Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on September 30, 2009, 06:58:24 PM
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Why I am suprised/shocked/aghast I don't know but..........................two and a half years ago my mum reported me to social services for child abuse (towards my son). It took me five months to prove she was lying and since then I have been working on the mammoth task of correcting all the information held about us by various agencies. We've moved around a lot and my son's disabled so there are a lot of records held in a lot of places.
The thing that really shocked me about the child protection case was that two other professionals stated there was a history of child protection concerns and that I had serious mental health problems. This was news to me, and I have spent the last two or so years trying to unravel the paper trail and find out where these came from. I received a bundle that I've been waiting eighteen months for from the hospital my son was assessed at when he was four. In it, there is a letter which clearly states that my mum informed the consultant that my son's 'disability' was down to my neglect because of my mental illness and that I was abusive and aggressive. That's where it all started; the last four years of being treated like dirt, not being believed about my boy and worse than that, him not getting the help and support he needed, began with an allegation my mum made four years ago after we had a row.
I don't know why I'm so shocked by it, but suddenly all the pieces fell into place. I thought these professionals just didn't like me or that they were prejudiced against single parents - but now I know that, before they met me, they'd all been told that my son's problems were my fault and they all believed it because the source was my mum - and a mum would only say that if it were true.
I'm gutted. We've moved house three times trying to escape the child protection slurs and I've given up work to care for my son full time because we couldn't get any help from anyone - and now I know why. The way I feel at the minute I'd like to pack my stuff and just move to a hut on some remote little island where no-one can get to me.
Sorry to go on, just need to get it off my chest. That woman didn't deserve to have children.
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Why I am suprised/shocked/aghast I don't know but..........................two and a half years ago my mum reported me to social services for child abuse (towards my son). It took me five months to prove she was lying and since then I have been working on the mammoth task of correcting all the information held about us by various agencies. We've moved around a lot and my son's disabled so there are a lot of records held in a lot of places.
The thing that really shocked me about the child protection case was that two other professionals stated there was a history of child protection concerns and that I had serious mental health problems. This was news to me, and I have spent the last two or so years trying to unravel the paper trail and find out where these came from. I received a bundle that I've been waiting eighteen months for from the hospital my son was assessed at when he was four. In it, there is a letter which clearly states that my mum informed the consultant that my son's 'disability' was down to my neglect because of my mental illness and that I was abusive and aggressive. That's where it all started; the last four years of being treated like dirt, not being believed about my boy and worse than that, him not getting the help and support he needed, began with an allegation my mum made four years ago after we had a row.
I don't know why I'm so shocked by it, but suddenly all the pieces fell into place. I thought these professionals just didn't like me or that they were prejudiced against single parents - but now I know that, before they met me, they'd all been told that my son's problems were my fault and they all believed it because the source was my mum - and a mum would only say that if it were true.
I'm gutted. We've moved house three times trying to escape the child protection slurs and I've given up work to care for my son full time because we couldn't get any help from anyone - and now I know why. The way I feel at the minute I'd like to pack my stuff and just move to a hut on some remote little island where no-one can get to me.
Sorry to go on, just need to get it off my chest. That woman didn't deserve to have children.
Don't feel sorry, (((((Twoapenny))))) That is horrible. I can't imagine the pain and betrayal you are going through. I am so very, very sorry you had to endure her as a mother. xxxooo Ami
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Twoapenny,
I would be so mad I'd be steaming. I would file a formal complaint with the agency that transmitted that data to other places unverified. You might even have a lawsuit. Your mother's psychiatric opinion of you is not valid. Its hearsay and if it appears anywhere as anything other than her opinion...the the agency who changed it from opinion to fact should be sued.
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Hey Twoapenny!
Yes, I agree with Sealynx. You may have legal resources at your disposal. It can't hurt to check it out and have a consult with an attorney.
All I can say is that you have my whole-hearted sympathy. I cannot imagine the h*ll you went through and the worry until it was sorted.
Frankly I know and its horrible to say, but had I not had DH, my NM would have pulled such a stunt. But there'd be no way she could do so with my husband and his family behind me.
You are in my thoughts and I am sending positive thoughts your way.
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Yes, I too agree with Sealnyx. Sometimes filing a lawsuit and presenting another side with supporting documents and expert opinions is all you need to get her to drop her charade. Also, is there anyone at a mental health facility that can be contacted to evaluate her? If she is an undiagnosed N you might be able to get a court to order an evaluation for her. If shes harassed you this might another step to take.
About 20 years ago, a cousin of mine got a restraining order against his mother (my Aunt, an undiagnosed N) because she verbally assaulted his wife and showed up at their residence unannounced.
I know we are not supposed to invalidate one anothers feelings here on the board, but after all you've been through - you are only steamed?! I'd be livid, pissed and whole bunch of other things I probably cant say on this board!!!!
My best to you and your son. I hope you can straighten this out and go on to a peaceful life.
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Hi Ami, and thank you for your kind words - she's a monster who sat back and let her husband sexually abuse me which makes what she's done about my son even worse. I really appreciate your kindness.
Hi S, I'm writing the first letter today. The problem in the Uk is that the paperwork mountains you have to wade through are so immense that the workload quickly becomes huge. I will get the ball rolling though. I do need to speak to a solicitor more urgently, it's been on my to do list for ages but I haven't really got on with it just yet. I just can't believe it, those people were all nasty to me and I thought they just didn't like me (sounds familliar!) And now I know that they were all told I abused my son and was mentally ill before they met me and they all believed it. What's worse is that no-one helped my boy, and now I can see why - they all believed what she told them. Thank you for your support.
Hi CG, thanks for your message. I'm glad you've got your hubby behind you, being single has made me such an easy target - and my boy couldn't speak until he was five because of his autism so he couldn't tell them what I was like at home either. She really knows how to do a number!
Hi Ales, I probably will be all of those unmentionable things at some point - do you know what's ridiculous is that I'm still so scared of her that my immediate reaction is still to bury it and not react? Crazy. I have threatened her with a restraining order before and did email the sol last night when I found out about this. If I can get one this time I will. I'm also wondering now if I've got enough for the police to do something with her (like send her to an island where she can't hurt anyone). Will take stronger action this time. I just can't believe my own mum would do this. I couldn't do this to someone I didn't like, let alone someone I was supposed to love. Thanks xx
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(((((Twoapenny))))), what your mother did is absolutely horrendous. What a terrible thing to do, awful. No wonder you feel awful and would love to take off to a little hut on a remote island.
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Can you say....
Well documented case for Slander?
And.....
I'd want to finda desserted island and look for Pirates too.
Distance and no forwarding address, for that one.
Mo2
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JUst want to give you another hug (((((Twoapenny)))))) xxoo Ami
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))
I would be LIVID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:
Bones
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Hi Everyone, and thanks for all of your kind words. Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse.......................................I'd done as much as I could re solicitors and complaints and am just waiting for other people to get back to me now. I decided to start going through a huge box of photographs that have been sitting in the corner of the room for years to get pictures of my son being well looked after and played with etc, just to feel like I was doing something and to prove to myself what she said isn't true. I came across a box that's been sat there for twenty or so years, flicked through pictures of me as a fourteen/fifteen year old girl - and a picture of my step-dad exposing himself to me during one of our 'fooling around' sessions that were so common in our wonderful family home.
Sorry to be so graphic but I vomited all over the floor when I saw it. I am gonig to the police - I've had enough of feeling like a victim and I want someone else to fight my corner for me for a change. Thank you to all of you for your support and kind words, it's really helped. I'm going to have a bath and an early night and then contact the police in the morning - I'd like to see my parents start to take responsibility for their actions for a change.
Thank you everyone.
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Dear Twoapenny
I think you are doing the right thing with the police. The ONLY thing it sounds like your NM will understand is strength. I am sending thoughts of courage and fortitude in your journey. xxxooo Ami
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Hi Everyone, and thanks for all of your kind words. Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse.......................................I'd done as much as I could re solicitors and complaints and am just waiting for other people to get back to me now. I decided to start going through a huge box of photographs that have been sitting in the corner of the room for years to get pictures of my son being well looked after and played with etc, just to feel like I was doing something and to prove to myself what she said isn't true. I came across a box that's been sat there for twenty or so years, flicked through pictures of me as a fourteen/fifteen year old girl - and a picture of my step-dad exposing himself to me during one of our 'fooling around' sessions that were so common in our wonderful family home.
Sorry to be so graphic but I vomited all over the floor when I saw it. I am gonig to the police - I've had enough of feeling like a victim and I want someone else to fight my corner for me for a change. Thank you to all of you for your support and kind words, it's really helped. I'm going to have a bath and an early night and then contact the police in the morning - I'd like to see my parents start to take responsibility for their actions for a change.
Thank you everyone.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Sending positive thoughts and strength to go with you when you go to the police!
Bones
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Twoapenny - My heart goes out to you. You are right to go to the police.
The evilness of it is astounding.
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I hope shining the light of truth brings you closure and relief.
If nothing else, it's more documentation against all the lies and damage.
::Wiping twopennie's forehead::
Take care of yourself and do get that good nights rest.
We'll be holding your cyber hand in the morning.
Mo2
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Two a penny,
My sympathies and heart goes out to you! I hope everything works out in the end, even though it was disgusting what your NM did. Ugh, these people will do anything to make people miserable!
You have every right to vomit after seeing a picture of your step-dad. I don't know much about legal advice, but hopefully you can work something out.
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TwoAPenny - I'm sending you my very best wishes for resolving this matter. I also sense your NM has some revengeful anger towards you from your issues with your StepDad. She's violating you twice with this. This is AWFUL! Wishing you strength in standing up for yourself.
Best, Alesia
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Hello again everyone, and thank you again for your kind responses and good wishes.
I have spoken to the police. I called them last night and they sent an officer round to the house. He took me through the procedures for reporting 'historic abuse' as he called it and I explained to him a bit about the overall family situation, particularly with reference to my mum's repeated calls to various agencies about my little boy's disability being due to my neglect of him. I told him that I feel she's been doing that to make sure I don't report my step-dad (ie she's discrediting me and making sure I'm kept busy sorting out the mess she's created). He said that if it's happened frequently and there's no evidence to support the claims she's made that she could be charged with witness intimidation. He also said that, based on what I told him, my step-father could be arrested on several different counts. He's obviously made it very clear that the fact that there is a suspicion to arrest doesn't mean there will be enough evidence to charge, or that there will necessarily be a conviction, but the fact that he took me seriously and believed me has made a huge difference.
I haven't made a formal statement yet, but I told him that my worry about making a statement is that my mum will report me for child abuse again to try and shut me up like she did last time. He said that social services would have to investigate any allegation that was made, whoever it came from, but that the police would make them aware of the reason for the accusation and, in his words, work very hard to ensure no-one intimidates me into dropping the charges.
My sister doesn't know about the sexual abuse and it is her dad that I'm reporting so I have to tell her today and I have no idea how she is going to react and I'm not looking forward to it. But I'm glad I've made the first step and the police have already seemed very supportive and didn't seem suprised about my mum's behaviour - usually I'm met with disbelief and an assumption that she must have a good reason for the way she behaves.
So thank you again everyone for all of your support and kind words, it's really made a difference and made me feel like I'm not so alone. I will keep you posted and I hope that this experience might help someone else who is thinking about involving the police with their own situation.
Hugs, Twoapenny xx
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(((((Twoapenny))))))
I have another question: Since your son has a diagnosis of autism, what on earth is wrong with all these people you have been dealing with, that they would even give credence to your mother's stupid ideas? Even if you were an abusive parent (which I know you are not) it would not cause your son's condition. It seems to me you can sue Child Protection Services or whoever you have been dealing with for mishandling your son's case. Even if professional A put in your file that you caused your son's autism by abusing him, professional B should have looked at that and realized it was not right.
