I'm replying to myself again... This song just came on the radio. I've always loved this song..for obvious reasons. God, I don't cry a lot-almost never- not even at movies, but I'm sitting in a public cafe writing on this board and listening to this song.. and I am trying hard not to cry.....
Here are the Lyrics:
I'm replying to myself again... This song just came on the radio. I've always loved this song..for obvious reasons. God, I don't cry a lot-almost never- not even at movies, but I'm sitting in a public cafe writing on this board and listening to this song.. and I am trying hard not to cry.....
Here are the Lyrics:
love I get so lost, sometimes
days pass and this emptiness fills my heart
when I want to run away
I drive off in my car
but whichever way I go
I come back to the place you are
all my instincts, they return
and the grand facade, so soon will burn
without a noise, without my pride
I reach out from the inside
in your eyes
the light the heat
in your eyes
I am complete
in your eyes
I see the doorway to a thousand churches
in your eyes
the resolution of all the fruitless searches
in your eyes
I see the light and the heat
in your eyes
oh, I want to be that complete
I want to touch the light
the heat I see in your eyes
love, I don't like to see so much pain
so much wasted and this moment keeps slipping away
I get so tired of working so hard for our survival
I look to the time with you to keep me awake and alive
and all my instincts, they return
and the grand facade, so soon will burn
without a noise, without my pride
I reach out from the inside
in your eyes
the light the heat
in your eyes
I am complete
in your eyes
I see the doorway to a thousand churches
in your eyes
the resolution of all the fruitless searches
in your eyes
I see the light and the heat
in your eyes
oh, I want to be that complete
I want to touch the light,
the heat I see in your eyes
in your eyes in your eyes
in your eyes in your eyes
in your eyes in your eyes
Just writing more of my stuff....
I remember clearly this moment at a baby sitters where I was pinching this little boys legs, there did not seem to be anything going on in my mind when I was doing it, I was unaware of my own motivation. The reason why I'm writing this is because at times I have tried to understand why people get pleasure out of seeing others suffer.
I also remember that when I was very young I would laugh when I heard babies cry, it was this uncontrollable response that I had, I didn't have any thoughts going through my head. I wasn't causing their crying, I wasn't a tyrant kid, but if I was in a room with a baby that was just being fussy I truly would laugh and cover my face probably hiding/sticking my face into the sofa while I was laughing? Thats weird isn't it? I'm not sure if I was laughing out of pleassure I don't think so, I think it was just some sort of emotional release.
I have not grown up to become a mean person, this memory stands out to me as a strange uncommon thing that I did. I think some child development specialists say that kids go through saddistic periods? That it is normal. Nah that doesn't really sound right to me. Maybe narcissistic people are so emotionally immature that they are stuck back in that really young stage where they don't really fully comprehend the suffering that they cause. -In the same way that kids need to learn to be gentle with pet animals, that at first kids don't really get that animals are sentient beings.
I also remember stepping on snails the sound of the crunch and the goop left behind was satisfying, I then noticed as I got older I went out of my way not to step on them and I would shudder a little if I accidentally did. I know this is not very important or significant it's just interesting to me. At what age do people learn compassion or empathy and how....
It sort of doesn't matter, I've learned that even if I some day "get" why people have hurt me and why they even seemed to enjoy it- that just understanding it does not protect me. That having insight is good but that I need a self protection that is greater then insight. I think insight is part of it. The thing is healthy people don't have to earn a PhD in psychiatry in order to protect themselves, they know how to protect themselves without understanding how they know. If asked to explain it, healthy people can't explain how they do what they do-"I don't know I just do it". I had a highschool friend tell me that "I needed to learn to stand up for myself" That was a totally true observation on my friends part. The thing is I had no idea what they were talking about and how to even go about it. A friend can say that "you need to learn how to stand up for yourself" but the friend doesn't actually understand what that process is-it is probably related to those deep internal messages about oneself- seems complicated to me. I think it is possible to get stuck in trying to understand why we were not loved, instead of learning how to feel good.
My mother did not- all out hit me that I can remember, she slapped me a couple times but I was not pummeled like some people are. The thing is, one day I broke a bone while playing by myself, accidentally. I didn't tell my mother and she did not notice. Looking back I know that a normal mother would have seen that something was not right, I wasn't hiding it. She was always occupied with something else. I guess I had learned to keep my pain to myself, maybe even ignore myself. She is really comatose in some ways. Sometimes she seems normal, but when I remember stuff like that.. no, there was something wrong with her. There was a counselor in grade school that use to talk to me, I asked to go to the counselor because my friend told me it was a way to get out of a class I didn't like, I probably did want to talk with someone. I could never really explain why I felt so anxious/upset as a kid. The counselor figured because I wasn't being physically attacked nothing was going on. He didn't seem to understand.
I'm writing, writing, writing..
I wrote something about how maybe Narcissistic/abusive people don't understand the pain they are causing. I think this is false, they do seem to understand the pain they are causing. Ok, I will leave it there. Don't want to write about that anymore. Yuck.
It's hard to accept that people choose to cause pain, seek out to cause pain. That is a real psychologically hard concept for me to accept. A person can sound smart and charming or what ever and then there is a side of them the pain-causing archaic thing in them. I would think that those people would want to lift themselves up and become better, they certainly seem to see themselves through rose colored glasses. How can they live with themselves? I guess it's true some people really don't have a conscious. Some people really are full of garbage and they seek to "throw away" other people. Huh? I guess I'm just realizing how messed up narcissistic people are. Narcissistic people can gain popularity and no one would dare say that there is any thing about the N person that is less then perfect. In fact I think N people get sort of worshipped sometimes. Admiration. That is one of the things that makes it hard to fully realize their abuse. There can be other people around who buy into the N's version of reality. They are living a lie.
And there are lots of lies. And voiceless people sometimes accept the lies. Voiceless people accept that lie that we are bad and wrong. I guess that is internalizing.
Hi, Gabben, nice to meet you.
Yeah, I think it is ok for you to cry, I've heard some say that they go through years of crying.
I had a yoga teacher who really encouraged people to cry, in fact I think she does it on a regular basis to purify herself as you say.
Yep, they say it's healthier to let it out then keep it in. Keep it in and get sick, or let it out and get better.
There is a lot to cry about in the world, our personal problems, the worlds problems...
Actually when I think about it, people who cry are probably healthier then people who don't cry. I went through long times when I did not cry, I was numb, the feelings were there somewhere, just pushed underground, so not really alive. Numb=dead like a zombie.
I think crying is a step towards aliveness.
Sometimes life is too fast or tense to take the time to cry. And then after all that time something really big comes out, a big powerful emotion. I guess emotions can be scary. The intensity of emotions reminds me how bad I want to be fully alive.
I will have to look up the beatitudes, I would like to know what they mean exactly, there are stories behind all those sayings from the bible. I just wish I would be comforted while I'm alive, and laugh while I'm on earth rather then waiting for the after life. I did pray really hard one night and it changed my heart literally but only for a couple of days and then it reverted back to my "normal" squeezed in compressed, contracted, weary little heart.
I'm all written out.. almost.
When I was a kid, I had some illnesses, I think they were worse then they should have been, I think if cared for better I would have been healtheir and sick for less time. I was sick for months it seemed. On medications from doctors that I certainly don't need to take anymore as an adult because I try to take better care of myself.
Some of my relatives said I was making my illness up, that it was all in my head, I felt really bad/frustrated when I heard this, my alcoholic relative said I was pretending to be sick to get attention-yeah right cause little kids like to lay in bed all day for days on end. I even ended up spending the night in the hospital one time. I think this all could have been lessened with good care. I remember being in bed and feeling afraid and alone. What else could I have done? I keep on feeling like I should have had more power but it makes sense to me that I didn't. None of my relatives would allow me to say this but I'm going to write it here.
My mother was neglectful. NEGLECTFUL.
I did not deserve neglect, maybe on some deep level I felt like I did something wrong to deserve the punishment of neglect.
My mother had excuses for why this happened it was usually related to "lack of money", yeah lack of money does make life more difficult but I don't think it is a valid excuse. I think there were simple solutions to my illness would not have cost her any money. I think the medication was more expensive then preventing it in the first place. She didn't bother to learn about my illness, to this day she still doesn't understand it. what sort of person does not learn about their child's illness?
If I was to say to my mother "you never believed in me" she would say, "we didn't have enough money for that".
