breaches....of conduct; shame; guilt in context of narcissism

[CeeMee]

Thanks Sela,  I don't mind answering the question.  No I have not been diagnosed other than taking a test on-line that measures your NP and A.  I came up high N and P with some suppression.  If I understood the results correctly, it means I am boderline personality disorder NP.

Cosmic actually suggested that I not rely to heavily on that model. 

So after reading a lot of the threads today, I was convinced I am a Narc!!  I told my husband and he agreed.  I read the definition I got off the web and he said, "yep that's you."  So no medical diagnosis yet but based on the definition and what those closest to me know of me, I am.

I remember reading that sometimes Bipolar, which I am diagnosed with, is misdiagnosed as N.  So I googled that and got a wonderful article.  It spelled out the differences between N and Bipolar and I am feeling somewhat sure that I am probably not  N but share many of the characteristics when in the manic mode.   One reference in the article that got my attention states,"Ideas of reference and magical thinking are common and, in this sense, the bipolar is closer to the schizotypal than to the N."  And there was that Schizo word again!

What I am wondering now is what is the best course of action.  I am on medication and I am medication compliant, but I still deal with these issues and concerns.  I'd like to return to therapy but I am not sure what's the best type of therapy for Bipolar/possible N/possible Schizo types like me?  The last therapist I saw thought I didn't need any more sessions.  I agreed with her but on some level still felt I wasn't cured. 

My neediness and lack of interpersonal relationships are the biggest indicators that something is very wrong with me.

[d'smom]

ceemee & all =

before leaving this topic behind,  at least in my case, i want to explain the difficulty i was having in that particular thread didnt have anything to do with the poster being schizophrenic or schizotypal...........    (which i actually guessed and wondered if he might be)......  or having any sort of possible disorder or situation.......  i spent several years participating actively on alt.support.schizophrenia.....  ive been diagnosed in the past as schizotypal myself - but they later decided that it was really ptsd.  

either way,  im familiar with all of those conditions and know a lot of people who have them and still communicate.......  thats why i did try to communicate in this case, thinking that might be an issue.

i just had the feeling (just personal opinion now, and feeling, im willing to be wrong, thats alright) the answer coming back to me was not the result of anything like that but more wilful intent to miscommunicate. that is why i personally gave up in that particular case.  it has nothing to do with the style or anything else, but i personally felt there was wilful dodging of communication. im very willing to be wrong and i wish him the very best if he is here for honest reasons.

i just wanted to clear that up before leaving this behind. the problem i personally was having was not with his style in general but with the way he responded to me in particular.  ive spent a lot of time talking with people who are schizophrenic and schizotypal and also having mpd and a lot of 'different' ways of being and seeing. that wasnt my issue.

also ceemee i am bipolar also, along with ptsd, i think that is why they felt i might be schizotypal.......  you also say "I'd like to return to therapy but I am not sure what's the best type of therapy for Bipolar/possible N/possible Schizo types like me? "

i just want to say i have pretty much exactly the same dx exact im not N.....  its good you are taking your medicine and just try to keep getting all the therapy that you can, i say.  theres always more to learn even if you are 'stable'.  dont be afraid of the 'schizo' word, as i understand it, bipolar is a mood disorder, schizo things are in the realm of thoughts and beliefs.  thats all.  you dont sound very narcissistic to me. you sound introspective.

sorry if the incorrect impression was given by anything i did. ive seen too many trolls on the internet, and they do target populations like this, so my patience may seem low.

sorry again

[vunil]

Well, I think that we had a reaction that is sort of the one that would be expected under the circumstances.  Now we have more information and understand our reaction better.   It is all a good case study, I think, in how schizotypal behavior affects people, but maybe not much more than that.  The reason I suggested deleting the thread is that someone coming late to it would have no clue what was happening, and now that it sort of has an "ending" maybe that should be that.  I hate that CeeMee now thinks we are monitoring posts for the slightest deviation from some strict norm!

CeeMee, I have never known anyone who actually had NPD to actively try to figure out (1) if they were communicating effectively, and/or (2) if they have NPD or something else.  Borderline tendencies, yes, usually send the person looking for answers.  N just doesn't usually work that way, and I have known MANY people with N tendencies and about a half dozen people with NPD (in my nonprofessional opinion).  Just the few posts I have read from you show empathy, sensitivity, curiousity about your inner workings, and desire to change if you need to.  All of that stuff is so far away from N that it seems unlikely that is going on with you.  The one time a severely N person I know was told, by a clinician he knew socially, that he seemed to have NPD (she was mad at him and was, I admit, behaving unprofessionally) he later related the story to me as a brag and told me she would probably write a book about him.      Then he laughed.  He wasn't remotely worried that ANYTHING about him would be negative-- clearly if he had it, it was a mark of extreme superiority.

