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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by Meh on March 03, 2026, 01:02:12 PM »They use the theatricality of the effort to bypass the reality of their laziness.
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They use the theatricality of the effort to bypass the reality of their laziness.
62
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: facing the world
« Last post by lighter on March 03, 2026, 12:28:23 PM »Qanon.
63
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Friendship Moments: good or bad
« Last post by Hopalong on March 02, 2026, 12:13:52 PM »So. No big drama but did a Zoom with Poet yesterday, which was strange and frustrating. She slept through our appointment time and was still groggy when we reset for an hour later. No problem. She was just out of it. It would have been better to reschedule but she didn't want to. I was hopeful (stupidly) because she had written that she "would address" the conflict we'd had. So when I gently asked if she wanted to talk about it, she said "I do not", vehemently. So we talked about her poetry, etc. She avoided eye contact and turned away a lot.
I think the old connection is broken, likely for good. At one point she started telling me "you feel...you think...." and nearly working herself up again. I interrupted her saying "I'm not feeling that! I'm not thinking that!" and she finally gave up. But appeared to resent me stopping her momentum. I sensed it was a buildup to another fury-burst so I'm glad I spoke up.
Not grieving about it now. I understand I can't fix it and am focusing on present friendships here and the oncoming joys of spring. She's going to another state in May to stay in a "lovely inn" near another friend who lives in the Smokies. I'm glad for her. She might be here in July with her daughter and I might see her then.
She kept wanting to talk about the poetry group and justifying all her reasons for it being an "unpleasant experience" for her. She didn't criticize the female leader but made digs about a male poet there that the whole group seems to admire a lot. I'm indifferent about him, he's rarely there. I just don't care about all that because I'm having an autonomous experience with the group that's positive. It's strange but I'm beginning to think she's just jealous of another poet who's popular.
I even suggested to her that there's nothing wrong with resigning from a writing group. She won't quite, but says she won't be attending the next meeting. Jesus. I wish she'd shit or get off the pot.
hugs
Hops
I think the old connection is broken, likely for good. At one point she started telling me "you feel...you think...." and nearly working herself up again. I interrupted her saying "I'm not feeling that! I'm not thinking that!" and she finally gave up. But appeared to resent me stopping her momentum. I sensed it was a buildup to another fury-burst so I'm glad I spoke up.
Not grieving about it now. I understand I can't fix it and am focusing on present friendships here and the oncoming joys of spring. She's going to another state in May to stay in a "lovely inn" near another friend who lives in the Smokies. I'm glad for her. She might be here in July with her daughter and I might see her then.
She kept wanting to talk about the poetry group and justifying all her reasons for it being an "unpleasant experience" for her. She didn't criticize the female leader but made digs about a male poet there that the whole group seems to admire a lot. I'm indifferent about him, he's rarely there. I just don't care about all that because I'm having an autonomous experience with the group that's positive. It's strange but I'm beginning to think she's just jealous of another poet who's popular.
I even suggested to her that there's nothing wrong with resigning from a writing group. She won't quite, but says she won't be attending the next meeting. Jesus. I wish she'd shit or get off the pot.
hugs
Hops
64
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: facing the world
« Last post by Hopalong on March 01, 2026, 11:44:56 PM »Tell us more?
Where's that scream coming from?
Where's a safe place to let it rip?
hugs,
Hops
Where's that scream coming from?
Where's a safe place to let it rip?
hugs,
Hops
65
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by Hopalong on February 27, 2026, 10:43:51 AM »Meh, that is an amazing quotation.
Hit home for me because I just recommended "gray rocking" to a friend who sees her rich, powerful, domineering Nmother once a month, to much distress.
I'd like to share this with her. Would it be a pain to send me the source?
Since so many people feel (or believe) they are TRAPPED with Ns, especially if they're family....it hits me that if gray-rocking does all this describes (and I can feel how it does when I spent 10 years living with Nmom) -- then the only big solution is total NC (No Contact).
So, ideally, all Ns would be promptly and completely expunged from our lives. I could not do that, so I grayed myself into a shadow, or at least into depression. Once she was gone, I returned to my own life, slowly. Then there was Daughter, also N I believe, atop bipolar and all her other troubles.
So I feel much compassion for those who can't avoid contact with an N. On some level it remains a choice, but in some circumstances, with huge life impact, good or ill.
I figure it's a very personal calculation, based on very personal circumstances. And if gray-rock helps one get through situation X or Y, go for it. Frequency of contact is probably the other factor in the sanity equation. Daily calls and regular physical visits....all that can be modified. I could manage monthly gray-rocking, I think.
I was visiting a writer friend in her apt in grad school once and she showed me something I'd never learned. Somebody knocked at her door and she didn't answer -- we were having a great conversation. Later, her phone rang and she ignored it.
What a gift.
hugs
Hops
Hit home for me because I just recommended "gray rocking" to a friend who sees her rich, powerful, domineering Nmother once a month, to much distress.
I'd like to share this with her. Would it be a pain to send me the source?
