Mindfulness and codependence thread

[Hopalong]

O
M
G

That brings tears to my eyes, Amber. I can imagine new lightness and wonder or peace on B's face, the shocking sensation of not being gnawed at by an alligator or slow-feasting hyena all day long. He gets to just....be.

I'm soooo happy to hear it. Chronic pain is just a terribly heavy wet smelly blanket that blights lives. To hear he has respite now...that's soooo wonderful! I bet more sides of his personality will slowly reveal now -- discoveries. New colors. Play. How is he reacting?

This would never have happened without your steady, determined advocacy and support for B. Cheers to YOU!

Lighter, and Amber -- thanks for hearing out my highjack. I do feel I'm doing it better. It did feel good. The guy's unwell and I did a determined job of extricating myself. Took quite a few statements to get through to him, but I did. Feel good about it.

Ironically, my neighbor visited yesterday and I'd forgotten that he'd been her professor in another city years ago. She said she wasn't surprised and had never felt at ease around him, even decades back. HUH! Since she's not in my church community I could tell her the saga and she got it. Every nuance. One thing she pointed out was the "professor" part. I'm seeing a side of that more often now, especially since M, that I never saw an iota of in my own father. In some men my age, the ivory tower must've been built with an ego-polishing mechanism that rubbed them so sweetly every time they went up and down a staircase. So that's a profession I'll be more alert about, much as I'd like to meet a well-educated man.

Pretty simple, really. "NO." Means NO. Take notice. The first time they don't/won't "hear" you...decide then and there you'll either do/say something that brings them to full attention (a poetic F-u maybe?) OR just back away. Amazing how to many men, NO means: "Ooooo, what delightful resistance! I LIKE this game!"

Yuckspitblechhhgagbarf. This short piece is WORTH listening to, for the twist at the end. ENJOY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7EzsFqQ-s

big hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Oh..... love and marriage,
 I REMEMBER YOU!!!

Whiny men, accusing me of doing what they're doing WHILE denying it when I call them out.

Controlling requests, beginning with small asks, building to relentless demands for my very sanity and physiacal safety.

And I SEE where allowing that first inch to be taken from me......
is my doing.  I DID that. I don't have to do it anymore. I can keep myself safe.  I know that now.

Idiot compassion had a place in my life.... I think it was the case with my Maternal Grandmother..... my niece does the same thing, I've noticed.  We discuss it and are aware of it.... are dealing with it. Working on it. 

What sweet relief to TRUST I'll remove myself immediately when I'm ignored or disrespected or bullied......
any foolishness can be just that.... foolishness and nothing to do with me.

Ya.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Can you say more about "idiot compassion", Lighter?

I know you ARE compassionate, but also know you're getting at something core.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I guess my definition would be extending compassion beyond reason and safety....bc of some unconscous belief I have around the tabu of being selfish or ungenerous, etc.

[Hopalong]

GOT it. Makes perfect sense.

I think, in the "faith community" context, I figured out how to do it with the Nguy. Just tell him, without yielding, that I still would love as a fellow congregant, but from a distance and across differences. That covenantal bonds sometimes have to be more stretchy and spacious in ordere not to break.

If he ever gets it isn't my concern, it's his.

So we're in the same community and he, imo as a human being who is deluded and lacking insight into how he ticks, he still deserves compassion. Not iditotically, but from a distance and with very firm boundaries that will protect me from his unawareness.

If he were a younger or strong man, I'd even have fear. I did detect a confused mix of attraction and malice in some of the stuff he sent me. But as old and unwell as he is, and not my employer, not my....anything....he really has no power to harm me unless I let him.

I ain't.

Whew, soooo good to unpick all this.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hey, Hops:

I haven't been able to muster a response to your post. 

The idea of so many women sitting in varying degrees of discomfort or distress or fear with men who've displayed that familiar mixture of atraction and malice..... makes me feel a little bit sick.

I'll end it there for now, bc I haven't found the right words yet.

Lighter

[lighter]

I had a really good discussion with my brother yesterday.  That's a really good jumping off point for pulliing in the same direction, together! 

On an even happier note, my harm seems to have healed up completely..... at least I didn't feel any hinks or tweeks while I put it through it's paces.... lifting, pushing and pulling all the tools out of the basementing, large heavy mirrors and art, big light fixtures and I'm just pleased as punch while remaing respectful of all my parts and keeping them healthy.

I opened up all the blinds and decided changing out the front door with a full lite door would help brighten up the space, which is large and has windows on 3 sides.  Also, there's a big window with stained glass that would benefit from removing the stained glass to clear..... lots of light would come in that way.