It bothers me that your husband is so quick to say that you are, but then I have no idea that history.

Why not start a new thread?  This thread probably needs to go, anyway   And it would be nice to start fresh.

[amethyst]

Ceemee,

My brother in law is bipolar. He is an absolute sweetie pie, fun to be with, tender, sensitive, just a wonderful person. I love him dearly. A couple years ago he had some major problems with his meds (too much Depakote) and went into a psychotic state where he looked like someone in a pretty full-blown schizophrenic episode. He left the town where he lives and came to our town on the bus, ending up in the airport. He was trying to fly to Australia with about 20 bucks in his pocket and no credit cards...couldn't understand why he couldn't get a ticket. Finally left the airport in discouragement. Police picked him up as he was wandering confusedly along the highway. They realized that he was having some kind of psychotic episode (thank God) so they took him to hospital and called us. Poor guy hadn't washed in days, was hallucinating and was almost totally disoriented when we went to see him. He did know us and was apologizing for being "crazy"in one sentence and in the next he'd be wondering why he couldn't get to Australia with the IV in his arm. My dear sister in law had no idea where he was and my b-i-l couldn't remember his own phone number, so we called her. She was totally freaked out with worry. She talked to the hospital and made arrangements to come the next day to get him back home. My b-i-l bawled like a baby because we took his clothes home to wash so he'd have something clean to wear the next day. He kept saying how kind we were...and how he didn't deserve it in one breath, and then go on about whether we were all going to Australia with him too and how splendid it would be. Anyway, he got home, got the meds adjusted, and is now stable.

I have seen a couple folks in full blown mania, too...and that can look like a totally over the top narcissistic state. (I used to be a medical assistant and I have seen practically every psychiatric condition there is, including Munchausens, over the course of many years.) I guess the point I'm trying to make is that bi-polar disorder can run the gamut and mimic all kinds of other problems. Doesn't mean you are N or schizotypal or anything else.

I also don't think you are an N for the very same reasons that everyone else has mentioned. Ns think they are just fine. Insight and self-examination are not part of their repertoire. To say they are well-defended is an understatement. When somebody starts worrying about whether they are an N, I'd say it is a darn good clue that they are not.

[Stormchild]

The style of his prose is different, but I couldn't pick up anything hostile, arrogant or insensitive in the posts I did read (and most of them I passed on by choice)

Hi CeeMee

The problem is, though, that if you haven't read all of the posts, you won't know whether or not there was hostile or insensitive language in the ones you skipped ...

There is prior history here, and there were hostile exchanges a couple of months back.  On other occasions, phrasing and intent have seemed N in various respects. Again, much of this is from the earlier Cosmic Joe incarnation and posts under other guest names around that time, but if you look at all of the recent posts you will see some things that perplex you, at least, when you don't know the person's condition.

Schizotypal PD does include elements of hostility -- probably much of that is reactive, since people will react with frustration and anger when they think they are being mocked or toyed with, and the person with SPD probably gets pretty tired of that response from them, winding up frustrated and angry themselves, and so the cycle continues. It's up to us to break it.

I finally lost it last night, and put up something I'm really not proud of, which I was almost immediately sorry about, and took down again, right after Dr. G. explained what was going on. But I do want new folks to know that the group response here has not been merely an attempt to force someone unusual to conform because we don't care for free verse or discursive prose styles. There have been comments which can be understood totally differently now that we have the context and know that a PD other than NPD is operating.

It is possible for even full-blown schizophrenia to remit. It isn't necessarily a permanent condition. We might be able to do a fair amount of good, now that we get it.

[Sela]

Hiya CeeMee:

I am feeling somewhat sure that I am probably not  N but share many of the characteristics when in the manic mode.

I'm glad to hear you say this because I don't think you have NDP either, in my humble, unprofessional opinion.   

People who have this disorder do not give a rats hoot about self-examination.  They're too perfect!

  Sela

[Portia]

Hiya Sela, good to see you back and hope you had a great hol

Just want to second what you've said to CeeMee. I agree, without reservation.