Narcissistic people can gain popularity and no one would dare say that there is any thing about the N person that is less then perfect. In fact I think N people get sort of worshipped sometimes. Admiration. That is one of the things that makes it hard to fully realize their abuse. There can be other people around who buy into the N's version of reality. They are living a lie.
I remember being sad though, I also remember that at some point I must have stopped socializing normally with other kids. This wasn't always so, I can't confidently say that it is due to voicelessness. I'm not sure what happened, I wasn't diagnosed with anything ever. It seems that I was aftraid of the other kids or I just couldn't hold my own ground, I wasn't boisterous. I couldn't follow their play interactions. I spent a lot of time by myself, it felt normal to me to be by myself. I was good at occupying myself. I probably rarely felt part of a group, I thought that was normal. I always did OK in school academically. I can't really diagnose myself here. It's an observation I was making. Psychologists say play is really important to development. Maybe I was just a sensitive child/soft/overwhelmed? Even slow? I don't know.
If my mother saw what I was writing about her, I think she would laugh. Then she would get mean and then punishing. Then she would throw a tantrum. She would look like a little kid when she did the tantrum.
Reading backwards, it feels like I spent 7 years of involuntary meditation on the injustice of my own childhood abuse. It seems that many of us here are caught in involuntary meditation and don't know how to move ourselves to what might be a more favorable & rewarding type of meditation.
I think the way out is spiritual.
I think the way out is spiritual.
Ami and Helen:
A couple of years ago I wrote a poem I call Rescue...
In the womb rescue was found in the darkness.
In infanthood rescue was found in feeding.
In childhood rescue was found in innocence.
In adolescence rescue was found in fleeing.
In young adulthood rescue was found in wounding.
In womanhood rescue was found in seeking.
In seeking rescue was found in truth.
In truth rescue was found in suffering.
In suffering rescue was found in God.
In God love was rescued.
The characters had these sort of spirit animals that would follow them everywhere. The spirit animals attacked other character's spirit animals. It reminded me of what if feels like to be around a Narcissist. Sometimes it feels so covert, it hurts but they don't even have to do anything to make it hurt, it's just their minds or something that can attack on a different level.
If you have ever had a hard time explaining what covert attack feels like then see this movie.
I have my moments...even in my depression.
I was dancing to cajun-zydeco music in the shower. What is my body doing?
I'm a saxophone dance.
The ostrich dance.
The sea turtle dance.
The smashed spider dance.
The elephant ears dance.
The I'm a man dance. (I most definitely am not a man but you know how they dance.)
I'm an igloo dance.
And the music gos: "Aloogaloo".
While I'm dancing, I apologize to someone outloud. I apologize for dancing. I know there is nobody there and I'm talking to myself but the apology is compulsive.
More later. I'm going to go visit my trees in the park.
I'm smiling, I love my rare moments of being goofy.
If you dance in the shower, remember it's slippery.
to change the subject for just a moment....
If my mother saw what I was writing about her, I think she would laugh. Then she would get mean and then punishing. Then she would throw a tantrum. She would look like a little kid when she did the tantrum.
This I can relate...and much more you wrote but this paints a good picture, when you say laugh you mean that evil sarcastic laugh, correct?
Helen, I throw tantrums...Or feel them in me,but the difference between me and the N mom throwing a tantrum is that they then deny that they threw one. They also do much more damage.
The boogey man is gonna get you!
I'm a fear based person, not in every choice or decision or action but in my mind. I think it has been getting worse.
Ok, I think some of this IS just my innate temperament apart from Narcissists. I also think Nar-exposure has contributed to this.
I can be somewhere at night with a friend or in a park and I am always the most afraid. Some other people behave like they have never seen a bad thing in their whole life. I act like I'm not afraid, I act strong but I am afraid of "bad people".
I'm noticing how the more I write my truth and cry I feel a weakness leaving my body. I still feel back pain and weariness but there is a shift. I don't know maybe the weakness leaving my body is when I remember to take an antidepressant. I've got to pay more attention.
I walked through the park today and I thought about weapons, I thought about how I really should have some super-duper
stun-guns and ninja stars with me. You know those barbarian clubs with spikes on them, I've fantasized about owning one.
I guess I'm afraid of my own shadow.
It makes sense that if one was never protected as a child then there would be a learned feeling of being unsafe.
Feeling unsafe in the world.
All the burden of the world, I think as a kid I internalized a deep burden for every bad thing that happened.
I think in me somewhere I feel personally responsible for and guilty for situations that I had zero control over.
On the other hand, if any one thinks emotional breakdowns are positive let me know.
Are you naturally athletic and easy in your body?
Oh my God, WHEN I WAS A KID I LEARNED THAT NEEDING LOVE WAS DANGEROUS.
Is this really true?
My mother never wanted anything good for me in my life that is the message I grew up with and then she says "It's like you don't want anything better for yourself" to me. That is so infuriating.
I see it more clearly now. Sick. She is flippin Sick.
There has got to be a word that describes this.
She calls me selfish and then she does something to try to take my joy away from me.
If I could be protected then I could heal myself.
When I fence out people, I fence myself in.
A heart of shame, is that what that shrinking feeling is? Like a shrinky-dink zooooooop! It's miniature.
Shut me down, lock it up, barricade it, put it on lock down, impermeable, turn off the light in there so they won't think we are home. Shields up! Play dead!
I need to forgive myself for things that I was not responsible for or did not have control over.
maybe there is something out there somewhere just for me.
I think the message from my NM was independence equals emotional death at her hands and abandonment and shunning from the family
I think the message from my NM was independence equals emotional death at her hands and abandonment and shunning from the family
Ami - I think the message from NM was that your feelings, the natural feelings that one has in any social setting where most are strangers or acquaintances, our instinctual protective reactions, were identified as a part of you and since we identify ourselves with our feelings which we have learned from NM were BAD, we will feel especially BAD and uncomfortable in our own skin when we are in social settings, we are social creatures with an instinct that tells us that we need human connection to survive, as children we do and as adults human warmth and friendship is a wonderful blessing; as a child I could not have survived without the bonding of others, even if that bonding was dysfunctional. As an adult I CAN survive without others, trust me I know, but if I want to LIVE not just survive, then I need others to live completely.
Hi Ami,
You gave a fantastic description of your Sunday: the guests, your feelings, your H.
I have an idea, it's an experiment, hope you try it:
What I heard is that you are constantly tortured by your 'inner dialogue/monologue': The NM tapes telling you you're bad, you don't deserve anything good, etc. Then, you go into a anxious, panicky free fall of self doubt, where you, in your inner dialogue/monologue, question almost everything you think, desire, need, want to do & do. IMO, this is a torturous way to live.
So, here's the experiment: do not listen to your inner dialogue/monologue for 3 days. Just do what you want to do (of course, you have to figure out what you want to do). In other words, promise yourself that for 3 days you will banish your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt, you will NOT listen to the NM tapes, nor your inner dialogue/monologue. You will just live in the moment with a quiet mind & not keep thinking, thinking, thinking.
IMO, I think your biggest problem is that your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt trumps almost everything you do. So, for 3 days, throw away your second guessing of yourself & your self doubt. See how it feels to make a decision & not worry if it's the wrong decision. So, what if the decision is wrong? We, as humans, are allowed to make mistakes.
I think what's valuable about this is that you will excercize a 'muscle' that perhaps you haven't excersized in a long time, which is to live in the moment, free of self doubt, secure in your own skin.
What do you think?
xoxo,
ann
Thank you for sharing Ami.
Two phrases you wrote are "Being Human" and "Being in Fog".
I have felt and thought those things, these two phrases are powerful.
I started feeling like I was not really a human being at my job then my panic attacks started up.
We don't even have to be in the presence of the Nar-person anymore because we built a little Nar-person in our head that comes with us everywhere.
Hi! Ami!
I sent you a personal msg.....
On the subject of losing dignity
I am a mild-mannered person, I swear to god, I feel like nobody will believe anything I proclaim about myself, I know I am. I like to garden and read books while sitting under trees etc. It’s just who I am I’m a peaceful person mostly. I do get pent-up anger, rarely, but it’s there.
