update - NC broken but will be maintained

[Ales2]

Hi everyone,

I had to share - I have been NC with my NMom since April 2010 when she showed up at my doorstep accusing me of stealing my Dad's paperwork. She claims I stole his death certificate.  I never did, never even saw the document she refers to.  I told her to "get out" and she left. I was furious. A couple of weeks later, saturday before Mothers Day 2010, I went to her home to clean out a closet I had there. We exchanged a few words, but I was there with a purpose, clean my closet, dont argue with her and return the keys I've had since 1986 (the year I left for college) as I want no further contact with the old house.  Since then, I have kept to my word, with two exceptions - December 2011, she called me after she heard I had a car accident to see if I was OK. It was three sentences. "I'm fine. I hope the guy doesn't sue me ( I rear-ended him) and thanks for your call."

Keep in mind, I have a financial agreement with her where I am getting a monthly deposit since I am out of work. Not a great arrangement, but when my Dad passed away, I was told there was no will, no inheritance. So years later when I needed help, I asked (which I regret), a temporary agreement was made (which I thought would be 2-3 months) but has gone much past that. During that time, I discovered that she is far better off than she's admitted to, in fact, I discovered a web of lies and deceit on her end. I've come to believe that her selfishness, lies and deceit is all about control, manipulation and distrust of us kids as a result of her Nism, not really a reflection on us adult (41 and 43) "kids".  If anything, I regret not having made a more autonomous agreement with her, but I did not have full knowledge (her Nism, her resources, my autonomy)  at the time and of course, didn't really want the money anyway, just wanting to move on with my life.

So this past weekend, I had to call her to ask two medical questions and we spoke briefly. She asked about my cats and and I kept it cordial. I just  wanted information and wanted to reveal as little as possible about my life. She never asked about how long I would need help or anything, which surprised me, but I was also relieved because I want to avoid that topic completely.  She then asked when she could come visit me and I said (without much thought) "what would be the point of that?". She was speechless. The call ended right after that.

As I was reflecting on it today, I did well. I was not prepared for the question, but have thought over the last couple of weeks, that I have outgrown her nonsense, and my response certainly showed me that it feels real. I wasn't drawn in at all. I don't even try to consider her feelings, I'm just focused on protecting myself, because I know any other response has the potential to draw me in and that wont happen ever again.   

Also, leately, I've had  arecurring dream where I am sitting with my fiance (who seems to take the form of business partner I had a crush on last year), my Mother and my Brother and when she asks about our wedding, I rather palinly respond - "Why would you want to come, you've never been supportive of my love life, cared who I'm with or even wished me a happy family of my own." And, sadly, its the truth, I can imagine myself saying this and it feels appropriate, totally true, although a little cruel.  I guess this conversation and the dreams I have had are reflecting a change in who I am, how I feel and how I will deal with her in the future.

Anyway, the best part of NC has taught me how little I ever needed her in the first place and how much I have grown without her involvement. I'll never go back to the way things were and thats mostly sad for her, great for me. I've moved on.  The other day I was asking myself why things in my life have not changed as much as I need them to and the answer came back to me that I have not changed enough yet. So, more work to do to find a new job, a relationship ( a REAL one, with a marriage commitment) and a new place to live...

I'm hoping 2012 will be a great year!  All the best to everyone!

[Ales2]

Okay here is what I wrote in my journal today about why any kind of reconciliation with her would be impossible:

She can't be trusted ever again (this after indirectly and directly lying about her financial situation in regards to my Dad's estate for 20 plus years). I wouldn't have learned anything about Nism  if I let her back into my life. The problem is insidious, begins innocently becomes serious slowly. Hard to see the slippery slope with her. There is no way to keep the positive and deal with or eliminate the negative. Avoidance or NC is really the only way.

What she does is not outright abuse, she is an underminer, which robs my self esteem, autonomy and discourages my assertiveness. (this follows me into other aspects of my life). She also lies, manipulates and misleads - a very slippery slope. The slope is invisible until you've taken the fall and are badly hurt.

The problem is also invisible to bystanders and others, which leaves the problem entirely in my lap without any kind of validation, support or much needed guidance. Hence the need to be totally NC and self responsible.

 

 

[Ales2]

Thanks tt - this is excellent thank you.  Could you explain what you mean by people who need to be autonomous can fall prey to manipulators? It sounds kind of obvious - manipulators know we are weak so they find us or we choose them because we choose subservience.  Is this what you were saying or is there another point I am missing?

[Hopalong]

Ales, I'm truly sorry.
It takes such courage to face the feeling of motherlessness when the mother is still alive.

TT, there you are again.
You could have been bitter for how long it took to understand, instead you decided to be grateful you now understand.

(Please come coach my life.)



Hops

[Ales2]

Oh tt - you misunderstood what I was asking! I'm sorry - no hurt was intended towards you!

You are right.  It is obvious.  I smack my forehead and say, How could I not get it?  Why did it take so long?

