My journey out

[sKePTiKal]

No, GS - some people simply won't get it about your parents; they are not accepting the fact of emotional abuse - for whatever reason. In their world, sometimes children misunderstand the intentions of their parents... it simply does not compute for those people that a parent could be neglectful, mean, abusive, belitting... and create the kind of situation that you must now deal with...

in ours, there's no mistaking what it really going on. I have found, though - that there are more people than I would've expected who DO understand this. But there is usually an established relationship, before that's revealed.

For LG: just because people want to blame you instead of your parents, doesn't mean they're RIGHT. They weren't there; they don't know. You don't have to let them stick blame or responsibility to you - because they're simply don't understand. They don't HAVE to believe you, for something to be TRUE.

You wrote:

What a difference!  No my parents don't OWE me any money - they do OWE me love and dedication and honor.  THEY chose to give me life - I didn't.  They owe me compassion and support.  That is what I believe humans who give birth owe their offspring.

I wonder... and only you can find out... if perhaps LG saw money as a symbol for that love, dedication and honor? If, in your parent's world, money was so all-important... that it was on the same level as less materialistic values? And that perhaps, the parents EXPRESSED those emotional/ethical values through money?

Also - people with "difficulties", who are parents - simply CAN'T provide what you believe normal parents give freely. It sounds like you're presenting an I.O.U. to your parents - for a commodity that they simply don't have... rather, LG is. You are right... she has to "run away" from that FOO situation... and with the help of Momma Angel, learn to fend for herself.

It appears that there is great progress on that front - even though the "old stuff" leaves a residual "slime" that will eventually fade away... if you keep adding the new, good stuff that will push it out, neutralize it, compost it into organically rich, nutritious soil to grow something beautiful. It's great to see you blossoming like this, GS....

Really! I mean it! It makes me smile and feel happy for you.

[Gaining Strength]

I wonder... and only you can find out... if perhaps LG saw money as a symbol for that love, dedication and honor? If, in your parent's world, money was so all-important... that it was on the same level as less materialistic values? And that perhaps, the parents EXPRESSED those emotional/ethical values through money?

Also - people with "difficulties", who are parents - simply CAN'T provide what you believe normal parents give freely. It sounds like you're presenting an I.O.U. to your parents - for a commodity that they simply don't have... rather, LG is. You are right... she has to "run away" from that FOO situation... and with the help of Momma Angel, learn to fend for herself.

Yes, yes, yes and YES.
Yes - money is the currency - (lol)
Yes - I am presenting and I.O.U. - I'm lying in the dessert sand beside the oasis begging them to give me a drink.  Unwilling to acknowledge that I can get the drink for myself.

As always - thank you for the gift of your time and your words.  I drink them in.

[sKePTiKal]

You're welcome! I am still doing my happy dance for you... your progress since your "break" started, is AMAZING. I'm imagining you with multi-colored threads fraying and dancing around you, like a rainbow halo... and now you can begin to walk away from the old ropes, chains, binding you.

Did you find that unbroken stretches of time - just time devoted to yourself - was useful? I wondered, because it's been great for me. It's not always a "picnic", that said. Some days, I deal with the "down & dirty" and I don't always make FORWARD progress. I've also been pushing through a persistent layer of "crap" and yesterday found the brick wall behind it. My idea of "rehab" met with typical teen-Twiggy resistance, yesterday. Know why now... but the question is: what to do about it?

Ah well, I'll think on that today and start my own thread if something useful comes up.

I hope and LG can think of an appropriate reward that you can both enjoy. You both deserve it!

[Gaining Strength]

Yes PR, the time to myself has been a god-send.  There is a play off going on within and having responsibility to noone else for a stretch helps me deal with it.

I am going to try to articulate what I mean.  It would be a tremendous help.

When I select an issue to work on or it selects me there is an immense resistance that builds up.  The resistance is part of all issues with me as well plus it ties into having had no support or backing through out my life.  Not from my parents nor my syblings nor my husband and ultimately not from my friends.  To have no where to go in my memory to tap into that feeling of undieing support and encouragement has meant that I had to find all of the energy and determination on my own but it also means that I am very susceptible to the first winds of discouragement. 

I ended up in a life in which I sat on the accelerator even though I was stuck in a muddy ditch.  The harder I tried the deeper I became stuck and all those closest laughed and reveled in my misfortune.  working to get the car out might result in falling in mud and more laughter and humiliation.

