What would you think about this comment?

[longtire]

OR, I'll address your last point first.  I am in such a different place these days that I haven't figured out what it is or how to talk about it.  It is a good place , but maybe it has just been so long that I'm not sure how to handle it right now.  Plus, I have been busy with work heating up and doing things around the house.  No excuse.  I'm glad I moved out when I did though, I've been so busy since.  One of these days soon I'll start posting more again, but probably in a different vein seeing as how I'm literally in a different place now.

As far as teen discipline goes, I think every child is different, but here are somethings that helped with my daughter (16 now):

Consistency.  Consistency.  Consistency.  You have to prove to her that you are more stubborn than she is.

Setup the limits and rules clearly beforehand.  You will probably hear "Well you didn't say I couldn't..." (technically do what I really did understand you wanted me not to do but I wanted to do so I did it anyway.)  Ask her if she has any questions about where the boundaries are when you set them.

Always tell her you love her and are trying to teach her.  Actually, this should probably be at the top of the list. Tell her WHY you are setting a limit in this area and what your concerns or fears are.  Sometimes she may have valid information why that is not a problem.  Most of the time she will think she has valid information why the boundary is not needed but you will not agree.

Stick to your guns and tell her the rules and that you love her over and over and over....  If they haven't already, hormones will kick your daughter's brain out of her hear for a couple of years.  Don't worry, it does eventually come back. In our case, my 12YO daughter just could NOT understand why we had a problem with her hanging out with a couple of 15 YO boys with a friend of hers and trying to hide it from us.  No matter how many times we explained, she didn't understand and thought we were being so unfair.  She did finally realize when she was about 15 that it was actually not OK for 15YO to be hanging around with 12 year olds and that was so uncool.

Keep what works and change what doesn't.  Mainly, just keep talking with her and let her know that you aren't just out to keep her from having fun, but that you want her to be safe while she has fun until she learns (from you) how to keep herself safe.

I'm not sure if any of this helps.  You know your D better than anyone else, so I say trust your judgement.  Just remember that over the next few years she will start to become more independent.  The real trick then is to separate when to hold them back for safety and when it is just you being nervous and learning to sit with your own fear while you let her go somewhere new.

Sigh...  I still have a lot of work to do to learn how to post short posts.

[Anonymous]

Hi OR:

Good to see all the good stuff you are feeling and writing to us!  Your life is so much better now and I'm so happy for you and proud of you!!

You are doing great job!

One thing I'm wondering:

Have you asked your daughter to show you the letters she's getting from dad?  I mean.....it's ok to ask, right?

Also:  do you see her response after reading them?  Does she seem upset?  Confused?  Otherwise emotional?

You can be honest and tell her you're really curious about what her dad is writing to her and you would like to read the letters, if she is ok with it.
As long as you let her know it's ok if she doesn't feel comfortable with that, that she doesn't have to share what's in them.
Also, if you have noticed say....she seems...upset after reading....then you could mention that you noticed this and are concerned/care about her and would like to see if you could help by discussing the upsetting parts.

Just a thought.

As to teenage "punishments".  I like to think of them as consequences.  It's sometimes tricky but I try to make the consequence fit the action.

Have you heard of natural consequences?  This is example....where the child refuses to bring an umbrella, when it's pouring rain and you want them to take it but they refuse.  Rather than keep voicing your want....you let the natural consequence of getting soaking wet....be.  It's tough to do sometimes....hard to watch them face the natural consequence of some of their actions....but I think it teaches them better than almost anything else.

Ofcourse......there are some things that are too dangerous to let the natural consequence occur (say.....they decide they're going out at 11 pm by themself, to just "hang out" with their friends...at 12 years old).  In that case, you have to be prepared to be a dictator and firmly say:  "No".  Sometimes, substituting something fun.....offering to do something they enjoy with them, instead of what they want.......will be accepted.

I'm sure others will have some good ideas too.

Take care OR!  Still praying for you and C!