So, A few weeks ago I was in church. I saw a woman with a couple of friends, they sat down a few rows in front of me. I didn’t see the person’s face but the hair cut and earrings and shape of the shoulders and even the jacket she was wearing looked exactly like one of my co-workers. I was looking intently at the nape of her neck and trying to glimpse the side of her face. I no longer could concentrate on what the church pastor was saying, the verbal stream of the sermon faded into the background. I could feel my body tense. My mind imagined this scenario of a b*tch fight there in church. How embarrassing that would be! I don’t b*tch fight but these coworkers went too far. These coworkers were friends with the Narcissist coworker who used relational aggression against me at work. It brought out my voicelessness, the voicelessness that I had thought I conquered once and for all when I started that job.
I'm thinking: "How dare she go to church that hypocrite! How dare she go to the same church that I go to, can’t she find her own church? Oh, how can those people live with themselves. Don’t they see how much suffering they inflict, why don’t they see all of the pain they cause. Liar!!! You F’ing Liar!!! You Phony!!!!"
I’m picturing that I’m going to act like a rabid wild animal, if she walks by me and looks at my face with a gloating expression, trying to see my face twist into an expression of pain, then I’m going to pop up out of the Pugh and hurtle myself towards her, bang. And I’m on top of her, pushing her down. I’m ripping her flesh apart in my teeth like a mountain lion. I’m ripping her hair out, slapping her, I’m screaming all sorts of things that don’t make any sense because I’m so angry I’m stupid. I’m jumping up and down on her, trying to break every bone in her body, trying to break her as much as my spirit was broken by her. I might even be roaring. That’s how I feel.
I know these coworkers must be afraid of me on some level, I’ve seen them around town. They think it’s a joke but they also know there is rage built up inside of me. They want to see me blow up, they want to see me lose it. They want to see me lose control and look bad, so that they can validate all the bad things they said about me.
There is another way for me to regain my personal power. There is and I’m gonna find it.
I imagine what that primal fight would look like in church to the other congregants. They would say that she didn’t do anything to me. That it was unprovoked. They would shower sympathy on her for ever after. I would be the crazy one. I would be banned from that church. Nobody in the church would understand why I did it. If any congregants recognized me on the street they would look at me with fear and ostracism in their eyes.
I’m a little repulsed by the idea of hurting someone, I don’t get pleasure from it.
I know for a fact that I don’t have it in me to really hurt someone. I think my co-workers know that too, they know how nice I really am, and that is part of the reason why they choose me to hate, because they counted on me not retaliating. My limbs just don’t function, even if I have that emotion, my body is weak and would not do that. My arms and legs would refuse to cooperate with my emotions. My body would be flaccid but my anger would be raging. I think my coworkers can’t stand my niceness, I think it makes them feel bad about themselves. I am sort of Pollyannaish at work, I do it to cope with the stress of work. I blast goodness around me at work to try and create a safe little bubble that will protect me from sarcasm, speculation, and gossip and everything else.
It turns out that the person sitting in front of me was not the co-worker.
If it had been, I probably only would have gone home and screamed. I might find some object to throw in the garbage.
It’s an all-beliefs are welcome church. I’m not a big follower of god.
I’m unclear about my own religious beliefs, they are a mish-mash.
I think I believe in the Tao, I took an online-“what religion are you” test and I think the result was that I’m a “quaker”. Ok, whatever.
Breaking Bad Habits
This is me rambling on about my “stuff” in an attempt to get my head together. It is really just me still coming to terms with the fact that I would be better off thinking of my mother as “The Narcissist” rather then “Mom with forgivable issues”
I have built up a “Mom” image that I have had throughout my life, it’s an image of niceness, it frustrates the f*ck out of me because it’s illogical. I’m gradually accepting the “Narcissist” as more accurate, it’s cold, hard and accurate. I feel guilty and bad for seeing my mother as a Narcissist. Dam! we children of Nar-parents are guilty and shameful about every single thing! F- the shame and F-the guilt. SHAME and GUILT are social control devices. Since I feel more shame and guilt and sadness then I do other more warm emotions in regards to my family that tells me that it is mostly just an issue of power and control and loss.
I have quit my relatives in stages (I think I said this before), as a last resort for my own wellbeing. The thing is blood is thicker then water and often they want to reconnect even years later after successfully having zero contact. Some of them even seem to try to contact me at the very worst times, maybe they think at those moments I am weak and have let my guard down. Disconnecting from them has been painful but staying connected is even worse. My communications have been nil or few. In my mind I disowned them just to cope, but when I do occasionally have contact with them I can’t treat them as if I’ve disowned them.
The screwed up thing about all of this is that me and my brother have never felt welcome in my mother’s homes, we have mentioned this to each other, the feeling is a palpable feeling of being an intruder or unwanted guest even though we are responding to their invite. I might as well be a door to door sales person trying to sell them something they don’t want. There is a real feeling of “go away”. Yet when I try to go away by finally getting fed up and not contacting my NM and her husband anymore…well she throws a fit, she tells all the relatives about it in a distraught manner. I know this is all a Nar-cycle.
If I didn’t cut her off I would end up finally having to tell her how angry I am at her and then she would tell that to all the relatives and I would look bad. So I either end up looking bad or looking bad with the relatives, not much of a choice, so screw it.
Maybe I need to reclarify my boundaries to myself. I still feel guilt sometimes. I think it is probably better to be angry then guilty. So I can just remember my anger I guess. I’m allowed to have my own life. At this point I no longer owe them anything, I will have to keep telling myself that until I really believe it and it has more strength then my guilt does. My relatives use familial pressure together as a group to maintain control.
It hurts that I really can’t count on them when it matters like a lot of people can count on their families. I have this feeling that my relatives are trying to goad me into doing things that are really against my own best interests, it doesn’t feel right. If I succumb to this I’m not acting of my own volition, essentially my own instincts are ignored if they get their way.
My relatives have made some real messes before that did not involve me and I observed. My relatives can take a situation and turn it into a scenario that snowballs it’s way to hell and misfortune. Curiously not all of them screw-up their own lives. What gives them the right to screw up my life…
There is nothing that gives my relatives the right to screw up my life and I don’t have to feel guilty about that. There, that statement makes me feel strong.
I will just go with the flow, whatever, only contact minimal enough to prevent my NM crisis from escalating but NO MORE. I feel embarrassed about my mother’s crisis.
I feel ashamed by the way my relatives interact with me it is disrespectful and it shows in a subtle way how very little they value me. Gee what a surprise.
Their words (we might care just a little) and their actions (your going down) don’t sync up.
Blah blah blah, ok my next thought is my weaknesses, me looking at my weaknesses….I have some real ones, I may have power to change some but not all. Maybe that is my next writing session.
More of "my stuff"........
I thought I was taking a break from posting.. I guess not...
I just recalled this scenario from my life: When I was in high school I was simultaneously in college. There was a high school class I was bombing and I wanted to drop it. I had to go to this high school administrator guy and request in person from him to grant the dropping of the class. So I was sitting in front of his big wood desk. He would not allow me to drop it, he seemed to think it would be some sort of learning experience for me. He said to me "It's ok to ask for help when you need help". He said it with this warmish kind of facial expression.
I remember this comment clearly. His comment about asking for help was like some sort of cattle prod that pushed through to some part of me. I'm not sure who he thought I was going to get help from. It was as if he was so confident that help was easily attainable. He said it as if all I had to do was open my mouth and squawk: “Help! Help!”
I thought: "Wow, a person asks for help..and...and they get it? Really? That’s amazing!.....Yeah.... Whatever dude.”
I think I almost ended up failing that class, I did not get “help” with it.
Hearing his comment did not give me the key to getting help in life, but it did make me realize that for some people it is a lot easier for them to ask and receive help. That some people maybe expect to receive help. I realized that some people have others under them boosting them up to climb over the fences in life.
Sitting on the opposite side of his desk looking at him through my eyes I felt old, a lot older then him, because I thought I understood something that he did not. I understood my life, and he did not understand my life. My life was inconceivable to him.
My quiet perspective in my own little world. Who is this guy and what world is he from?
A Conundrum: So a part of me has necessarily become self-sufficient, and another part of me probably has "learned helplessness".
I'm digesting what this means to me....Hum...
What does this mean to me? What do I know about myself because of this.
Re: AMI Yeah, too old and too young. That is a good way to put it, I concur.
I can see that lack of intimacy(emotional) would hurt the heart. When s/one says s/thing really sweet to me, my heart squeezes--something really warm, tender and loving.
Have you ever had this? Ami
Ami, I see you as an adult who has her own likes and dislikes. I see that you do not especially derive pleasure from watching golf especially when what you really want to do is converse. I see you as a person who knows exactly what she wants.
