Author Topic: My journey out  (Read 10243 times)

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2009, 12:15:20 PM »
I am still struggling with Friday night's dinner.  My struggle is not about the events but about the lack of empathy, the invisibility, the set-up to rejection.  I went to the restaurant in good faith with this other stuff simmering in the background, needling me.  It was the old, old stuff, subconscious at best.  I looked throughout the restaurant and saw noone so I went to my car to get my cell phone and call.  Everyone was running late.  I had an option to go back in and request a table but all of the old stuff bubbled forward and felt like a thousand needles prickling my soul.  It was too much.  I turned the ignition and headed home.  Too late to reverse that flood of feeling. I had to retreat.  The damage was already done.  The damage of being rejected. The "here she goes again" attitude rather than "she clearly is having a hard time. I wish we had been more sensitive to what she is going through."

My behavior was juvenile - precisely because LG rose to the forefront.  That same LG that I have been repressing.  She won't be repressed anymore.  She has something to say and I have to listen now.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2009, 01:14:34 PM »
I have been invited to lunch.  LG is not happy.  She is pouting.  I am writing here because nowhere else can I let LG be herself.  LG's hurt is huge and even she is reacting to or stuck in emotional reaction that comes from her younger self, whom I will call BG.  BG needed care but her mother just hated for BG to be needy and father simply pulled down an iron curtain in response to need.  I hate being 2 but I don't mind caring for BG nor LG.  I actually think I might be good at it.  I see the tremendous healing aspects of this approach.  I hurt and so does LG and BG.  I have been pushing down and pushing down their hurt because it gets me rejected and belittled.  It all makes so much sense.  It is time for me to allow their hurt to come to the surface and to be loved and cared for, EVEN IF they have an infantile or juvenile tantrum.

Ami

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2009, 06:19:38 PM »
I had an insight, GS, that I think will really help. Let me know.
I can see how I have been gaslighted. I never could see it before. It is so subtle.
My M, F and H ALL gaslight me so *I* will think *I* am crazy.
My friend Maria saw it but I could not.
I really thought she was wrong.
I am flabbergasted that I am so worthless to all of them that they do not care one bit for my emotional well being.
My point  is that I think the problem with our trusting and respecting the needs of LG and BG is b/c we can't really see how we were (and are) gaslighted AND we gaslight ourselves ALL the time. Throw away what does not fit, GS.      Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

sKePTiKal

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2009, 10:14:30 AM »
Well... funny you mention physical wounds vs emotional ones, GS. I just had an idea. Been working with creating some meaning for myself in the concept: Repair of the Self... and realized that the last couple of years have been an "emotional convalescence" for me.

It's possible to have that convalescence in the midst of ordinary life. But I so craved the open-ended, unstructured time without other obligations to dive right into taking that convalescence to the next step: rehab. You also have that opportunity for a few weeks, to devote yourself to your own emotional convalescence. Think of it as spiritual retreat!  :D You'll gain from it what you are able to gain from it, at the moment... and the effects may surface later in positive, unexpected ways.

LG DOES need massive amounts of plain old support, comforting, and understanding - the building blocks of validation - if she's anything like Twiggy was. I sort of summed it all up under the heading of needing reassurance; for so many things... that I wasn't crazy, wasn't unreasonable, and that my anger was natural (among other things). And yes, the process of you being there for her means revisiting those original emotions - yet again. But this time is different. It truly DOES help to ask for - and see how easy it is to receive - that validation from others for LG, too.

You're no longer in the discovery phase; you know the emotions now. You know how the emotions came to be. Now, you're in the process of relating to LG... creating a working relationship for convalesence. You need to trust each other and you need to establish who's doing the parenting in this new relationship. As with all parent-child relationships, sometimes we have to ask things of the child that they don't want to do. This was a delicate stage for me/Twiggy. I had to be very, very patient. I had to explain the "why" behind what I was asking of her - over & over & over. I had to assure her that I still cared about her very much, even when we disagreed. It's the process of establishing trust, I guess - trusting myself.