No, no, no, its not obvious to those of us who are victims of Ns! It takes learning, just as you said, the unlearning of bad habits and hangups. My T once put it this way, its like having a bald spot on the back of your head, you know its there, but you can't see it, you can only view it in the mirror and even then the image is backwards. We KNOW its there and we have to be told to look to understand its shape and all its quirks.  There is no reason to "smack your forehead"! I just thought that maybe there was more to your explanation than I was seeing.

I agree with everything you said!

And, Hops, yes thank you for your kind words. I so often read what is going on with your D and want to offer support but often dont know what I can say that would be helpful, except to say, I'm sorry... you sound so caring, thoughtful and helpful and I'm sorry your relationship is painful.

Thanks to you both...

[sKePTiKal]

Well, the way I saw it as a kid - and before I ever learned about all this - is that I was brainwashed.

From my mom's side of things, this was perfectly acceptable, normal, and she truly NEEDED* to brainwash me, keep me on that short dependent leash. From my side of things - I fought this like a cat being held over a bathtub... and ran & hid every single chance I got. And of course, I think we all desire that deep, deep connection with at least one person... a mom is the natural candidate... at exactly the same time we desire, need, and are addicted to autonomy, self-efficacy and competence.

When mom is a threat to autonomy and plain old dangerous, there exists a classic inner "conflict". There are probably as many ways of "living with" that conflict as there people... and each of us does try many different things, until we find the combination that's just right for us.... at least, I certainly hope that a right combination exists!   

*I'm tired of trying to decide whether this is objectively "good" or "bad". It was bad for me, it happened. It was what it was.

[Ales2]

Phoenix - Brainwashed is an excellent word to describe what I went through as well. I look at it as more like I was lied to, controlled, manipulated and misled (i.e brainwashed) and when I questioned things or tried to assert myself, I was gaslit.  It took more than a while to figure things out (almost 40 years) and undo alot of things. I also notice something strange that I might have to deal with - is that on PMS days, the emotions can actually be triggered by reading or seeing something that brings up the emotion. So either I am clearing the emotion from the all the painful stuff I went through or I have another problem I am not yet aware of (besides pms and depressive mood swings).
 

[sKePTiKal]

I think I know what you mean, Ales... it's like a reflex emotional detox'ing. Almost more bio-based...

and one always "feels better" or at least cleaner, clearer, lighter... afterwards. This is a bizarre idea that just popped into my head: but maybe we do actually hold all that toxic crap in various of the millions or billions of cells in our body... and that keeps the thoughts/emotions associated with it running along in a vicious cycle... until we finally purge it all out.

[Ales2]

An update - Last week (friday),  I had to call my NMom regarding a tax issue. She has been helping me since I lost my job (I partly felt entitled to ask her because I did not inherit anything when my dad passed away 12 years ago) and I had to ask about some details about all of that. Turns out it is just what I expected, including more lies and bad financial planning on her part.

Anyway. my concern was just that now the NC has been broken, again, for a series of discussions on how to deal with the money issue. I told her trivial details about my cats and gossiped about friends, but also saw an old pattern emerge that I am very aware of (i.e me marginalizing myself to get her support or encouragement. Its very weird. She marginalizes me a little by suggesting I take a lesser position and salary, but weirdly, I then marginalize myself.) I know that this financial issue needs to be resolved and then I have to get back to being NC.  If I sense she attempts to delay the decisions to spend more time talking to me, I will quickly tell her call me when you decide.   Simple as that.

Not sure any of this makes sense.

[Ales2]

The issue is mostly resolved now, just a matter of filing some paperwork. 

What lingers is that I can see now that NC has been broken, she is attempting to make nice with me and is actually making offers "in my best interest".
She truly has no clue as to what that it is.  She also attempts to make delusional offers (such as selling her home to buy me a home free and clear - yeah right!) to get back into my good graces. This only leaves me four alternatives when she goes back to the non-sense. One is reconcile, now that I know the game and can't be taken advantage of, stay in limited contact; Two - call her on it - it won't happen and I would not want it if it did  (does anyone want to accept a gift from an N that they can take back or use that to stay in one's life - NOOOOO!), go back to NC and Three - tell her I am aware of her undermining tricks, dont like it, want my autonomy and won't go back to the relationship -telling her its best we not speak, go back to NC..  Fourth option - just go back to NC without any explanation.

Whats "in my best interest" is me developing my autonomy and requires no involvement on her part!

Oh, option One is not an option and wont really ever be considered, four is probably most likely. Two and Three are potentially hazardous and would escalate problems, not solve anything. 

[Ales2]

Latest news is that the current situation has blown over and I will be going back to NC.   I wanted to point out some observations that I'm still learning from.  Even though I think of myself as autonomous now, and her lack of support no longer matters to me,  her lack of support and mixed messages is quickly evident in our conversations and its the reason I want to remain NC. 

One thing I notice with her is that my voice cracks and becomes timid. I can hear it and feel it, that is always an indication to me, my self esteem is dropping and it will make it hard for me to be assertive.