I don't see the "Bad" or "the selfish cry baby".
It’s not like I’m dressed up as a bush so that I can blend in with the foliage or anything.
I am peeling my fingers off of the keyboard…
Un-stuck is like being free from old emotional/mental habits... and breathing deeply of fresh, stimulating air... and deciding what to do next.
OK - our posts crossed in the cyber-ether...
It's OK to feel sorry for yourself... for the awful things that happened to you... and for the things you didn't have. It's grieving... a great human loss... and I think you'll find that grief has it's own schedule; it's own agenda; and that finally, at the end of the process you'll have a great sense of peace... and wholeness.
I keep thinking about that picture of the beautiful little girl... do you ever meditate on the picture? Try to see her? Is she trying to tell you something?
Little girl just wants to cry, play, and be hugged.
Hiya, Ami, Phoenix, and Hops,
Thanks much for the warm thoughts, it does help me to understand and stick with it. I probably am skirting or skimming along the surface right now and not diving too deep into myself.
Ami, thanks for sharing your experience with me about your Nar-people trying to get your H to put you in a psych-place. That's interesting. When you said "they want us to be crazy", well on some level I do think that is true. It's really hard to understand and even harder to accept. Like you said it is hard. It is very validating to me to hear your version of a similar event. Hearing it makes me feel less wrong and less "crazy".
Phoenix, thanks for asking me the questions, reminding me to listen to the different parts of me, and reminding me how life has it's own schedule. It's a good reminder for me to be patient with myself.
Hops, thanks for the sweet and loving words/visual image. It's a reminder for me to be gentle to myself. I need to indulge myself with love and tenderness. My little girl needs to be "spoiled" with attention.
Your writing is beautiful. Thank you for sharing , Helen. A great writer brings a person to conclusions they could not access themselves. They show the reader how to see the world more "real".
Bill is a natural writer, too.
I think one of my gifts is appreciating beautiful writing. I could never do it like you or Bill do but I can appreciate it.
Forgive me if I am embarrassing you. Ami
Yes, Helen, you are right --all things must have a balance .I am discovering my gifts and trying to appreciate them. We all are special and have unique qualities to enjoy and give to other. You are right about that. Ami
I am not idealzing you, Helen. I know it feels scary when s/one seems to be idealizing us. My M put me way up high and then put me way down low.
I am just a freak for good writing! Ami
I'm imagining that the Rev. saw me glowering and crossing my arms and zoning out at her speech and I'm imagining that she interprets that to mean I especially need to learn how to say "I'm sorry". Oh Grrrrr. Now this is just what is going on in my mind but there have been real experiences where this sort of thing happens where a person could not be more off in their interpretation of me.
I'm a co-conspirator in a Nar persons low self esteem. I help them feel good about themselves by feeling bad about me.
I never got to say goodbye to her, I think this is a big deal, I never got to express to her how important she was to me.
Dear Helen
When I was younger and healthier ,I had many friends whom I admired for one thing or another .I was a popular person BUT the big part was that *I* loved myself for what *I* was. My admiring them did not take anything away from me b/c I was secure within myself
As I got sicker(NM influenced me more) *I* had to be the "best"(perfect) .If I wasn't, it took AWAY from me.
When I complimented you, I felt silly .However,my heart wanted to tell you what your writing meant to me even if it looked dumb .
I think healing is all about following our hearts and they will lead us to the places that the NM razed to the ground.(This is Alice Miller in a nutshell) Thanks for your input and we can put it to rest if you desire. Ami
(((((Helen)))))
Compliments do bring up things. Maybe they show us our face in some way we don't want to see. Maybe our face to ourselves is so fragmented that we cannot take a compliment and hold ourselves together .
I want to know me, define me and live me so my life is not in anyone's hands. That would be freedom.
I would be willing to be vulnerable for love ,though. Love is a whole different thing.
You inspire me ,Helen.
Oh, another compliment. Here we go again! :shock: Ami
You want to hear a cosmic joke, Helen? All this time I was thinking I was BAD and I was only human, just like every flawed human being out there.
I had so many deep troubles , so many heartaches ,so much destruction for a stupidity? Ami
ugh.... I can totally relate to the wonky stomach... and throwing up... and other excremental means of detoxifying the body. Nose is running like crazy... Going through something like that today. I dunno... maybe it's just the zeitgeist around here lately and what I'm working on myself... but lord, something big is working loose!!
about repressing/suppressing emotions...
for me, it was a defense mechanism - it was my primary means of keeping myself safe from my mom; if I showed my own emotions... it was invariably met with her projecting her own on me... and overcoming "me" with "her"... and blaming/shaming the "me" emotions.
"There is a field out beyond right and wrong, I will meet you there."
Yes.... I like that better.
I think such a field suits Amazons,
buidling bonfires.
::nod::
Mo2
Where does it end? An N man was a boy under the wing of an N mother who was a girl hurt in some horrific way by one or both her parents. My Nmom was sexually abused by her father and her mother preferred her brother. My mom's mom's sister tells me granny was always that way. My mom tells me my granny's dad was dismissive, aloof and cold towards my granny. Why was he that way? What happened to him and his parents, and their parents?
I'm sure you all can trace this same mess back through your tree. Why, why why, and more importantly how to stop it?
[Well, I think the shorter version was made for a bumper sticker.
Hum, Mo2, These Amazons you speak of.. like amazon jungles with snakes and temple ruins.. Or Amazon women?
PS: I feel so sorry for the "little Helen" part of me that did not get to give love, I'm thinking how children naturally want to give love.
Hi Helen,
I have not read all of this thread but all the parts I've had time to digest resonate with me. I always talk about my childhood as a gray featureless terrain without texture. I don't remember much of it, not because it was always painful, but because there were no peak experiences to remember. I spent the better part of my life waiting and hoping for that color to fade in. Childhood was like a movie that played out in front of me but never let me on the set.
Keep writing....
S
QuotePS: I feel so sorry for the "little Helen" part of me that did not get to give love, I'm thinking how children naturally want to give love.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((little Helen)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
It's never too late to start, you know. "Life ain't too late".
Love,
There is another quote that jives with me..ok, hope I don't butcher it.
Martha Beck: "I don't know what the hell is going on, and I'm ok with that".
There is another quote that jives with me..ok, hope I don't butcher it.
Martha Beck: "I don't know what the hell is going on, and I'm ok with that".
I love this quote, Helen. It is the opposite of perfectionism and trying to control , two of my hardest things :? Ami
I love you :lol: Ami
Well,I was so touched by what you said about my being "normal". My NM is a therapist and she always made me feel abnormal. If I had a feeling such as fear. She would yell, "WHY are you so fearful?". She would do this on feelings and needs such as "WHY are you so dependent ,need so much love etc
So, I had to think I was abnormal b/c I could not question HER.
Your comments were loving ! I appreciated that.
Ami
PS I am glad you asked. My friend taught me that it is important to check things out.
Dear Helen
Thank you for your insights. i really value them!I am gonna think about what you said and get back later. Ami
Dear Helen
Thank you for your insights. i really value them!I am gonna think about what you said and get back later. Ami
I don't mind either way if you take my thoughts or leave them. Take what is meaningful and just leave the rest behind...
All right, AMI, talk to you later...
Ya... I've been labelled "moody" too. And you know what, I AM....
I'm affected by the people I'm around - negativity - a lot. ....
I've been meaning to tell you about one of my therapy homework assignments......
Conspicous in it's absence, I'd say.......
Repeat after me: there's nothing wrong with me... just the way I am. Anything I don't do well, I can learn to be better at.
Dear Helen
Thank you for your insights. i really value them!I am gonna think about what you said and get back later. Ami
I don't mind either way if you take my thoughts or leave them. Take what is meaningful and just leave the rest behind...
All right, AMI, talk to you later...
Does it hurt to get a compliment? That was more of a "think about question" than an actual one :P. Ami
Dear Helen
Thank you for your insights. i really value them!I am gonna think about what you said and get back later. Ami
I don't mind either way if you take my thoughts or leave them. Take what is meaningful and just leave the rest behind...
All right, AMI, talk to you later...
Does it hurt to get a compliment? That was more of a "think about question" than an actual one :P. Ami
Huh? Are you trying to compliment me again.
Are you trying to tell me I should learn how to take compliments more graciously?