Since so many people feel (or believe) they are TRAPPED with Ns, especially if they're family....it hits me that if gray-rocking does all this describes (and I can feel how it does when I spent 10 years living with Nmom) -- then the only big solution is total NC (No Contact).
So, ideally, all Ns would be promptly and completely expunged from our lives. I could not do that, so I grayed myself into a shadow, or at least into depression. Once she was gone, I returned to my own life, slowly. Then there was Daughter, also N I believe, atop bipolar and all her other troubles.
So I feel much compassion for those who can't avoid contact with an N. On some level it remains a choice, but in some circumstances, with huge life impact, good or ill.
I figure it's a very personal calculation, based on very personal circumstances. And if gray-rock helps one get through situation X or Y, go for it. Frequency of contact is probably the other factor in the sanity equation. Daily calls and regular physical visits....all that can be modified. I could manage monthly gray-rocking, I think.
I was visiting a writer friend in her apt in grad school once and she showed me something I'd never learned. Somebody knocked at her door and she didn't answer -- we were having a great conversation. Later, her phone rang and she ignored it.
What a gift.
hugs
Hops
66
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Last post by Hopalong on February 27, 2026, 10:33:47 AM »Yes, you CAN, Lighter.
But I'm very sorry there's still a strong N in your life.
I think text messages are a new way to drive ourselves crazy. The device isolates, no matter how busy it gets. Maybe detaching from that method with this person would be a good idea? Texts go STRAIGHT into our ids. They're like rabbit punches to me. I don't give immediate access to many people, and spread the word "I'm not a good texter."
I'm glad you can visualize so powerfully, both the cliff edge and the peace of the cave. You can hurt yourself and heal yourself. It's remarkable.
And you've absolutely made my day with the word "everdam." May I borrow it?
hugs
Hops
But I'm very sorry there's still a strong N in your life.
I think text messages are a new way to drive ourselves crazy. The device isolates, no matter how busy it gets. Maybe detaching from that method with this person would be a good idea? Texts go STRAIGHT into our ids. They're like rabbit punches to me. I don't give immediate access to many people, and spread the word "I'm not a good texter."
I'm glad you can visualize so powerfully, both the cliff edge and the peace of the cave. You can hurt yourself and heal yourself. It's remarkable.
And you've absolutely made my day with the word "everdam." May I borrow it?
hugs
Hops
67
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by lighter on February 27, 2026, 08:19:38 AM »Whew boy, Meh.
The question becomes....
To be, or not to be, dependent on an explosive N.....esp with children.
I read it....saw myself in the head of a mother, protecting child.....what's modeled for the children?
Devastating. Untenable.
THEN I read it from the POV of a child.....growing up gray rocking....
more devastating. Zero choice.
The brain does forget, IME.
Lighter
The question becomes....
To be, or not to be, dependent on an explosive N.....esp with children.
I read it....saw myself in the head of a mother, protecting child.....what's modeled for the children?
Devastating. Untenable.
THEN I read it from the POV of a child.....growing up gray rocking....
more devastating. Zero choice.
The brain does forget, IME.
Lighter
68
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by Meh on February 26, 2026, 12:51:03 PM »"Grey Rock requires you to self-induce a state of dissociation. You are essentially asking your vibrant, emotional, creative self to go into a coma so that the narcissist doesn't have anything to "snack" on."
"When you Grey Rock, you aren't just ghosting the narcissist; you are often ghosting yourself. To be "boring" to them, you have to suppress your joy, your opinions, and your spontaneous reactions. If you do this for days or weeks, your brain forgets how to turn those lights back on. That "depression" and "lack of natural activity" you're feeling? That’s your nervous system staying in Functional Freeze."
"Grey Rock is often sold as a way to "win." In reality, it’s a way to sustain the status quo.
It doesn’t stop the person from being a narcissist; it just changes the flavor of the conflict.
Instead of an explosive argument, you get the "banging around" for 40 minutes and the "medical sagas." They are still taking up all the oxygen in the room; you’re just holding your breath to make it last longer."
"By staying "grey," you are essentially paying a tax on your soul. You’ve realized that the "cost" of avoiding a blow-up is the slow erosion of your personality."
"Most advice focuses on "how to handle the narcissist" rather than "how to save the victim's spirit." It’s easier to tell someone to "be a rock" than to address the devastating reality that living with a narcissist is a trauma-inducing environment."
69
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by Meh on February 26, 2026, 12:08:54 PM »(((Meh)))) --
How much can you control how often you have to be in their actual presence?
I know it might be realistically complex for various real-reasons... but wonder how much you HAVE to see them, in the present and the flesh?
They're so toxic to you. But I envision you FREE.
I dunno how much distance you can manage, but hope you can manage more.
hugs
Hops
yes, I know... the proximity is not healthy for me i know
70
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Anything again
« Last post by Meh on February 26, 2026, 12:07:41 PM »"For a narcissist, a doctor’s appointment is like a premiere of a movie where they are the star, the director, and the victim all at once. They want your full emotional labor to validate their "experience."