In the United States, every person (or team) who handles a patient for more than a few minutes has to do his own examination of that patient. For example, if the paramedics pick someone up, they have to evaluate the patient. Then when they come into the ER, the ER team has to evaluate. If there is a shift change, the new team has to evaluate. If the person has to stay in the hospital, the nurses on his floor have to evaluate him. And again every shift change. And so on. This is meant to insure that the people treating the patient are not acting on someone else's faulty information. IF the so-called professionals who handled your son's case were evaluating him by reading your file, and not by examining him and interviewing you, that may be grounds for a law suit.
It sounds like every single person who has touched your son's case has messed it up in some way. I wish you the best in trying to straighten this out.
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Oh twopenny:
It made me feel sick to read no one can stop your mother from continuing the abuse, the reports of child neglect or witness intimidation.
About the photo of your step father exposing himself to you......
did you show that to the policeman?
Keep it safe, in any case.
Also, you may find that your step sister has stories about her father too.
She might not be as surprised as you think.
People who cross those kinds of boundaries don't necessarily stop with their own children.
I'm sending you strength and prayers (((twopenny.)))
Take care of yourself.
Mo2
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Dear Two:
Bravo to you!
You took a huge scary step in the right direction. Abuse is all about power and control over another person. Keeping them weak, dependent and fearful. Today you took all that away from them and reclaimed yourself. No matter what the outcome you sent a message to your NM and Step-father that you are no longer that helpless child. Now its important you write down everything she says to you. Date, time conversations. Just in case she tries to pull anything, you will have ammunition to discredit her. Even though the police are on your side, the more you have against her the better.
I wish you good luck! You should be very proud of yourself.
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Hi Erin,
I think there may be lawsuits galore lurking somewhere! There were mistakes during the pregnancy and birth that may have contributed to my son's problems and the way he's been dealt with has been horrendous from start to finish. From what I can make out these child protection allegations were just written up as fact and passed along without any evidence or information from anyone who actually knew me or my son. When we were eventually investigated by social services (two years after she first started making allegations, it seems) the social workers admitted lying in their reports (they never interviewed me, just wrote up what my mum told them about my parenting which was all false) and ignored procedure throughout the entire process. The whole thing is a huge colossal mess and my poor little lad is caught right in the middle of it all. I have checked out the possibility of getting a lawsuit going and I have another three years in which to do so, so at least I don't have to try and cope with that as well as everything else at the minute! Will definitely follow it up, though, I am sick and tired of being pushed around by people.
Hi Mo2,
The policeman took the picture with him last night, I spoke to him today and they're arranging a video statement for next week and after that they should be able to tell me whether or not they can arrest him and what happens next. I spoke to my sister and she's known for years! He never molested her, it seems, or her daughter which is something to be grateful for, but she said she wasn't suprised that he did it and that she believed me and would support me - very different from my mum's reaction! So it was a relief to tell her and get it off my chest, although she was pretty upset and obviously she has to tell her children which isn't going to be nice. But at least it's out in the open now.
Hi CGM,
Ironically I don't feel very brave at the minute! The house is locked up like a fortress, I'm jumping at every little noise and I nearly battered the cat when she leapt at me from the window ledge as I walked past, I thought my heart was going to jump out of my chest! I'm terrified of what they're going to do when they find out I've been to the police but I'm not backing down this time. I'm sick of being scared all the time and always thinking everything I do is wrong. I have to go to my counsellor, tell her how I reacted to something and ask her if that's what normal people do, because I have no idea how normal people react to every day events and situations. How warped is that? I don't want to live like it anymore and I don't want my son growing up with this as his legacy, so I'm pushing ahead regardless - although a desert island still feels like a very tempting prospect!
Thanks again to everyone for your help and support, I really appreciate it.
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((((((Twoapenny))))))) Ami
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((((((((((((Twoapenny))))))))))))) (((((((((((((((((Twoapenny's little guy)))))))))))))))))))
Is you NM really a violent person? What would they actually do? Can you get a court order to keep them away from your house?
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Ami, Erin, thank you again ((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))
Erin, my mum is verbally and emotionally violent rather than physically. When she finds out I've been to the police she will be terrifyingly angry about it and capable of doing just about anything. With my mum, it's all about appearance - being loaded into a police car in front of her neighbours will be the worst thing that could ever happen to her. If (and it's a big if) my step dad is charged, or even convicted, everyone will know. For my mum, that's a fate worse than death. I would fight to the death for my son - my mum would do it to make sure her appearance stays the way she wants it, if that makes sense? I don't mean her physical appearance but 'what the neighbours think' kind of thing. So quite honestly I am really frightened about what she might do once the proverbial hits the fan. The police officer said they wouldn't let her intimidate me, and I did think today I might just go away for a couple of weeks and not be around at all - just go and stay with friends and spend some really good quality time with my boy. I can't seem to think straight at the minute, my head feels very messy and I'm finding it hard to focus on anything, so I think going away might be a good idea, just until everything's calmed down a bit.
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Twopenny:
I'm so glad your sister was aware and understands.
Thank God she's on top of protecting her daughter.
Thank God she's supporting you.
I want to tell you...... you will never find everyone understands what happened, or that they agree with the choices you make.
There will always be those who question: "Why did you do that?" "Why didn't you do this?" "Why would you jump in fear... feel unsafe..... why are you being so dramatic?" "Why did you have your parents arrested?" "What kind of child does that to her parents?" "Why didn't you tell on stepfather a long time ago, if it really happened?" "Why didn't you this or that or another thing?"
Hey.......
trust your instincts.
Keep a small trustworthy core of people in your loop.
Remember that self care and protection of your child are your priority, not helping everyone understand.
If you need everyone to understand and agree with you, you'll always be off balance.
Ignorant bystanders will be harmed and there's nothing you can do about that. Family and friends will be confused and hurt. They'll probably be plenty manipulated by your mother and SF. They won't know who to believe when there are 2 sides so awful and different. Their frame of reference may hinder understanding, and that's not really their fault. They may contact you on your mother and sf's request.... pressuring you to drop the charges.
Please ignore them.
Let the legal system work.....
let the truth come out in court.
Worry about trusting yourself and protecting your son.
Take whatever steps you deem necessary to feel safe.
I pray closure and peace are at the end of this journey.
(((twopenny, stepsister and children)))
Mo2
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Ami, Erin, thank you again ((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))
Erin, my mum is verbally and emotionally violent rather than physically. When she finds out I've been to the police she will be terrifyingly angry about it and capable of doing just about anything. With my mum, it's all about appearance - being loaded into a police car in front of her neighbours will be the worst thing that could ever happen to her. If (and it's a big if) my step dad is charged, or even convicted, everyone will know. For my mum, that's a fate worse than death. I would fight to the death for my son - my mum would do it to make sure her appearance stays the way she wants it, if that makes sense? I don't mean her physical appearance but 'what the neighbours think' kind of thing. So quite honestly I am really frightened about what she might do once the proverbial hits the fan. The police officer said they wouldn't let her intimidate me, and I did think today I might just go away for a couple of weeks and not be around at all - just go and stay with friends and spend some really good quality time with my boy. I can't seem to think straight at the minute, my head feels very messy and I'm finding it hard to focus on anything, so I think going away might be a good idea, just until everything's calmed down a bit.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I might have mentioned this before, on the other board.....I've been in your shoes and called the police. NWomb-Donor flew into a RAGE because of (a) losing her Pedophile boyfriend and (b) WHAT WOULD THE NEIGHBORS THINK?!? The neighbors were INFURIATED when they learned that THEIR CHILDREN had been victimized by that MONSTER and that NWomb-Donor KNEW ALL ALONG AND DID NOTHING!!!!!!
NWomb-Donor went through all kinds of cr*p trying to FORCE ME TO DROP THE CHARGES but I refused!!!!! However, what REALLY INFURIATED ME was that she was able to convince the prosecutor that I was "too mentally ill to know what I was doing" and HE NEVER SPOKE TO ME TO GET MY SIDE OF WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!! :twisted: So I can REALLY RELATE to the cr*p you dealt with from the social workers and child protection services when they bought into her BS and NEVER spoke to you to get YOUR side!
I realize now that NWomb-Donor was probably terrified that she would go to jail too as an accomplice if the truth came out in court! Your NWomb-Donor might be facing the same consequences for aiding and abetting a pedophile.
Bones
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Hi Bones,
I read about your situaion before and remember thinking 'wow, that sounds like me' at the time. My mum is the same, what he's done to me doesn't matter, it's how it will affect her that will make her so angry. I feel less scared today, but you know how sometimes it would be nice to see how it's all going to pan out, so you know whether to worry or not? Not being in control is a huuuuuuge issue for me. All the time I control my environment, my thoughts, my feelings etc I can cope. But stepping out of my own little box means I can't control everything and keep tabs on it all and that terrifies me. I've agreed to make a statement one day next week so I'm trying to keep calm and just take it a day at a time and not think about it too much. Old habits die hard, though! I'm sorry you've been through the same, the stigma around mental health is huge and it makes me so angry that people would rather believe someone is crazy and making it up than face up to the reality of the situation.
Mo2, thank you again for you kind and wise words. I haven't told many people yet what is going on, but already one who I thought would be supportive hasn't been. I'm trying not to think about it too much, I have decided I will just tell the police absolutely everything without worrying about whether or not it's relevant/useful/proveable and trust in them to do their job. I feel at least once I've spoken out I've shown my strength and shown that I won't be kept quiet any longer, so whatever happens it's a step forward and must be better than feeling scared all the time and acting like a naughty twelve year old. Thanks for your support, I keep re-reading the thread just to boost myself up, so thank you to all of you for everything you've said and your kind wishes.
Twoapenny xxxxx
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Yeah, the best thing to do is to take this situation one day at a time. I'm here with you so you are not alone.
Bones
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Tupp,
I have decided I will just tell the police absolutely everything without worrying about whether or not it's relevant/useful/proveable and trust in them to do their job. I feel at least once I've spoken out I've shown my strength and shown that I won't be kept quiet any longer, so whatever happens it's a step forward
This is the most intelligent, powerful, right-making, wise, mature, independent, healing, farsighted thing.
I am so deeply thrilled that you are doing this. It is GOOD to tell the truth. Name what was. Name what is. It is even good to know that your ultimate liberation has already happened, no matter what the bumps along the way. You are not a victim any more. Once you speak, you are free.
I believe the system will hear you. But even if it doesn't, you are still free.
It's awful but wonderful that you have the photo (did he encourage someone to take it because he thought it was funny? Did he tell YOU to take it?). And to have your sister's support...you are going to be so all right.
Your mother is going to back off as soon as this begins. Bullies melt away when met with real authority or consequences.
I am blown away, inspired, and feel so positive for you.
Hops
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((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))) thank you, it means a lot and helps a lot :D
Hops, thank you too :D The photo of him is one I took. Our whole set up at home after he moved in was weird, and accepted. He spent a lot of time walking around naked, with an erection. He'd encourage all of us to take pictures, it was like a game. Some people play charades after dinner, in our house he'd make himself 'comfortable'. He and my mum spent hours having sex so loud you could hear them from outside the house. It went on through the night and weekends they'd spend all day in bed. He kissed and groped me whenever he felt like it. It was never secret, or furtive - it was so open and 'ordinary' that I had no idea it was inappropriate. Myself, my mum and my sister were like his harem - he did what he wanted, when he wanted, where he wanted. I have fractured memories about much more serious things. They are tiny flashes in my head: it's impossible for me to say whether or not I was raped by him because my memory is too hazy. All of my early sexual experiences -first kiss, first man who saw me naked, first man I saw naked, first erection I ever saw - were with my step-dad. The whole set up at home was (and is) way too far away from what most people think is normal. I'm not prudish and I think being open and honest with your children about sex is a good thing, but what went on in our house was weird and very damaging. I still doubt myself - I'm making a fuss, it was nothing, it was only larking around, I should have said if I didn't like it and so on - but my T always says "would you let someone do that in front of your son?" And my answer is always no.