It's true. I'm not a gracious complement taker. I don't know why. I think it's because I've received fake compliments from Nar-coworkers when in the presence of people they wanted to impress or some crap like that. Well actually now that I write this.. when a person would give me a complement around a Nar-person the Nar person would get angry that I was being complemented. So maybe I deflect the compliment so that I don't get the Nar-person's wrath.. oh f*cken-hell that is dumb. I didn't think of that before.
How exactly does a person acknowledge and gracefully accept a compliment? Sorry Ami, I'm not too good at this.
I love you Ami, but your compliments are driving me crazy....sweetie..
Ok, I'm doing a curtsy and sticking my tongue out.
Ok, I'm reading my above statement that you quoted and it does look cold..... I just don't want to interupt your space/process. Thats all.
Maybe I'm chilly when people give me complements.
Complements can be attacks ya know? I don't feel that you are attacking me though. It's just in the past or something....
Ok, I think it's that thing where we put ourselves down before the Nar-person can.. You know?
I didn't want to attract positive attention at my job for the past few years because then my Nar-coworker would respond by launching into a hate campaign against me with a lot of gossip etc.
Like you said in your post about your rules to live by, and learning how to allow yourself to shine?
It was dangerous to shine.
I also don't want to get "gold star stickers" for my babbling process.. I want to regain my inner core strength through my process.
There is another quote that jives with me..ok, hope I don't butcher it.
Martha Beck: "I don't know what the hell is going on, and I'm ok with that".
I love this quote, Helen. It is the opposite of perfectionism and trying to control , two of my hardest things :? Ami
Martha B. uses this quote as a Mantra.
I think that when people grow up in very controlling/manipulative environments that its only natural to turn out controlling oneself.
If we didn't keep a tight handle on ourselves then we would be punished, our environments were chaos and scary and dangerous.
I think control is an attempt to manage fear and pain etc.
At least you already know that they are a couple of challenging things for you.
Ami, you sound pretty "together" if you ask me. You didn't ask me, but maybe you are not as messed up as you seem to think you are.
No offense. I mean I know that the emotions, memories and habits are there and still very real. I totally respect that part..
I don't know..... One of my therapists told me that, I was not as bad as I thought I was, that I had a lot of self awareness and was not quite as disfunctional as I thought I was. I mean I've got problems yes, but maybe I don't own every single issue ever named under the sun. She told me that the main area I really needed to work on was my sense of self. Finding myself so to speak, developing my own identity, figuring out who I am. Because I didn't get to do that as a kid.
I don't know, maybe you are controlling? Or maybe it's just another way that you are manifesting the introjection judgement of badness.
I mean exactly how are you controlling? Are you a little controlling, or so controlling that you feel that it's interfering with your life?
You don't have to answer my questions Ami, I'm just thinking out loud. I guess I'm sort of writing my impression about you here, but I don't want to interfere with your own process. Tell me if I'm interfering ok? I will stop and take my questions away.
I can't pretend to be a therapist...
I think controlling is an interesting subject....I might write about this. Controlling is like a signal into our fears. I too have my controlling habits.
I tend to over-prepare for certain things.
Why does it feel so forbidden,so criminal to have a self? :shock:
I don't want to hurt anyone else. Ami
Want to write about BAD. Yesterday, I thought I broke the desktop screen. The other day I disabled the sound on my lap top.
BAD just sits there and waits.
I think I am bad when I am primal and not perfect. That leaves F##ing much left--huh? Ami
Why does it feel so forbidden,so criminal to have a self? :shock:
I don't want to hurt anyone else. Ami
Ami, why do you think you are going to hurt someone else? Who are you going to hurt? How are you going to hurt them?
What are you thinking? Have you hurt someone?
Why does it feel so forbidden,so criminal to have a self? :shock:
I don't want to hurt anyone else. Ami
Want to write about BAD. Yesterday, I thought I broke the desktop screen. The other day I disabled the sound on my lap top.
BAD just sits there and waits.
I think I am bad when I am primal and not perfect. That leaves F##ing much left--huh? Ami
Amy, what is this all about? I'm not following you here. Were you writing about BAD on your computer and then you wanted to break the computer?
Or did you accidentally do something to the computer and then you told yourself that you were BAD for the accident?
My feelings when I read this Helen. I am crying. I think it is from happiness that you understand. Thank you! AmiWhy does it feel so forbidden,so criminal to have a self? :shock:
I don't want to hurt anyone else. Ami
Well, Ami you do have a self, it may be a small, quiet self, or sort of invisible. But it IS there inside of you, your essential self.
It is OK! To have a self. It's natural to have a self, NORMAL to have a self.
Your M told you it was not NORMAL to have a self, Your N-mother was lying to you.
You WERE NORMAL all along.
Maybe, just slowly get acquainted with your essential self, I think you have been doing that AMI, I think you will be OK.
Slow and easy... Every day say hello to your SELF. Even if it is SCARY.....it's a good kind of scary like learning how to swim.
Why does it feel so forbidden,so criminal to have a self? :shock:
I don't want to hurt anyone else. Ami
Ami, why do you think you are going to hurt someone else? Who are you going to hurt? How are you going to hurt them?
What are you thinking? Have you hurt someone?
What I meant was that I feel *I* am so bad(selfish ,despicable, awful, worthless) for WANTING a self of my own to love, nurture, protect and care for.
I meant I have no desire to hurt another person only to have a self but I feel *I* am so "bad" for wanting this..
My feelings when I read this Helen. I am crying. I think it is from happiness that you understand. Thank you! Ami
My feelings when I read this Helen. I am crying. I think it is from happiness that you understand. Thank you! Ami
Yes, Ami, I truly believe that you were NORMAL and PERFECT just as you are/were as a kid. That is probably the deep truth.
The "BAD" that you struggle with is a lie. It's a tenacious lie, but you will begin to see how it was a lie. It was a controlling device.
It sounds like, from your crying and happiness that you received some much needed validation?
Is that what you are feeling AMI? Validated, accepted?
Do you feel like I just saw the real you?
Since you have this "BAD" lie stuck on you (like a gross booger ghost), then maybe just allow your self to be "BAD"
If you have to be "BAD" to be with your SELF then say f*ck-it. I'm gonna be BAD-ASS and get in touch with myself.
I don't know AMI, it's just an idea. Maybe it makes sense to you or doesn't?
What if you say "I'm gonna be "BAD" and I'm OK with it?"
I mean I don't think you are bad, but maybe the technique you need to use is just saying to yourself, It's bad and I'm going to do it anyways.... and after you do it for a while you will see how it wasn't really bad in the first place.
Some people pride themselves on being BAD-TO-THE-BONE, you know like get on a leather jacket, hop on your Harley and drive your self to ESSENTIAL SELF land.
(sorry about the booger reference, apparently part of my essential self is into boogers) I've got a booger theme going on, I really hope I grow out of it!! :D
Have you ever tried having a"' Bad" self, Helen? 8) Ami
You were right, Helen. I was afraid I would kill my NM if I was Blackie. I became submissive Whitie-- no anger, infinite forgiveness .
I can't face my H. Whitie can only see good things
She is stuck b/c she can't wash off BAD. Ami
For me,(( Helen))the "Why bother?" is the hopelessness from my NM where 'Why Bother?" WAS valid. I could never get traction,go forward. I was slapped on one side and knifed on the other.
If I tried, I was told I tried too hard. If I didn't try, I was told I was incompetent. My life was the quintessential 'Why bother?"
Maybe this rings a bell.
I will give you some instances. My M told me to be a better student. When I was ,she told me not to be a "greasy grind". She told me to "fix myself up". When I did, she told me I was vain.
If I was too thin, she told me I should look "healthier". If I was too fat, she would pick put s/one who was thin and compare me to them.
It was on and on --no win i.e. Why Bother? Ami
Is my heart desperate?
Is my heart desperate?
Dear Helen,
A desperate heart is the heart that God loves most.
The times in my life where I felt just like all that you wrote in your post were the times when I was most close to God or rather when God was reaching the most for me to turn to Him in complete trust. Learning to listen to my heart and not what the world expects, not easy but so fullfilling in terms of peace and getting down to the real stuff of life and our true selves.
The tension in your neck; the grinding teeth... yes, it's a signal of sorts from you to YOU (or vice versa). It's been that way for me. Something (and it sounds like you're getting close) needs to be addressed.
I see little Helen twirling around with daggers like a tasmanian devil.