I got caught at a young age of believing, "if only I get this fixed then I will be included."  but that actually was a hampster wheel of its own.

Now I see that the way out is by providing for myself.  The cleaning and ordering is not so someone else will admire me or include me but so that I can enjoy my own environment. It is for me.  But the entire mindset of doing something merely for myself is truly so foreign - I have been so mired in doing things to "prove" to someone, anyone that I deserved this and than and anything.

It's me who felt I didn't, don't deserve.  That is such a sad realization.  But it is only possible as I bring these repressed voices to the surface.  Along with the voices comes the pain that was experienced so early on.  And that is the rub because each time I make progress in adjusting these very old thoughts/feelings I am immediately pummelled by another from another direction and I am smacked down to the ground again, dazed, unaware of what happened.  And then I begin to feel hopeless and undeserving all over again.

So the healing process actually exposes me to more knock downs.  It is killing me.  But now that I know to expect it I might be able to rebound.  For the almost  years I have been here I have been hoping to reach a clearing where life was wide open and I could run through it.  That may happen but first I have many more booby traps to fall into.  I actually don't think that will be such a problem anymore.

I now realize that it is a minefield.  Until now I thought each stumble was taking me right back to the beginning - an indication that I had made no progress.  Today I see that each minefield I get through is like another level of strengthening and that falling again is not going backwards just more work ahead.  I can handle more work ahead when I know I have made progress.  That is where I am today.

Quite frankly I do need to be around other humans who understand.  I could not do this without those of you here who understand and who let me know you do.  It gives me the courage to move forward.  You help me develop a perspective to actually see that I AM moving forward. 

Even though I have not been stalled just the fact that I believed that I was actually slowed my progress.  I think I have reached a point in which I understand something very different today.  It is as though I have reached a critical point in understanding.  Rather than being worn down by the struggle I am finding that I am actually being strengthened and do believe this strengthening will continue.  It actually feeds itself.

[Gaining Strength]

As soon as I saved the above I realized something else. 

I think I have been a little afraid of getting "better" because I would lose the help I have here.  I have this very vague flash of a memory "ok now you don't need my help anymore" followed by abandonment.

tie that in with IOU

[Hopalong]

The cleaning and ordering is not so someone else will admire me or include me but so that I can enjoy my own environment.

Wow, GS.
Thank you for this.

You have no idea.

I did not realize that this was also part of why I find it difficult.
You are literally giving yourself permission to EXIST, as a person who deserves to enjoy her own environment!

I would like to borrow this thought for myself.

And I wouldn't dream of abandoning someone who's found her way out of this type of paralysis!
It would be something to be inspired and awed by.

xo
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Thank YOU  Hops.  So glad something here is of value to you.
The thought is yours.
And it feels so good to read that you would not abandon someone finding her way out.

For 3 days in a row I have felt stronger and stronger.  It is good at any time for me but especially so because the last three days have also been very difficult, filled with a series of things that at another time would have each knocked me low.

I'm tired but I will keep up the same practices that have been helping.  It has been a "slowly but surely" battle.  Step by microscopic step is amassing some gently, noticeable changes.  I am getting stronger.

[Gaining Strength]

The wave is up and down.  I am stunned by the book PR llinks to in her new thread. 

I am thinking about a thread on another forum which is focused on Personal Empowerment.  In one thread about getting financial help from family a subdialogue has popped up in which the participants write about adults seeking money from family as being childlike, unworthy, irresponsible and on and on.  One of these same people responded to one poster who declined her advice by saying that rich people receive and poor people lose - meaning that the person who declined her advice was poor because she didn't take her [implied - valuable] advice.[Read - you disagree with me and you lose.]

Naturally - that whole sub-dialogue caught me like a web.  I am suspecting that that person had a difficult family life and by her own strength got beyond it and she had no tolerance for others who do not come through in a similar method.  I on the other hand am really needing "community" response and help and encouragement.  I think her boot-strapping - my way or bust philosophy strikes me where my wounds are.

[Gaining Strength]

I am exhausted and extremely lonely.  I have something I must do as a stop gap measure to staunch the bleeding on the financial front.  Everywhere I turn I am being stampeded by bill collectors and about to have utilities turned off.  At the same time I am close to getting my businesses going but I needed this week and my little boy came home sick from camp a week early.

It is all taking an extreme toll on me.  But I recognize that the only way out is to persevere.  I need some help.  Someone to listen.  Someone to care.  Just a little encouragement goes a long way.