Thank you for what you wrote. I hope my mum backs off. It would be nice! I know it's not easy to get a conviction about something that happened long ago but I feel that, even if it was just me and he's never done it to anyone else, at least it's on record now and he'll know how I feel about it now. It feels like the right thing to do, even though it scares me half to death!
Thanks again to everyone :D
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Hi Bones and thanks (((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))
I've heard nothing at all from the police yet about making a statement. I've no idea whether this is normal or a sign of how things are going. I could call them but a bit of me feels like I couldn't deal with bad news at the minute (ie they're not going to take any action) and I keep putting the phone down again before I dial! Might just wait till the end of the week. All feels a bit up in the air.
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Twoapenny,
Your description of what went on in your household while you were growing up made me feel really really sad --- especially the part where you felt that it was normal. I just want to support your perception that it was NOT NOT NOT normal.
Although obviously I am on this forum because I have had to deal with maternal narcissism, my dad was not narcissistic and, several years after his death, I am discovering that he actually exerted quite a lot of control over my mother. After his death, she became a lot worse ... until I took a cue from Dad's book and started confronting her when she acted badly. She seems to have gone back into the closet, for the time being at least. Anyway, my dad was a very strong man although he had some issues himself.
The reason I'm saying this is to say I think my dad maintained good boundaries with regards to sexuality. Some might even think he was prudish, but thank God he erred on the side of modesty instead of what you went through. It was the rule that (from about the age of 10 or 11) I wore a robe over my nightgown or slip when outside my room. He left the room once when a Hallmark special was showing a colt being born on TV ... even though he was a cattleman and had delivered calves and colts himself. He always had jeans with a belt hung near the bed, and put them on if he had to get up at night. I didn't have brothers or other young male relatives, so I wasn't real sure what male genitalia looked like until I was about 11 and I think saw a statue or something. He loved his grandchildren but NEVER even asked to touch my tummy while I was carrying them.
Some people might think he was prudish, but I tell you this to affirm to you that what you lived through was NOT RIGHT and it was NOT NORMAL. I have a healthy sex life with my husband and I think have a healthy attitude toward sex, and so my dad's attitude of modesty did not make me embarrassed or ashamed about sex. Instead, I think it kept me from a lot of confusion.
My dad had trouble with emotional boundaries --- he never quit trying to solve my problems and wrap me in cotton-wool --- but IMO that type of boundary issue is easier to deal with than sexual issues.
Again, I am so sorry that you had to live through that nightmare. I know that you have already stated you know now that what you lived through was abusive, but I just wanted to support your perceptions completely. Some people have said that sexual abuse is the worst, because you feel in your heart that what is happening is wrong, but the perpetrator says it's OK --- but then does everything possible to keep it secret. In your case the abuse was compounded by your mother who was in collusion with the perpetrator. In fact, I would call her a perpetrator herself.
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Hi Heart,
Thank you so much for what you wrote. I don't think your dad sounds prudish at all - he sounds like he knows how to act around children, especially girls! My real dad was like that - I never once saw him undressed and even when he was in hospital dying he still got up and put his dressing gown and slippers on before he let us go in to see him. I don't think there's anything wrong with being modest - it's much better than seeing too much.
I hope I am striking the right balance with my own son. I don't expect my parents to be perfect, or anything close to it, but what they did was really weird. I'm starting to tell more people and what I am getting is gasps of horror - so I'm starting to understand that other people think it's bad as well.
Thank you for what you wrote, it does help. I can't even say my parents were very open about sex, because they weren't. They never talked to us about it or sat down and did the 'birds and the bees' bit. I learnt about menstruation from the instruction booklet in my mum's box of tampons and when I started having boyfriends they never sat me down to talk about relationships or sex. I think my perceptions of sex have been far from normal for a long time but thankfully I am starting to see things differently now.
Thanks again, it means a lot.
Twoapenny ()
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((Twoapenny))
((HeartofPilgrimage))
This can leave you so confused. As a child, about 8 I was sexually abused by my brother inlaw.
Thankfully for my own sanity my own father did not abuse me. He also was dressed or in a robe for bedtime.
Sadly, when my father was terminal with cancer I couldn't bathe him, or change him after an accident. We have a large family and my mother and oldest sister did take on this care. My brothers were basically useless.
I loved him so much but was to scarred and did not want him to be in that part of my mind ever. So I cared in all and any ways I could except for that.
Twoapenny, You are amazingly, loving and brave. Your son is very blessed to have you.
Wishing only the best in your fight for you and your son. I'm deeply sorry for the pain you have suffered. seasons
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Oh (((Seasons))), I am sorry you went through that. It does a number to your sense of self.
(((Twoapenny))) I am sorry for all you endured. Trust yourself and keep believing your OWN heart over your M or anyone else.
xxxxxoooo Ami
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Hi Seasons,
I'm so sorry you went through such a horrible thing. It's the after effects that are so bad - not being able to care for your father the way you wanted to is so tough to deal with. Thank you for everything you wrote, I really appreciate it, although I'm sorry you've been through the same sort of thing. My boy gave me the most beautiful smile today in the park and moments like those make everything else worth while :D He's just adorable.
Hi Ami, and thank you again for your kind words and wishes, it helps a lot and I keep reading and re-reading the thread to keep my mind positive! It helps get through difficult patches so thank you to everybody ((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Hi Seasons,
I'm so sorry you went through such a horrible thing. It's the after effects that are so bad - not being able to care for your father the way you wanted to is so tough to deal with. Thank you for everything you wrote, I really appreciate it, although I'm sorry you've been through the same sort of thing. My boy gave me the most beautiful smile today in the park and moments like those make everything else worth while :D He's just adorable.
Hi Ami, and thank you again for your kind words and wishes, it helps a lot and I keep reading and re-reading the thread to keep my mind positive! It helps get through difficult patches so thank you to everybody ((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
My M molested me so I am in the "group" of people who were effected by this. It really puts your self esteem in the toilet. I think you are doing really, really well.
I am sending strength and camaraderie to you ! xxoo Ami
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((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))))) thank you, it means a lot and helps a lot :D
Hops, thank you too :D The photo of him is one I took. Our whole set up at home after he moved in was weird, and accepted. He spent a lot of time walking around naked, with an erection. He'd encourage all of us to take pictures, it was like a game. Some people play charades after dinner, in our house he'd make himself 'comfortable'. He and my mum spent hours having sex so loud you could hear them from outside the house. It went on through the night and weekends they'd spend all day in bed. He kissed and groped me whenever he felt like it. It was never secret, or furtive - it was so open and 'ordinary' that I had no idea it was inappropriate. Myself, my mum and my sister were like his harem - he did what he wanted, when he wanted, where he wanted. I have fractured memories about much more serious things. They are tiny flashes in my head: it's impossible for me to say whether or not I was raped by him because my memory is too hazy. All of my early sexual experiences -first kiss, first man who saw me naked, first man I saw naked, first erection I ever saw - were with my step-dad. The whole set up at home was (and is) way too far away from what most people think is normal. I'm not prudish and I think being open and honest with your children about sex is a good thing, but what went on in our house was weird and very damaging. I still doubt myself - I'm making a fuss, it was nothing, it was only larking around, I should have said if I didn't like it and so on - but my T always says "would you let someone do that in front of your son?" And my answer is always no.
Thank you for what you wrote. I hope my mum backs off. It would be nice! I know it's not easy to get a conviction about something that happened long ago but I feel that, even if it was just me and he's never done it to anyone else, at least it's on record now and he'll know how I feel about it now. It feels like the right thing to do, even though it scares me half to death!
Thanks again to everyone :D
You are so brave to be sharing this, and I am terribly sorry that you had to go through that.
It's great to have a place like this to share this at. Your story also helps us who went through the same thing...
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Thanks Ami, NLS and everyone else, so sorry that so many people have been through or are going through similar. The police have called and I have to make a statement later in the week; I am terrified but I'm not backing down now - I'm just going to cross my fingers that it doesn't get too messy on the other side. I've already been to my GP and had her record that I am perfectly sane and not suffering from some sort of delusional illness which is what my mum usually alleges if I cross her, so I feel that if she does make any false accusations against me I can nip them in the bud quickly.
Taking lots of deep breaths and rescue remedy! Thanks to everyone for your support through this.
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They always want to make YOU feel you are crazy. I hate that! You are doing GREAAAAAT! xxoo Ami
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Twopenny:
I know the feeling of procrastination, when it comes to dialing the police.
However, you seem to have made a connection with one of the officers.
Please cosider touching base with him.... do you have a number?
Whatever you do, there will be those who cast a disparaging light on it..... expect this and don't let it get under your skin.
If you don't call, your case may get lost in all the other cases going.
If you do call, tell him you have questions written down you'd like to discuss. Does he have time? If so, discuss. If not, when can you get back to him?
I forget if you have an order of protection against your mother and step father. If not, is it time to get one?
This order should include their discussing you and your son with anyone. They shouldn't contact your family and ask them to contact you, they shouldn't be able to contact you by phone or computer, either. If they do, you must report it so it's recorded.
Deal with what's in front of you. Keep your head where your feet are. Remember self care rituals and remaining steady for your child.
These are the important things,here and now.
Mo2
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Oh lordy. You have the strength of ten million universes! I can't imagine what you are going through......
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Twoapenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
All the best to you. What goes around comes around.
Bear
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Tupp,
I am sharpening my gardening shears.
Just in case you need backup.
Hops
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Your mother is BEYOND evil! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Walked six miles today and am feeling better for it! Maybe it's what I need to do everyday till this is all done. Ami, Bones, thank you ((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))
Mo2 - There's a different officer dealing with the case now. I spoke to her, she seemed very nice on the phone. She's talked me through making a statement, told me to write down notes before hand so that I can be sure I've told them everything and said we can stop as often as we need to and if we need to do three, four, five visits to get it all done that's fine. She was very nice about the whole thing and sounded like she knows what she's doing, which is always reassuring. Your advice about deaing with what's in front of me is great and I am doing just that now - trying not to think about all the possibilities and just focusing on right now. It helps a lot. I'm going to speak to the police about a protection order when I see them later in the week, they seem to think this is fairly easy to sort out and shouldn't be a problem, so fingers crossed. Thank you (((((()))))
BWM, thank you. What goes around comes around is very true. I've always worried in the past about 'dealing' with my parents because they are older, retired etc and I feel bad - they aren't as strong as they used to be. But then I realised that when all of this was going on I was very young and vulnerable and they made choices that they didn't have to make - no-one forced them to do the things they did. So I feel better about it - there are always consequences and if they now have a difficult experience because of this that's down to them to deal with.
Hops - Lol! I may need them, I will let you know! Thank you xx
Judy - You may be right there. Fortunately I don't seem to be a lot like her so hopefully I will be a better person than she is. Thank you.
Thanks again everyone for all of your thoughts and good wishes, it's helped so much. Thank you.
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We all knew it would work out for you, twoapenny! (bless the ability to finally trust our instincts!) Your NM was using scare tactics, but thank heavens you got to talk to the officer yourself.
You lived through NM and a pedophile...you're strong enough to handle this. Hugs.