CeeMee you don't sound at all unhealthily N to me, not a bit. Not a tad, not a snippet, not a hair's flake of dandruff, not a flea's poo bit! haha sorry.  High spirited.  :Dand some more

Can I say please, all, without being shaming or exclusive or inclusive or anything other than:

Gnostic/Cosmic/Joe (have you chosen yet?): thank you for being you; thank you for saying things that make me think (even if what i think, is not what you might imagine I think - -- and that's not an easy phrase for me to write). I do value differences because from differences come new thoughts, creations.

Nature loves variety! Nature loves a digression. Society abhors ab-normality. I feel that luckily here we know so much about ab-normality (and what cruelty normalty can disguise, supress, impose) that we can tolerate and be curious about the differences.

[Plucky]

I had a good friend who was schizophrenic.  When in an episode she would sound a lot like gnostic.   She would sound sometimes insulting, or crude, or whatever, but I knew it was the illness talking.

Gnostic refers to him/herself as a chimp.  That sounds like someone who is close to being human but not quite.  Someone who is aspiring, but not getting there.   

Plucky

[Portia]

Hiya Gnostic

Now I am confused because there is an email address (for Gnu?) I've just noticed pages back here and I don't know whether that it actually YOU or not??????

Because someone else could have posted that post (it's entirely possible).

Unless you register and become a member (and get access to the underground PM - Private Message -system........), it's possible for others to impersonate you and as such, I'm not risking ( :what risk?) sending an email to an unknown poster (as if we are anything but!!).

Ha. I just talked myself in a circle. Darn. New idea :

Gnostic, if you do the Member thing, it will make me happy, and others here too I bet. We like consistency; it's how many of us are hard-wired. How about it? please?

[gnostic]

thanks portia for pm info

cant one tell right off it one has registered or not
right when lookin at any name used here to post...
i was guessin u probably noted i was not registered
..but my updated guess was that u did not know
or think that if i would register....
gasp join ..... what with all the flak
... ...

another gasp:)

people can pull off and fake that they are me...
.. wouldnt that risk blowing their mind .....
coz they might actually begin to see some of my deep points better:)

[gnostic]

several points to the recent posts here..

man o man ...
didnt i say a tad schizotypal maybe
but mainly idiosyncratic which u c
are not nessarily the same thing
...tho some not used to individuality that is not
not overly conditioned to accept much of society's hidden agendas
and sees much possible deadening in such agenda's
...might think of idiosyncratic as essentially schizotypal
and might not realize how much they push to shift
idiosyncratic into full blown schizotypal

in part the use of different names is as a help
to tell what types of response it is to the thread..


as a suggestion i might take on as my mark
an X as the first letter of any name i use..
or there might be another way in the forum to indicate
what the response in the thread is to in a more specific manner...
or hmmm i could use X if it is what some might see
as my evil schizoptypal twin ..lacking all sense of good social decorum
in their book.
and xy for if it is the good twin or whatever
who where even they might find fun and redeeming value in what i have to say

and the other point maybe another post using some of teh above suggested system

[vunil]

Gnostic!  Yay!  I understood both of your posts!  Not that your goal is to have me understand.  I am yay-ing for my own sake.

I guess you don't want to register?  If you do register, then folks can send you private messages and you can respond (or not).

Of course you don't need to put an X in front of your name.  Can't you just always pick the same name, even as a guest?

Thanks for sticking with us.

We don't care what label attaches to you;  we just want to communicate with you.  If you want.

[vunil]

Oh, just realized you want to use different names for different sort of posts.  We are in no way smart enough to "get" that, unless you're really clear about which name is posting what kind of post.  And even then I'm not sure we would understand.  It's a great idea but you may have to get simpler with us-- we are all dealing with lots of "stuff!"

Maybe we could start a new thread, afresh, and we could all forget about the bad feelings in this thread (while still remembering everything that we learned)?  I would like that a lot.  Gnostic, would you like that?  It has a good symbolic power to it.

[XGNU2VUNIL]

Oh, just realized you want to use different names for different sort of posts.  We are in no way smart enough to "get" that, unless you're really clear about which name is posting what kind of post.  And even then I'm not sure we would understand.  It's a great idea but you may have to get simpler with us-- we are all dealing with lots of "stuff!"