She tends to be manipulative, dangling promises and ideas she will never fulfill (like buying me a home outright), she exhibits no empathy or understanding, she marginalizes me and when I marginalize myself, fails to encourage me, she doesn't support meaningful career growth, always wants to send me back to school, not realizing going back to entry level won't solve anything, she doesn't encourage me to stand up for myself, always assumes I am the troublemaker, not the other person, with her its not so much about bad advice, but how she makes me feel worse about myself, by lowering my self esteem and that is not constructive.  There are some mixed messages her as well and I think some of the mixed messages are  ultimately why my life is a mixed bag as well.

The only thing in my best interest is remaining NC and becoming more assertive and autonomous.

I have not been posting much on other threads, forgive me, have been caught up in my own non-sense, but wish all my friends here on the board a great month.

[Ales2]

I should also add- lets not forget the April 2010 accusations of stealing my Dad's paperwork. There is NO excuse for what she did, she knows very well I did not steal ANYTHING, EVER and this was some kind of N rage that she somehow thought would get me to cave or something. A week or so later, she did the very same thing to my brother. She never offered an apology or straightened this out, and I would likely not accept an apology as I know it was a complete manufactured LIE on her part. This is a sign of how serious her NPD is and even though she tries to make nice now, I have no illusions that nothing has changed.

I often say she is like a riptide- the ocean looks calm on the surface, so you swim farther out, taking a bigger risk, only to discover you are stuck in a riptide. And like an N that cannot be confronted, you can's swim back to shore directly, you have to parallel the beach to get out of the riptide before swimming back to shore. Great metaphor for Ns and conflict.

[Ales2]

Hi All - Things in my life have been challenging especially on the tax/banking/starting a business venture/ front. My NMom is taking advantage of these opportunities to get me on the phone and chat with her and she came to visit one night. Not good for me. Added stress and it was necessary for me to put aside NC for awhile. I don't like being anywhere near her, I've just outgrown her non-sense.

Anyway, went to my T to complain again about NMom issues and as I was leaving I texted him the following message.  "As I was leaving,  I'm wondering why you see me making no progress and are not offering more advice to overcome my issues and improve my life.  Am I missing somehing?"

So, I await his response. I know I am supposed to solve my own problems but then what is the point of T? 

[Twoapenny]

Hi Ales,

I was in a similar situation with my T about a year ago.  What I finally figured out was that I had all the tools I needed to fix my problems, but I wasn't fixing them.  She could see that and I couldn't.  She'd kind of become my substitute mum - someone I could go to once a week and receive nurturing, validation, support -  unconditionally.  I think she was able to see that I was able to cope on my own, I suppose, but I hadn't seen that.  I guess a bit like a real mum knowing you can do something and refusing to do it for you, so that you get on and do it by yourself - dealing with a difficult situation for the first time, say, as a teenager.

Obviously I don't know you or your situation really, really well, so I'm not saying that is what is going on for you, but maybe it's something to consider (and discard if it's not relevant!).

With the NC thing - I hope this doesn't sound harsh as I don't mean it to at all, but I don't think you can be NC if you accept anything from someone - whether it's money/gifts/the odd phone call - anything at all.

As I said, I hope that doesn't sound harsh, I really don't mean it to.  For me personally, I'd had periods of little contact with my mum for quite some years before stopping altogether.  What I found was that, during those times, she'd be real nice, give me nice things, take me and my boy out and generally step into caring mummy role.  I think the little girl in me wanted that so badly that, even though my brain, my intellect knew what she was doing, something inside me openend up and I'd get my heart broken all over again.  I think the prospect of being completely motherless can be so terrifying that we subconsciously find ways to put it off - by coping with their behaviour better, making excuses for them, telling ourselves it's not so bad.  Then we go full circle and wind up being ill and stressed out and so the dance continues.  It's exhausting.

I don't know if I'm getting my thoughts down very clearly - it's early here!  I've tried to look at myself recently as seeking progression, not perfection.  It sounds as though you've been coping with a difficult financial situation recently and that you've been in touch with your Mum and not fallen back into the web, so to speak, that sounds like progress.  It seems you've found a situation with your T that you're not entirely happy with and you've been assertive and said something - that's progress.  It probably doesn't feel like it at the minute, but they're steps in the right direction.  I'm sorry not to have any answers for you, I hope by chewing things over it starts to get a bit clearer and feel a bit easier.

In the mean time, here is a great big motherly, nurturing, unconditional hug (((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ales)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Is there time for Ales at the minute?  Are you being nice to yourself, looking after yourself, treating and rewarding yourself?  They are all things I find helpful, and I find I do them the least when I need them the most - typical!  Hope you are doing okay xx

[Ales2]

Not doing so great again today. Miserable.  I feel worse after therapy. Problem is that in the past, I worked to have a good attitude in negative situations never realizing how truly hurt I was by things.  In the end, nothing ever worked out right then either. Now I can't seem to stay positive about anything, I'm just too wounded and because I know it will just end up the same.  T wants me to get rid of my anger and I'm like well, yeah. Intellectually, I know its bad for me and I will feel bad for all the time wasted feeling this way, but if I could make it go away, I would.

Two - I will respond to your post in bit, can't think beyond my current clouded mess right now.