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Thinking of you, ((((Twoapenny))). I admire your courage, very much! xxxoo Ami
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Bad news all round - police are not taking any action at all. Very disinterested, not willing to put any leg work in, have said immediately that there isn't enough evidence to bring to court so they will arrest him if I want them to but it would be opening a big can of worms and my mum could make life very difficult for me so do I really want to bother? They're just thinking about what's best for me - sometimes it's better to concentrate on your life and dealing with it day to day rather than worrying about court cases - quote, unquote. Big waste of time all round and rather regretting bothering at the moment. Sorry not to have anything more positive/useful to post. Love to all caring, understanding people who aren't tied up in red tape and can still experience life in the real world! :) xxx
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You did the best you could (((Twoapenny). I guess the saying'The Best Revenge is a Life well lived" fits here. May we all ,on the Board,have lives well lived " AMEN. xxxooo Ami
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Thanks Ami ((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))
Spoke to the police again today and had a really bizarre conversation; she seemed to be giving me a hard time? I wanted to confirm they weren't going to do anything and that my mum wouldn't find out seeing as now they're saying they can't protect me from what she does and we had this bizarre, convuluted conversation where she just wouldn't confirm what she said yesterday and just kept saying she couldn't guarantee anything? It was really odd, yesterday they said there was nothing they could do and today she was saying she couldn't be sure that was the case. She then suggested I consider moving - I'd like to swear but will remember my manners - so as to avoid any future harrassment. I asked her why I should uproot my son when I haven't done anything wrong and she said she never said that she was just saying there are things to consider? The whole conversation was really strange and I felt like she was having a go at me about nothing. She also talked about the child protection stuff my mum's been engineering for years and didn't seem to think it was a big deal because he didn't go on the at risk register. I had to fight tooth and nail for five months to prove what she was saying about me was false and two and a half years on I'm still fighting to have false information removed from the records but she just didn't seem to get how stressful or horrible the whole things been. Can understand why people don't report abuse now, I feel like I'm the one that's done something wrong? Very bizarre. Hops, I might need those shears after all! :)
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Nothing with an N makes sense or has any kind of wonderful human qualities like love, kindness, peace or joy. It is hateful ,ugly and destructive.
You are not at all like that. I can tell. The DONM's are so different, usually, than the NM's. Sending you peace and love, Twoapenny.
xxxooo Ami
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Hi Tupp,
I find that many authority figures to whom one turns to "make things right" about the Ns in our lives may generally help, but in specifics, they may also waffle. Especially when we're yearning for justice, for someone to Officially Declare that we are INNOCENT and the N was GUILTY...it can be maddening.
Even my own attorney, whom I like very much and who does get me (and get my Nsociopath brother)...will change his mind, slide sideways on things. The truth is, he just doesn't know for sure, and he is trained to avoid making solid commitment-type statements.
There's no real external resolution. But I'm still delighted you have been checking out what's possible.
(And personally, I like very much the idea of him being arrested. Even if that's all that ever happened. It breaks their myth apart.)
May not be the right move for you, however. I don't know...
Wafflingly, but supportively,
Hops
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Hi both, and thanks ((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))) Just very frustrated that my mum is able to cause huge amounts of pain with her lies yet I can't get anything done by telling the truth? Seems really wrong. My sister is furious; I've never seen her this angry before but she's outraged that they won't do anything. The whole experience was horrible from start to finish and I felt they were really trivialising what happened. My memories about some of it are patchy so I didn't want to stray onto 'that' territory and prefered to stick to what I remember clearly which is more minor but none the less, I think vomiting when you see a picture you took twenty years ago indicates that the incident was pretty traumatic? Have been pretty hacked off and staying home licking my wounds but I know from experience that it gets better over time and I'm taking my boy to a tractor show tomorrow - not top of everyone's wish list but he loves that kind of thing and if he's happy, I'm happy :) You never know, maybe they'll be there and I can get the tractor driver to run them over :)
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I'm so sorry twopenny.
When I read the police seemed helpful, something inside me began to worry.
I don't know why protecting victims seems like a chore and something the police absolutely refuse to do, but....
I think it has a lot to do with N's making accusations on the other side, like what your mother accused you of regarding child and family services and your son.
Lots of accusations are made by liars about molestation and sexual abuse also.
It makes it that much more difficult to prosecute and believe, frankly.
If you can, please do have your step father arrested, for yourself.
You deserve to be heard and he deserves to be in the public spotlight for harming you.
I'm glad your sister continues to support you. If anyone knows what happened in your home, she does.
Also, moving and making yourself very difficult to locate, when this is done and over, may be the best idea for you and your son.
Your mother can't continue to make false accusations if you're out of Sate, yes?
She can't harm you if she doesn't know where you are.
It seems unfair that family members should be allowed to terrorize other family members like this, unchecked by the law, but there it is. It's a sad situation we're dealing with and there don't appear to be any checks and balances.... only distance and hoping the bad guys find someone else to abuse, so they forget about you.
That's terrible, I know.... but the truth.
So sorry ((((twopenny))))
Justice isn't about justice, I'm afraid.
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Hi Mo2,
The problem is if I have him arrested my mum will immediately phone at least three different agencies - social services, eucation welfare and the benefits agency - which means I'll have three investigations to cope with at the same time. I can't cope with that whilst knowing he'll be released without charge - which then makes it look like I was lying just to cause trouble. Previous investigations are used against you - no smoke without fire - as are my previous mental health problems - prejudice, bigotry and discrimination are never in short supply when dealing with mental health in the UK. This is what also makes moving away pointless - my son's disabled and home educated so at the very least we have to register with a GP and the local education welfare department. I moved 200 hundred miles away before and she simply contacted the hospital in our area - she didn't know the names of anyone we were registerd with but if you file a concern they locate the child and pass the information on, so moving doesn't stop what she does - in fact that too has been used against me because we have moved house so often.
I still feel upset, angry, fed up about the whole thing but do you know what? Seeing me happy, successful and out of her control is a huge problem for her and that gives me great pleasure so I'm going to concentrate on building a fabulous life without her in it :)
Thank you ! You're all fabulous and incredibly supportive. It always amazes me that people who have been through so much have so much to give to other people, but thank heavens for that. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Those who tell the truth, follow the rules, and care about their children, truly are at the mercy of those who lie and lash out.
I'm so sorry there's no protection or recourse for you.
What makes you think your silence will keep your mother from filing more reports?
(((twopenny and son)))
My heart goes out to you both.
Mo2
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Hi Mo2,
You are probably right but I am so tired of it all right now I just want to hide under the sofa and never come out again. I feel like I'm always trying to do the right thing and trying to get out of my situation (ie feeling like a victim and feeling powerless) but it's like there's always someone there with a big stick bashing me and saying "get back in your box! You've no right to live a good life!!". My son was an unplanned baby and I was pretty wild back then; not the sort of person you'd think would be a good mum. But I've really busted a gut trying to be a good mum to him and give him a good life and part of that is dealing with what happened when I was younger - and it feels like other people want to stop that happening? Maybe now just isn't the right time - maybe I don't believe I deserve to be heard yet? Tired of thinking all the time! But my brain just goes and goes and goes and I never seem to be able to switch it off. I can understand why people drink!!
Thanks for your thoughts and you input, I really appreciate it xxx
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Right after I posted my virtual hug to you, TwoAPenny, I received this from another source in my e-mail InBox:
The challenges are not there to pull you down.
Your challenges exist to move you forward.
True greatness comes from
regularly and successfully dealing with
a wide range of challenges.
Ralph Marston, Jr.
I know this helps me ALOT!!!! I hope it helps you too!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
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Thanks Bones ((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))
I do learn a lot from my 'challenges' and I am pretty strong as a person. I do think it's helped my personal development - I like to think I'm not too judgemental of people and have more of a live and let live attitude to life. I have learnt a lot more from life than my parents have, in any case! But sometimes I think "okay, enough challenges! Give me something easy to enjoy!" It will come I know, I just feel so tired mentally at the minute, you know? Sometimes I think I'd like to just wipe my brain clean and start again - you know how when you're making a cake and it goes wrong sometimes it's easier to start from scratch? I'd like to be able to do that with my head :)
Lots of love xx
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Hi Mo2,
I can understand why people drink!!
I remember the first time I had that thought myself.
Mo2
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Don't know what to do now. Police rang again yesterday saying they would like to interview my mum and two of my sisters. They've run checks on my stepdad and there's nothing in the system but they said they're concerned that he might be around other children and want to check him out properly. They're not able to stop any harrassment though so there is a risk that my mum can make allegations and I will have to deal with agencies acting on those as well as local gossip etc. I've had four days of not sleeping, vomiting repeatedly, not being able to eat anything and generally struggling to cope - all anxiety related. I don't know whether to go ahead now or pull out. Part of me is terrified, the other part thinks if I don't do it now I might not be able to do it again - ie police might not investigate a second time if i retract my statement this time. Keep veering between wanting to run and hide and wanting to grow a backbone and get on with it.
Any thoughts? xx
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(((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))
Do you have anyone available to you for support for both psychological and legal issues? I'm sorry to hear about the anxiety manifesting as illness and thought you might need someone that can support you, confidentially on a daily/regular basis. Sounds like you need very consistent help through this tough time. Are you able to keep up with daily life - paying bills, going to work, cleaning house and maintaining your regular activities as much as possible.
Let us know how you are getting along.
I wish I could offer you more support at this time than just my posts.
Sending you my best wishes for resolution and peace in your life.
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I hope you'll go ahead...
Remember, you are NOT the perpetrator.
You are a decent person who can react with strength and dignity to any potential absurd and malicious accusations. Your mother may be so shocked by her own legal jeopardy, or suggestion that it may land on her, that she may back off. (Bullies can do that.)
Standing for the truth, however belatedly, and standing up for yourself, is something that could change your life (even though it's hard). And you have your sister who will back you up, and it will all be on record.
Just my opinion and you are the one taking the risk (and the reward) so I support your decision whatever it is!
Hops
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Dear (((Friend)))
I get stomach problems with stress, too. My feeling is you should continue now that you have come this far. It is just an intuition.I could be all wrong.
Your sickness may be your fear of them.Maybe, if you show strength, you will know you can go up against the monster. Maybe, you will gain more respect in your own eyes.
I respect you so much for what you have lived through and are still are decent and caring person. You will still be a worthy person no matter what you do.
Try to sit quietly and see which way your still small voice leads.Sending you big hugs and vibes filled with courage and love. xxoo Ami
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Oh, (((twopenny))))
I have such empathy for your predicament.
I can't tell you what to do, but I understand the stress and vomiting and not being able to eat.
I understand not knowing whether to take cover, live in fear and keep your mouth shut, or speak up and live in the fear of retalliation.
It seems the system's available for abusers to manipulate......
but not to protect the abused.
I'm really worried about the children your step father may be in contact with, though.
The Police should care about other victims and that's supposed to be their job.
I'm sending you strength and courage..... hoping your mother doesn't launch another attack.
Mo2
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Don't know what to do now. Police rang again yesterday saying they would like to interview my mum and two of my sisters. They've run checks on my stepdad and there's nothing in the system but they said they're concerned that he might be around other children and want to check him out properly. They're not able to stop any harrassment though so there is a risk that my mum can make allegations and I will have to deal with agencies acting on those as well as local gossip etc. I've had four days of not sleeping, vomiting repeatedly, not being able to eat anything and generally struggling to cope - all anxiety related. I don't know whether to go ahead now or pull out. Part of me is terrified, the other part thinks if I don't do it now I might not be able to do it again - ie police might not investigate a second time if i retract my statement this time. Keep veering between wanting to run and hide and wanting to grow a backbone and get on with it.
Any thoughts? xx
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm not familiar with how the system works in England. I know, here in America, the police can provide or refer crime victims to a support system that helps throughout situations similar to this. Does the British system have anything similar?
Bones
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Thinking of you(((Twoapenny))))) xxoo Ami
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Hi all,
Didn't want anyone to think I'd just abandoned this thread after everyone gave me so much help and support, but I haven't posted any more recently because nothing else has happened. I still don't know what I want to do yet so I decided to just leave it and see what the police suggested next. So far it's been nothing at all so I'm trying to put my trust in fate (eek!) and see where that takes me. If anything further happens I will let everybody know. xx
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((((Twoapenny))))) xxoo Ami
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Just checking on you twopen.
Remember.... the abusers depend on crushing you into submission,
where you won't dare raise your voice or give them any trouble.
Have the police interviewed your sisters yet?