((((((Helen))))))My yoga tape says that depression is NOT being with your essential self. Ami
BRIGID/ BRIGIT
Is a celtic deity. She rules a variety of things including:
Creativity, Inspiration, Poetry, Healing, Medicine, Feminine Arts, Inventions, Love, Agriculture, wells.
I'm just putting this here, I suppose because I like the combo of things she represents also, Inspiration is something that I can't find. Instead I will be making some decisions out of fear, not out of inspiration or someother more positive thing.
I will be making decisions out of fear and that is MY reality.
I suppose I hate myself for the shape of my life, the parts that are fear driven, the opinions that say it's bad to be fear driven.
Those opinions must be coming from people who are not living my life.
I AM ALLOWED TO BE FEAR DRIVEN if I need to be, it's important not bad.
There is a point where these insights and processing diverges too far from reality to be useful to me.
Sometimes life just is hard, sometimes life just sucks, sometimes life really does not have room for fun. That is how I got here in the first place.
I guess today I feel fearful. Fearful, angry and grumpy.
I'm thinking about my FEAR, what it is, what it feels like. It is sometimes a subtle stress. I think I've got too many things going on in my life.
I have the pressure of getting any old crappy job, and a screaming raging pressure from my essential self that wants a new life, something different. Yet, I've been told that I don't know what I want.
I'm just pissed. I'm pissed at my neighborhood, companies, cars driving by, I'm pissed at people in general today. I'm really f'ing grumpy.
My grumpy is reasonable when I look at it's source. It makes sense. Don't touch me! F*ck off! G-R-U-M-P-Y.
I don't know how many goddam interviews I have been on, I stopped counting, I have applied for hundreds of jobs.
I'm not going to start my own business as people are suggesting in newspapers and so forth. These stories, someone some where always has an easy answer and says that the answer should be easy. EASY. Well why the fuck is it easy for them because the circumstances are converging in such a way that it is doable for them. They are not some sort of superpowered genuses.
GO F Yer self world.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Helen)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
This is where a bataca would come in handy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
(((((Helen))))))) Ami
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Helen)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
This is where a bataca would come in handy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
A bataca, is some sort of pretend weapon right? For sparing. Play fighting.
I saw some pirate swords for halloween.
:lol: Want to talk about it, Helen? Ami
Sending you good juju...
Let's go back to St. Bridget for a minute...
I'm not married, I have "used" my relatives to take me to medical appointments when I'm not suppose to drive home afterwards due to surgery.
I have to have some minor surgery, have been putting it off because I don't have any health insurance but also because I would probably ask one of my relatives to drive me home. There are places that will not start the surgery unless there is someone in the waiting room. My relatives will begrudgingly take me to a surgery appointment. Begrudgingly being the operative word.
I have had a rare few friends volunteer themselves for this sort of thing. Most friends I know I would not feel comfortable to ask them to do something like this.
I think this is one of my frustrations with my relatives. I really want to not need them in any way whatsoever.
The thing is most people don't feel so bad about needing help. I agonize over it. I feel weak for it.
It's a strange feeling.
Hi Ami,
You are sweet.
I'm writing about it because there is this unnatural stress and agony over needing help. Some people can't fathom this.
I often feel like a worrywart. But it makes sense that I worry, I think.
Hi, Ami,
Yep that makes sense.
I think you have the idea that "you are bad".
I think I have the idea that "something is wrong with me".
Those two thoughts are probably the same thing going on, it's from being rejected and neglected and mistreated.
So we blame ourselves in some way for the way our Nar-relatives responded to us.
Rambling on....
It's true I did accept my relatives idea that something about me is wrong or less then. The thing is it has always been a deep and vague feeling. My relatives have never been able to pin point what they say is wrong with me. I think that is a sure and clear clue that they are full of shit because they don't have any real examples. The few examples they can come up with are pretty mean and irrational and overly critical when I think about it.
I have ups and downs in my life like anybody. The relatives point out the downs as evidence of me being bad and wrong and screwed up.
Actually the term Screwed-Up has some heat to it. Screwed-up is a popular term in my family.
The ironic thing is that if I am screwed-up it is mostly due to them.
Why do I reiterate this, I mean sometimes I think I get it, but then I have to write it again and then I feel like I understand it more.
It ends up being an obsessive-compulsive desire for understanding.
I guess that round and round thinking, analyzing is the internal emotional body pointing out at how big and real this emotional wound really is, it is my body and mind telling me over and over and over, THIS MUST BE ADDRESSED. THIS needs to be healed.
It seems to me that acknowledging on a deep level that I am wounded, It was a REAL wound/hurt and a REAL problem. REAL
REAL REAL REAL
I am REAL
So strange. I have to tell myself that I AM REAL.
The coworkers were creating the yuck, and I was believing it because my family told me I am yuck.
Just want to say that I get it about "normal" people honoring their YUCK and abused people blaming themselves for it. I was talking about this just today with my guitar teacher who is one of the normies. He is my normie to whom I ask crazy questions :shock:
Be Well Sweetie Ami
ah. sometimes a soul needs an invitation - engraved - a guaranteed admission. But you can make your own because life is for EVERYONE. Everyone is welcome and there is space - a place - for everyone.
Hi, wanted to say thanks
to those people on the board
that encourage me to ruminate, contemplate etc.
( threw a fast compliment and scrammed)Running down street,now. xxooooo Ami
Hi Helen...
you might think those feelings are scary & dangerous, for a reason. But I'm not afraid. I think there is "someone" trying to get out beyond the scary & dangerous... but that this might be a "comfort zone" of sorts; the devil you know... vs... the unknown. Best to let it take it's time... unless you WANT something else...
OK, that's OK by me...
How's your aim with a cannon? Should I duck? :shock:
( (((( Phoenix )))) )
( (((( Hops ))))))) )
( (((( Ami )))))))) )
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
Helen,
Is it your heart you want to kill, or the pain in your heart?
A heart is also where peace comes to live.
hugs,
Hops
Yeah, Ami, that is it, I'm glad somebody understands cus it is so weird.
That simplifies it: "having shame when someone hurts you".
This is something I have to ruminate on. It's really important to me. I need to catch my shame.
I think as long as I realize it the feeling and then maybe not accepting the feeling.
Say to myself "Yes I feel shame but it is because of disfunctional family programming not because it is my fault, not because I am bad, not because I don't have a right to exist, not because I am to deny my suffering."
Yeah, something is coming full circle, I posted a while ago one night when I was just CRYING and I was saying to myself:
MY TEARS ARE REAL
It is slowly coming together making more and more and more sense.
I think all this processing is worth the effort sometimes.
Thanks Ami.
Sometimes when I describe my life to myself in my mind, it is someone else's description of my life and it usually contains unkind judgements.
I struggle between multiple descriptions of me that I have adopted from other people. This probably happens cus I didn't grow up with a strong sense of self. (Breathe here)
This above statement feels like the distillation of a field of flowers into a drop of perfume. I'm coming through to some sort of clarity.
I mean I already knew this in a way, but I know it even more now.
I don't know who I am and I MUST love myself nevertheless....
I must love all the parts of me, even the invisible parts?
I must love my darkness?
I must love the disintegrating self?
I must love change.
I have shame when I am harmed.
This clarifies something beautifully. Thanks Ami
I have shame when I am harmed. Its cus the harmers blame us for their abuse.
Its the whole abuser blaming the victim thing.
The more I say it, look at it, think it, the more clear the whole picture gets, the lie.
Every day I see the lies a little more clearly. Every day I become a little more ME.
I'm starting to identify this subtle shift this feeling during these moments when I start to "fake it". When I leave a little. When I kill myself a little. When I die a little. When my consciousness goes somewhere to hide.
I'm thinking about that feeling, that shift and maybe the next time it happens I can shift myself back, bring myself back from over the ledge, hoist myself back into my body.
I will notice that shift in the future and I will bring it back reel myself back in to center. To the core self.
It's solid.
All those little moments maybe are not as dangerous as my consciousness seems to think they are. ?
I will be there with my consciousness hang with it, chill with it, arm it with psychic weapons if need be.
Breathe.
I'm giving my consciousness the permission to come back, to dwell and live in this here imperfect body and imperfect life.
Complete permission, after all this is home.
The consciousness leaves I think so that we are not damaged in some way. Or because we have been damaged.
The thing is one is probably stronger, better able to draw upon our internal resources when the consciousness is not fleeing.