[sKePTiKal]

Life doesn't always turn out the way we plan it, GS... I'm sorry your precious time is being cut short. I know how important it is; and how rare. Single parenthood doesn't offer much "me" time. But, it's not an impassable roadblock - just a bump on the road. You can take this adjustment to your plans and keep on going!

The amount of major, major progress you have already made provides the momentum, for you to sail right over this bump... even though it's a disappointment to lose your time, you probably missed your little boy. And if he sleeps while sick, you'll still have some extra time. The utilities... perhaps you can negotiate something. Buy yourself some time, if nothing else, to get your business up and running. Surely, with a child in the house, there is either someone in the community who can help or the company itself, will make an exception.... work out something affordable. It doesn't hurt to ask.

We have a local church group who helps people with utility bills, in addition to providing low, low cost food and clothing. It doesn't hurt to ask. In this economy - there are many, many people who need financial help - and it's surprising who they are. It's no fault of their own, either... it doesn't hurt to ask. My own kids are only hanging on by their fingernails...

Perhaps you've got a local small business agency, who could assist with you with a short-term loan... if your business is home-based, I believe these kinds of loans are available from stimulus money. Look for micro-loans.

I don't know that any of these ideas will provide an immediate solution, but I think if you begin to put some focus on it - some energy - something will turn up... a lead, a possibility... a solution. A deep breath, face the reality head-on, and a plan of action... you already know how to do that! I know you can... this isn't a disaster... just an obstacle, a delay, an unexpected fork in the path.

You're not alone! We're here... and no matter how it turns out, we'll still BE here for you.

[Hopalong]

GS, what an awful feeling...fending off utilities shutoff. I can imagine how horrible that is.

I have a thought, perhaps useless, but fwiw:

I've been watching with deep sympathy and no few flashes of recognition the show on TLC about OCD called "Obession" (it follows "Intervention", another one I find well done, that's about various addictions).

When "Obession" dealt with a sweet man who was a hoarder (he greatly improved with therapy and it was moving to see)...I found myself wondering if in some way the "paralysis" or INaction around household order and functioning is perhaps emotionally very close to compulsive ACTION.

Like, I can put as much energy into NOT doing as others do into compulsive DOING. (Handwashing, collecting, etc.).

I just realized when I was lying in my VERY messy bedroom watching this little man try to express how much emotion he felt about his impassable piles of clutter...well, my emotion is fear (of the consequences), frustration (why don't I GET in gear?), all that...and this man's is love (of his mother's memory, which triggered collecting), fear (of letting go of her, and of his future eviction--and even illness--if he doesn't get well).

It just "felt" familiar, what he was going through, although I am not a hoarder (no urges to purchase stuff). And it's not so extreme in my case.

WHAT BOTH HIS AND MY SITUATIONS HAVE AT THEIR BASE IS ANXIETY. And a response to the anxiety in my case (maybe yours too?) is compulsive inaction or "freezing" (in addition to fight or flight, some animals freeze when they feel endangered). In his case, it's a compulsive action, that seems to come from a similar root.

All this is a longwinded way to get to a question for you:

Have you thought about finding a therapist who is experienced with OCD, and trying to approach the paralysis stuff from that angle?

I'm really liking that my own therapist has experience with ADD. Even though I don't fully qualify, I know he has knowledge about some behavioral steps I can take to get myself more focused. Way below that, though, I think another thing I have to address is anxiety -- the pure fear of the consequences of my emotional state.

More rambling, bear with me...thinking about you a lot this week!

You often mention your rage. (No judgment!) Just that one of the recurring whirling prevailing feelings (along with pain) is recurring ANGER.

I heard once that beneath anger is always hurt and/or fear. Fear = anxiety. Anxiety is the key emotion in OCD. I feel a lot of anxiety.

I wonder if an OCD therapist (who specifically helps people, behaviorally, face their fears...with increasing exposures) might help you peel away the anger not just to the PAIN beneath it, but address the ANXIETY.

I am thinking they trade off, and in my life I have felt shattering pain of the sort you often describe. But once that moves through, if my life isn't working, I think what's often going on is more fear and anxiety.

Pain doesn't immobilize me. Pain plus huge FEAR does.

So I'm starting to think addressing my fears is what may wind up both reducing the pain and "unlocking" the frozen behavior.

I doubt all that's particularly insightful, but it produced a blast of verbiage anyway...thanks for wading through it.