Mo2
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Hi Mo2,
The police haven't contacted my sisters or me so I don't know what they're doing at the minute. I was going to call them but my friend's daughter just died so I have put everything else out of my mind for the minute; I feel so sad for my friend and what she must be going through at the minute. I'll let you know if anything else happens.
Thanks ((((((((())))))))))))))
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Have you in my thoughts (((Twoapenny)))))) xxoo Ami
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Ami, thank you. Police have called today, they are horrendous! Rang this morning to say she wanted to come out asap to do a retraction statement - the last time we spoke she was very keen for me not to retract so this was a complete turnaround and took me by suprise. I was too busy to do it today but made an appointment with her next week; she said they were closing the case and it was best if I retracted it so it was on file that I didn't want it to go further rather than it looking like they chose not to investigate it. She called back two hours later wanting addresses and phone numbers of my sisters so she can go interview them all as they reveiwed the case and decided to investigate it - but they still want me to go ahead with retractiing the statement? None of that made any sense to me at all; I've absolutley no faith in them and plan to make a formal complaint. It's like dealing with my mum!! Completely ridiculous situation.
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Ami, thank you. Police have called today, they are horrendous! Rang this morning to say she wanted to come out asap to do a retraction statement - the last time we spoke she was very keen for me not to retract so this was a complete turnaround and took me by suprise. I was too busy to do it today but made an appointment with her next week; she said they were closing the case and it was best if I retracted it so it was on file that I didn't want it to go further rather than it looking like they chose not to investigate it. She called back two hours later wanting addresses and phone numbers of my sisters so she can go interview them all as they reveiwed the case and decided to investigate it - but they still want me to go ahead with retractiing the statement? None of that made any sense to me at all; I've absolutley no faith in them and plan to make a formal complaint. It's like dealing with my mum!! Completely ridiculous situation.
I would definitely speak with their superiors about the way they are mis-handling this case and you!
Bones
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Hi Bones, thanks I'm definitely going to, fortunately I have been writing it all down as we've gone along, I'm going to ask my sister and T to write as well, obviously it affects my sister too and her children (with regards to recrimination) and my therapist has been disgusted at the way it's been handled so I think letters from them as well would be good. I'd accepted at the beginning that I couldn't control the outcome which I knew I would find hard but felt I could deal with, but they keep changing their minds about what they ought to do. Retracting a statement just as they start an investigation seems to me to be ludicrous; what if one of my sisters confirmed what I said but refused to make a statement? They've already got a retraction from me so they then know they've got a sex offender on their hands but no statements to go on? How would that work. It concerns me that there's something going on that I'm unaware of because what they're doing doesn't make any sense. Story of my life! Hey ho - feel pretty good despite it all so will concentrate on keeping my head up and all that :) Thanks, B xx
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It concerns me that there's something going on that I'm unaware of because what they're doing doesn't make any sense.
I agree.
I do not comprehend why the police would ask a victim to retract a statement.
Can you get a clear explanation of this?
Please talk to an attorney (check a women's shelter if you need low-cost advice) before you do that.
xo
Hops
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Hops, thanks for that, I got some advice this afternoon, much better than what the police have said so far, they've advised me to get set up to take out an injunction so that I can organise it quickly if I need to rather than waiting to see what happens and trying to sort something out in a hurry. She didn't understand what the police are up to at the minute and no-one else I've spoken to does eiither; I spoke to a friend of a friend who is a solicitor and she was baffled as to what they're doing at the moment and said it was really odd. I haven't heard from them today but basically it looks like they investigate regardless so why they want me to retract it I don't know, I guess I will find out! Thanks xx
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Honestly, I sometimes think it's easier for the police to blame and bully the victims, rather than deal with the offenders..... the path of least resistance and all that.
Don't think your case is the exception...... I'm pretty sure it's the rule: (
Perhaps you should have a face to face with the Investigator's supervisor, and bring your sister/s with you?
THEY HAVE A PICTURE OF THIS MAN EXPOSING HIMSELF TO A CHILD, for Pet's sake!!!!
((((twopenny and family)))))
God only knows what this man's done to children he's not related to: /
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Hi Mo2,
It feels like, because I didn't walk in there with him and a signed confession, it's too much effort. I am going to put in a written complaint - I prefer that to face to face because I do lose my temper quite quickly and either yell or walk out, which never comes across well. I talked it through with a lady from Rape Crisis (who was brilliant) but even she said it's the luck of the draw - sometimes you get a good one and sometimes they're not that interested. You'd think they'd at least give them all a hard enough time that they'd think twice about doing anything again, but it seems that's not the case.
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Can you request another investigator?
"Not bothering" with a child molestor seems wrong.
Very wrong.
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Have just received a call, they are going round there to interview entire family, will keep all updated. Feeling very nervous now, just hoping things don't get too bad! Eek! Still feel like I'm doing something wrong, silly I know but it's hard to shake it off. Thanks to all :)
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Have just received a call, they are going round there to interview entire family, will keep all updated. Feeling very nervous now, just hoping things don't get too bad! Eek! Still feel like I'm doing something wrong, silly I know but it's hard to shake it off. Thanks to all :)
(((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm with you! Standing up to a child molester is NEVER wrong! He needs to ROT behind bars where he can NEVER harm another child EVER AGAIN! And the NWomb-Donor who enabled him, essentially pimping her own children, needs to ROT behind bars too!
Bones
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Have just received a call, they are going round there to interview entire family, will keep all updated. Feeling very nervous now, just hoping things don't get too bad! Eek! Still feel like I'm doing something wrong, silly I know but it's hard to shake it off. Thanks to all :)
WE always feel like we do something wrong cuz we were programmed that way from N's. Trust yourself. That was the main thing that the N took from us! I am sending you courage !
xxxoo Ami
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Your NM is a real piece of work. I DO believe, however that they are ALL capable of this manipulation and attempt to control the situation. Being a spectrum disorder, N's will run the gamut, and I think YOUR NM is at the high end (aka "really crazy"). My NM has tried her manipulation and controlling ways all our lives. Some things we have just found out. My sister hooked up with an old schoolmate on facebook. They were both in the choir in highschool. This girl told my sister she remembered our NM coming up to her, right beforea concert, and told this poor girl not to sing to loud so as to drown out my sister! Here is this 14 year old, scared enough as it is, facing an audience, and then this woman comes up to her and says that? My sister is 53, so, obviously, , for this schoolmate to remember this after all these years, it must have made quite an impact on her. Then, very recently, my NM told my sister that she had opened, read and then destroyed a letter that a boy had written sis. He was from out of state and NM was worried sis may fall in love with him, marry, and leave the state--in other words, leave NM. At the time this occured, my sister was about 15!!!
It IS hard to believe the things they do. Hugs, Judy
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Tupp,
You're arguing with this thought in your head nice and firmly, calmly, assertively, I-am-an-adult-woman-who-had-the-absolute-human-right-to-make-this-strong-decision kind of way, right?
Still feel like I'm doing something wrong...
hugs
Hops
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Bones ((((((((((()))))))))))))))Hugs to you. Do you know what is really bizarre, I am now telling people about what he did - people I've known since I was young and who know him as well - and every single one has said they're not suprised, they always thought he was really creepy. It seems the only person who thinks he is a saint is my mum :) Thanks for your thoughts
Ames, yes, you're right. I know in my head I'm doing the right thing but my heart is telling me I'm a bad, disgusting liar who should have kept quiet. I am telling my heart to put a sock in it!! Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))
Judy, I do think my mum is at the crazy end of the scale. What's really ironic is that, from a mental health point of view, I'm actually the healthiest in my family. I realised I had problems, I sought help and I've worked really hard at all of it. Because I'm the only one with a 'known' problem, though, i'm the one that's labelled a nutter! My mum's completely cracked but she's never done anything about it so no-one professional knows that. She is incredibly manipulative and very, very good at having people believe what she tells them. Things like the incident you mention with your sister's friend do stay with you for years; that's really scary for a child. Thanks for your thoughts, and hugs to you (((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))
Hops, the thing I'm most impressed with is that you can cross things out on the computer, how did you manage that?? lol :) Yep, it's that old battle between head and heart - I know it's the right thing to do, I know what he did was absolutely wrong, I know he may have done it to others and may still be doing it but there is a little part of me that can hear my mum telling the police that I'm crazy, I've always been evil, she's suffered for years coping with my lies and my mood swings, I'm jealous of her and my step-dad and on and on it goes. It's my friend's daughters funeral today as well :( so it's lots of emotion to cope with. But I know I've done the right thing and you have all been such a huge help to me, a thousand thank yous and hugs to you ((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Ames, yes, you're right. I know in my head I'm doing the right thing but my heart is telling me I'm a bad, disgusting liar who should have kept quiet. I am telling my heart to put a sock in it!! Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))[/quote]
What happens is OUR self concept goes it to the toilet . THEN, we can be abused by them all they want cuz we don't fight back! Fight, Sweetie!!! xxxoo Ami
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I think it's quite realistic to recognize that she will be doing this:
there is a little part of me that can hear my mum telling the police that I'm crazy, I've always been evil, she's suffered for years coping with my lies and my mood swings, I'm jealous of her and my step-dad and on and on it goes.
And proceed anyway, because you are an adult woman with every human right to make this strong decision.
(My Nbrother did a vicious smear campaign against me--neighbors, church, legal authorities. I fought for myself and asserted myself anyway. And I'm prevailing.)
There just
comes
a
point...
When you are not afraid any more, or even if you ARE afraid, you learn to keep walking through it.
I still fear him, some. But it is no longer stopping me. And it never will again. My sense of injustice got so powerful that it gave me strength. And that first decision, to fight for myself as calmly as I can...
love
Hops
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Bones ((((((((((()))))))))))))))Hugs to you. Do you know what is really bizarre, I am now telling people about what he did - people I've known since I was young and who know him as well - and every single one has said they're not suprised, they always thought he was really creepy. It seems the only person who thinks he is a saint is my mum :) Thanks for your thoughts
Ames, yes, you're right. I know in my head I'm doing the right thing but my heart is telling me I'm a bad, disgusting liar who should have kept quiet. I am telling my heart to put a sock in it!! Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))
Judy, I do think my mum is at the crazy end of the scale. What's really ironic is that, from a mental health point of view, I'm actually the healthiest in my family. I realised I had problems, I sought help and I've worked really hard at all of it. Because I'm the only one with a 'known' problem, though, i'm the one that's labelled a nutter! My mum's completely cracked but she's never done anything about it so no-one professional knows that. She is incredibly manipulative and very, very good at having people believe what she tells them. Things like the incident you mention with your sister's friend do stay with you for years; that's really scary for a child. Thanks for your thoughts, and hugs to you (((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))
Hops, the thing I'm most impressed with is that you can cross things out on the computer, how did you manage that?? lol :) Yep, it's that old battle between head and heart - I know it's the right thing to do, I know what he did was absolutely wrong, I know he may have done it to others and may still be doing it but there is a little part of me that can hear my mum telling the police that I'm crazy, I've always been evil, she's suffered for years coping with my lies and my mood swings, I'm jealous of her and my step-dad and on and on it goes. It's my friend's daughters funeral today as well :( so it's lots of emotion to cope with. But I know I've done the right thing and you have all been such a huge help to me, a thousand thank yous and hugs to you ((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Given that the police have a PICTURE of this b*stard EXPOSING HIMSELF TO A CHILD, NWomb-Donor is going to have a H*LL of a hard time EXPLAINING or RATIONALIZING THAT!!! :P
Bones
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Hi Everyone,
I am feeling really strong! It's been over 24 hours - I haven't heard from the police yet but I know they've been round there because I had an email from my sister who stopped speaking to me when I told her about the abuse four years ago. I panicked initially, but then thought about the proof that I have. Apart from my own memories and recollections I have:
The photograph
Two therapists and a psychiatrist who have all said, at various times, they would be happy to write something giving their professional opinion that I am being truthful
One lady at Victim Support and two at Rape Crisis who have believed me.