Me and my consciousness are gonna have a discusion about this soon. A heart to heart.
I don't understand all that I have with him but whatever it is, it is breathing life in to my lifeless body and the same for him.
xxoo Ami
Hi Helen...
The book A Fine Romance by Judith Sills is one of the most HELPFUL self-help books about relationships I've ever read.
This is exactly the timing, when it would do you the most good...
love and luck,
Hops
Dear(( Helen))
If God brought him, it will be OK. If not, you can't hold it.
So go slow... wait & see if his actions match what he "says"... remember that boundaries are meant to have doors in them - like fences & gates... and there are many "circles" of boundaries.
This probaby has nothing to do with voicelessness, but now, stupid me, I'm pretty much doing that thing "waiting by the phone for him to call".
I just want companionship someone to cuddle with, picnics, why is it so flippin' difficult for people to do this. OR for me to do this.
Now I'm sort of pissed at this guy for starting anything in the first place.
It's fine, it's probably a good thing, I mean I guess it makes me realize how lonely I am, but the thing is I get use to my loneliness, I adapt to it and then I don't feel so lonely anymore. This works as long as guys don't interfere with my loneliness.
"Don't interrupt my loneliness, I have it refined to an art form"
After all what would I have to look forward to? Becoming a sperm receptacle?
Ugh. I will take my freedom any day.
Oh that guy better not even contact me now, cus I am so wanting to bitch him out.
Guys like to say this thing about expectations about how they want females to have few expectations of them, well you know what I HAVE EXPECTATIONS. And I am not ashamed of it. I absolutely have expectations and I am gonna say it if he even dares to contact me again he better just go running with his wimpy tail between his legs. Grrrrrrrr.
Ok, I will not do that because it will make me look insane to him.
I already resigned myself to becoming a lonlely old maid years ago. That is not exactly what I want I don't think.
I should just stick to the plan, The Lonely Old Maid Plan.
The Lonely Old Maid Plan can bring a certain type of contentment.
I'm just pissed that guys even mess with me at all, I just want to say if you aren't serious then don't even look at me, don't even talk to me.
Cute?
I think guys call this B*tch.
Good Morning Ami.
Ok, this guy, I am attracted to him, he has muscles! REAL muscles! And I want them wrapped around me.
Misery.
I'm like a teenager. In fact a woman just insisted that I look like I'm 18, I think this is suppose to be a complement for women.
It's not true, my ass is not 18 yrs old.
So my goal is just to get some guy muscles wrapped around me and I have to read books? I have to have strategies. Why?
It's so basic, so human, why is it like some sort of NASA circuit board manual. I make it too hard because I'm a control freak, I could have just stuck my butt in his face, but of course I didn't and wouldn't do that. It's exhausting. I'm taking a break.
Ok, Now I go knit like an old maid.
I have a thought for you while you knit. I got several e books on male/female relationships. Let's face it, I have been in a hole for decades so need some remediation. Is it anything to be ashamed of :shock:?
I have a thought for you while you knit. I got several e books on male/female relationships. Let's face it, I have been in a hole for decades so need some remediation. Is it anything to be ashamed of :shock:?
Ami, What e books are these? Have you read them already?
I LOVE my e books ,Helen. I will PM you the names cuz they are too embarrassing to write on the Board :?
Well... this might be totally random, off the wall, maybe even unwelcome...but here goes anyway....
maybe "wellness" can be defined by how well we weather life's disappointments... you know, does it send one into a tailspin; a hellbound downward spiral? Or can we just swallow hard... tell ourselves "THAT was unpleasant" and move on? I mean, do we need a pill for everything untoward that happens to us??
I'm only asking 'coz I might need an authoritative answer. Asking my self the same kinds o' questions these days.
Mother Ami is here. It takes time for a guy to open up--a lot of time. Men trust more slowly than woman. The e books tell you this. Get the e book ASAP :shock:. xxxxxxooooooo Ami
Sweetie
I am sorry you are hurting over this, (((Helen)))). Social situations are hard to figure out. Ami
PS I was thinking about your situation last night. I really and truly think that a big part of relationships are simply social skills that we might not have learned.Also, our own self concept is damaged ,of course, and this makes relationships hard, too.
I have met many people here at this religious retreat who have healed from FOO's worse than mine.
Hang in there, Sweetie. We can heal together .
Sweetie
I am sorry you are hurting over this, (((Helen)))). Social situations are hard to figure out. Ami
PS I was thinking about your situation last night. I really and truly think that a big part of relationships are simply social skills that we might not have learned.Also, our own self concept is damaged ,of course, and this makes relationships hard, too.
I have met many people here at this religious retreat who have healed from FOO's worse than mine.
Hang in there, Sweetie. We can heal together .
AMI: I love it when you email me love, I don't really understand how this is possible but hey, it's pretty cool.
Thanks!!!!
It's ok, even minor romances in the most imperfect forms always add something to my life. Honestly.
At the moment I'm rockin out and I'm content to be listening to some great music.
All I got to say is that if I knew how to ride a motorcycle and was adventurous enough to do it, today would be a motorcycle day.
I don't have one, I'm not sure about renting one. I just want to be on a little motorcycle and I would ride it along the coastline watching the sun rise. It could even be a stupid fairy princess motorcycle with sparkly fringe hanging off the handles.
It's a wind blowing in my hair kind of day, want to fly.
The sunrise here is so florescent pink that it looks like one of those tacky Hawaiian paintings.
Today I'm flying inside of a tacky Hawaiian painting and I'm going to go put on my sexiest dress just because that's how I feel today.
At the very least I'm going to the beach in my tight dress, and I'm going to smile at all the guys just because I can.
Then I'm going to go running in the opposite direction when the guys come after me "Oh shit".
Ha Ha That's me.
Good Morning
It ends up being an obsessive-compulsive desire for understanding.
I guess that round and round thinking, analyzing is the internal emotional body pointing out at how big and real this emotional wound really is, it is my body and mind telling me over and over and over, THIS MUST BE ADDRESSED. THIS needs to be healed.
It seems to me that acknowledging on a deep level that I am wounded, It was a REAL wound/hurt and a REAL problem. REAL
REAL REAL REAL
I am REAL
So strange. I have to tell myself that I AM REAL.
Hi Helen,
I've been reading your truth post for the last two days. I just want to thank you for your voice. I'm on about page thirty of the post so not quite done. Your above statement just resonated with me. I get the same feeling of a compulsive need to understand 'why?'. It's a longing, a yearning, it's burning, I don't know. :p Now the uncomfortable part: My voice hears your voice and says, 'YES!' Thank you for giving me the gift of your voice. End awkward phase...
Keep it up, Sharon
Is it possible to listen to Alvin and the Chipmunks without smiling?
It is sort of making me want to cry at the same time that I'm smiling, and my ears hurt and when I laugh my stomach hurts because I exercised yesterday, I exercised because I thought a guy liked me so I had a reason for existence and maybe I should take care of how I look, I've realized I don't look to good except that I think the small amount has made me a little more curvy I don't know.
Whatever.
I'm listening to a Michael Jackson song sung my the chipmunks and my mind would be swimming with how wrong this is, but it is so funny.
I want to rollerskate to chipmunk music in some tropical place wearing a pink bikini and white skates. Yep.
"Wanna be startin something" is so bizarre everyone thinks the lyrics are "Your a vegetable" is this really the lyrics.
I thought maybe he was saying you are detestable?? You are a vegetable??
I love the part where they all say Heehaw... Like Heehaw! More of a HE-HEEE-I-HAW....
Someone should really do a remix based on the He-Heee-Ie---HAwwww... Part.
You know what I mean?
Sending some smiles your way!!!
It IS "You are a vegetable?" :lol:
OH NO HAHA HA
I just checked my email and this guy I know and bumped into last night says that he just graduated from a massage school.
Ha HA HA
He wants to practice on me.
HA HA HA
Oh my god this is too fricken funny. I know too many men who are smooth talking massage therapists.
Heeee Heeeeie Hawyww
SHIT and I was so happy that I had a guy friend. Not so much of a friend I guess.
Ah, I need a massage, but do I want him to put his hands on me I don't know.
I'm gonna stew over this before I respond to him.
Oh hell I should just say sure.
I went to the beach today and read a book then all I wanted to do was to bury my face into my pillow, once I get into bed I don't really cry though it's just blank out like anesthesia.