GFN

[mum]

hey, OR. one of the best books I ever read on parenting teenagers is:
"Get Out of My Life!...but First Will you Drive me and Cheryl to the Mall?"
by a Dr. Wolf.  He is funny (obviously) but drives home a lot of research and philosophy about teenagers home with his style.  
I also aspire to the natural consequences style of parenting, but I reserve the right to change my style at any time!!!
I use "Love and Logic" in my classroom and those authors (name escapes me) have some great parenting books as well.

So here' my classroom "rules" as an example:(thanks to Love and Logic...although it's probably not exactly what they say)
"I will treat you with respect so that you know how to treat me.
Feel free to do anything you want in my classroom as long as it doesn't cause a problem for yourself or anyone else.
If you cause a problem, I will ask you to fix it.
If you can't fix it, or choose not to, I will do something.
What I do, depends on the special circumstances and the special people involved."

I swear, after 22 years of teaching and many classroom rules posters, this is the most honest and straighforward of all.
And it applies in the home as well.
It leaves the children empowered, but not feeling so unstructured as to feel unsafe.  I will still be there to help them when they can't figure things out.  But for the most part, a simple, "your talking when I present this information is making it hard for me to teach and others to learn.  Please take care of the problem".  I don't have many "discipline"  problems in my classroom.
Nor do I with my kids (although.....more so, as you would guess).
My own kids push me.  
Generally, I my teenage boy will ignore and ignore (and grumble when they finally do what I ask) and my teenage girl will argue and argue and argue until Ihave forgotten my point in the first place.
Sometimes I remember this, sometimes I forget (and they help me remember!!!).  I believe it's pretty typical behavoir, actually.  Reading books helps me to feel this "normalcy" and not worry too much.

[OR]

MuM, Longtire and GFN,

I will reread all the wonderful thoughts to help me with my D.

I found a clinic specializing in N's and other emotional problems like Manic or Bi- polar.

Next Saturday at 9am  I'm bringing my H's medical evaluation with me.
I will have them review the report to help my D and I understand what is the best way to move forward with the  divorce.

I was given a lawyer's name who deals with all of the above and child custody too. This is a lawyer from this clinic but now has his own practice.
The receptionist said to call him he may give some free advise.

I was told my assigned T has a focus with children and they have many other T's to help me to deal with the many struggles regarding the physical and mental problems with my H.


Tonight my D and her friend have a babbysitting job for the Aunt/Uncle.
This will be a Friday nite thing for them to make some money on the side.

Well she left all her letters from her Dad on the floor by her bed so I read them.  He is telling her we have to be in CA on the 8th for custody.
I told her we were not going to CA and able to call by phone.
She was worried she would miss the first day of school.

He said some other things but nothing worth talking about here.

Today I mentioned I made this appointment to disscuss the medical report from a specialist how we need  guidance from a 3rd party.

This Clinic is on the radio , I have listen to them and heard them last night talkin about Bi Polar and medications that can help.

It's the Paul Meyers clinic. They have offices all over the country the main office where Im going  is here in  Tx 30 min away.

The Receptionist asked me what kind of abnormal findings were mentioned in the report. I didn't have the report  with me but when I told her a self-absorbed N, she said he may not see he has a problem.

She agreed we should come in so they can help with the understanding and guidance with child custody. Paul Meyers has a book out called
 "Crazy Makers". available at Barnes and Nobel.
 I was so gald she told me he knows alot about N's and wrote a book on the subject.

Im feeling less stressed about him and the e-mail he just sent me.
He's letting me know his lawyer has a report comming from TX that was kinda funny, wanted to know if I filed a life insurrance policy on him.

When I moved here to TX my Medical had to be setup with another carrier
I simply transferred over what I already had. It's only accidental cheep stuff.  I will let him wonder.
 
He is also telling me that his brother and I  are trying to Murder  him because we know about all his medcical problems.
the Blood clot has moved to his brain causing a stroke and we have caused this stress, it's all our fault. BLA BLA.

Now this must be true because I have taken out a life insurrance policy on him trying to kill him. WOW I wonder if Dr Myer will use us as a case study for the Crazy Makers II.