But the fact is, I couldn't let Twiggy make decisions for me. Not until both she and our relationship "matured" over time. We've had to compromise... I've had to back off being impatient with her on the truly difficult bits... I've had to indulge her in simple wants - and the more complex, over-arching one that she asked for so long ago: to be like she was "before". I've had to act for Twiggy like the parent I needed, but didn't have: creating healthy habits, setting boundaries on behavior, asking her to comply with decisions I've made that are in her best interest... even when she tells me vigorously: "I don't want to". And I make SURE that I reward her for her cooperation and progress in healing. These are usually little things; it really doesn't take much to make me happy.

All that came later, though. I spent some months simply holding and rocking Twiggy. Telling her over and over, that yes, I understood and it would all be OK; it would all be all right. And like a child... she quieted down long enough for me to "think" more than I "felt" about the whole situation: I was able to process all of T's emotions as the adult me. And then I went back to work with T, encouraging her and helping her to process them, too. That is one of the ways T was able to "grow up" some. Other things were letting her pursue some of the things she gave up in order to survive. And those weren't necessarily emotional things - some were quite specific and concrete. (I am STILL looking for "ruby red slippers" in my size for her; but she's given up wanting a pony and moved on to other things.)

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It is time for me to allow their hurt to come to the surface and to be loved and cared for, EVEN IF they have an infantile or juvenile tantrum.

I'd say ESPECIALLY if there's a tantrum. There is usually a reason for it - and it's not always what appears on the surface, or what the first impression is. In any case: if we care about a child, we care about the child regardless of their emotions and allow them to express those emotions (with some modifications necessary, sometimes). We teach them ways to prevent the situation that made them angry (processing) and how to do things differently (than they are now) after they are angry. We teach them to apologize when they are wrong... and to expect that apology, when they've been wronged - and what to do when the apology isn't there; isn't seen to be important. In other words: how to be angry without following all the rutted pathways of the old "loop".

It was so important for Twiggy to know that I wasn't going to punish her - by making her feel "bad" (blame/shame) - when she got angry. Together, we worked through those situations - usually a present moment that triggered an original wound - and then we looked at scale, perspective, relative importance of the present moment (compared to original ouchy) and tried to find alternatives to simply giving up... and then being angry out of all proportion to the situation. Working on this gave Twiggy agency: the ability to DO something FINALLY... and help me help her, fix herself.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2009, 02:56:14 PM »
LG is coming through.  Differentiating between N parents and LG.  Things starting to happen.  Been using I/M (intention/manifestation) visualization.  Shifts happening.  Cleaned, cleaned, cleaned.  Getting invitations for dinner and coffee and lunch.  Phone ringing - for first time in EIGHT YEARS!!!!!

Feeling great hope.  Excitement is bubbling and propelling forward.  paralysis lifting if only for a respite.

Feels good.  Now I have so much to do.  Been stuck for soooooo long.

sKePTiKal

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2009, 03:29:25 PM »
HURRAY!

SPLENDID!

GOOD WORK!

I'm so happy for you, sweetie! Go enjoy!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2009, 02:24:50 PM »
I am so angry.  LG is showing me some things that make me so angry.

Part of what makes me angry is the times I tried to explain to people what happened and they turned it around to blame me or put the responsibility for my parent's behavior on me.  It happens over and over and over.  I know I am not alone.

This repeated experience has an amazing hush effect on me.  It has a profound power to push my pain and frustration into repression.  I know I am doing it to myself but I also know the power is real.  I am working on this one at the same time I am working on money issues that have their massive roots in the N parent experience.

I have noticed a commonality - wealthy N parents love to use money to control.
That manipulation is .....