The front door already has side lites so ther'es that. 

More birds are nesting on the front porch. The 5 baby birds on the light fixture flew away long ago.  Maybe we'll have new babies soon.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

That's a lot of good news, Lighter!
Better connection with your bro. Woo HOO.
Arm working well again (I'm speechless).
Beautiful lighting (natural) for the lake place.
Baby birds. The best.

Thanks for letting me tell the church guy saga here.
I finally caved and told (in confidence) the tale to the
pres., a woman I like and trust a lot. She was perfect.
Understood, expressed regret I'd gone though that kind
of harrassment (I hadn't recognized it as quite that) and
will going forward keep an eye out for his potential to
harm or confuse his group. That felt like a big "release
it in peace" kind of moment for me. Whew.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Aw, Hops.  Telling isn't easy or comfortable... ever, IME, but it's DOING something.

Silence is the place where the harrassment... whatever you want to call it.... thrives, IME.

The pres might not do anything.  Heck, she might actually cover for and enable the guy, but you stood up and did the tough thing.

That's a good place to release it in peace..... I'm glad you can.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Me too.
It had upset me a lot more than I realized.
Another toxic, Nish male in my "safe space."
And I'll miss the sweet people in the group he runs.

But I don't assume the pres. will do anything to enable him.
She's aware and knows what he's partly about, so if he tries
to take on more influence, she'll be prepared to react. That's plenty.
I can't find any fault with her response to me at all, I felt genuinly
supported.

I still feel a few ripples dragging me down but I will let it go
all the way. It just reminds me of a cycle of being myself and
being considered a threat by certain kinds of men near my age.
I hate being targeted with malice or lack of integrity. It's like
wounding a rhino when you prick that old male ego sometimes.

Ugh. Release release release.

hugs and thanks again,
Hops

PS The thing the whole episode reminded me of most was how M. would tell me coldly that I was "resistant." He didn't even grasp what he was revealing by that...that he MUST have the power and the control. Two years! Why did I do that?

[lighter]

M was a master course for you, Hops.

He was more than the problem.  He helped shine a light on your causes and conditions. 

He smacked (fig.) that Hops eating zombie fork out of your hand.  It was magnificent!

I think time with M taught you how to keep yourself safe.

Time with M was more than wasted time, IMO.

Yup yup yup.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

THANKS, Lighter.

That is such a mature perspective and I'll aim for doing better at it.

(Recent situation just was unexpectedly trauma-ish, but I dealt with it fast enough. And fairly well, I think.)

I just imagine, as you did with YG, having FASTER wise reactions to people like him. But I suppose a couple weeks as compared to a couple years is progress! Even though there's frustration in the short term, I think I can focus on what you're talking about.

I did learn.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

If you didn't responsed exactly like you wish you'd responded to the recent situation.... it just takes time to reset default settings and internalize the new ones.   No failure...just more opportunity for practice, IME. 

I look forward to practicing wry responses without hesitation and I DO that with the Cowboy... all the time.  There won't be any misunderstandings, bc NO to whatever it is I won't tolerate... and I say NO whenever it needs saying all
the
time
when we're sharing company.  It's wonderful practice and feels amazing.

Responses that don't invite challenge or questions.... just the best, IME.

I think it helps when we (feeling very Royal today)  aren't buying into whatever the difficult person is suggesting about us.... we're "resisting" or whatever it is.... when we don't buy in or doubt ourselves..... it gets easier and easier, IME.

I have to admit.... it pleases me to picture myself handing you a sharp pen with which to defend yourself, Hops.  However you use it... write out ways to respond in the future.....practice saying them out loud...... or just poke people who enter your emotional or physical safety zones..... just pleases me to picture it; )

For my part, the next time I run into the yelly guy, I'll give him almost nothing and maybe NOTHING, depending on how he looks at me and speaks.

I'm not afraid to say F off.  It's right there, on the tip of my tongue, along with an impolite grunt of displeasure at having to see him or a straight up refusal to acknowledge his presense.... just.....
right there.     

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Yup, bravo.
NO attention is better than negative f-you attention (my opinion only).

I remember reading something about "the narcissist in court" that advises to literally not look at them. No eye contact, just turning your own expression into gray rock.

That kind of blew my mind because when I did it with my brother (never once looked at him directly) in court, I swear that helped me win. He wasn't rational anyway, but I think I sensed he began feeling less confident. And it DID protect me from melting with fear.

I can imagine YG dressing like the Q-Anon rioter, running through the neighborhood seeking attention.

But a better fantasy is YG moving away. Buh-bye.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hops:

If ignoring Yelly Guy isn't working... what do you suggest?


Lighter