And, GS, I want to mention again how enormously helpful the "borrowed thought" was to me. I told my new counselor about your insight the other day, and it truly helped me unlock a bit. The thought: I don't care for my space because in my mother's attitude toward me over the years, I gradually internalized a sense that I didn't deserve to enjoy my own environment.

When I think about that thought, I DO reject it, instinctively. What a horrible thing to say! Or course I do! And all of a sudden I want to water the plants and cook myself something nourishing, as opposed to just collapsing in the evenings.

I am so glad you pointed it out to me. Thanks.

love,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

With an apology - i find that I am dumping those thoughts and feelings that bubble up to the top.  It is like a relief valve.  I am pushing forward and I am making my way toward building an important transition out of stuckedness and out of financial scarcity.  The more I push and the more I progress the more the stuff bubbles up and the anger along with it.  It is not a fun process but the outcome will be a great relief.


PR - I did miss him and I am glad to be with him.  The time issue and some other issues of having him home are pushing all of my old buttons and I am not sure which ones are getting pushed.  I do hope to identify what old wound is getting poked.

I do not like being angry nor having tantrums.

I have plans to go speak to my father in an hour.  Desparate times require desparate measures.  It will be interesting if I can adapt a positive attitude regardless of the outcome.

Hops - I have watched both of those shows and marvelled over them.  For a long time I have talked to my therapist about Intervention because no matter what those who are addicted have done they have a group of people who love them.  It is such a marvel to me.  Each and every episode I am amazed at the love and care demonstrated - amazed and profoundly envious.

Obessession is a fascinating show. Your thoughts about the parallels are not lost on me.  I definitely see the parallels.  With out question I think there is a link.  It helps me as I push through all of this personal disorder.

as far as finding a therapist whith an experise in OCD - I am too worn out to do the search.  I would love to have a hands on therapist like those in Obsessed but I find myself in such a double-bind as it is. I need help in order to function sufficiently well to earn an income and I need an income in order to pay for a therapist.  Really no way out except to push harder and faster.

I always knew that when I got strong enough to clean up the mess of years of neglect that it would be overwhelming.  Well that's where I am now.  But I just keep pushing forward.  It will pay off and I will be thankful.  And I continue to be thankful for this place to let out my frustration and struggles. - thank you alll - GS

[sKePTiKal]

Oh HOPS... great insight! Yes, pain + fear = collapse, freezing, paralysis, flight/fight....

Like my not being able to "get started"...

And I think GS said it: "years of neglect"..... when a negative state becomes the "familiar" (read: comfort zone) then the pain (self-anger) and fear (change - any change can be threatening)... we cling to the old, negative familiar for dear life, completely irrationally... KNOWING we're self-defeating and hating it, which provides more kindling to fuel our particular inner message:

And mine is: I don't matter.


GS - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!! Good luck on your "mission".

[Gaining Strength]

I need some help here.  I am like a yo-yo in extreme bouncing from big highs to deep lows.  
I asked for and received the loan.  It was a boost in more than one way.  Not only can I pay some of my debts and have a small amount to help get my business going but the big thing is that it is encouraging that my plan and my work to get myself out of this place I am in and into functioning thriving, fiscally sound life is looking possible and probable.  

But turn around and I am low again and on edge and easily angered, feeling overwhelmed and hopeless.  Just a bundle of emotions, in the midst of which it is very difficult to identify the source.  Is it an imbalance?  Is it the experience of coming back through the tunnel of my past experiences?  Is it something new?  I assume it is coming back through my lifeexperiences - on the way out of hell - but I don't really know.  I do know that it is lonely and extrememly emotional. I feel so shut out, so unwanted, so alone.  I cannot say this enough.  People should not feel so left out - so rejected - so on the edge - one move and its over the cliff - hanging by a thread.

I want to share this following dialogue from another forum because it upset me so.  I do understand why it was upsetting but now quite to the extent it did.  This person - Angela - is really pushing my buttons.  It is her judgementalism and her lack of compassion, empathy.  Does it push my buttons because she reminds me of my family or because she sounds like Everyman to me.  Does it matter?  Clearly I have work to do about it.  What do I need to do?  Often I know.  This time I am flummoxed and tired.  Why does her jugementalism knock me low and Ryan's thoughtfulness and kindness touches me but that's it.  Why doesn't Ryan's post send me soaring and Angela's just leaving ho-humming?  