Ami

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2009, 03:25:33 PM »
Dear GS
 You are not trusting yourself, which you know. I do this MOST of the time. I am so tired and frustrated. I understand how you feel and I am sorry .      Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2009, 05:28:41 PM »
LG is so angry at those people who continue to tell me thinking my father is mean makes him mean.  NO.  LG and I think he is mean because he behaves mean.  LG doesn't want anyone to think THEY know when they have not lived it.  I am tired of people expecting me to deal with this issue as an adult.  I can't - not yet.  I am still LG and BG when it comes to this issue and LG and BG need guardian angels who will listen to them, affirm their experiences and confirm, affirm that the N father and N mother treated their BG and LG in a dispicable damaging way.

I think it is difficult for LG and me to deal with the issues until we both feel as though we have a voice about the way we have been/are treated by N parents and FOO.

Of course I not talking about the angels here at VESMB.  It is precisely because those of you here will listen that I can even find the strength to share without fear of recrimination.  That is helpful beyond description.  I know I can come here and reveal my pains that others dismiss and slough off.  It helps to be allowed and supported even to voice my childs voice - because parts of me are stuck in that LG's hurt.  Sharing, revealing, unburdening allows it all to lift that repressed hurt and anger - a bit at a time.

It is a funny process - unearthing the resentment and hurt and anger, lifting the repression even a tad actually leads to an explosion in the degree of hurt and anger and resentment.  But I know it is necessary.  It is the repressed stuff - not new and I am SO tempted to repress it again.  It feels horrible and so helpless.  That helplessness IS the wound.  It feels wretched to lift the repression. I wish it were not the way out.

Thank you for letting me share this.  I really must.  It is a gift beyond preportion to reveal my pain without being told to change my attitude.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2009, 05:39:35 PM »
Ami - tell me what you mean that I am not trusting myself.  You may be right but I don't see it.

What I think you are seeing is actually that I am writing sometimes from LG's perspective and sometime from my adult perspective without differentiating. 

I think that LG and BG needed someone to help them see that N ps were wrong and their behavior horrendously destructive. Grown me sees that but LG and BG needs that mamma angel to tell them and to hold them and soothe them and give them the strength and courage and backing to choose to abandon the false promises the N ps heldout to keep me captive in N family.  Momma angel must help me to see that going it on my own as a young teen will actually be better than sacrificing the core of my soul to be a dutiful daughter and live according to the values that most of our society hold.  It was not the case that being a dutiful, obedient, respectful daughter would be its own reward - it was a death sentence.  It was not the case that leaving that hell hole that looked enviable from the outside, would be a road to destruction and ruin.  It would have been a road out and psychologically it still is the road out.  It is the only choice for LG.

Having this new friendship - really two - is what I believe is allowing the change that I experienced yesterday.  Today I am not moving well but that is ok, I will soon have another moving, motivated day and each one will build on the other.  Having people who want to be with me, share a meal with me, introduce me to their friends is unbelievable.  It makes me human again.  It changes everything.

Ami

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2009, 09:22:49 PM »
I mean that we lose an essential connection to our feelings and thoughts when we have N parents. We will do anything ,even die ,to avoid seeing how they did not value us.
 I think that your struggle,as mine is, is in still believing,down deep, that they may be right and we may be wrong and bad after all.  I heard this from you somewhere and was reacting to it. If I  am wrong,compost .It is true for me,unfortunately.         Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2009, 10:22:58 PM »
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I mean that we lose an essential connection to our feelings and thoughts when we have N parents. We will do anything ,even die ,to avoid seeing how they did not value us.

Yeah, yeah - that is definitely what LG slipped into.  That is the fork in the road.  I want to go back in time and take the other road.  I chose "family" with all the self-annihilation that required.  I thought it was the moral imperitive.  They said it was.  Society says it is.  The bible says it is - Honor thy father and mother that it may go well with you. (I still can't come to terms with this one.)