Thanks for reading................OR

[mum as guest]

OR: I am happy for you.  Things are opening up....moving along.....
picking up speed...straight for the life you wanted.  It is encouraging to hear your story.  I get a little overwhelmed sometimes and forget that it is very possible to win in life.  After being "beaten" for so long, I sometimes forget "you can't lose em all".  And once again, OR, you are my hero.
Bless you...sending you more and more and more momentum toward your happiness that you so rightly deserve!!!

[OR]

Received this email today, this is a new one were now talking Murder.
I have replaced the names.
He tells me his lawyer had a funny report about life insurance come up. I would guess when I moved here to TX, My  company transfered my DATA from CA over to the TX carrier. He knows about it but has forgotten, its a cheep policy to cover incase you get hurt at work the whole family is on it for 3 dollars a month.

Right or wrong I view the actions of the two of you as attempted murder using D The only way you guys can hurt me
BIL, medical knowledge & your ability to be cruel.

 feel like a man who has someone holding a life insurance policy on them & someone is trying to collect.
So with BIL medical knowledge his domineering personality combines with a hatred of me.
I am in fear for my life
I am not threatning I am afraid for my life
BIL being a DR knows the truth & any judge will agree

 

I don't write often to him. I write only  received e-mail.

This time I told him he needs to get emotional help and if he wanted to get help I would send him a name of a clinic but beyond that to calm down no one is trying to hurt him and to understand our D is going no where with him having his many emotional problems

He reminds me how his MS is affecting him, I used this to show how without some peace of mind about his condition I would not move on my position.

Today my D went to the mall with her friend, she had fun and followed all the given rules. Yeah! Were here now having girl time with her friend watching movies and eating pizza.


Have a great Fathers Day ...........OR

[OR]

I just got some very sad news, my nephew commited suicide on Fathers day. My BIL has two children from his first marriage. His oldest son was 38 or so, on drugs.
He was on his way here to Dallas, when he got lost some how comming from LA. He called about 5 days ago telling his dad he was in Illinois.
My BIL said he sounded parinod, they found his body washed up in the river with his car nearby.

My D is very sad, she called her Dad, he just emailed me a nasty note,
telling me to get out of TX leave his family alone. His nephew died because of a bad marriage, and I would also kill him if I didn't give him back his family.
He was upset that his brother would call me about the news. He telles me my D wants to be with him now and he his telling his lawyer.

I don't want to upset my D about what her dad tells me, I know she is sad and would want her dad in her time of pain.
I'm feeling sad too, I was there when my nephew was 12 and his parents divorced. He became wealthy with the conception of YAHOO.
His mother is a physcologist and father a Medical Pathologist.
He had non stop money to spend on his habit.
He was in pain, I wish somehow he could have gotten some help.

His 5 yr marriage had just broke up. His ex-wife called yesterday to tell of the news. I had just e-mailed my BIL asking about his son, he called me to tell me the bad news.

Talk later .................OR

[Anonymous]

Dear OR:

I've been so glad to hear how things were going so well for you and now I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your nephew, especially the tragic circumstances.  That is so awful to picture and so sad to think about.
And your dopey soon to be ex trying to shovel his shame on you makes it all worse, I bet.

(((((OR))))).

Keep plugging along OR.  Hopefully the new T will have some good suggestions, especially for your D.

Don't accept your H's nasty gifts!  He's now threatening you with suicide. If he does that, it will be his choice and you have no bearing on it.  He could choose to seek help for himself and work on himself.  He chooses to blame you for his losses.

You're doing a great job of taking care of your D and you!  Keep going OR!  

GEN

[Anonymous]

GEN

Ya know how sometimes you have a bad hair day?

Well....I'm having a bad hairy finger day (type-extravaganza!)!!

That was me.

GFN

[OR]

GFN, Im so sad about all of this. Im already fighting off depression about my Divorce, and now my H is insulting me about the death of his nephew.

I can't believe him, or yes I can, but it boils my blood. I sent him a response back that I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE HIM HAPPY,
I don't have to move out of texas because his brother lives here.

He is making blame that an unhappy marriage made his nephew walk in the water and drown. That his wife made him do this. How I was doing the same to him.