Here is the last few posts of a thread I started about wanting to borrow money from my father:

GS - there are times that adult individuals go through difficult times and need a helping hand.

There are countless accounts of experiences of helping people in need in which both sides were transformed. One such account is The Same Kind of Different as Me.

RYAN - The posts that have been going on here are great advice for things to do on your end of things. However, I would like to share 2 more things.

The first is on the same topic of your end of the deal. This is the "cleaning" technique from Joe Vitale's Zero Limits and is about ho'opanopano, as somebody above recommended. Accept your father's state of mind as YOUR responsibility (not your FAULT, but your RESPONSIBILITY). Then just constantly say to yourself, to him, and to God, "I love you, i'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you." And just repeat that over and over. Let it become a life mantra.

Secondly, you may try the Silva Method. With the Silva Method you can learn ways to make certain encounters go a certain way or to influence other people from the alpha state. It used to be called the Silva Mind Influence System for a reason! Do some research.

GS – I  got the loan.

ANGELAThat's for sure. And a wealthy parent handing money over to his poor, indebted adult child -- it's more like putting a band-aid on a geyser, or buying an alcoholic a drink -- it's not doing her much of a favor. Far more valuable would be if the child could learn the inner resources that the parent has to offer -- the inner resources that have that parent generating wealth and abundance.

GS - Angela - you are an extraordinarily judgemental human being. You could not possibly know all that you think you know from 3 or 4 lines that someone here posts.

*****
I'm thinking that Angela is a boot strapper, that she had parents who were not emotionally present but she pulled herself up by her bootstraps and moved on and therefore everyone else should as well.  The fallacy in Angela's last statement, of course, is that wealth and abundance can ONLY come from a person's inner resources.  That is a fallacy that many wealthy have of themselves as well.  It is very individualistic and strikingly lacking in a community outlook in which we lift ourselves up by lifting up others.  So it is not that I disagree with her that makes me so angry.  It is that button being pushed.  I am tired of that particular button being so much more reactive than anything else.  Words of wisdom - please.

[sKePTiKal]

OK... I started to post this when you first mentioned the money issues... but held back, 'coz I wasn't sure what had triggered your feelings about the other posts you mentioned. Now that I read them...

Yeah - Angela's not being too compassionate is she? There is a school of thought that if parents provide financial assistance to adult children, then that opens the floodgate to the adult child becoming dependent, not self-sufficient, and taking advantage of the resources (and generosity/kindness) of the parent. The parent then becomes an "enabler".

I've been on both sides of that point of view. I seldom - twice - asked my parents to help me out, substantially. I am the boot-strapper, for sure. On the other side: I've been enabling my kids. One figured out that it was totally unfair, is working 2 jobs to climb out of her debt and she has a record of what I've provided and has promised to pay me back. I've insisted that she take care of herself first and we'll worry about the payback - someday. I trust her to do so. The other... sigh... will take all she can get - blow it - and is permanently creating more problems for herself. They're both GenX... both have some college courses; no degrees. Very different people.

So maybe Angela's been burnt by someone, like I have with my one daughter. Maybe she's just really rigid in her thinking on this... maybe her parents wouldn't help her. And then: there are people who are excessively jealous and resentful of the wealthy. They assume that wealthy people think badly of, and blame the poor for their circumstances... and I DO see that a lot right now even though many, many kinds of people have lost jobs through no fault of their own. Even my hubby condemns those who took out subprime mortgages, without understanding what their payments would be. He doesn't recognize that there WERE predatory lending practices; he would never sign something without having specifics... and so doesn't understand how someone else would. We "discuss" this a lot - LOL!

SIGH. It's just the way some people are about some things, GS. I'd say, don't take it personally - except she did make it personal. Your reply was reserved, though I hear the anger in it... the hurt. I wouldn't have been that nice, I'm afraid. But - that should be the end of it. She's not an important person in your life - or is she? You seemed to say that she didn't know you very well - so what her opinion of the situation is - and you - shouldn't matter as much as what you think of you.

That said: HIP HIP HOORAYFOR YOU! I KNEW you could do it! I knew you had what it takes, to handle this crisis - and it sounds like it went even better than you had hoped. That's terrificly good news! Don't let someone else's sour grapes - or jealousy - bring you down... put the good that happened in the situation to work making more, new good. Pay no attention to the peanut gallery.

Sending you a PM; I think I found a useful "how-to" manual... it's sketchy, but enough ideas to build your own plan from it.