But the life giving road for LG, for me is to ditch family (with sorrow and grieving) and to take the road to self-determination and self-sufficiency.  That is the only life giving choice.  Would that I had taken it as a child but I could not see it.  But I see it now and it is NOT too late.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2009, 11:17:23 PM »
I have a dialogue going on  on another forum.  They don't understand anything about N parents.  I started a thread about needing money and thinking about borrowing from my mean N father.  I have gotten back some good responses.  But there is one person who basically says that it is my attitude about my father that keeps me from receiving from him and that if I saw him as giving and generous person then he would give to me.

She wrote this implying that "me" is my father.
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On the other hand, if you were to view me with compassion (not pity) and see me as someone who was really brilliant at building internal and external resources, and you were to come to me with gratitude and confidence and ask me for some help in building internal or external resources, I would be delighted to share myself with you. I might even be open to your suggestion about a business arrangement, if you were clever enough to think about and communicate to me how you think it might benefit ME, and not only yourself.
  as though seeing my father as something that he is not would magically make him so.  Needless to say this pricked my Voiceless button.  "Hello - you are not L-I-S-T-E-N-I-N-G to me."  Consequently this person evokes from me some of the same responses that my father does.  Which has a value for me in this process but was certainly not the one I was looking for.

She goes on to write:
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And one really easy thing to change is your attitudes and beliefs -- it's an easy, effective way to transform who another person is for you, and thereby change your whole way of being with that person. And vice-versa! When you change who you're being with a person, you can transform who that person is for you.

And if you'd like to generate courage, abundance, and to receive resources from your dad, my point is that it would make sense to be those things for your dad -- be a source for him of courage, abundance, and resources. Be what you want to see. It looks like it boils down to: if you want him to believe in you, try believing in him.

"Easy" - maybe effective but in what world is it "easy".  There is some value in her point - that changing my attitude would be valuable - but not in the way she thinks.  Changing my attitude so that I am released from him and from the outcome of asking for his help would be the IT. 

I do get her point about being generous, et. al. for him if I want those things from him.  I hold that philosophy.  It is the essence of the Prayer Attributed to St. Francis that I have long believed.  But she misses the point.  I am not looking for courage from him nor for him to believe in me.  And I argue that something in this argument is flawed because I believe in him for 30 years - strongly - It did NOT yeild a reciprocal response.

Why am I posting this here?  Because THIS is the aspect that I am working through on a parallel track with some of LGs issues.  It is how "society" or "others" respond to my points about my experience with my father.   Oh it is not about him - it is about YOU.  This is a HUGE issue for me.

Another person even wrote that he is only NPD or OCD if I think he is - but if I don't see him as these things then he is not, therefore his NPD and OCD behavior is only because I call it that.  HuH????  I think his behavior preceded my recognition of NPD by oh 20 ro 30 years.  This is the stuff that really gets me.  Makes me MAD.



Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2009, 11:28:21 PM »
Look what someone else gave me -

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Many parents give everything to help their children, though they have far less than he does. I wish you the best in dealing with that loss and pain.

He/she got it.  Boy did I need that.  That's what I am talking about.  Just to get someone else to acknowledge that what a normal parent does is to give their everything - heart, soul and being - to help their children.  Now those words are a gift.

Believe it or not that same person also wrote this at first
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I'm sorry your parents aren't generous.

But, if they were to loan you money - would you be able to pay it back?

Is there anything you've done to earn the money? Is there anything you can offer them in exchange?

If not, then the money isn't yours, and never will be, whether you manifest, visualize, intend, etc. Money comes from work. Find a way to get by that doesn't include relying on people who are unreliable, then outgrow the need.

What a difference!  No my parents don't OWE me any money - they do OWE me love and dedication and honor.  THEY chose to give me life - I didn't.  They owe me compassion and support.  That is what I believe humans who give birth owe their offspring.

Gaining Strength

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Re: My journey out
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:29 PM »
Whew - I feel so much better.  Like I made some kind of progress.  Who knows.  Thanks for letting me get this out.