My sister who believes me (and her husband and their grown up children)
Numerous friends now who believe I am telling the truth, along with some who know my step-dad and who weren't suprised at what I told them
Three police officers - whilst they haven't been great they are doing something now and they have said they believe me, it's just hard to prove
All of you! Who have been wonderful :)
And I thought about all the trouble my mum has caused in the past and, whilst it was horrendous and very stressful, I did prove, every time, that she was lying. So 24 hours on, the world hasn't ground to a halt, I haven't been struck by lightening and nothing terrible has occured. And I'd even go so far as to say I do feel I could handle any accusations she throws at me. I suddenly don't feel so scared any more? It's a bit like learning a magician's trick - you know how once they show you how it's done you see there's nothing mystical or powerful about it, it's just a process that someone has learnt and practised until they are very good at it.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Hugs to all of you. I know I may feel differently, but at the minute I feel good and I am hanging on to that. Thank you to everyone, you are wonderful people xxx
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((((Twopenny)))
I'm so glad you're feeling strong right now.
It comes and goes...... but you keep gainting strength as you go along.
Stay in contact with the people who support you..... your sister and friends.
Don't withdrawl, if you can help it.
Have you organized all the paperwork between you and your mother's dealings? The proof that your mother's been lying and causing you and your son harm?
It's so difficult to explain, I understand.
Is all the paperwork in some kind of order, so it's easy for you to present and explain?
Perhaps you can address that in the future...... in court?
I forget if you have a Order of Protection from her and your SF?
I'm so proud of you.....
you're a good mama, two penny.
Take care,
M02
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Hi M02,
The paperwork's kind of in order, it's not perfect but put it this way, with 24 hours notice I could pull enough together to show that she's lied in the past. There's currently no protection order; I've been advised they'd have to try and contact me twice before I can get an injunction, so far nothing. I've had an email from my other sister (who is firmly in my step-dad's camp) calling me a liar and saying I'm ruining their lives; it did upset me but I've emailed back saying I know what the truth is and that's enough for me; I think I will just ignore anything else. I can block her email address if I need to.
I am hoping to take legal action at some point - I have to keep reminding myself that the rest of my family are in this denial thing where they genuinely can't apply logic to a situation - ie it would make no sense at all for me to suddenly make this up out of the blue and go running off to the police. But I am focusing on the people that do believe me and trying to keep my head together.
Thanks for your support - hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Thanks Bones (((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))
I'm actually feeling pretty good! Apart from a few emails which haven't been dreadful there's been no hassle and I actually was just out and my step-dad drove past me. I stared right at his window and didn't feel scared of him for the first time ever. Usually I look away but not any more. I couldn't see whether he was looking or not as it was getting dark but it felt nice to not be frightened or look away quickly.
Hugs to you. I'd love for them to get enough proof to charge him but even if they can't, I'm glad I've reported it and I feel much stronger for doing so. You were all right; it's mostly your own fear that holds you back.
Hugs to all ((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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(((((Twoapenny)))) xxoo Ami
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Thanks Ami xxxxxxx
There seems to be an interesting development - I say seems because it hasn't been confirmed to me yet so it could turn out to be incorrect. But I've been told today that my parents told the entire family three years ago that I had reported my step-dad to the police and that they investigated and concluded that he was innocent. Now I know for a fact I've never reported him before and the police ran a check and no-one else has ever reported him so there's no way that could be a misunderstanding - they've deliberately lied. I haven't been able to speak to the police about this yet as it's the weekend here and I can't contact them, but to me this is interesting. I know it still isn't clear proof but it would suggest that they have deliberately given out false information to discredit me - and why do that if you've nothing to hide? Will let you all know if anything comes of it.
Thanks again to all for your support,
Twoapenny xx
Someone asked a while ago why I'd chosen the user name 'Twoapenny.' In the UK you use the term 'twoapenny' to refer to something very cheap and easily disposable - ie, you can get two of these for one penny (our lowest value coin). That's how I've always felt about myself. I'm starting to feel different though - a name change may be on the cards!
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Maybe Platinum would be a good new name!
I'm new to the board but I wanted to send a HUGE HUG across the pond, Twoapenny. I'm inspired by your courage!
Love,
Still Ticking
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Instead of "TwoaPenny", how about "Gold Pressed Latinum"?
Bones
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Twopenny:
I think a name change is in order too! Can't wait to see what you come up with: )
As for Sister sending negative e-mail..... I'm worried that she has little ones around your step-father.
My heart wants you to share a neutral e-mail, with all the proof, photos and information backing up your position, that might stay in her mind, esp if she's trying very hard to deny any niggling feeling that something truly is wrong with her father.
That's all you can do.
You can't save people from themselves.
As for children..... we're morally obligated to save them, if we can.
I agree, it is interesting that your mother and sf were so proactive in undermining any future claim you might make to the police. I wonder how much your mother knows. It would seem they've discussed it enough to plot and act. Do you know whether she believes he did these things, or is in denial?
Every day you remain strong and firm, calm and committed, you're teaching your son to do the same.
If you stumble, you teach him how to recover and keep moving ahead.
Do you have any updates regarding your son?
Is he doing OK?
Mo2
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Dear Twoapenny
I think Diamond would suit you! xxxxooo Ami
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Hi Stay Tickling,
Welcome to the board and thanks for the hug!! One back to you! ((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks for name suggestion Bones i like the idea of something sparkly and precious! (((((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))))))))
Hi M02,
This particular sis lives overseas so her children aren't around him, but the other sister has the same feeling toward me (ie I'm lying) and her children are there all the time - it worries me as well. I've told my other sis to contact the police herself and ask them whether I have reported this before and whether I gave them a photo of her dad. I don't think for one minute she will do it but I will tell the police I have suggested she contact them and see what happens.
My mum knows all of it! She has witnessed two assaults herself - very minor ones admittedly. The whole situation in our house was always very weird with him parading around naked and making lewd comments at all of us. He's disgusting. Quite honestly you could stand right in front of my mum and she'd still tell you she couldn't see you.
My boy is doing really well! He's so happy and confident, I work hard with him and tell him I love him - it's doing the trick!! Thanks for asking about him and for your advice - hugs to you ((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
Ami, thank you! I love that name! Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Twopenny:
I'm glad to read you and your son are in a better space.
It's so important to have a consistent, disciplined routine for your son.
When you began posting, there were some problems with that..... how did they resolve?
I remain concerned about your local sister's children, and continue praying your sf is prevented from harming others in the future.
Mo2
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Hi MO2,
I can't remember now what the situation was when I started posting so whatever was going on it must have got sorted out quickly! I am speaking to the police today so will update if there's any news.
Twoapenny xx
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I hope the officer you speak with, connects with this case and makes an effort to help.
Remember to remain calm, state the facts, let the policeperson come to their own logical conclusions, and don't ramble.
Short, on point, answers.
Perhaps have a list of questions ready.
Begin with phrases like..... "I've prepared some questions, do you mind if we address those at this time?"
Remember, these people want to help you, and they want good things for you.....
they're just overwhelmed and covered up.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving twopenny.
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Tupp.
I just LOVE it when the shame and fear and victim-reflexes are replaced by a calm, strong, truth-telling that exposes poisonous secrets to the light...
Just keep holding the truth out there. Eventually, you'll tell it to anyone and everyone who needs to hear it as matter-of-factly (because it IS just a matter of facts) and confidently as someone would say:
"Yes, I climbed in those mountains. There is an unstable rock face HERE (shows map) and you'll need to watch out for poison ivy HERE."
Period. You are just telling the truth about the terrain because you've seen it.
And there's nothing but confidence, wisdom, and strength about that.
Yahoo, woman.
Hops
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Hi Everybody,
I have spoken to the police today and they are not hopeful that they will be able to bring charges. There isn't enough proof to get him to court so unless he confesses there is little else they can do. My mother just drove past me with a huge grin on her face, waving as she went. She knows they've got away with it and she thinks it's great.
The really funny thing is that none of that matters. I feel so different - so much stronger, so much more confident and so much more together - that it's really not affecting me too badly. It would have been nice if he'd been charged, obviously, but everyone I've told has believed me and the police have said they don't think he's innocent, they just can't prove it.
I have been getting through copies of our records and the only bad things in them have come from my mum. She was waging a war against me for two years without me even knowing it. I am taking the rest of the year off and will look into civil action against them next year. I do have the photograph, which at the very least leaves them with some explaining to do, and all the evidence of my mum's malicious allegations against me over time. But the best thing that has come out of this is that I just don't feel scared any more. I've never felt like this in my life before and it's a really lovely feeling.
Thanks to everyone for your kind words and your support through all of this.
Twoapenny xxxxx
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(((twopenny)))
Keep your eye on the important ball.....
your son.
I hope the civil action is a viable option.
::wishing you strength and relief from harm::.
Mo2
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The police have just been round here to tell me they're not even going to arrest him, let alone charge him, thanks to the wonderful alibis provided by my mum and sister. They then informed me that my mum told them she has concerns about my son and proceeded to check my cupboards and fridge for food and my son's bedroom before asking questions about his home education provision (which was recently assessed by the local authority and declared to be of a very good standard).
To say I am disillusioned is something of an understatement. Am off to do heavy housework to work the frustration out of my system!
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The police have just been round here to tell me they're not even going to arrest him, let alone charge him, thanks to the wonderful alibis provided by my mum and sister. They then informed me that my mum told them she has concerns about my son and proceeded to check my cupboards and fridge for food and my son's bedroom before asking questions about his home education provision (which was recently assessed by the local authority and declared to be of a very good standard).
To say I am disillusioned is something of an understatement. Am off to do heavy housework to work the frustration out of my system!
Oh (((Twoapenny)))))
I am sorry it turned out like that. You sounds so sweet and compassionate. They didn't rob you of your inherent qualities even though having an NM wreaks havoc with your sense of self. You have inspired me ! xxxooo Ami
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The police have just been round here to tell me they're not even going to arrest him, let alone charge him, thanks to the wonderful alibis provided by my mum and sister. They then informed me that my mum told them she has concerns about my son and proceeded to check my cupboards and fridge for food and my son's bedroom before asking questions about his home education provision (which was recently assessed by the local authority and declared to be of a very good standard).
To say I am disillusioned is something of an understatement. Am off to do heavy housework to work the frustration out of my system!
AND THOSE A$$-H***S ARE IGNORING THE PICTURE OF HIM EXPOSING HIMSELF TO A CHILD?!?!?!?!?!?!? ALL BECAUSE THEY PREFER TO BE LAZY AND BROWN-NOSE THOSE TWO C***S?!?!?!?!?!? DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:
AND THE FACT THAT THE C*** B*TCH IS STARTING UP HER CR*P ABOUT YOU ABUSING AND NEGLECTING YOUR SON?!?!?!?
IT'S TIME TO GO AHEAD WITH TAKING HER TO COURT GIVEN THAT SHE IS CLEARLY NOT GOING TO STOP IN THAT DEPARTMENT!!!!!!
DO I SOUND FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY?!?!?!?!?
