Subtle Damage to the Senses

[Sealynx]

Hi PR,
I wish your words were a generalization but they are dead on with the possible exception of things getting better.

[Sealynx]

TT,
Unfortunately you will NEVER hear that assessment come from the mouth of a senator or congressmen, red or blue. We are being told what we want to hear, who to be mad at and that the future will be better.

There is so much more I could say, like many people don't realize the amount of money to be made in "rebuilding a country" once it has been bombed to pieces. We will continue to spend billions rebuilding countries like Iraq, not for the people, but because many of our political figures are heavily invested in the currency of those countries.

It goes like this. Buy Iraq's currency now for a fraction of a cent. Hold it until the country is back on its feet pumping oil. If you bought even a 1000 dollars at a penny each and it goes up even to 10 cents. Do the math, You've just made $10K. Even with taxation taking up to 50% you are still have a tidy sum that no other investment could give you. Believe me the people who have the power to keep the rebuilding effort going are not investing just a $1000. This is one reason why all our billions of dollars go to remake other countries and not into healthcare and education.
S

[BonesMS]

Hey Sealynx - my condolences for being in "higher" ed...  <sarcasm>.

My experiences started when I finally overcame the bureaucratic hurdles to get accepted/registered - at 28. Then, being ostracized because I did the assignments, enjoyed them, got good grades, and felt more comfortable with the faculty than my immature classmates. In fact, I felt a bit cheated and disappointed at the level of material.

Later, I taught tech subjects FT at the CC level... and then spent 9 years managing online ed software systems & integrations...while training my underpaid/overworked faculty in how to teach with it. I've become well-acquainted with a lot of the issues and yeah, some people even listen to my opinion! 

Any discussion of ed comes back to the fact that we no longer fail students, nor set absolute criteria for grades - you can always challenge a grade and many students do. Back ups of online courses are frequently called upon to prove that the student didn't do the work required. But in their minds - that shouldn't matter. Why? Because they were passed along when they were younger, they didn't become acquainted with the old-fashioned concept of "learning from your mistakes"... oh no - we couldn't even point out those mistakes. At my husband's CC, 70% of the students are enrolled in remedial courses simply to bring their skills up to the range of college-level work.

A common complaint I've heard from faculty, is that the student strongly believes that it's the instructor's responsibility to magically transfer "knowledge" to them... and that simply attending class is enough to "qualify" them in that knowledge. The result, that I've seen first hand when hiring students... is that they are resentful of being expected to actually DO work and literally don't know how to do many things - and have no interest in how things work, how to make things, how to solve problems. If you just ignore the problem, it will "go away"... because one can't fail.

This translates into an economy of workers who don't know HOW and don't WANT to "make things" - i.e., manufacturing or solve problems - i.e., creative innovation. Thankfully, my soapbox rant is a wide generalization. There are some very notable exceptions and schools are seeing an increase in young people wanting to learn real hands-on skills. It may take another generation or so, but the pendulum will swing back around... away from the "I'm so special... so I'm entitled" mentality.

and don't get me started on the administrations... sigh. They'll be the last to "get it".

This reminds me of a situation I dealt with while I was working in a university office years ago.  My then-supervisor hired a student to "help" out but he either didn't show up when he was supposed to, left early to "go party", or made MORE MESSES that the rest of us had to clean up!  Whenever I said ANYTHING to my then-supervisor about this student NEEDING TO LEARN RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, her frequent response would be:  "but....he's only a student...."  I asked her WHEN he was supposed to learn how to work and be responsible....the day he graduates from university?!?!?!?!?  I NEVER got an answer!

A few years later, when I transferred to another office, on the same campus, guess who I found there?  That SAME student doing the SAME NONSENSE!!!!!  At first my new boss didn't want to listen to me until it finally starting impacting HIM personally!!!!!  (The boss actually chided me because I strenuously objected to this student bringing his marijuana to the office and the weed-minded idiot accidentally sent his stash to the Dean's Office!!!!!  I was DONE with this student's MESS!!!   )  The new boss finally agreed to fire him after he pulled No-Call/No-Show's for several days straight running and watched the TTY call I made to his mother and read his mother's REFUSAL to get him OUT OF HIS BED because he was TOO TIRED FROM PARTYING THE NIGHT BEFORE!!!!  (This student's mother CONSTANTLY BABIED HIM!!!!)  Unfortunately, this student NEVER learned responsibility for himself or others until the day he died after partying too much!!

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

Oh that's good Bones - about sending his stash to the Dean! LOL!!

