"Nobody will ever love you as much as I do"

[Redhead Erin]

Mine was much more sublte than that.  But I got the message.

My reaction was, Really? Let me see about that . . . .

No wonder I split and got married at 19.;

[SilverLining]

    The in-built implicit message is 'dont separate from me', ie I dont support you to grow into a life where you are deeply fulfilled in love.  I want you dependent on me.  If you feel guilt also as a result of this statment, thats not my problem.  As well, in my world, the way I relate is to be the bestest at everything, including loving you.  I AM the centre of the world in my universe, as well as in yours.  
 And there you have it, the relational anatomy of the way an N relates.   And I wouldnt be suprised if this actually came out of a tiny kernal of real love.   But in the disorders of the self, specially N, all legitimate real feelings are hijacted, and co-opted for the purpose of control, grandiosity ect, the usual N type agenda's.  
phew, thanks for that opportunity to get all that out,  not many people in the world would care or understand this at all.    

Well said River!  That definitely fits with what I experienced in the FOO.  First it was close to 20 years of emotional neglect.  Then it was 20 years of loading on the guilt and phony emotion in order to keep the structure intact.  The feelings I had about the situation were of no concern at all.   

[river]

   

....... First it was close to 20 years of emotional neglect.  Then it was 20 years of loading on the guilt and phony emotion in order to keep the structure intact.  The feelings I had about the situation were of no concern at all.   

   Do any such adult children want nurturing from their parents I wonder? I mean, really want it, as opposed to missing what they didn't get. Maybe. I imagine they might, if they like their parent and enjoy their company. Kind of difficult for me to imagine though.
 

Ouch for both of these, + very clearly put.  (I borrowed one from other post).  The reason 'ouch' is that I also see my own pattern here.   Big difference is that I have tried to make amends.  Big puzzle and ~ as well as a cause of feeling alienated,  for me is why did no body have the understanding of this whole dynamic of the disorders in all those years I searched for help.  I myself missed the chance to fulfil those loving years when my child was little.   I had my own disorder, but it wasn't N. disorder, it was the other disorder that is commonly a result of the fall out of a family organised around an N. 

[Lupita]

Yes, she said that to me and also said that she was the only one to give a kidney if I needed it.

[Hopalong]

I have a lot of guilt around this...

I wasn't trying to manipulate my D, I loved her with all my flawed heart, but no question, it was an enmeshing thing.

I did not know that. I had no idea that's what I was doing.

I am miserable over having not helped her grow up sound.
I know others (including her father, my mother, etc.) contributed...but I am so sad about it.

Hops

[Guest]

(((((((((Hops)))))))))

It is by no means the worst thing to say to a person. There are many worse things. I have said worse myself, and heard worse.

[river]

  Something about the way I share seems to result in me being left alone.   In contrast to the response hops got, although I think we both were describing similar life experiences.

[Guest]

River

are you feeling alone on this board, is that what you're saying?

I read your post and want you to know I acknowledge it. Even if people don't say so, they read and most probably understand what you say. I respond to very few posts but I wanted to say, you aren't alone (((((((((River))))))))).

[river]

Thanks, freshwater.   I felt very risky and embarrassed about having said that, but decided to say it anyway. 
I feel acknowledged now.   
I wanted to break a pattern. 
r. 

[JustKathy]

River, I try to read all of the posts, but sometimes I don't reply because I don't have an answer, or fear saying the wrong thing. I don't want to hurt someone's feelings by trying to respond to an issue that I don't have knowledge of or experience dealing with. I figure it's better to say nothing than to put my foot in my mouth and say something potentially hurtful. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. Do know that your posts are being read.

Kathy

[Hopalong]

I didn't say this exact thing to my D, but something similar enough, once...it was about my own feeling that I love her more than any other human being.

Maybe I'm too quick to indict myself.

Hi, ((((((((River))))))) -- the only difference I could pick up between your post and mine was maybe that mine included quite a few words that described my feelings/emotions.

Maybe that invites empathy -- regardless of why, I am grateful.

I don't like the notion of comparing responses though...suggests competition.

You deserve compassion and comfort too!

love,
Hops

[Meh]

I think I see what you are saying, her phrasing of the expression is kind of twisted right?

The original post "Nobody will ever love you as much as I do".....I think is heard to mean something more like..."Nobody will ever really love you".. (Maybe I'm wrong, just guessing). The start of this sentence is Nobody will ever love you.....

Someone could have said other things right...like "I love you so much"...or "The love I feel for you is stronger then anything I have ever experienced". "I love you more then I have ever loved anybody else." OR "I will never love anybody as much as I love you."




 

[Meh]

I have a lot of guilt around this...
I wasn't trying to manipulate my D, I loved her with all my flawed heart, but no question, it was an enmeshing thing.
I did not know that. I had no idea that's what I was doing.
I am miserable over having not helped her grow up sound.
I know others (including her father, my mother, etc.) contributed...but I am so sad about it.
Hops

Sounds like this is really eating at you Hops.

(sorry for therapizing) It's just that when I read here what you have put down, I get a visual picture of the guilt like a burden that is stuck on you but stuck on you really hard and really close and almost like you are holding it so you have something to hold on to. Like the intensity of the enmeshment is related to the intensity of the attachment/holding to the guilt.
I don't know maybe I shouldnt say that at all? Maybe it is not accurate.

Hops, you sound like you have so much remorse for your shortcomings or mistakes you may have made with your daughter and that sounds a lot different to me then most of the Narcissists described in the stories on the board that never really appear to show concern for how they are impacting other's around them nor do any Narcissists ever show a desire for a higher quality relationship with the impacted one.

Maybe you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

The point is not to make the mistakes over and over right?

[Meh]

Actually I shouldn't say that Narcisists never show a desire for a higher quality relationship. My mother did go to a therapist who told her just to try "being nice" to me. And she was for about two weeks back in April/May of this year. I knew better then to get my hopes up though.

It only lasted for about two weeks and now I know what it would feel like IF my mother was nice to me, it's well really nice.

[Hopalong]

Boat, thank you. You completely got the distinction.
You're right, what I was saying to my D back then was how much I love her.
Not that "nobody will ever...".

And the guilt. Thank you for seeing how I have too much and hold it too tightly. Really, thank you.

My D has a pattern of kind of swarming me with communication when she's in a crisis. I'm usually so relieved to have the contact that I just step in to help, and we'll be in touch daily, and I'll think at the same time -- oh, we're really in relationship again. So even though what's happening may be hard, there's a part of me that's grateful for the connection.

Then when my funds run out and she's moved on, she tends to drop communication again. Kind of swinging from one extreme to another. Makes holidays hard. (She doesn't acknowledge them so I have to work at getting emotionally ready for those days.) I do have to work on feelings of abandonment. Self pity (my only child, won't even call me on Thanksgiving...kind of thoughts. They start, and I shake them off and put them away).

She is also insightful and blunt and sometimes says brutal but accurate things. Most recently she said, "I think you can't handle the separation" and "I can't find my own intiative if I have to respond to many messages from you".

She was right. Well, I've handled a LOT of separation, but she's right it's difficult. And as to the intiative...made complete sense to me. I got it.

Thanks again Boat...
Hops