So, the degree of anxiety is going to develop conscience or not.

Again, thank you, Lupita,

A year or so ago, I listened to a speaker give a talk on the subject of the lack of attachment to the parent of same sex

with regard to Challenging Behaviour Patterns.

The root cause being, the boys had no love or attachment with their father, and likewise, the girls had no love or attachment with their mother.

Of course, not all children, but some.

Interesting, thank you.

Love, Leah

[Lupita]

Those who developed sociopathies, had  a very low degree of anxiety. Those who did not have anxiety, had not developed any king of attachment. I would say the parents did not elicit any kind of attachment .

Low or no anxiety does not help you study for an exam. Too much anxiety does not let you take the exam, moderate anxiety helps you succeed the exam.  To mention an example.

[Certain Hope]

So, Carolyn, the reason all these horrible things could happen is b/c of the nature of man's heart , apart from the new birth. Does that sum it up?        Ami

Basically, yes, Ami... that is how I see it, per Scripture - one example of this, per the Lord Jesus in Matthew 15, especially verses 18-19
"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.   
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 

Carolyn

[Lupita]

For example those who pull your wings out and complain when you say ouch. No anxiety.
Anxiety produces remource.
Lack of remource-------> repeat the offence----------> repeatitive behavior------------->predominant attitud---------->personality disorder

[Lupita]

Basically, yes, Ami... that is how I see it, per Scripture - one example of this, per the Lord Jesus in Matthew 15, especially verses 18-19
"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.   


Of course. The thoughts produce feelings, and feelings produce actions. Speaking is an action.

Bad thoughts are going to produce bad feelings and bad actions. And viceverse.

The compulsion of talking is one of the most difficult to control.

That is why James said if you control your tongue you can control everything.

[Lupita]

For example, just in the new today, the boyfriend was spilling hot oil on a baby 14 month old because  annoyed with  crying.
A 12 yo bit a 16 months old to death with a baseball bat for too much noise.
No remorse. No anxiety.