I guess I woke up "on the crabby side" this morning and Sealynx's comments triggered my old negativity about the state of affairs in academia... but is it still "negativity" (that is, something to be avoided and never, never said out loud officially) if it's true and causing problems? At some point, I think, these kinds of stories need to be heard by administrators... and understood to mean, that their flowery, ostrich-like public image is the very opposite of the "naked emporer" of reality... and that statistically, there's more of this going on (if they're even tracking it) than they are willing to admit - or address.

At the end of my time there, I was pretty convinced that academic bureaucracies have some pretty huge N-spots (and ability to self-delude)... but then, self-interest and self-perpetuation is the main goal of any bureaucracy...

[BonesMS]

Oh that's good Bones - about sending his stash to the Dean! LOL!!

I guess I woke up "on the crabby side" this morning and Sealynx's comments triggered my old negativity about the state of affairs in academia... but is it still "negativity" (that is, something to be avoided and never, never said out loud officially) if it's true and causing problems? At some point, I think, these kinds of stories need to be heard by administrators... and understood to mean, that their flowery, ostrich-like public image is the very opposite of the "naked emporer" of reality... and that statistically, there's more of this going on (if they're even tracking it) than they are willing to admit - or address.

At the end of my time there, I was pretty convinced that academic bureaucracies have some pretty huge N-spots (and ability to self-delude)... but then, self-interest and self-perpetuation is the main goal of any bureaucracy...

I agree!

After I left academia, I was so fed up with their self-serving cr*p!

Bones

[Sealynx]

The "head in the sand" attitude has a lot to do with politics, especially in this economy. In most public institutions the presidents and board are not made up of educators. Yes, they have degrees, but their job is to play politics with the legislature to get money and then hand down edicts to the deans about what has to be done. That means they are not concerned with faculty issues and effectively limit the ability of the deans to convey student issues to the top. They may say they want faculty input (usually to meet accreditation standards), but you better make sure you say what they want and need to hear. The deans may understand and feel sorry for you, but it is wise never to ask someone to do something they can't do. They have a job to keep too.

So the only place where a response can be mounted is at the faculty level. Complaining is dangerous because the board and president will save money every time a senior faculty member quits or shows they can't "deal with students" and can be replaced by someone just out of school who will probably spend most of their academic life teaching part time. Blaming the student will quickly earn you a workshop on how to better teach the "new student type." In other words, you are always the problem. It is the new "corporate model" that education embraced a few years ago.

When students first started refusing to do college level work, we were instructed to turn education into a game and come up with group activities for them to do instead of reading and responding to lecture. We were forced to undergo "training" and had to completely redo our syllabus to comply. In other words we were told to adjust to them. But as we all know, giving in to N behavior by creating an environment that they like, does not make them better people. I was talking to a colleague today who teaches English. She commented that she is seeing "Honor Students" from high school who can't write a paragraph. Of course they think their poor grades are her fault for expecting too much.

I agree that we are making degrees worthless by allowing this, but the system is set up to blame and replace teachers, not resist N behaviors. We have also given up the idea that some people aren't college material. I had to prove that to get into school. Now we even have something called the ABT, ability to benefit test. It measures not whether you know anything, but if you are ABLE to learn.

[sKePTiKal]

Oh Sealynx, I really DO feel for ya, honey... it's truly an absurdly frustrating place to be if you have any respect at all for teaching, learning, and knowledge.

Wanna know a secret? It was my experience with HEd that actually triggered and brought up all my long-buried past and what I'd suffered through. The more I saw of how things worked and realized the reality of the results, the more trapped & helpless & angry I felt. When I finally "retired" I'd gotten to the point where I'd convinced myself that the whole system - the way it is - is N. I'm still of that opinion, pretty much... at least of the higher ed diploma factories, more concerned about tuition dollars than preparing students to be responsible, contributing members of society who can manage their own life-long learning.

But, again in general, the institutions are only paying lip service to the "corporate model" of education. There is no accountability - no measurement of "success/failure" for all the various initiatives and fashionable education techniques - no ROI on dollars invested. Even the most basic business procedures and "policies" are violated or waived and never consistently enforced on a daily and weekly basis. And no one cared that those "exceptions" created long-term issues or set a precedent for even more exceptions. These institutions aren't "too big to fail" in the business sense, but unfortunately failures disappear into a cloud of denial and their lifespan as entities continues through the false promises (or at least uncertain promises) of personal success for students via time/effort/many tuition dollars invested in that "piece of paper".

After all, the most genuine interest my institution had in students, was as alumni who reflect well on the university - and who actively contribute to endowments. Utterly cynical, aren't I? It will probably take quite a few more years before I can "let that go".