H3LL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAMN ALL OF THOSE A$$-H***S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Hi Ami, hugs to you ((((((((((())))))))))) I am getting loads of support from friends and people are being really kind so I feel very lucky at the minute, plus my big sister is amazing and has been a rock throughout, as have all of you! The good thing (I am always looking for the good things!) is that my feelings are in proportion to what is happening. In the past I would often get very extreme reactions to certain events several days, or even weeks after they happened. For example, a friend let me down one time - nothing major, but I was furious and felt hurt, angry, rejected etc etc to the point of wanting to be vile to her (I wasn't, but I really wanted to), and my reaction was out of proportion to what had actually happened. I think I've had so much built up stuff inside me that it was like a little volcano going off over the slightest thing. This has happened today and I am angry about it and feeling fed up, but in proportion to what has happened - I'm getting on with my day as normal, I've phoned friends and they've been supportive (in the past I would lock it up and not talk about it), so I think some good work has been done and I'm reacting in a normal, healthy manner, which is good! So whilst the police have been rubbish I personally have dealt with a huge fear in my life, faced it head on and come out the other side which is a good thing and very positive. Hugs to you and thank you so much for your kind words xxxxx
Bones, it's lucky there is a star key on the keyboard to beep out the swear words!! I know what you mean, I have been really unimpressed with their attitude and the way they've handled the case, I feel the least they should have done is arrest him and give him a good grilling and scare the bejesus out of my mum, but it seems they've just had a little chat and that's that. I will move ahead with court action; there is definitely proof that she's lied repeatedly about other things - the best thing is everyone else who knows them believes me and most have said they're not suprised, so it's really helped me have confidence in my own memories and experiences. But I share your anger and your frustration; the irony of them checking my fridge when they've not even questioned my step-dad is not lost on me! I also have a very untidy house because I spend my day with my boy and not tidying up; my mum, by contrast, is obsessive about housekeeping, yet I know of the two people think better of her because her house is clean and tidy and mine is covered in glitter and bits of straw! Thank you for your support and your anger on my behalf, it's nice to know some people think what he did was wrong!! Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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I am soooo sorry that happened to you.
Perhaps there will come a day when you face that woman in court....
and she's exposed for all the world to see.
Perhaps that same court can provide some relief, for you and your son.
Document, document, document.
(((twopenny)))
Oh geez.
To be fair, the police don't know who to believe.
Your mother's masterful at redirection and smoke screens.
Thank God your big sister's standing beside you. That's so important.
Mo2
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Hugs back to you, Bones! ((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))
Hi MO2 (I feel like calling you Mom!!). I'm trying to take the higher ground on this from a personal perspective and focus on me and my boy, me and my boy, me and my boy. If my mum is exposed that would be a real bonus but I'm trying to look on it as the icing on the cake rather than investing too much time and energy into trying to make it happen, if that makes sense? I don't mean I'm letting it go, but concentrating on myself and my boy and only working on the court stuff when I have time to. I don't know if this is the right way to go about it but it feels right at the minute. The upside is that no-one around here (I live very near my parents) believes my mum or swallows the nonsense she talks; people laugh at her behind her back and call her a nutter. I've had lots of messages from friends over the last couple of days all on my side and I know for a fact the only people who 'believe' my step-dad are those who have a vested interest (ie financial) and stand to lose out if they speak up. So personally it has been a triumph, but I must say I feel the system is massively stacked in favour of the abusers which I find astonishing - but you live and learn!
Thanks to all for your support, as always xxxxx
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Hi Twoapenny,
I am so so sorry for what you have been through, and hope someday you can set the record straight. You might remember me from NGE that I had a retarded brother and my NM would do anything not to deal with him or me, she left us in the hands of her elderly mother. When my grandmother was 75 years old she fell carrying my brother (he never walked or talked) and broke her hip, I just can't even imagine leaving the care of this child in an older persons hands and just getting herself out the door to work.........her priorities came first which was herself.
Please know you have our support and validation.........
Hugs,
Bettyanne
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((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Twoapenny, Maybe I'm idealistic, but when I blow the whistle on wrongdoing (as you did), I always tell myself, "Even if nothing comes of this, if somebody in the future reports this person again, maybe they (the authorities) will take THAT person more seriously because there has been a report before." You know, the old "where there's smoke there's fire" logic. Not much comfort, I know, but I still think you did the right thing. I know it's taken a lot out of you and that it doesn't probably feel worth it at times, but I think in the long run it is probably worth it.
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What HoP said..
and Bettyanne, that is heartbreaking. I am so sad to think of an elderly woman trying to care for a disabled boy on her own.
love,
Hops
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Thanks, Bones, hugs back to you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
BettyAnne, of course I remember you and that level of selfishness is very typical of N's, I feel. Some people are just not cut out to be parents and I think it's so hard to deal with being the child of one of those kinds of people. Thanks for your thoughts and for sharing ((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))
Hi HoP and Hops,
I agree entirely with you both on that one, at least it is on record and, possibly more importantly, everyone in the local area knows about it now so people can protect their own children if necessary. I've often wondered about two other girls he used to have a lot of contact with and feel that, at least with people knowing about it now, there's a chance they might hear about him being reported and that might make them want to contact the police themselves. I also had an email from a friend who knows a lady who waited thirty years to get justice! Apparently no-one ever believed her and she just got on with her life - but thirty years down the line someone else reported him and he got nine years. I think the fact that I've gone public will have really shaken him up as well; he never thought I'd do it. All in all I'm in a good place right now. Hugs to both of you ((((((((((((()))))))))))))))
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Thanks, Bones, hugs back to you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
BettyAnne, of course I remember you and that level of selfishness is very typical of N's, I feel. Some people are just not cut out to be parents and I think it's so hard to deal with being the child of one of those kinds of people. Thanks for your thoughts and for sharing ((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))
Hi HoP and Hops,
I agree entirely with you both on that one, at least it is on record and, possibly more importantly, everyone in the local area knows about it now so people can protect their own children if necessary. I've often wondered about two other girls he used to have a lot of contact with and feel that, at least with people knowing about it now, there's a chance they might hear about him being reported and that might make them want to contact the police themselves. I also had an email from a friend who knows a lady who waited thirty years to get justice! Apparently no-one ever believed her and she just got on with her life - but thirty years down the line someone else reported him and he got nine years. I think the fact that I've gone public will have really shaken him up as well; he never thought I'd do it. All in all I'm in a good place right now. Hugs to both of you ((((((((((((()))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))
For what it's worth....
When I called the police on the b*st*rd for assaulting me, and all the neighbors saw him taken out in handcuffs, that's when the other kids in the neighborhood came forward and told their parents about him sexually assaulting them! NWomb-Donor STILL tried to insist that I was mentally ill and lying but the other parents were FURIOUS about the fact that their children had also been victimized as well by this b*st*rd and probably saw right through the NWomb-Donor's lies and manipulations. I learned that one of the other parents threatened to kill the b*st*rd if he ever set foot on their property again. At least some justice happened there if nothing else.
Bones
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Hi Bones,
I do think people power is often more effective than anything else that can happen! Was he prosecuted for what he did to you? I live in quite a small community where everyone knows everyone else. There are three or four generations of the same families living near each other and word gets around so fast that there's not likely to be anyone around here that hasn't heard now. Everyone I've told personally has told me they weren't suprised and several of my friends from childhood admitted they didn't like coming round the house because of the way he looked at them and his generally 'creepy' air.
I hope things are better for you now (((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))) I'd kill anyone that touched my boy, I just can't imagine dismissing it as a figment of his imagination. I don't understand how a mum can do that?
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Hi Bones,
I do think people power is often more effective than anything else that can happen! Was he prosecuted for what he did to you? I live in quite a small community where everyone knows everyone else. There are three or four generations of the same families living near each other and word gets around so fast that there's not likely to be anyone around here that hasn't heard now. Everyone I've told personally has told me they weren't suprised and several of my friends from childhood admitted they didn't like coming round the house because of the way he looked at them and his generally 'creepy' air.
I hope things are better for you now (((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))) I'd kill anyone that touched my boy, I just can't imagine dismissing it as a figment of his imagination. I don't understand how a mum can do that?
Unfortunately, it was placed on a "stat docket" because the NWomb-Donor had convinced the prosecutor that I was "too mentally ill to know what I was doing"! The prosecutor NEVER made ANY effort to speak to me before he did this!!! The ONLY reason that NWomb-Donor could or would do that to her own children is because she didn't want to lose the opportunity of having his !@# in her !@#!!!!!! All she focused on was her own sexual gratification at ALL costs!!!!! (She also liked to play all kinds of incestuous games! SICK) In the end, by the time she was on her deathbed, she had NOTHING!!! Her Golden Child cursed her and walked out on her, NEVER to be seen again and I LOATHED the sight of her! I took care of things, out of duty, so I have a clear conscience about that. I drew the line for the last time when I discovered that she and her NSister had LIED TO ME about the cemetery arrangements! The cemetery tried to hit me up for money to have her name on the grave marker and I FLAT OUT REFUSED!!!!! (They had LIED TO ME FOR YEARS about EVERYTHING being pre-paid, including the grave marker!) The representative at the cemetery was SHOCKED :shock: that I DARED SAY NO to paying for the grave marker! She tried to stammer at me: "But, she's your mother!" My response: "And your point being.....?" She couldn't answer that and I got up and walked out. I had HAD ENOUGH!!!!
Today, I have my good days and my bad days.....
(((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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((((((((Bones)))))))))) I'm so sorry for what you went through.
You have come so very very very far.
Bravo to you, whole woman.
love,
Hops
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((((((((Bones)))))))))) I'm so sorry for what you went through.
You have come so very very very far.
Bravo to you, whole woman.
love,
Hops
Thanks, ((((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Hi all,
Just to update you, I found out yesterday that the police have referred me to education welfare and social services and I am now being investigated again. Details are sketchy but from what I can gather so far their concerns are that my son was wearing his pyjamas when the police officer feels he should have been dressed and we were out when she called at the house unannounced. According to her, as home educators we should be forced to spend the day indoors and should not be allowed to venture outside the property during daylight hours. Obviously no action at all has been taken against my parents so both are free to carry on molesting children for the foreseeable future.
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I am sorry ((Twoapenny)))) for the system and the people in it as well as your horrible family! You managed to hold on to your decency and that is a wonderful thing . You still have humanity and kindness after ALL you have been through! xxxoo Ami
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
I HATE bureaucrats and child molesters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
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OMG, twopenny.
Another investigation?
OF YOU?!?!
This is just crazy.
All I can say is.....
it must be easier for the system to spend their time prosecuting/investigating victims, rather than criminals.
This just makes no sense at all.... ::shaking head::
..... but you sound pretty steady.
Remember to remain calm.
God knows what the investigator will do to you, if you're sarcastic or snippy.
So wrong....
((((twopenny)))
Mo2
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Hi all,
Thanks for your responses. It seems the waters are calm again (for now). Spoke to the education welfare man who was very reasonable on the phone and he agreed that the concerns raised by the police officer are of no concern to them; we are free to leave our home whenever we want to and my son is entitled to wear whatever he chooses in the privacy of his own home. It seems social services are happy that ed welfare are happy so for the time being nothing further appears to be happening (she says, crossing fingers). What I am doing is writing a strong letter of complaint about the police and insisting that they do the investigation of my parents properly; simply asking my mum if it's true is not enough. I want my step-father arrested, cautioned, grillled and that picture of him with his **** out waved under his nose. My mum is the one pulling the strings; away from her he'll have to stand on his own two feet and my guess is he'll crumble pretty quickly. I don't mind if they aren't able to prove anything but I'm damned if I'm going to sit back and let them not bother about this. I am quietly working away on a civil case against them and a suprising amount of evidence is coming through fairly quickly. It seems my mum's desire to bad mouth me may be her downfall; there are so many records appearing with accusations in them that she's contradicting herself and I've proof that a number of claims she's made are false (and that she knew them to be false at the time). Plus by cross referencing them I can show how claims she's made during certain periods are contradicted by doctor's reports etc at the same time.
The thing I am so happy about is that my lovely little boy doesn't have a clue any of this has gone on and is quite content to sit making paper chains and colouring in Christmas cards :) I will keep fighting for his sake and the sake of other children that need the protection that we never got.
Thanks to all of you again. Hugs hugs hugs!!
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((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Bones, I'm so sorry, I was just reading through the thread and I'd missed your post about your mum getting the case against her boyfriend dropped. I don't blame you for refusing to pay for the grave marker, I think you were very charitable to be involved in her funeral at all. I cannot, cannot, cannot get my head around someone protecting a man like that when their own children are at risk.
Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Did not see your post (((Bonesie)))). My Goodness ,you are a winner for all you went through and are a decent and big hearted person !
xxxooo Ami
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Bones, I'm so sorry, I was just reading through the thread and I'd missed your post about your mum getting the case against her boyfriend dropped. I don't blame you for refusing to pay for the grave marker, I think you were very charitable to be involved in her funeral at all. I cannot, cannot, cannot get my head around someone protecting a man like that when their own children are at risk.
Hugs to you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks, ((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Yes, it's hard to wrap one's head around the concept that someone, who was supposed to be a MOTHER, was so self-centered and self-absorbed that she simply didn't give a damn about putting her own flesh and blood in harm's way!
Bones
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Did not see your post (((Bonesie)))). My Goodness ,you are a winner for all you went through and are a decent and big hearted person !
xxxooo Ami
Thanks, (((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Dear Everybody,
I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while, I've been trying to get my head straight about a few things and I needed to keep away from the situation while I did that, and give myself some space and perspective on it all.
I have spent the last few days gathering up paperwork to give to a solicitor I have found in order to see how I can proceed with civil cases against several people involved in this whole sorry mess over time - some personally, some professionally. As part of that, I printed off this thread as it contained a mass of information and gives some clear examples of, not only my thoughts and feelings as certain things were happening, but also validation from so many of you that I was not being hysterical, unreasonable or any of the other things I have been accused of over time.
What hit me like a wall as I was reading through the entire thing again (44 pages in total!) was how amazing supportive you have all been to me. Reading through it, I can see how it was your strength and support, and your willingness to share your own very difficult experiences, that got me through what has been a horrible time in my life and pushed me through to the other side.
I feel tired - but quietly strong, determined and optimistic that I can get some sort of satisfaction via civil cases. The more I am gathering together evidence and putting things down on paper, the more I can see how brilliantly my mum brainwashed me into thinking the abnormal was usual and the destructive was either for my own good or my own fault. Coming through the other side of this has been down to all of you, who have been so kind, loving and charitable despite the fact you each have your own problems to deal with and your own issues to work through.
So I want to say a huge thank you to each and every one of you for the help and support you have given me over the last few months. I truly could not have got through this without you and feel very humble to have been guided through a life changing experience by people that I've never met, but who have given me their time and their kind words without placing any kind of demand on me or giving any kind of remonstration or guilt trip (as most of my family would!). I have only rarely experienced kindness like this and I cannot tell you how big a difference it has made to me.
So thank you, thank you, thank you. I hope I will be able to post fairly soon with some positive news about legal action, and also that there might be something I learn from this that will help someone else in the future. Hopefully 2010 will be a healthier, happier year for all of us, and I hope everyone receives back some of the kindness they have shown to me.
Sending love, hugs and magical weight loss thoughts to get rid of all the Christmas excess ;)
Thinking of everybody,
Twoapenny xxxxxxxxx ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))00
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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twopenny:
I hope the civil action will bring you some measure of peace, no matter the outcome.
Gathering all evidence should prove very empowering for you, IMO.
As for your mother defending that kind of suit, at best she'll have face her actions and be held accountable.
At worst, she'll likely think twice before filing future false complaints against you.
Regarding your son.......
It warmed my heart to read he's blissfully unaware of this struggle.
You're a good mama, ((twopenny))
God bless and God speed.
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Hi Bones and Mo2,
Thanks to both of you. I have started writing it all up and cross referencing paperword as well as asking other people to provide their own accounts and information where appropriate. Seeing it all go down in black and white is like being hit with a sledgehammer. Suddenly I'm not questioning myself or doubting my memory or wondering whether I'm being over the top or over sensitive. I'm seeing it for the deceitful, incidious abuse that it is and it really is terrifying. Getting it down on paper is helping, though, and I'm hoping this is the start of better things.
Love to you both xx
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Hi Bones and Mo2,
Thanks to both of you. I have started writing it all up and cross referencing paperword as well as asking other people to provide their own accounts and information where appropriate. Seeing it all go down in black and white is like being hit with a sledgehammer. Suddenly I'm not questioning myself or doubting my memory or wondering whether I'm being over the top or over sensitive. I'm seeing it for the deceitful, incidious abuse that it is and it really is terrifying. Getting it down on paper is helping, though, and I'm hoping this is the start of better things.
Love to you both xx
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Hi Everybody,
Just a quick update - I am plugging my way through old medical records and not only is there quite a bit of proof that the things my mum has accused me of aren't true, some of the doctor's/psychs I have seen over the years have written some really nice things about me and commented on my being a good mum and working hard to overcome my problems. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel :)
Twoapenny xx
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((((((Twoapenny))))) x o x o Ami
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Hi Everybody,
Just a quick update - I am plugging my way through old medical records and not only is there quite a bit of proof that the things my mum has accused me of aren't true, some of the doctor's/psychs I have seen over the years have written some really nice things about me and commented on my being a good mum and working hard to overcome my problems. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel :)
Twoapenny xx
((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Thanks Ami, thanks Bonesie! Hugs to both of you ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((xxxxx))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Hi all,
Just another update - got the police records through and they have stated, in writing, that they felt my allegations were malicious and that's why they haven't investigated them. They've also recorded that they want social services doing unnanounced spot checks and are not happy that social services have refused (ss sent the paperwork back stating that the police officer's concerns are not concerns and that they won't open a file on it). How they are claiming that the assaults I was talking about in therapy nine years ago (backed up by therapist's notes on that one) and a photograph are malicious has not been explained in the file. Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt!
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Twoapen: You have also helped me on this board countless times and I'm so glad you are here for me. You definitely have your hands full with this and I wish you the utmost steadfastness in resolving this horrific situation. You are hardworking and as they say, "cream rises to the top."
Remember this:
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Gandhi
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Hi all,
Just another update - got the police records through and they have stated, in writing, that they felt my allegations were malicious and that's why they haven't investigated them. They've also recorded that they want social services doing unnanounced spot checks and are not happy that social services have refused (ss sent the paperwork back stating that the police officer's concerns are not concerns and that they won't open a file on it). How they are claiming that the assaults I was talking about in therapy nine years ago (backed up by therapist's notes on that one) and a photograph are malicious has not been explained in the file. Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt!
OMG!!!!
Those !@#$ with badges are a bunch of @#$%%^!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bones
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Twoapenny.... First of all, your mom is a criminal!! In essence this is child abuse directed by your mother to your son. She is trying to get at you, but harming her grandson!!! She can't touch him physically, but is just as brutal.
Second, you really have your head together Twoapenny... protecting your son from this, and articulating this situation so matter of factly to the board for support. You're the best mom, this is clearly all for your son. People with mental issues do not clearly state things the way you have here in the name of a dependant.
Go Twoapenny!! Keep the papertrail going, someones got to foigure out what a maniac your mom is!
Swimmer
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Hi Bear, thank you so much for your kind words, it really means a lot, and I love that quote from Ghandi! Have put it up on the wall :)
Bones, my reaction was pretty much the same as yours. I have therapy notes going back nine years that prove these aren't malicious allegations so I will be seeing a solicitor about the whole situation, I feel like I've been stitched up and I'm not putting up with it any more. Thanks for your thoughts ((((((())))))
Hey Swimmer, thanks for that, the papertrail is growing! There is more and more evidence against my mum and more and more in my favour; friends have been pointing stuff out to me that's odd about my mum which I hadn't noticed because I'm so used to her odd behaviour! So the papertrail is getting bigger :) Thanks for your kind words xx
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I could ditto what everyone's said. And, theres a few and alsos I'd like to share, (BTW UK here too, thought I recognised the type of story!)
Most people are ignorant of Nism and there is an astonishing capacity that N.s have to project thier influence into the hereafter. Furthermore, there is a type of blindness to abuse by an N. and specailly when it is subtle? This is a disttressing reality. Reading this has confirmed all this for me, it was just becoming clear. It really feels at times like theres a conspiracy of collusion and blindness.
Did you actually physically vomit when you saw the picture? It kind of makes me think, well thats a quite appropriate demonstration by your body, as in 'the self becomes inconsolable'. .......... and I would add - and rightly so. I believe the 'inconsolability is surely what leads us to keep ourselves free and know how to live better than what we were given, not succumbing to the destiny projected, isnt this 'the defiant power of the human spirit'.
But well done for your survival, persistence, and looking after your child with all the difficulties. I was a single parent too.
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Hi Bear, thank you so much for your kind words, it really means a lot, and I love that quote from Ghandi! Have put it up on the wall :)
Bones, my reaction was pretty much the same as yours. I have therapy notes going back nine years that prove these aren't malicious allegations so I will be seeing a solicitor about the whole situation, I feel like I've been stitched up and I'm not putting up with it any more. Thanks for your thoughts ((((((())))))
Hey Swimmer, thanks for that, the papertrail is growing! There is more and more evidence against my mum and more and more in my favour; friends have been pointing stuff out to me that's odd about my mum which I hadn't noticed because I'm so used to her odd behaviour! So the papertrail is getting bigger :) Thanks for your kind words xx
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Hi River,
Yes, I was physically sick when I looked at the picture, I'm sick anytime I try to 'deal' with the abuse in some way. I can talk about it in very general terms okay and some of the more 'minor' things I can discuss with my T and that's alright, but any time I try talking about the other stuff I throw up and it's like physically being twelve again. I get so scared I shake, I can hear his footsteps on the landing, it's really like re-living it. But I am absolutely confident that I am on the right track to dealing with it and getting it all out of my system; I am not going to let them win. They've controlled me for thirty six years and I'm not letting them do it any more. I get this really strong urge to go to their house and do that really childish thing, you know when you stick your thumbs in your ears and wiggle your fingers going "nah nah nah nah nah"? I don't do it, of course, but I really want to! I had this dream the other night where the abuse was taking place. Usually I wake up really scared and shaking but this time I was running away so fast he couldn't catch me. As I ran I grew into this giant woman and then I turned on him and was roaring and shaking my fists like some sort of GodZilla creature - like I was too strong for him and the tables were turning? I think this is a good sign, I'm getting stronger on the inside and believing in myself more. Thanks you for your thoughts and kind words.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Hugs to you , Bonesie! You are always so kind and thoughtful and full of empathy and I know you went through awful things yourself as a child. Big love to you xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hi River,
Yes, I was physically sick when I looked at the picture, I'm sick anytime I try to 'deal' with the abuse in some way. I can talk about it in very general terms okay and some of the more 'minor' things I can discuss with my T and that's alright, but any time I try talking about the other stuff I throw up and it's like physically being twelve again. I get so scared I shake, I can hear his footsteps on the landing, it's really like re-living it. But I am absolutely confident that I am on the right track to dealing with it and getting it all out of my system; I am not going to let them win. They've controlled me for thirty six years and I'm not letting them do it any more. I get this really strong urge to go to their house and do that really childish thing, you know when you stick your thumbs in your ears and wiggle your fingers going "nah nah nah nah nah"? I don't do it, of course, but I really want to! I had this dream the other night where the abuse was taking place. Usually I wake up really scared and shaking but this time I was running away so fast he couldn't catch me. As I ran I grew into this giant woman and then I turned on him and was roaring and shaking my fists like some sort of GodZilla creature - like I was too strong for him and the tables were turning? I think this is a good sign, I'm getting stronger on the inside and believing in myself more. Thanks you for your thoughts and kind words.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Hugs to you , Bonesie! You are always so kind and thoughtful and full of empathy and I know you went through awful things yourself as a child. Big love to you xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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((twoapenny))
Just checking in.
Glad to see you're feeling "all stitched up," and strong enough to seek legal remedies.
As Mudpuppy quoted for me, in times of doubt and fear:
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never-- in nothing, great or small, large or petty-- never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."
From Winston Churchill's 10/29/41 speech
Stay strong ((twoapenny))
Mo2