I told him if he had not been so selfish he could have been a bigger part of his life and given him guidance on something he could relate to, a bad marriage.

I read his web site to his buds and he makes a remark how he wished he had been a better uncle.

He is telling me horrible things , It's too much for me to even believe.

I want to  cry, how uncaring he is. We are all upset I best not reply back to him.

[mum as guest]

OR: I am sorry about your nephew. What a blow for your family.

Your crazy soon to be EX is just that, a real nutjob.
It has helped me not respond to my ex when my blood is boiling, as you said.  And believe me, it boils plenty often.  

Because you are most likely using his crazy, emotional computer rantings in a potential court case, I urge you to NOT respond emotionally on email. ALL email will be used in a case, not just from one side. If you have a lawyer, send everything through him or her.  Ask yourself if you could possibly LET IT GO, as in NO response needed, legally (or ask your attorney) and if the answer is: hmmm, this doesn't really deserve a response....or it's not a question, etc...than let it go....and buy a punching bag!!!
If you want to add something else, make sure you sound emotionally  neutral if you can.  It is really hard for me, because he deliberately insists on my responses after a while and they have to do with my children (if it were just me, I could care less....but you know that feeling!)
 I write a lot of responses, but don't send the first draft, as it is usually very reactive.  And then what I do send goes through my lawyer.

He is once again, trying to dump his pain onto you. Don't take it, let it slide right by.  Hang in there, OR!! You are doing great.

[OR]

Thanks Mum, Im numb by it all. I did reply back to my H ,said He was way out of line. that's it.

I know my BIL has a big heart made out of flesh. I understand my H is off the deep end with a cold hard heart.

I just can't believe when people are in sorrow how can someone be so full of hate.

Im tired and didn't sleep much, will write more later.
Thanks Mum, ...........  OR

[Brigid]

OR,
So sorry that you are having to deal with this now after working so hard to get to a good place.  Your soon-to-be ex is really pushing your buttons now, but you need to be strong and smart and not react or respond.  Keep your eye on the big prize of being free of him and don't compromise your position.

I'm very sorry about your nephew.  Children of very happy intact families commit suicide, too.  Generally it is due to very deep depression that would have been there regardless of their family situation.  He was a grown man with many problems, but that doesn't make it any less painful.  Do not let this distract you.  It has nothing to do with you or your situation.  Try to deal with the grief apart from your own situation.  Easier said than done, I'm sure, but don't think for one minute that anything he is saying makes any sense.

I continue to hold you and your daughter in my prayers.

Blessings,

Brigid

[mudpuppy]

Hi OR,

Don't let your ex get you down by piling on to your nephews tragedy.

My brother has accused me of spitting on my fathers grave (he didn't quite explain how I did this) and being responsible for my mother's heart disease and even preemptively accused me of killing her if I didn't stop fighting for a fair share of my property and just accept his lopsided offer.

Your husband is just latching onto something that he knows effects you and is trying to use it to his advantage.
My advice is don't even respond to the ape. Sounds like he is either calculatingly sadistic and cold blooded or headed to an institution shortly.

mud

[Anonymous]

Hi OR

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you until now.  I'll pass on and adlib to the advice given me, by other board members, which really, applies to any of us who have to have dealings with these.........insects.

We have to try to think of them as insects.

Tiny, little, nothings, really, that bite and make little spots on us itchy, but who's bite is generally ignorable.

That's what he's doing.  He's trying to make you itch!  He's trying to make you think he's some big injured bird when really, he's just a lousy, irritating insect!

Ignor his stupid words, OR.  They mean nothing.  They're just meant to cause an itch.  There's no real value or truth to them.

And see if you can try, as I'm trying to do too, and probably others are trying to or will at some point try....to mentally squash him, or at least, ignor his buzzing!!!

So..........don't even read his silly emails while you are grieving the loss of your nephew.  They can be saved and read later, when you're feeling stronger.

((((((((((((((OR)))))))))))))))))

So sorry for your loss.  You are not responsible for other people's actions, OR.  You didn't cause anyone to do anything.  They choose what to do and justify their behaviour to themselves.   Like your insect H is doing.

GFN