[Sealynx]

"When I finally "retired" I'd gotten to the point where I'd convinced myself that the whole system - the way it is - is N. I'm still of that opinion, pretty much... at least of the higher ed diploma factories, more concerned about tuition dollars than preparing students to be responsible, contributing members of society who can manage their own life-long learning."

Higher Ed has always been a magnet for N's because it is the one place you get validation for being "perfect" and not allow anyone to disagree with you.

[teartracks]

Hi Sealynx,

Higher Ed has always been a magnet for N's because it is the one place you get validation for being "perfect" and not allow anyone to disagree with you.

I've never seen this manifested more prominently than the surrounds of the Research Triangle of NC.  When introductions are made (of course the introduction is to the 'paper' not the person), it reverbrates like shock waves to whoever (Uh, was that supposed to be whomever?  'Paper' missing!) is in hearing distance and you'd have to be hard of hearing not to 'catch the wave'!

tt

[Butterfly]

"

Higher Ed has always been a magnet for N's because it is the one place you get validation for being "perfect" and not allow anyone to disagree with you.

Sounds like Higher Ed = Cult. 

[Lucky]

I was just reading this:
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/02/psychological-neoteny-and-npd.html
Charlton and others who espouse this theory of psychological neoteny attribute it to higher education. And higher, higher education. And higher, higher, higher education viewed as a virtue for never ending. That is why, he says, psychological neoteny is characteristic of the highly educated. He claims that many never achieve mental adulthood. The results include a retention of child-like behaviors like slavishness to fashion/peer pressure as well as sensation seeking and novelty seeking behavior that prefers sensational and novel ideas to the obvious.

The perpetually educated make wide-open-mindedness a virtue. A wide-open mind is boundless wild spaces - not a garden - where anything blowing in the wind can take root and grow. Apparently even the wildest, common sense defying ideas.

Obviously, malignant narcissists have a terminal case of cognitive flexibility, but my point here is a question: Does psychological neoteny partly explain the behavior of academia and the mental healthcare establishment?

Like children, they get mad at people who don't buy what they are selling about NPD and psychopathy. They overreact, getting all upset and worried, worried, worried about what they view as the wrong thinking of others. (They seem to view disagreeing with them as far more evil than anything the narcissist does.) They try to control/suppress this heresy. You can see this on message boards and blogs. As I've said before, many will try to tell you that, though you've lived with a narcissist for 20 years, or though you ARE a narcissist, you know nothing about NPD. Absurd. They are so far gone they will tell you that you aren't "qualified" to say anything about it based on your experiences with narcissists.

Passing over the suppression of information and violence to free speech in that, how childish can people get? That's like covering your little ears and stamping your little foot and screaming bloody murder to silence anyone saying anything you don't want them to. Only spoiled brats must make it sound evil to disagree with them. Psychological neoteny.

What "qualifies" them to know about NPD? Book learning, period.
The clinical literature on NPD is highly theoretical, abstract, and general, with sparse case material, suggesting that clinical writers have little experience with narcissism in the flesh.

Exactly. That ain't science. That's conjecture, speculation - and by people with little experience of narcissism in the flesh. In other words, this so-called "clinical literature" is basically just glorified essays based almost entirely on the reading of other glorified essays.

That kind of information isn't superior to firsthand observation and direct knowledge in everyday experience with narcissists - it's INFERIOR. Its sole value is in the ideas it may come up with - which are nothing until scientifically tested.

Worse, what does pass for "research" and "statistics" is so illegitimate that much of it smells like a deliberate attempt to confuse and deceive. By that I mean that experts just don't make the gross mistakes these so-called authorities make.(See The Credibility of Authority for a little enlightenment on how little credibility this establishment has on NPD.) For example, they seize upon a logical-error ridden essay with its never-tested hypothesis speculating about the mental health of European royals back to the 12th century as worthy of their general acceptance of this untested hypothesis that NPD is genetically inherited. Experts can't honestly be that stupid, and honest experts would have surveyed the children of narcissists to test this hypothesis long ago by now. So, this is just cognitive flexibility like that oil pipeline in Afghanistan - swallow whole ANYTHING to support your cherished myth in the face of real evidence against it. Similarly they seize upon brain differences in psychopaths as if they don't know that that there are two possible explanations for it: the more likely one they betray no awareness of, and the LEAST likely one they all "know." Again, cognitive flexibility to produce bogus "facts" that shore up a cherished myth.

And these: http://patrissimo.livejournal.com/1242821.html
http://www.mypostingcareer.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56-the-stupidity-of-intelligence/