Maybe we could start a new thread, afresh, and we could all forget about the bad feelings in this thread (while still remembering everything that we learned)?  I would like that a lot.  Gnostic, would you like that?  It has a good symbolic power to it.

i dont know maybe but what about luke17:3
... if your brother sins against u, rebuke him
and when he repents forgive him...
..i wouldnt be quilty of forgiving before
sufficient repentance has happened would i..
r u sure ?
of course that only applied to men ..brothers..
hmmm ... or maybe as i elsewhere suggest..
men can be symbolic of conscious sins of a certain type...
thus even a woman could sin that way..

hmmm
maybe another thread with a kind of reference back to this thread
in the name of the topic even....
and maybe this thread hi redubbed..
 THE UGLY IDIOSYNCRATIC DUCKLING ..
EVENTUALLY SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES
WHAT U SUGGEST SOUNDS GOOD TO ME...

[zgnostic]

SOMEWAY I HAD GOTTEN CONFUSED WHICH TREAD I WAS RESPONDING TO
AND HAD PUT THIS IN THE WRONG THREAD..
SO HERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT IT IN THE RIGHT THREAD...

Gnostic!  Yay!  I understood both of your posts!  Not that your goal is to have me understand.  I am yay-ing for my own sake.

I guess you don't want to register?  If you do register, then folks can send you private messages and you can respond (or not).

Of course you don't need to put an X in front of your name.  Can't you just always pick the same name, even as a guest?

Thanks for sticking with us.

We don't care what label attaches to you;  we just want to communicate with you.  If you want.

Quote from: vunil on Today at 02:21:18 PM
Gnostic!  Yay!  I understood both of your posts!  Not that your goal is to have me understand.  I am yay-ing for my own sake.

I guess you don't want to register?  If you do register, then folks can send you private messages and you can respond (or not).

Of course you don't need to put an X in front of your name.  Can't you just always pick the same name, even as a guest?

Thanks for sticking with us.

We don't care what label attaches to you;  we just want to communicate with you.  If you want.


hmmm i b trying to recall some things i have read of your earlier posts...
such detail recall is not my forte:(

but if u were the one who wanted me to note the positive comments u made
in my regard...
so maybe it be noted that i have

hmmm someone not u i think..liked to repeat
do i want help...
i leave that for others for not if they have a mind to
to comment on the kind of ploys and negative suggestive aspects
that might spin out from such a manner of suggestion...
mind u i do really think better insight to such ...
to quote martha
IS A GOOD THING

GASP AND HOW SOME JUMPED ON TO THE DEGREE OF SCHIZOPTYPAL
I PROBABLY AM ......
SHOULD I LOOK UP IDIOSYNCRATIC AND POST IT HERE
IF I HAVE NOT ALL READY...
MY GUIDE SAYS YES ..TONGUE IN CHEEK EMOTICON...
. a characteristic, habit, mannerism, or the like, that is peculiar to an individual.
2. the physical constitution peculiar to an individual.
3. a peculiarity of the physical or the mental constitution, esp. susceptibility toward drugs, food, etc. Cf. allergy (def. 1). Also,idiocrasy

A KIND OF SIDE NOTE..
IN ENNEAGRAM TYPOLOGY THE MOST SENSTIVE TO INFO OVERLOAD
DUE TO BEING THE ONE EQUABLE TEMPERAMENT OF ALL 9
IS TYPE 9
MEANS THAT IT CAN PICK UP MORE INTENSELY ON THE ISSUES OF
ALL THE OTHER TYPES... AND THUS MORE LIKELY TO HAVE
INSIGHTS INTO ALL THE TYPES...
SO TAKE THAT ANY OF YOU INEQUABLE TYPES
1 2  3  4  5 6 7  OR 8

man o man i had typed up something more
and hit some keys ... and windows openin closin on puter
and poof what i had said.... gone
were it a sign to rewrite it or ...
anyways what it were
were about that in shifting details into
my conceptual realm signifiers....
oops is that pure schizotypal or some idiosyncratic
...that to me u had applied some good semantic
signs of consistency of thought
and consistency of thought tho is perhaps only fully attained
when it leads to its proper thing
consistency of application and deed...
and which lead to being one with the whole
as an eternal indivdidual spiritual being
of soul, mind and will....
which is the same as being one with the creator
and seeing the potential of eventual fellowship
with many realized equal co-creators..
now despite what some may say that is not necessarily schizotypal or
schizophrenice.. but could be in many social circles
considered a might idiosyncratic