I started this day as Happy, I ended it as miserable deciding that my grief of not having a family, a tribe, a place, a home, a belonging, belonging to someone. A stuckness. The "quiet desperation or silent desperation" or what ever that phrase is.
I see why I stayed in my own world I was safe there, my quietness, much safer. Safety in aloneness. Alone is a safe and unkind place.
Some times I really do just feel like garbage. On the beach I finally was picturing all my red blood running out into the water.
I picture myself dissapearing and I see how the world is the same without me. So I don't know what am I doing here, "what is the point", I ask that of myself.
I'm not going to kill myself just expressing the feeling and my thoughts, I do think about it.
It would be a way out. I wonder if the suffering is worth living for. If suffering has its own value it is a stupid thought, but I have to find meaning in stupid things somedays.
I'm ok, if I go to sleep I will wake up and feel different tomorrow.
I feel like I'm stupid for being hopeful, because in my heart I know the truth is disappointment. That is what my life is about.
I read what I wrote above it sounds so down.
I'm running out of life, days for living, thinking that I can change me. I don't change, I haven't changed for the past ten years, instead I'm just getting older, older, older, life going into the gutter and away and its gone. And my grief is there under it all.
I need to just gather myself together possibly. Lay down turn the lights off and then get up later.
Men they take and don't give back.
Life itself takes and doesn't give back...that is the time...it is loss...
This isn't making any sense cause I'm too tired and upset that I can't think or make my fingers want to type.
Try again later.
Hi Helen
I miss you! Ami
Hi Helen
I miss you! Ami
Thanks Ami, I miss me too. The me before some dumb guy came along and got me startin thinkin on muscles.
I went to the beach yesterday and there was this man standing on the shore of the beach holding this little baby. I was all like...Ohhhh...Ohh.
Ehhh.....I'm dumb and I'm tired.
OK, I guess I'm posting this here. This is just a realeasing of my immature stupidity. I don't need any consoling, because you all don't really know me, and you don't know this guy so you can't really know I just need to put it out there and see how it sounds and looks when I leave it out in the open for a while. I know this is soo highschoolish or something but here it goes. It's my thoughts this morning.
I don't believe he could like me, he is really good looking. I think he is playing with me.
I can't explain to him that if I get hurt again the maggots in my heart will multiply into king kong maggot monsters that will eat a whole city and then (I have to omit a part of this here because it makes me laugh hysterically like I'm crazy) are going to liquefy into maggot juice that drains down into hell itself and turns my soul into a demon or something like that. I don't know.
I guess I could tell him that maybe. Ha HA HA HAAA!
I'm afraid. Really afraid. I don't believe it... I might ruin it because I don't believe it.
I met him in a cafe, I rolled out of bed no shower put on a sweatshirt and went to the cafe, hair a depressed nest. I mean I don't think I'm attractive but not especially that day. I was gross.
I feel like he picked out the dumpiest chick to get an easy f*ck.
But he is good looking, it doesn't make any sense.
Maybe I just keep on taking it slow, flirting just for the fun of it?
Do guys really like to put their arms around women and hold them? Do they just say this.
I mean the guys I've been with are sort of in and out. No cuddle no sweetie. Just a stoic man that tolerates my cuddling.
I think he is too fricken good looking, OH no I'm falling into infatuation.
I'm tempted to help him date women because he is good looking and I just don't get it. I DONT GET IT. Something is not adding up, I'm gonna figure out what is wrong, digging, I'm going to find the fricken truth. But hey part of me does say maybe I should just scr*w him.
But part of me says no that is not what I want or...what do I want? Does what I want exist? Oh right, I want a picnic but maybe not a picnic. I just want someone who is happy just to hang out with me. Yeah, ok I have had that sometimes. I want someone who is not going to hurt me. NOT GOING TO HURT ME.
I mean yes guys are sometimes attracted to me and it freaks me out, usually. Yeah, I can't really deal with it. IT's sort of too much.
I know that bailing before I crash is one of my coping strategies in life.
I did this when I tried to learn to water ski. I got up fine on the skis, really no problem but I'm a little afraid of water and I would let go before I could really get going on the skis.
AM I doing this to myself? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I'm just gonna hang in there? Until I crash and the waves rip my skull to oblivion.
I don't know this morning. I am in utter unknown I don't want to know. I'm afraid to know.
Afraid to know that maybe no one can love me and never will love me.
I mean I know this is not true, Maybe, I don't know.
I am having an I DONT KNOW DAY. I DONT BELIEVE IT
I am literally wringing my hands as I read what I just wrote. I don't normally wring my hands!
I'm developing new and greater heights of anxiety!! Yippeee!! Ha Ha
I am so hyper critical of myself. I really am.
Late bloomers make the most gorgeous flowers.
love,
Hops
You can tell me to Buzz off ,if you want ,but you could`always call hum back and be honest with him about how you feel. Ami
Kid stuff is so much fun. I remember I always wanted a doll house like the one in a quaint store in Hingham Mass. I would look at the doll house even when I was in high school and dream about having a house like that. Now, I live in a house as pretty as the doll house and I am numb,most of the time. I wander around and it doesn't even feel like it is mine.
Kid stuff is so much fun. I remember I always wanted a doll house like the one in a quaint store in Hingham Mass. I would look at the doll house even when I was in high school and dream about having a house like that. Now, I live in a house as pretty as the doll house and I am numb,most of the time. I wander around and it doesn't even feel like it is mine.
Yeah, stuff and money are important resources but they don't feed our souls.
Hi Helen
How is your sweet self doing today? Ami
It’s ok for women’s emotions to be ignored. Yet if we don’t hand over our bodies we are “bitches”.
I picture myself walking out a dust storm brawl of people fighting with each other unscathed and unnoticed like sometimes happens in Crocodile dundee movies, he casually, nonchalantly walks out of a bar while the whole bar clientele are drunkly, stupidly bloodying up each others faces.
You're welcome, hon.
I'd love to take a walk with you.
I cleaned house like crazy yesterday, my minister housemate was having a meeting here, had to spruce it up. Felt good afterward.
Did a good Sunday myself...nice connections with the CommUUnity (one of us is a great singer and we went in a gaggle to hear her band), this morning's service was a nice one (I love hymn singing) and then i went to breakfast with my best church friend and her hubby...we always go to the same waffle shop.
Came home and my D helped me sort some paperwork, really broke the logjam on that. Did a to of laundry and tidying up.
Not my usual M/O!
You always talk about nature...I can tell you're friends.
love
Hops
((((Helen)))) You are still on my party list. Ami
QuoteI picture myself walking out a dust storm brawl of people fighting with each other unscathed and unnoticed like sometimes happens in Crocodile dundee movies, he casually, nonchalantly walks out of a bar while the whole bar clientele are drunkly, stupidly bloodying up each others faces.
Nice image! (and dead-on understanding about their motives). You might also like Elvis Costello's "St. Stephen's Day Massacre". It was included on a Christmas tape of various artists that played with the Chieftains (a traditional Irish band). It was popular - in a really cynical way - in our house during the holidays as a way to inject some humor into awkward family situations. It's sort of a complete opposite of the saccharin mass-media (need I say fairy-tale?) image of the holidays and families.
But then, I'll admit... I'm sort of on a campaign to reinvent Christmas traditions. One year, a brussel sprout potted in a 5 gal joint compound bucket was our Christmas tree. I made enchiladas one year for Thanksgiving... and for several years, would cook Middle Eastern instead of the usual turkey - taters - stuffing. The mass-media image/message about the holidays is a fabricated scam... a false promise of love, light and joy in my FOO setting... and seems to indicate that if you spend enough $$$$$ you can create happiness. I've made up warped lyrics for Christmas carols for years - since I was a kid ... to try to stay more grounded in reality (and not unrealistic expections of a fantasy) as a defense mechanism.
What's been happening with you lately (besides all of a sudden showing up on your family's radar)? Hibernation isn't a bad thing, what with all the illness bugs going around. But some fresh air is good for the immune system, too! Speaking of which, I have to get moving... been in one position too long. I hope you feel motivated to post an update soon... seems there's a lot to catch up on! :D
((((Helen)))) You are still on my party list. Ami
Ok, is Blackie out of the closet yet?
Hi Helen...
I am so glad for you. Hope you thrive and strive in this job even if it's temporary.
Have you heard of Dave Ramsey? He's corny but very canny and has helped me so much.
hugs
Hops